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Have any other side recruited as badly as us?


Londoner

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When lj signed didn't he say we needed 3 Windows or something until we had the squad he wanted.....

Hegeler, Djuric, , tomlin (perm), Kent, diony, lucic, giefer, ONEIL, leko, Woodrow, Engvall, elliason, Walsh, moore. Diedhiou/wright/pisano  jury still out.

Look at this and tell me there isn't something wrong with our recruitment....brownhill and baker I give credit for....but blimey that is a huge amount of money that so far seems wasted.

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2 minutes ago, Londoner said:

When lj signed didn't he say we needed 3 Windows or something until we had the squad he wanted.....

Hegeler, Djuric, , tomlin (perm), Kent, diony, lucic, giefer, ONEIL, leko, Woodrow, Engvall, elliason, Walsh, moore. Diedhiou/wright/pisano  jury still out.

Look at this and tell me there isn't something wrong with our recruitment....brownhill and baker I give credit for....but blimey that is a huge amount of money that so far seems wasted.

That list is scary the money wasted is shocking god help us next season,the players we are going to lose will be hard to replace

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I'm not anti Lee Johnson but considering the club big up their transfer dealings that is a lot of cr@p. Sure Steve Cottrell had a better hit rate than that. His loans were often dire but permenants often improved the team. We seem to be more hit and miss but bring out the "They are for the future and are young". Well if Bryan, Flint and Reid go we are going to need better than players for the future. We need players for NOW!!

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9 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

The answer to the question is an obvious yes. I honestly don’t think there is any team that can compete with Sunderland for poor recruitment.

Ha yep Sunderland are awful! Ours is a pretty gruesome list of signings, but no doubt most clubs have some stinkers!!!

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We recruit well in the summer. We are horrible recruiters in January. The young ones like Engvall, Walsh, Moore and Eliasson could probably be decent players if we didn’t baby them. Recruitment usually is a bit of a gamble. When LJ first got here we had a tiny squad so more player bought in a short time frame. That said it is definitely bloated. I personally would rather our bench be filled with our young players rather than players like Hegeler, Kent, and Diony. 

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I'd suggest yes, a large chunk of the division in fact. We arent the only club to fall away after Christmas. Sheff Utd were right up there in second, now they've had a poor second half of the season which suggests poor January recruitment. Likewise Ipswich who had a storming start to the season. Then you've got the underperforming bigger clubs.. Leeds, Brum, Forest..Sunderland with all their parachute money, bottom of the league, struggling Hull. Sheff Wed and Reading both recent playoff finalists, now having rotten seasons after failing to boost their squad effectively. Middlesbrough have the resources to have run away with the division but they are just hanging on to the last playoff spot. 

it doesn't make it acceptable and questions need to be asked, but to suggest we are the only ones and the worst to recruit badly is melodramatic, well off the mark and a clear attempt by the op to push his anti Bristol Sport agenda.

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3 minutes ago, healeyred said:

Engvall  2 Million  Elliasson 2 million  Moore 1.5 Million  total 5.5 million wasted on players that don't play 

 

On the other side of the coin, Flint.. Bought for 300k.. Now worth how much?

Joe Bryan, Bobby Reid.. Nurtured through our academy, would now fetch a huge transfer fee were we to sell this summer.

Huge profit made from Kodjia.

We've been told our transfer policy is to develop young players and sell them at a profit.. We could rake in potentially 15 million plus were we to sell Flinty, Bryan and Reid. Not bad.

Not defending our recruitment policy, just pointing out the positives for balance.

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So we are the worst team in the league at transfers? And we sit 7th in the league? Blimey! LJ must be the best coach in the world!

Can someone explain how Sunderland, Birmingham, Brentford, Reading, Hull, Forest are apparently better than us? (there are many more we could add to that list),

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11 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

It’s the league one champions boys who have dragged us through....

And players we had, Freeman and Ayling for example playing a major role at Championship clubs (injuries aside).

