The diving saga...

[Robbored]

We've all seen blatant dives at all levels of football and it forces  the referee into having to decide on whether its genuine or a dive and open to dogs abuse should they get it wrong.

The introduction of yellow cards has made little difference and it still goes on all over the world.

So........why not simply do away with the penalty spot and therefore no penalty kick. Any infringement inside the box is taken from wherever it takes place. The same rules apply as they do all over pitch and we could then see the defenders all lining up on their own goal line.

I think I'll fire off an email to FIFA..............

 

 

[Lanterne Rouge]

Interesting suggestion. One flaw is though that you would see an increase in players being hacked down/handballs along the by-line as teams would reason it`s unlikely that a goal would result from a free kick in that position. If a winger skins his man and cuts in along the line aiming to get a ball in to the centre he would inevitably be brought down I think.

[Robbored]

5 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said:

Interesting suggestion. One flaw is though that you would see an increase in players being hacked down/handballs along the by-line as teams would reason it`s unlikely that a goal would result from a free kick in that position. If a winger skins his man and cuts in along the line aiming to get a ball in to the centre he would inevitably be brought down I think.

Its only an idea and not that well thought out but....a handball in the box could be the exception to awarding a penalty kick.

[elhombrecito]

So every time somebody is about to shoot they'd simply get taken out by a defender. Defence gets to regroup and put 11 men behind the ball.

[Tinmans Love Child]

IMO the only way you will stop diving is when managers and players decide to change the culture from within.  I think it’s too widely accepted at the top level and excused by the ‘there was contact’ comments from ex player pundits.  It’s a contact sport, of course there is contact during a tackle!

The stupid thing is that players and managers and fans moan that refs don’t get the decisions right, but don’t call out their own players who try to con ref’s and make their job much more difficult!  

[Clevedon Red]

Sin bins might help?

[joe jordans teeth]

16 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

IMO the only way you will stop diving is when managers and players decide to change the culture from within.  I think it’s too widely accepted at the top level and excused by the ‘there was contact’ comments from ex player pundits.  It’s a contact sport, of course there is contact during a tackle!

The stupid thing is that players and managers and fans moan that refs don’t get the decisions right, but don’t call out their own players who try to con ref’s and make their job much more difficult!  

Spot on but managers never will when winning is the most important thing,as for pundits I have heard them say that Dele Ali might never get the going down easy bit or diving in English terms out of his game because it’s natural to him,what total nonsense.Forgot to add the pundits also saying the rest of Europe are doing it as well So it’s fair game by all accounts 

[Midlands Robin]

For certain situations I'd allow the Ref to award a goal in the same way Refs can award a penalty try in Rugby.

The best example of how unfair a penalty can be is the quarter final between Ghana and Uruguay in 2010. Suarez deliberately hand balled to prevent a goal and what would have been the winner for Ghana. Ghana's reward for this was to have a penalty against the keeper which unfortunately hit the crossbar. My point is, the keeper had already been beaten and only Suarez's cheating prevented the goal. Why should the attacking side be made to beat the keeper again? Ghana should have been awarded the goal they were denied.

As for diving today, retrospective punishments up to and including changing the result of the match is the only way to stamp it out. Until the result of the game hinges on it going the other way, players still won't fear a short suspension. The reward is too great in the long run.

[Sweeneys Penalties]

3 hours ago, Robbored said:

We've all seen blatant dives at all levels of football and it forces  the referee into having to decide on whether its genuine or a dive and open to dogs abuse should they get it wrong.

The introduction of yellow cards has made little difference and it still goes on all over the world.

So........why not simply do away with the penalty spot and therefore no penalty kick. Any infringement inside the box is taken from wherever it takes place. The same rules apply as they do all over pitch and we could then see the defenders all lining up on their own goal line.

I think I'll fire off an email to FIFA..............

 

 

I'm warming to that idea. Mind you, I must be going soft in my old age. A woman with absolutely no interest in the game asked with in all sincerity why we didn't use backboards.... and I didn't have an "oven ready" reply

[MarcusX]

3 hours ago, Robbored said:

Its only an idea and not that well thought out but....a handball in the box could be the exception to awarding a penalty kick.

