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Match Report: "You're ****ing S***" said Millwall and they were right


Olé

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As someone who is generally a glass half full type of bloke, 1 shot on target in 3 games scares the shit out of me. Yes, we are safe this season but if this continues into next season we will be bang in trouble.

History seems to be repeating itself with regards to us in the Championship. A season or two of floundering and one season of doing well (in no particular order) then freefall to relegation.

Personally, I would give LJ the summer to sort it out but if form doesnt improve by October then it would be P45 time.

I can take losing games of football, as the fact that the best team doesn't always win is what makes this sport great, but I cannot take a lack of drive, commitment and will to win. As mentioned above 1 shot on target im 240 mins of fooball is unacceptable at any level.

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Hate to say it BUT as things stand, we are in a relegation fight already next season. Sorry all on OTIB! 

Ashamed of myself for saying this but things do need to change ASAP! What worries me is that we could be stuck in the same scenario early next season.

Not good ..............

Watching the game today, change needs to happen asap - feeling down tonight!

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Fans need to stop blaming the manager...today's team was arguably the best first eleven we've got, which fans have been screaming for.

They've proven themselves in the past, and LJ hasn't changed the tactics dramatically...so why do so many blame the manager and not the players?

You set them up to play, which they've done in the past, and they fail...yet so many blame LJ.

You can motivate and set up as much as you want, but I really do put the blame at the foot of the players.

So easy to blame managers, as they are an easy option. But some of our players right now are questionable.

I can't see some of them being here right now next season.

I wouldn't be surprised if deals have already been done, and some are playing within their limits so to speak.

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2 minutes ago, spudski said:

Fans need to stop blaming the manager...today's team was arguably the best first eleven we've got, which fans have been screaming for.

They've proven themselves in the past, and LJ hasn't changed the tactics dramatically...so why do so many blame the manager and not the players?

You set them up to play, which they've done in the past, and they fail...yet so many blame LJ.

You can motivate and set up as much as you want, but I really do put the blame at the foot of the players.

So easy to blame managers, as they are an easy option. But some of our players right now are questionable.

I can't see some of them being here right now next season.

I wouldn't be surprised if deals have already been done, and some are playing within their limits so to speak.

The head of the parole board who had nothing to do with the decision to release John Worboys was fired without being given the chance to put reforms in place, but Lee Johnson is the hands on head coach who has now won 5 in the last 22 and shouldn’t shoulder the blame? Really?

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I wasn't at the game today so can't comment on the views of those who were there. Just worth keeping in mind that Millwall (as unpalatable as it is) are absolutely flying at present.

I'm not concerned about the start of next season because we've started this and last season well enough. It's what happens during the winter that is cause for concern. 2018/19 should be LJ's last chance to prove he can a get a team winning without this awful fragility that we are enduring again.

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3 hours ago, Xiled said:

worth keeping in mind that Millwall (as unpalatable as it is) are absolutely flying at present.

Yes they are, and to be frank I expected to lose, but what really hurts at the moment is that as @RED4LIFE puts so eloquently, we can all take losing games, that is the beauty of the ups and downs of football, but our inability now to even compete is the terrifying thing. A non-league team in the cup would have at least one idea to get the ball in the box and fashion a chance - for the past month including and since Burton, we haven't looked like we have any idea or plan how we will do so.

I said on Twitter during the game half sarcastically, that whatever we do in training, we don't seem to account for the existence of an opposition. At the moment we don't seem to have a way to play through opponents. We almost seem surprised to find people trying to stop us, and give up hope once they do.

I always listen to @spudski and he makes a fair point in this thread (kind of him to say "fans need to stop blaming the manager" when he probably means me ;) in the context of this post) but I just find myself going the other way on this - Occam's Razor. You put 11 players who are physically able on the pitch and with only their basic energy and ability they should be able to do one or two things of attacking value. The fact we don't even manage that anymore (and I think the players are still willing to try - Korey yesterday was up and down chasing lost causes) makes me believe that the instructions and direction they are getting isn't doing this team any favours.

It would be a tiny microcosm of what is going wrong, but if it's not the manager, why do we bring on two big forwards suddenly after going 2-0 down, which in anyones book is knee-jerk, and yet then continue trying to play through the middle to them, which is no kind of threat and no kind of service, and only then finally with about five minutes remaining, bring Eliasson on to actually produce some crosses, something we've missed for weeks. What is the prescribed pattern of play here, it's very hard to see a logical strategy being employed to attack opponents, and the non-use of Eliasson has been bizarre. Millwall's ability to attack versus ours was chalk and cheese.

