Slowly but surely building a bigger Bristol City?

[reddogkev]

Because the other thread doing the rounds is a load of old nonsense and codswallop, I like to think about the club City are striving to become, with the Lansdowns at the helm.

Is the ambition to eventually have the space to build a 35k + stadium?  Of course, it sounds like nonsense and codswallop at this stage, but I'm in the mood for speculating (wildly) about the future.  Yes, this thread is just speculation, but could be interesting, nonetheless.  If the Atyeo is redeveloped, and the club continues to grow - becoming a Premier League club in the process, what happens then?  How big could the only successful club in such a large city and massive catchment area truly become? 

Here's a thought: Will the South Stand ever need another tier added? 

If this level of success is ever obtained, of course all prices will continue to rise, and your average fan (like myself) will continue to be priced out.  No doubt groups of people will bemoan that the true City has died, to be replaced by a big, uncaring business.  Is this a good prospect?

Or, will the ground remain as it is for say, the next few decades, and those in charge be content to remain as we are - i.e competitive in the Championship? 

There are many possibilities about the future of City, and when you think about it, not much holding us back.  As long as I live, will enjoy watching the direction the club continues to move in.

Anyone else care to speculate?

[Ska Junkie]

5 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

Because the other thread doing the rounds is a load of old nonsense and codswallop, I like to think about the club City are striving to become, with the Lansdowns at the helm.

Is the ambition to eventually have the space to build a 35k + stadium?  Of course, it sounds like nonsense and codswallop at this stage, but I'm in the mood for speculating (wildly) about the future.  Yes, this thread is just speculation, but could be interesting, nonetheless.  If the Atyeo is redeveloped, and the club continues to grow - becoming a Premier League club in the process, what happens then?  How big could the only successful club in such a large city and massive catchment area truly become? 

Here's a thought: Will the South Stand ever need another tier added? 

If this level of success is ever obtained, of course all prices will continue to rise, and your average fan (like myself) will continue to be priced out.  No doubt groups of people will bemoan that the true City has died, to be replaced by a big, uncaring business.  Is this a good prospect?

Or, will the ground remain as it is for say, the next few decades, and those in charge be content to remain as we are - i.e competitive in the Championship? 

There are many possibilities about the future of City, and when you think about it, not much holding us back.  As long as I live, will enjoy watching the direction the club continues to move in.

Anyone else care to speculate?

I think most, myself included, would share your positive vibe Kev. The only issue as far as I can see it is the disdain certain supporters groups / customers have been held in during the SC renewal process. 

We're in a good place as a football club, I think.

As for any potential expansion, I'm inclined to think there's no smoke without fire and so many people have alluded to the houses on Ashton road being purchased that I think there's something in it.

Another point, IIRC, when the Dolman was revamped, wasn't it given a finite lifespan? 

[Eddie Hitler]

I am optimistic that the goal of an established, rather than a one season wonder, Premiership Football and Rugby club playing at Ashton Gate can be achieved and that we are on course for those.  I don't mind the mix of good and bad runs as long as the direction of travel is upwards.

If we do get into the Premiership (I'd hope it's not an if, but taking nothing for granted) then there is no need for huge ticket prices because of the vast TV money.  I know it doesn't stop a greedy club like Arsenal but not all clubs go down that route and we don't have to do so.

 

[Alessandro]

The logical step would be to develop the Atyeo next. 

There was talk that space may eventually open behind the Dolman too at some point.

A ground that size would support premier league football for 20/30 years - before you’d need to look again at relocating if we established ourselves.

I’m positive about the future and the plan the club are putting in place. But I think you can see there are still differences and issues between the plan (promotion) and the reality of achieving that with our current budget/income etc. Nothing that isn’t insurmountable with the right balance on and off the pitch (e.g Millwall or Cardiff).

But going forwards the club need to improve their communication with the fans. If you say we are “fast tracking promotion”, expectations are raised. But the club will say this to sell more season tickets - and despite the poor way they’ve treated many season ticket holders the past few seasons, the marketing is working and it’s record sales. 

The way football is going in general of course, we are not the only fans to suffer this, but that for me doesn’t mean the club can’t in the meantime improve their interactions with the fans, because it’s not great.

I’d much prefer the club to talk about hopes/aims but be realistic about the fact that we generally underdogs in this division and play that underdog status to our advantage, like we did in the cup run. Like Millwall, Preston, Brentford and Cardiff have all done - but does that attract record crowds and the best players? 

[Major Isewater]

3 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

Because the other thread doing the rounds is a load of old nonsense and codswallop, I like to think about the club City are striving to become, with the Lansdowns at the helm.

Is the ambition to eventually have the space to build a 35k + stadium?  Of course, it sounds like nonsense and codswallop at this stage, but I'm in the mood for speculating (wildly) about the future.  Yes, this thread is just speculation, but could be interesting, nonetheless.  If the Atyeo is redeveloped, and the club continues to grow - becoming a Premier League club in the process, what happens then?  How big could the only successful club in such a large city and massive catchment area truly become? 

Here's a thought: Will the South Stand ever need another tier added? 

If this level of success is ever obtained, of course all prices will continue to rise, and your average fan (like myself) will continue to be priced out.  No doubt groups of people will bemoan that the true City has died, to be replaced by a big, uncaring business.  Is this a good prospect?

Or, will the ground remain as it is for say, the next few decades, and those in charge be content to remain as we are - i.e competitive in the Championship? 

There are many possibilities about the future of City, and when you think about it, not much holding us back.  As long as I live, will enjoy watching the direction the club continues to move in.

Anyone else care to speculate?