Good job handball decisions are always clear cut and never contentious

[MarcusX]

2 hours ago, Midlands Robin said:

For certain situations I'd allow the Ref to award a goal in the same way Refs can award a penalty try in Rugby.

The best example of how unfair a penalty can be is the quarter final between Ghana and Uruguay in 2010. Suarez deliberately hand balled to prevent a goal and what would have been the winner for Ghana. Ghana's reward for this was to have a penalty against the keeper which unfortunately hit the crossbar. My point is, the keeper had already been beaten and only Suarez's cheating prevented the goal. Why should the attacking side be made to beat the keeper again? Ghana should have been awarded the goal they were denied.

As for diving today, retrospective punishments up to and including changing the result of the match is the only way to stamp it out. Until the result of the game hinges on it going the other way, players still won't fear a short suspension. The reward is too great in the long run.

It’s too contentious, how can you tell from a slow-mo replay how much force is applied and whether it’s enough to unbalance someone running at full pace? It’s a potential idea for an absolutely clear cut, zero contact dive but even then there doesn’t always have to be contact for a foul to occur.

its very rare you see a replay of a close decision and get a unanimous verdict

[Redandwhitescarf]

2 hours ago, Clevedon Red said:

Sin bins might help?

Good idea. First dive Off for 10 mins , then yellow card and Red as norm for subsequent offences. Means your team have to play with 10 men for 10 mins and no substitutions allowed during that 10 mins .

[Robbored]

22 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Good job handball decisions are always clear cut and never contentious

Point being, players don't dive to win a handball.

[Clevedon Red]

48 minutes ago, Redandwhitescarf said:

Good idea. First dive Off for 10 mins , then yellow card and Red as norm for subsequent offences. Means your team have to play with 10 men for 10 mins and no substitutions allowed during that 10 mins .

Already being trialled will be in the league in a few years I reckon.

[Lanterne Rouge]

51 minutes ago, Redandwhitescarf said:

Good idea. First dive Off for 10 mins , then yellow card and Red as norm for subsequent offences. Means your team have to play with 10 men for 10 mins and no substitutions allowed during that 10 mins .

 

3 minutes ago, Clevedon Red said:

Already being trialled will be in the league in a few years I reckon.

Keepers will have to watch their step then. What would happen, an outfield player would go in goal for that ten minutes I guess.

[ballwinningcentrehalf]

4 hours ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

IMO the only way you will stop diving is when managers and players decide to change the culture from within.

Respectfully, I disagree completely.

Winning is everything, and unfortunately the game has been allowed to develop by the authorities so that diving, cheating and extreme gamesmanship are often rewarded more than they are punished. It’s no coincidence that the very best teams are often also the best at the ‘dark arts’.

The only way things will change is if the governing bodies take a firmer stance and teams start learning that these tactics will be punished with retrospective bans or during matches using video technology.

The point about ‘there was contact’, is an interesting one, but also one largely created by those in charge. From a marketing point of view they want the very best players protected, so the rules have definitely evolved over the years to look after skilful footballers by punishing minor contact and infringement. I doubt that is something they would have any interest in changing. 

[CotswoldRed]

Just prevent players from talking to or approaching the ref and he'll be able to referee the game without undue intimidation and with a clear head.

Making decisions on diving and penalties would be a whole lot easier if you know you won't have 10 players in your face whatever decision you make.  

 

[Tinmans Love Child]

31 minutes ago, ballwinningcentrehalf said:

Respectfully, I disagree completely.

Winning is everything, and unfortunately the game has been allowed to develop by the authorities so that diving, cheating and extreme gamesmanship are often rewarded more than they are punished. It’s no coincidence that the very best teams are often also the best at the ‘dark arts’.

The only way things will change is if the governing bodies take a firmer stance and teams start learning that these tactics will be punished with retrospective bans or during matches using video technology.

The point about ‘there was contact’, is an interesting one, but also one largely created by those in charge. From a marketing point of view they want the very best players protected, so the rules have definitely evolved over the years to look after skilful footballers by punishing minor contact and infringement. I doubt that is something they would have any interest in changing. 

