Should he stay or go

[Nogbad the Bad]

52 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

I completely agree the runs need sorting out pronto, but if he's not learning or improving what's taken us from fighting relegation last season to where we are now?

Of course us fans are going to be disappointed by the runs, it's depressingly inevitable and betting on Millwall was the first pick in my acca on Saturday. But maybe we need some more appreciation as a fan base of the season as a whole? This season has been very black and white in terms of good form and bad, but the nuance is that we haven't been in this kind of position at this stage of the season since 2009.

I see this 'over the season improvement' line as a red herring - 3/4 months of decline is enough to form a judgement imo.

The football season runs similarly to the academic year.

Let's say a pupil was near the top of the class at Christmas, an enthusiastic student full of effort consistently turning out A grade essays with accompanying high hopes that he would pass his Summer exams with flying colours.

Come the Spring his mood has dipped almost to be unrecognisable and the standard of his essays have dropped so alarmingly he is near the bottom of the class and he goes on to be so poor in his exams he is forced to stay back a year and do retakes.

I'd have thought any teacher worth his salt would be looking in the mirror to establish how it all went so wrong and be reviewing his methods and the ambience of his classroom. 

Not only that but I expect the Headmaster might be actively seeking an urgent meeting with the teacher for an explanation!

[Robin1988]

1 hour ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

I see this 'over the season improvement' line as a red herring - 3/4 months of decline is enough to form a judgement imo.

The football season runs similarly to the academic year.

Let's say a pupil was near the top of the class at Christmas, an enthusiastic student full of effort consistently turning out A grade essays with accompanying high hopes that he would pass his Summer exams with flying colours.

Come the Spring his mood has dipped almost to be unrecognisable and the standard of his essays have dropped so alarmingly he is near the bottom of the class and he goes on to be so poor in his exams he is forced to stay back a year and do retakes.

I'd have thought any teacher worth his salt would be looking in the mirror to establish how it all went so wrong and be reviewing his methods and the ambience of his classroom. 

Not only that but I expect the Headmaster might be actively seeking an urgent meeting with the teacher for an explanation!

Nice analogy but it’s let down unless your school awards points every weekend, because otherwise you completely neglect our quite obvious improvement in terms of points and overall performances (by that I mean the longevity of our good run), unless you think we play 46 games over a three-week period in May. Judging by current form our tactics might well have been crammed in the night before, though.

You also say the idea of judging things by points over a season is a red herring - personally I can’t think of a better way of judging a division which is decided by points over a season.

[Red Skin]

5 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Not so young really, and certainly not appearing 'hungry' this past few months.

If the players were hungry previously it now looks like they've had a bellyful - of what we don't know.

Fair enough.  Depends what you mean by hungry I guess.  

Personally, I think they have proved they have the right character and work for each as a team.  The reasons why the aren't performing like they did is largely conjecture.  

 

[Davefevs]

I’m still very mixed on LJ.  I will give it full reflection either at the end of the season, or knee-jerk that reflection when a play-off place is seriously over.  I don’t think we will get there (first time I’ve said that), but stranger things have happened, and fixtures tomorrow and Saturday will define it, not just our own fixtures.  I don’t bore you with the permutations, but we are still in control of our own destiny....amazingly!!  

All I really hope is that we get to see a bit of passion and excitement from our remaining games and and least give it a shot.  Several of the other challengers must be feeling similar with the points they’ve dropped when in contention.

As I sit here at the mo’, I don’t think I could make a case for LJ to go....he has moved us forward.

However, what I don’t know is what SL’s expectations were.

Controversially.....There is a little bit of me that thinks SL/MA might’ve wanted to maximise on the saleability of Flint and Bryan, maybe Reid in the January Window, and LJ wanted to keep them, therefore it was "unless you can generate money now, you can’t have any more".  They already funded Diedhiou, Baker and Eliasson to the tune of £11m, without selling anyone other than Tomlin (£2m), and also brought in Pisano and Steele on frees, and probably decent wages as a result, plus Woodrow for a loan fee.

What did LJ do?  

Already committed to Walsh at £1m, Perhaps he no scope other than loans, so got Diony and Kent, not cheap loan options, but better for SL/MA than forking out £10m on a couple of players with no guarantee of success.  That meant he got to keep Flint, Bryan etc.  Perhaps they might have wanted a chance to move on, hence an effect on morale, form etc by staying.  In fairness to Flint and Reid, there performances have shown a dip like Bryan’s.  LJ in catch 22, because he thinks if they do leave, then our chances go too.

Having looked at the finances at the weekend, I’m beginning to think MA (despite him being good at the role he’s paid to do) might have more influence (over SL?) than LJ might like him too.  I’ve heard that he had too much say in recruitment.  Totally accept him doing the deal, but is he qualified to make a decision on a player’s ability? 

Of course my last few paragraphs are pure conjecture, and gives LJ a bit of a get-out clause....I still think performances and results show some weaknesses in our Head Coach.  I’m not ready to bail on him....just yet.

I thought it was impossible to not perform / be up for Brentford, Barnsley and Millwall....I will not forgive Birmingham tomorrow night.

 

 

 

[Guest]

I notice our fellow renters and B Sport "members" Bristol Rugby have secured promotion to the top div by buying decent proven players from that top div, they obviously have not the same transfer policy/restraints as us then..............but the same owner

[Guest]

On ‎09‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 11:05, Nogbad the Bad said:

Thing is glyn I remember saying exactly the same thing at the end of last season.

'Benefit of the doubt for now but he's had these awful soul destroying runs every season he's been a manager and he absolutely must show they are not inevitable by ensuring he does not have one this coming season.'