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1 July 2016 Josh Brownhill Preston North End Undisclosed

1 July 2016 CM Gary O'Neil Norwich City Free transfer

5 July 2016 AM Lee Tomlin AFC Bournemouth £3,000,000

7 July 2016 CB Jack Challis Birmingham City Free transfer

7 July 2016 WG Diego De Girolamo Sheffield United Free transfer

7 July 2016 CB Kodi Lyons-Foster Aston Villa Free transfer

7 July 2016  Shabazz Omofe Chelsea Free transfer

9 July 2016 GK Denis Begovic Hoffenheim Free transfer

13 July 2016 CB Hörður Björgvin Magnússon Juventus £2,130,000

14 July 2016 CF Callum O'Dowda Oxford United £1,000,000

27 July 2016 GK Ivan Lučić Bayern Munich Undisclosed

25 August 2016 CB Taylor Moore Lens £1,500,000

27 August 2016 WG Jamie Paterson Nottingham Forest Undisclosed

31 August 2016 CF Gustav EngvallIFK Göteborg £1,360,000

6 September 2016 CB Joel Ekstrand Watford Free transfer

4 January 2017 CF Milan Đurić Cesena £1,500,000

4 January 2017 CM Jens Hegeler Hertha Berlin £255,000

6 January 2017 CB Bailey Wright Preston North End Undisclosed

31 January 2017 CF Matty Taylor Bristol Rovers £400,000

31 January 2017 CF Freddie Hinds Luton Town Undisclosed

31 January 2017 CB Tin Plavotic FC Schalke 04 Undisclosed

28 July 2016 RB Adam Matthews Sunderland End of Season

5 August 2016 CF Tammy Abraham Chelsea End of Season

19 January 2017 GK Fabian Giefer Schalke 04 End of Season

31 January 2017 RM David Cotterill Birmingham City End of Season

1 January 2017Famara DiédhiouAngers£5,300,000

1 July 2017 Eros Pisano Hellas Verona Free

28 July 2017 Nathan Baker Aston Villa Undisclosed

8 August 2017 Niclas Eliasson IFK Norrköping £1,800,000

31 August 2017 Luke Steele Panathinaikos Free

31 August 2017 Tyreeq Bakinson Luton Town Undisclosed

31 August 2017 Rory Holden Derry City Undisclosed

20 September 2017 Antoine Semenyo SGS Free

5 January 2018 Liam Walsh Everton Undisclosed

17 August 2017Cauley WoodrowFulham6 May 2018

28 August 2017 Jonathan Leko West Bromwich Albion 2 January 2018

12 January 2018 Ryan Kent Liverpool 6 May 2018

25 January 2018 Loïs Diony Saint-Étienne 30 June 2018

 

I've copied this lot off Wiki so might not be 100% accurate, but this is a list of players signed since the summer transfer window preceding last season. Not many of that lot paying off at the moment, and the best one is no longer here!

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12 hours ago, Londoner said:

When lj signed didn't he say we needed 3 Windows or something until we had the squad he wanted.....

Hegeler, Djuric, , tomlin (perm), Kent, diony, lucic, giefer, ONEIL, leko, Woodrow, Engvall, elliason, Walsh, moore. Diedhiou/wright/pisano  jury still out.

Look at this and tell me there isn't something wrong with our recruitment....brownhill and baker I give credit for....but blimey that is a huge amount of money that so far seems wasted.

It changed from 3 windows to 3 seasons worth of windows roughly 2 weeks ago.

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42 minutes ago, Wanderingred said:

I'd suggest yes, a large chunk of the division in fact. We arent the only club to fall away after Christmas. Sheff Utd were right up there in second, now they've had a poor second half of the season which suggests poor January recruitment. Likewise Ipswich who had a storming start to the season. Then you've got the underperforming bigger clubs.. Leeds, Brum, Forest..Sunderland with all their parachute money, bottom of the league, struggling Hull. Sheff Wed and Reading both recent playoff finalists, now having rotten seasons after failing to boost their squad effectively. Middlesbrough have the resources to have run away with the division but they are just hanging on to the last playoff spot. 

it doesn't make it acceptable and questions need to be asked, but to suggest we are the only ones and the worst to recruit badly is melodramatic, well off the mark and a clear attempt by the op to push his anti Bristol Sport agenda.

  • Sheff Utd were newly promoted, fact they are still close to the top 6- level on points with us in fact- puts them in credit IMO.
  • Ipswich were always overperforming- in some ways, it's a mystery as to how they are in fact as high as midtable, they don't create a great number of chances, they concede a lot of chances and they are not exactly an amazing possession based side which could paper over some cracks.
  • Reading were majorly overperforming last year. This year is perhaps a swing back down the League and an overcorrection, but a correction nonetheless.
  • Sheff Wed? Decimated- and I mean decimated- by injuries. Made our squad look sprightly and fully fit during the winter. Also made a poor decision IMO to sack Carvahal, which set them back further.