I agree that they don’t want it to change in the current climate, but punishments are impossible as they just say ‘well he touched me’ so prove I dived, and they can’t prove it, so punishments are pointless.  Unless there is zero contact at all, it’s impossible to prove either way that somebody dived or not, so therefore it’s the culture of diving that needs to change

[54-46]

All penalties to be retrospectively reviewed post match

Any player found to have blatantly dived gets a 5 match ban.  If he does it again, 10 matches and so on

[Nibor]

2 hours ago, 54-46 said:

All penalties to be retrospectively reviewed post match

Any player found to have blatantly dived gets a 5 match ban.  If he does it again, 10 matches and so on

I'd say start at 10 matches and include all penalty calls whether given or not.  Tell players you must do everything you can to stay on your feet, let the refs give fouls where players stay up, make the risk of diving never worthwhile.

[Steve Watts]

11 hours ago, Red Right Hand said:

 

Keepers will have to watch their step then. What would happen, an outfield player would go in goal for that ten minutes I guess.

How many keepers get booked for diving?!?

[The Fat Controller]

The current rules require no change, just dilligent enforcement. Gie referees the license to enforce every rule properly and the game would change for the better within one round of matches. It would be carnage for that one round but players would soon learn. 

Bookings for dissent, any form of timewasting, whether its the 1st minute or 81st, kicking the ball away (or carrying it) 1 yard or 80 doesn't matter, obstruction, especially near the goal line. Start with enforcing these sorts of rules and perhaps the players will start to respect the referees and the rules a little more. 

[Denbury Red]

One addition to all of this is to give the Ref’s mic’s, as in Rugby, so the crowd can hear the discussions between players and the Ref, and also Ref and his assistants. 

That would clean up the aggressive behaviour of players ...  and give the crowd more info on what is going on between Ref and his assistants (linesmen and fourth officials). 

[redsquirrel]

people like dele ali should be made stand on the penalty spot and the player he dived against awarded a free kick,anywhere to alis body

[redsquirrel]

either that or made to play with stabilizers to keep him upright.hes boring to watch,shame as there is obviously talent there

[PHILINFRANCE]

15 hours ago, Steve Watts said:

How many keepers get booked for diving?!?

It has happened....

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/watch-leganes-goalkeeper-gets-booked-diving-against-real-madrid

Unfortunately, the Sky video, which shows the dive quite clearly, appears to have been blocked, and I can only find this twitter clip.

[havanatopia]

On 25/03/2018 at 00:25, Robbored said:

We've all seen blatant dives at all levels of football and it forces  the referee into having to decide on whether its genuine or a dive and open to dogs abuse should they get it wrong.

The introduction of yellow cards has made little difference and it still goes on all over the world.

So........why not simply do away with the penalty spot and therefore no penalty kick. Any infringement inside the box is taken from wherever it takes place. The same rules apply as they do all over pitch and we could then see the defenders all lining up on their own goal line.

I think I'll fire off an email to FIFA..............

 

 

I would favour the current system except that a yellow card would cost double inside the box for the amount of points and so a player suspension would happen more quickly. You could also add an automatic sin bin for 5 minutes. 

I think your suggestion might result in more physical injuries to players and possibly on field fights. That said it would be exciting.

Something has to be done.

 

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

Points deduction if a penalty is deemed to be unfairly won? Paltry financial sanctions are useless, but missing out on promotion, Europe or being relegated?

[santibello]

We have to be careful on this, because FA are rubbish, and will use retroactive punishment rubbishly. 

Remember when Wright was screwed for falling over when shoved to the chest/face? FA thought there was 'obvious'  diving, so imagine if they had a point deduction or 5 game ban. 

[MarcusX]

4 hours ago, santibello said:

We have to be careful on this, because FA are rubbish, and will use retroactive punishment rubbishly. 

Remember when Wright was screwed for falling over when shoved to the chest/face? FA thought there was 'obvious'  diving, so imagine if they had a point deduction or 5 game ban. 

He did appear go down easy mind (having been there)... if a bloke does that to him in the pub or the street I guarantee he stays on his feet