Yet here we are, similar has happened again, and I bet there are not many on here who would bet against a recurrence yet again in 2018/19.

Look its going to happen you just know it is, far too nice here and nothing will change, away with the fairies most of our management lot; time to kick some shit but no-one will, while ST`s are sold in such numbers.

[Red Exile]

On 09/04/2018 at 19:29, Bri Stool City said:

I notice our fellow renters and B Sport "members" Bristol Rugby have secured promotion to the top div by buying decent proven players from that top div, they obviously have not the same transfer policy/restraints as us then..............but the same owner

...the same thing struck me...and led by a coach with experience at a better level...I'd have thought it was pretty obvious what was needed to succeed, precisely what was recruited before we went on to win Div 1 under Cotts.

[Major Isewater]

On 09/04/2018 at 13:34, Nogbad the Bad said:

BCFC has to be a reasonably contented club - dressing room and stands - and the football has to be worth watching.We need to be able to attend AG in the knowledge, that win or lose, our team will consistently visibly give us 100% effort and something to shout about.

LJ has become divisive, not because he is GJ's son, but because of his now predictable dreadful runs of performances and results.

All too easy for one train of thought to support him tenaciously by insisting on pointing out the 'bigger picture'; equally valid for others to withdraw support because these bad runs sap the enthusiasm, and when you know they're just around the corner, and history shows they will be prolonged, it's even worse.

LJ provides ammunition for each side to become entrenched in their views so it's hard to see the fanbase ever being united under him, or therefore BCFC being a contented club.

If LJ could just stop these awful runs, and by doing so prove he is learning from his mistakes, and improving and maturing as a coach, it seems to me the fanbase would be as fully behind him as any manager, anywhere, could expect.

But we said that at the end of last season and unfortunately this season yet another predictable collapse seems further proof this is unlikely to happen, so underlying murmurs of disappointment and discontent gaining volume does seem inevitable.

Who could we attract in the event of LJ going? No idea, but I don't think many of us thought of Barnsley's inexperienced and mediocre Lee Johnson a likely candidate last time!!

I would think at least 90% of coaches would be interested in coming to City .

A cushy number , a stable owner ( grand National reference) , no pressure, decent transfer budget ...

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Red Exile said:

...the same thing struck me...and led by a coach with experience at a better level...I'd have thought it was pretty obvious what was needed to succeed, precisely what was recruited before we went on to win Div 1 under Cotts.

Maybe the price for going up is to high for him to pay yet, think we will be plodding on for a while, as this lot seem not to have the desire or need or ability to make the step up.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

I would think at least 90% of coaches would be interested in coming to City .

A cushy number , a stable owner ( grand National reference) , no pressure, decent transfer budget ...

and just nice

[Red-Robbo]

Let's face it. 

He'll be here at the start of next season. 

Just accept it.

[pongo88]

On 09/04/2018 at 19:29, Bri Stool City said:

I notice our fellow renters and B Sport "members" Bristol Rugby have secured promotion to the top div by buying decent proven players from that top div, they obviously have not the same transfer policy/restraints as us then..............but the same owner

It’s true that Bristol Rugby can buy its  way to success, but it’s an unfair comparison. The fees to sign rugby players and pay their salary are small compared to signing players from the football Premier League. Plus Bristol Rugby has a far better infrastructure to support the club compared to nearly all Premiership rugby teams. For example, Exeter Chiefs, last year’s champions, have a ground capacity of less than 13k

[Red Exile]

4 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

It’s true that Bristol Rugby can buy its  way to success, but it’s an unfair comparison. The fees to sign rugby players and pay their salary are small compared to signing players from the football Premier League. Plus Bristol Rugby has a far better infrastructure to support the club compared to nearly all Premiership rugby teams. For example, Exeter Chiefs, last year’s champions, have a ground capacity of less than 13k

That's true, but doesn't negate the observation that it's experience that's more often needed to step up a level. Which, for me at least, begs the question why we have a management team with zero experience of taking a football club to a higher level.

However I'm with @Red-Robbo  in accepting that LJ will be with us next season. There's always another season full of hope, if not expectation.

I'm comforting myself with the fact that instead of listening to LJ's post match interview I watched my horse win the National...

[ashton_fan]

It's a bit premature to judge the season with 3 games left although our chances of making the top 6 are slim, the only chance being if we win the last 3 games.

I think LJ has done OK, he's made mistakes but not enough to get him replaced, whatever happens this season is a big improvement. If we changed managers I think there's a very slim chance of getting anyone better than LJ and a very good chance of getting someone worse. I wouldn't be surprised if SL would give McAllister a chance rather than get someone from outside as what are the options? It's usually an up-and-coming manager (like LJ or McInnes), since the only experienced managers who'd come here would probably be taking a step down, eg Alan Pardew, Steve McLaren etc.. Probably our best option would be someone like Mick McArthy but I don't think he'd get much support from this forum.

[Isawjonshaw]

If I'd have seen our current position pre season, I'd have taken that no worries.  But LJ's inability to halt a landslide causes me great concern.  I firmly believe this will carry on into next season.  Something is not right within the club, and it needs addressing.  I'd have been made up if LJ was a success, but unfortunately he's not.  I can't see him being relived of his duties, so we desperately crawl on until the end of the season.  

[BS13 Robin]

I really don't know on this one,but if we have another torrid run next season after a good start then for me he will have to go!

[red from the blue side]

I accept we've made progress in terms of league position but there is still the worrying trend of LJ's losing streaks. I think the board will be brave to make a change and for that reason I don't think they will. However, in my opinion, if better options become available they should act.