The rest you list I'd say mismanaged in varied ways, this year or in recent years.

Then we have Middlesbrough Set against them, Wolves recruited much better...just buying Championship 'names' as Boro frequently did, is no guarantee. Similar goes for Villa- Wolves did something totally different to this, and yes a superagent in Jorge Mendes played a large part and yes they spent quite a bit of cash- but they spent it far better, with far more ingenuity than Villa and Boro- both of whom had managers and players who were 'names' and 'proven' but actually Wolves are proving the best of all.

Still, I don't see our recruitment as having been that terrible overall- not brilliant, but a lot of -players came in, a major churn in and out over the last season and a half and I think useful depth has been added...question for me, comes the quality v quantity balance- and an ability to get the best out of the new recruits.

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38 minutes ago, healeyred said:

Engvall  2 Million  Elliasson 2 million  Moore 1.5 Million  total 5.5 million wasted on players that don't play 

 

Engvall 1.4 million

Elliasson 1.75 million 

Moore 1.5 million

4.6 million overall.... 

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4 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

Engvall 1.4 million

Elliasson 1.75 million 

Moore 1.5 million

4.6 million overall.... 

This has been debated numerous times

When questioned by GT LJ confirmed it was  £2m or more

Remember there was a discussion on here last week when it was suggested one set of ‘agents’ or person unknown earnt somewhere around or over £500k from the deal alone

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4 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

This has been debated numerous times

When questioned by GT LJ confirmed it was  £2m or more

Remember there was a discussion on here last week when it was suggested one set of ‘agents’ or person unknown earnt somewhere around or over £500k from the deal alone

Just going off transfermarkt to be fair.

Whatever it was it was still too much to spend on a player who hasn't yet played 90 minutes for us

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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:
  • Reading were majorly overperforming last year. This year is perhaps a swing back down the League and an overcorrection, but a correction nonetheless.

I agree with most of your post, but not this part. Is it possible to over perform for 46 games? To go from a spot kick away from the Premier League to relegation fodder suggests horrible mismanagement. Ask a Reading fan and they'll tell you that they spent more this summer than in their entire history and failed to get the players they needed to make an impact. They look set to drop 16 or so places from last season due to poor recruitment. Imagine the absolute fury here if that happened to us.

Not convinced by what you say about Sheff Utd either. Everyone keeps saying that we shouldn't talk about this season being a positive one because “oh we all would have taken it in August” so surely the same applies to them? They were 2nd in November, they've lost far more games than they've won since so they should be judged in the same way we have been - that they've failed to take advantage of their strong start.

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8 minutes ago, Wanderingred said:

I agree with most of your post, but not this part. Is it possible to over perform for 46 games? To go from a spot kick away from the Premier League to relegation fodder suggests horrible mismanagement. Ask a Reading fan and they'll tell you that they spent more this summer than in their entire history and failed to get the players they needed to make an impact. They look set to drop 16 or so places from last season due to poor recruitment. Imagine the absolute fury here if that happened to us.

Not convinced by what you say about Sheff Utd either. Everyone keeps saying that we shouldn't talk about this season being a positive one because “oh we all would have taken it in August” so surely the same applies to them? They were 2nd in November, they've lost far more games than they've won since so they should be judged in the same way we have been - that they've failed to take advantage of their strong start.

I agree on Sheffield United. With Reading, the answer is yes - it is unlikely but it is possible. For an anecdotal example, look at Leicester when they won the league. Nobody would argue the set of players was the best in the league but they performed over their ability for an entire season.

For a more detailed explanation - if you really cared - a book like Fooled By Randomness by Nicholas Nassim Taleb is a brilliant read on the role that luck plays in the outcomes of any particular scenario. To give a simple example, a player who has a 1 in 3 goalscoring ratio is not likely to go through their career with a steady sequence of "no goal, no goal, goal, no goal, no goal, goal and so forth. Instead they are likely to have runs of games where they score consecutively and runs where they do not score at all. Similarly if a team is likely to win half their matches and lose half their matches (and so has a 50% chance of winning any given game) may go through an extended run where that 50% chance bounces in their favour. It's statistically possible for a team to go through a 46 game season where those chances work in their favour.