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6 hours ago, spudski said:

Fans need to stop blaming the manager...today's team was arguably the best first eleven we've got, which fans have been screaming for.

They've proven themselves in the past, and LJ hasn't changed the tactics dramatically...so why do so many blame the manager and not the players?

You set them up to play, which they've done in the past, and they fail...yet so many blame LJ.

You can motivate and set up as much as you want, but I really do put the blame at the foot of the players.

So easy to blame managers, as they are an easy option. But some of our players right now are questionable.

I can't see some of them being here right now next season.

I wouldn't be surprised if deals have already been done, and some are playing within their limits so to speak.

Fans need to stop defending a manger who is blatantly out of his depth and incapable of creating any form of team guidance or spirit. You assume he motivates, he does not, you assume he organises, he does not. So easy to blame the players when the manager is totally out of his depth. It is easy to blame players, when all evidence suggests, after 40 players, he is still not close to being able to do his job. Yes let us change players gain, let us get through 60 players in 3 seasons,. So easy to blame the  tools yes, so easy, but when does the responsibility actually come to rest with the person who has the prime job to maximise what is available to him.Just like other managers. Based on this ridiculous assumption that LJ is the messiah, and all he needs is the Man City squad to succeed , god help us. At least there are others like Harris who managed to destroy us with a budget of a bag of crisps. 

LJ is out of his depth, and as all poor managers in any business do, blames everyone else for his failure . He has time, he has had money, he has had a mountain of players. The only one one out of their limits is the totally incompetent LJ. 

Mr Spudski, if you really do not think in the last 3 months LJ has changed nothing , tactics are the same, then you clearly have no idea about football. Look at the facts, the data. Talk to some football coaches who you might accept a view from, but to say as you do nothing has changed and players have stopped performing as the core problem is simply false and laughable. There are reasons why the team have lost direction and there is a reason for that, and it stems form for idol. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Tiree said:

London is easy away game for us Scots so fuming all the way home-partly at lack of creativity (where have Corey and patto gone) and the naivety of man City fans present. I kept hearing 'these players are only average, they're Primadonas, we haven't been in the play offs for weeks etc etc. 

Sorry guys you can't have it both ways because if that's true you are making Lj such a fantastic coach for what he did June 17 - Jan 18 he must be better than Pep and unsackable for 3 years.

I sat next to Ole who's report I 85% agree with. He is wrong about Lj as per above but otherwise spot on

What were Man City fans doing at Millwall ? 

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A few reminders to add context especially to those who whine about the whiners.

I think there was a majority who were underwhelmed by LJ's appointment. 

Most of us got behind him, logically.

Most of us have seen for some time his tactics are rather, shall we say politely, avant garde or not, bordering on inept.

Most of us agree the January window was pathetic and we would have been better off with no recruitment at all.

I liked GJ better than LJ; it seemed we played with more desire. Both have significant flaws at this level but son Lee looks even more clueless at times than his Dad ever did.

The manager is there to motivate a team, play the right players and have correct moveable tactics little or none of which has been on display in 2018 and at plenty of periods in 2016 and 2017.

How some posters can say its the players not the manager is beyond my comprehension; If that were the case why have a manager at all; why not just a couple of training coaches and let the squad pick their own 11 and sort out their own tactics. I bet they would find it nigh on impossible not to improve on 5 wins in 22. 

Which then begs the question is he at the club just to pick signings? Not exactly spread himself in glory on that front either has he. We are 2 years in on this project. Clearly its a long term strategy by SL but if playing gutless football along this path is part of the cunning plan I think every supporter is owed an explanation.

 

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3 hours ago, Olé said:

Yes they are, and to be frank I expected to lose, but what really hurts at the moment is that as @RED4LIFE puts so eloquently, we can all take losing games, that is the beauty of the ups and downs of football, but our inability now to even compete is the terrifying thing. A non-league team in the cup would have at least one idea to get the ball in the box and fashion a chance - for the past month including and since Burton, we haven't looked like we have any idea or plan how we will do so.

I said on Twitter during the game half sarcastically, that whatever we do in training, we don't seem to account for the existence of an opposition. At the moment we don't seem to have a way to play through opponents. We almost seem surprised to find people trying to stop us, and give up hope once they do.

I always listen to @spudski and he makes a fair point in this thread (kind of him to say "fans need to stop blaming the manager" when he probably means me ;) in the context of this post) but I just find myself going the other way on this - Occam's Razor. You put 11 players who are physically able on the pitch and with only their basic energy and ability they should be able to do one or two things of attacking value. The fact we don't even manage that anymore (and I think the players are still willing to try - Korey yesterday was up and down chasing lost causes) makes me believe that the instructions and direction they are getting isn't doing this team any favours.