I hope this makes sense - I'm trying to condense complex statistical stuff into two paragraphs and I'm not in any sense particularly brilliant with statistics.

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2 minutes ago, Wanderingred said:

I agree with most of your post, but not this part. Is it possible to over perform for 46 games? To go from a spot kick away from the Premier League to relegation fodder suggests horrible mismanagement. Ask a Reading fan and they'll tell you that they spent more this summer than in their entire history and failed to get the players they needed to make an impact. They look set to drop 16 or so places from last season due to poor recruitment. Imagine the absolute fury here if that happened to us.

Not convinced by what you say about Sheff Utd either. Everyone keeps saying that we shouldn't talk about this season being a positive one because “oh we all would have taken it in August” so surely the same applies to them? They were 2nd in November, they've lost far more games than they've won since so they should be judged in the same way we have been - that they've failed to take advantage of their strong start.

Reading- perhaps I am reading too much into stats and analytics, but last season their underlying numbers suggested well below 3rd place. Perhaps they should have done better this summer with recruitment, with pushing on but their season last year in terms of results, League placing- was based on underlying numbers, much better than it should perhaps have been. Still, I'd have thought they would drop off to midtable obscurity or something similar this year factoring in recruitment and last year combined with possible overperformance- not a serious relegation scrap!

I'd be surprised if there is discontent at Sheffield United, given their season- they probably expected to be lower midtable or bottom half. Perhaps they should have pushed on a bit in January, but they probably are still happy with their lot- but I will look at their forum and see. Looking in from the outside, I reckon they have had a pretty good season- but I maybe totally wrong.

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1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said:

I agree on Sheffield United. With Reading, the answer is yes - it is unlikely but it is possible. For an anecdotal example, look at Leicester when they won the league. Nobody would argue the set of players was the best in the league but they performed over their ability for an entire season.

For a more detailed explanation - if you really cared - a book like Fooled By Randomness by Nicholas Nassim Taleb is a brilliant read on the role that luck plays in the outcomes of any particular scenario. To give a simple example, a player who has a 1 in 3 goalscoring ratio is not likely to go through their career with a steady sequence of "no goal, no goal, goal, no goal, no goal, goal and so forth. Instead they are likely to have runs of games where they score consecutively and runs where they do not score at all. Similarly if a team is likely to win half their matches and lose half their matches (and so has a 50% chance of winning any given game) may go through an extended run where that 50% chance bounces in their favour. It's statistically possible for a team to go through a 46 game season where those chances work in their favour.

I hope this makes sense - I'm trying to condense complex statistical stuff into two paragraphs and I'm not in any sense particularly brilliant with statistics.

That sort of stuff does really appeal to me actually. May take a look at that book! :P

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Seems to me it’s mostly the pre-LJ players that are the core that are carrying us and if we’d kept Ayling, Cunningham and Freeman we’d be in even better shape.

Anyhows, was reflecting on the selection of Walsh and Kent against a team that had over-run us earlier in the season, particularly in midfield. Don’t think LJ is a mad-man and would have thought either Dean or Jamie would have stepped in if LJ had a loss of rational thought for a few minutes and would have advised him his selections were bonkers.

So.... conspiracy theory. LJ posted an odd tweet at New Year something along the lines ‘if not now, when’? Wonder if that was a response to being told you can’t have any money to buy in proven players and we’re just going to let you have a couple of ‘punts’ in the January window. Could he have been frustrated at not being allowed to ‘seize the opportunity’ as some of us fans were?

Wonder if, after watching these recruits desperately underperform in his team’s since January, he thought right I’ll show our CEO and co the consequences of your policy. Pitch them in against a team that will out-play, expose their weakness and really embarrass them? Play them up against the likes of Ollie Watkins who, given he was under our noses, must have been on the radar and I assume (albeit a different window) LJ was told was too expensive and didn’t meet our transfer strategy criteria?

Maybe I’m as guilty as LJ in over-thinking things, but am struggling to see any logic of playing, let alone starting, with both Walsh and Kent yesterday!

On to Saturday now. If it wasn’t deliberate let’s hope the management team and transfer committee have learned from yesterday and apply their new knowledge. COYRs. Unbelievably we’re still in this. 

 

 

 

 

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