It would be a tiny microcosm of what is going wrong, but if it's not the manager, why do we bring on two big forwards suddenly after going 2-0 down, which in anyones book is knee-jerk, and yet then continue trying to play through the middle to them, which is no kind of threat and no kind of service, and only then finally with about five minutes remaining, bring Eliasson on to actually produce some crosses, something we've missed for weeks. What is the prescribed pattern of play here, it's very hard to see a logical strategy being employed to attack opponents, and the non-use of Eliasson has been bizarre. Millwall's ability to attack versus ours was chalk and cheese.

Spot on .

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8 hours ago, RED4LIFE said:

As someone who is generally a glass half full type of bloke, 1 shot on target in 3 games scares the shit out of me. Yes, we are safe this season but if this continues into next season we will be bang in trouble.

History seems to be repeating itself with regards to us in the Championship. A season or two of floundering and one season of doing well (in no particular order) then freefall to relegation.

Personally, I would give LJ the summer to sort it out but if form doesnt improve by October then it would be P45 time.

I can take losing games of football, as the fact that the best team doesn't always win is what makes this sport great, but I cannot take a lack of drive, commitment and will to win. As mentioned above 1 shot on target im 240 mins of fooball is unacceptable at any level.

October will be too late! 

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8 hours ago, spudski said:

Fans need to stop blaming the manager...today's team was arguably the best first eleven we've got, which fans have been screaming for.

They've proven themselves in the past, and LJ hasn't changed the tactics dramatically...so why do so many blame the manager and not the players?

You set them up to play, which they've done in the past, and they fail...yet so many blame LJ.

You can motivate and set up as much as you want, but I really do put the blame at the foot of the players.

So easy to blame managers, as they are an easy option. But some of our players right now are questionable.

I can't see some of them being here right now next season.

I wouldn't be surprised if deals have already been done, and some are playing within their limits so to speak.

So most of them are crossing town in the summer then, Spud :sad26::laughcont:

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1 hour ago, Psychopomp said:

Fans need to stop defending a manger who is blatantly out of his depth and incapable of creating any form of team guidance or spirit. You assume he motivates, he does not, you assume he organises, he does not. So easy to blame the players when the manager is totally out of his depth. It is easy to blame players, when all evidence suggests, after 40 players, he is still not close to being able to do his job. Yes let us change players gain, let us get through 60 players in 3 seasons,. So easy to blame the  tools yes, so easy, but when does the responsibility actually come to rest with the person who has the prime job to maximise what is available to him.Just like other managers. Based on this ridiculous assumption that LJ is the messiah, and all he needs is the Man City squad to succeed , god help us. At least there are others like Harris who managed to destroy us with a budget of a bag of crisps. 

LJ is out of his depth, and as all poor managers in any business do, blames everyone else for his failure . He has time, he has had money, he has had a mountain of players. The only one one out of their limits is the totally incompetent LJ. 

Mr Spudski, if you really do not think in the last 3 months LJ has changed nothing , tactics are the same, then you clearly have no idea about football. Look at the facts, the data. Talk to some football coaches who you might accept a view from, but to say as you do nothing has changed and players have stopped performing as the core problem is simply false and laughable. There are reasons why the team have lost direction and there is a reason for that, and it stems form for idol. 

 

The report from Ole and this above are sadly spot on. What makes it worse is we are struck with LJ, even if we lost all 5 remaining games cannot see SL getting rid.

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I suspect that 4 or 5 of the starting 11 yesterday are on their way to ‘better’ themselves and another 4 or 5 will be on their way as they didn’t get a crack here. That’s a lot of rebuilding to do. Hopefully Vyner and Kelly will step up but not installed with confidence about the replacement signings necessary. 

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@Olé comparison with Forest away last season is a good one . I had forgotten how dreadful I felt coming away from that game but yesterday was much the same.  At least at Forest (if my memory is correct) we kept up some form of encouragement yesterday in the second half our non-existent play seemed to seep through to the fans and it was very quiet.

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1 minute ago, tinman85 said:

Reid Bryan and Flint will be gone. Pack too. We then rely on the cheap replacements from Ashton and Johnson

Not sure about ,cheap’ - we’ve overpaid for a fair few (IMHO)

It’s the quality that worries me on the evidence of last two years

Mixed would be generous

Anyone seriously th8nk we can or will match or upgrade on Bryan , Reid or Flint

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27 minutes ago, redapple said:

I suspect that 4 or 5 of the starting 11 yesterday are on their way to ‘better’ themselves and another 4 or 5 will be on their way as they didn’t get a crack here. That’s a lot of rebuilding to do. Hopefully Vyner and Kelly will step up but not installed with confidence about the replacement signings necessary. 

4 or 5 to 'better'  themselves?  I think that is highly unlikely, any club that was interested in any of our players would be scouting them every week -  I suspect some of the reports recently are very different to the ones pre Christmas.

For me the only player likely to have interest is Flint .

Maybe someone will take a punt on Bobby, and it would be a punt, regardless of how well he has done, it has only been one season. 

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Was always in the 'Johnson in' camp but after watching that yesterday I'm turning away from him.

There was a complete lack of desire from everyone bar Reid, nobody seemed motivated and nobody seemed able to create a clear cut chance, it was frankly pathetic.

If I were Johnson, I'd drop Bryan for the rest of the season, he doesn't look at all interested, and I'd do the same for Pisano Pack and Paterson as they all seem like they can't be bothered.

Whatever Johnson said at half time didn't work and in reality whatever he is doing with them on the training pitch is failing as well, after such a good first half of the season it's sad to see

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40 minutes ago, redapple said:

I suspect that 4 or 5 of the starting 11 yesterday are on their way to ‘better’ themselves and another 4 or 5 will be on their way as they didn’t get a crack here. That’s a lot of rebuilding to do. Hopefully Vyner and Kelly will step up but not installed with confidence about the replacement signings necessary. 

Only likely leaver I’m worried about is Bobby. The rest might leave gaps but we have players ready to step up or cash to spend on replacements. 

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10 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Anyone seriously th8nk we can or will match or upgrade on Bryan , Reid or Flint

I think Kelly and Vyner will play big roles next season and have more potential than Flint or Bryan. The gap will be in experience so we must be prepared for a few mistakes along the way. 

Also think Pack might go and that would leave a bigger hole. 

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3 minutes ago, Ser Davos Ciderworth said:

I think Kelly and Vyner will play big roles next season and have more potential than Flint or Bryan. The gap will be in experience so we must be prepared for a few mistakes along the way. 

Also think Pack might go and that would leave a bigger hole. 

I’m afraid I will have to disagree with you about Pack, another poor performance from him again yesterday, more long diagonal passes going straight out of play more long range shots that would of been more appropriate on a rugby pitch.

Will not be missed

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As many here point out great report somewhat contradicted by player ratings. If a player is wholly anonymous one half are they able to rate higher than five? Fielding earned his marks for keeping us in the game, as did Reid who shouldn't be downrated for being played upfront on his own only to be pumped long balls. WeeLee : to note how much better Reid looked the further he dropped back.

Bryan put in one or two tackles, but again was beaten at will, allowed far too many balls across, provided little or no constructive output and absolutely squandered every single dead ball he hogged. Eventually the penny will drop that he really isn't that useful - if money is on offer take it.

Brownhill is nature's resistance brake. Every time we get the ball he slows it to snails pace. Recall those neat passing triangles earlier this year? Well Millwall ( yes, Millwall) did that to our midfield 5 yesterday. Our ploy of overloading to disguise lack of quality no longer works with 5, so question for those who called for its reintroduction is do we now go 6 with nobody upfront? The crowd generously paid respect to Ray Wilkins beforehand, Brownhill continued to do so, as he has done for months, fir the rest of the game playing his default laterals and reverse passes. Typified second half when in their half and desperately needing to get forward he received the ball only to cede possession with a mishit lateral when had he the vision to look forward there was 25 yards of open space into which to run. Were he a horse he'd be wearing blinkers.

Patterson again and most importantly kept his hair clean, was weak in the challenge, hid, and made poor choices. Twice when in acres of space he immediately punted the ball to an opponent when he could have advanced 30 yards and bought Reid time to have slipped his marker. Some argue he fails to read the game, others he lacks the talent to control possession. It's both.

O'Dowda entered to a fanfare and exited in silence, save for his own hand-clapping. Highlight was a succession of showy stepovers which their fullback wasn't having and willfully mugging him of possession. He wasn't the only one   forgetting tricks are for once one knows what the ball is for and how to control it. If lacking in the latter always play the ball.

Pack tried but was overran by a very limited but useful unit who played to their strengths, with spirit, and who scored two cracking strikes. Our strikes were Cow's backside/ banjo material.

I'm not particularly upset by yesterday's result as for me the season has been done and dusted for weeks. We should ignore the over / under achieved this season argument and focus instead on the realization that, with this squad of players and deploying the managerial tactics we do, we are far more likely to experience relegation next season than top of the table safety. 

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