I was going to add something intelligent, profound and funny but can't remember what it was .

 

[City Cat]

I think it's all about strategy and JL won't sanction anything without a business case. In my humble opinion, if it were my personal dosh, I would prioritise cash on building a team to not only win promotion but importantly sustain it. This would then present a good business case for further ground development.

Obviously this could be totally overturned if JL sells out to an overseas ego maniac...

[Welcome To The Jungle]

Football wise I think we're in the best place for a long time. As much as he clearly still has to learn how to not have an awful run at some point, keeping LJ in charge is important for me. By giving him the assurance of a job, he'll be more inclined to play youth players and build for the future. If a manager only thinks they'll be at a club for maybe two seasons, what motivation do they have to play younger players. Vyner and Kelly could play for us next year in the first team, along with Reid and Bryan, which is nothing short of amazing.

I have concerns regarding how much we are spending on playing staff though. Fammy is good and I like him, but I don't think he is 5.3 million good. Mags for 3m, Engvall for 2m, Djuric 1.5m. And I bet Diony required a decent loan fee. I feel like this side of our recruitment needs addressing.

The stadium could obviously get bigger. If the Atyeo were to be replaced, I'd love to see the houses behind incorporated into the stand. Perhaps all the front doors could be the turnstiles. It should be a large single tier job. Away fans go go in the SS Dolman Corner. Would be a really unique thing and would look cool too. Another tier on the SS and we have a mini Old Trafford/Celtic Park on our hands. With one side smaller than the other side and two ends. 

However off the field the powers that be have shown nothing but disdain for the supporters and needs to change their priorities completely. Pay less in transfer fees, wages and agents fees. Fully utilise players like Vyner and Kelly. Fill AG with cheaper tickets and really push to create transport links with areas such as Hartcliffe and Knowle. Support guys like S82 to improve the atmosphere and jobs a good 'un. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

The thing is, and it's been said for years, this club has a major potential in a way a lot of aspirational clubs do not.

• Expand the ground as and when demand is there, as and when there is adequate space- quite a wealthy city, unlike for example Sunderland which has 48,000 capacity Stadium of Light.
• Quite a business oriented city- with resultant decent wages (not for all of course, but that's another debate), and decently wealthy surrounding areas, so unlike for example- and I'm not knocking them as clubs- Hull, Wolverhampton, Sunderland to name 3, there is scope for an increased fanbases despite ticket price hikes and corporate sections to be increased.
• A major city in terms of size, with only Swansea and Reading really nearby in terms of recent or current top flight seasons. Again, if it took off and took off well, who is to say 50k gates in the right circumstances would be impossible? More importantly in terms of finances, sponsors would be keen on being associated with a well supported, passionate fanbase type club in a pretty impressive city IMO.

That's all into the future though, but all possible with the right circs.  Currently, I think the squad is decent, and room to grow with age range and wriggle room with FFP. Is it perfect? No. Could we utilise money better? Of course. However, all told I think we now have a pretty solid first team, with a number of decent 6/10 type squad players- versatile, decent but nothing amazing.

[phantom]

Just keep JL away from designing kits for both teams and that is a start

[cidered abroad]

The transformation of this club over the last few years is the biggest change I've witnessed since I first went to see City in 1950.

The major building blocks are financial stability, stadium improvements and a vibrant, productive Academy. The talent at under 18 and 23 level tells me that within a year or so, we could have as many as six to eight Academy graduates regularly in our Championship match day squad. Whether that remains possible if we are in the Premiership remains to be seen. 

The actual personnel involved in coaching and playing will inevitably change on an ongoing basis. This is essential if we want progress so whether Lee Johnson or Joe Bryan are here is almost irrelevant so long as the replacements give continuity to the club philosophy. 

Despite the three months of annual boom & bust, nothing should overshadow what has been done since 2012/13. I'm just hoping I stay around for a decent period to see and enjoy the progress in the future. 

[Major Isewater]

I just hope to live long enough to see Diony score a goal.

 

[spudski]

We've been a Club for pretty much all our existence bobbing about in the old 2nd and 3rd division. In most fans lifetime, we had a period in the 70's in the top flight and that was that.

The majority of fans have gotten used to that type of existence and it's costs.

Modern football is changing so much, and Bristol City are no different.

It's all about money, and clubs don't care about fans that can't afford to go or pay for season tickets. They just want your money.

If we were to go up, prices would go through the roof. The whole experience of following City, would cost an absolute fortune.

Our fans aren't used to it...many are struggling to pay for tickets now, let alone in the Prem.

What will happen, is many fans now will  be priced out of the live games, and replaced by those who can afford it....and there will be many of those, who want to see Prem football....the glory hunters so to speak.

Does anyone think Bristol City FC would look at prices and bring them down to something like what some of the lesser well off areas charge?

Not a chance...we are an affluent City and there is bags of money here to be had. The floating supporter who turn up for the Manchester games will then become your regular with their kids.

That's the future if City go up.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

27 minutes ago, spudski said:

We've been a Club for pretty much all our existence bobbing about in the old 2nd and 3rd division. In most fans lifetime, we had a period in the 70's in the top flight and that was that.

The majority of fans have gotten used to that type of existence and it's costs.

Modern football is changing so much, and Bristol City are no different.

It's all about money, and clubs don't care about fans that can't afford to go or pay for season tickets. They just want your money.

If we were to go up, prices would go through the roof. The whole experience of following City, would cost an absolute fortune.

Our fans aren't used to it...many are struggling to pay for tickets now, let alone in the Prem.

What will happen, is many fans now will  be priced out of the live games, and replaced by those who can afford it....and there will be many of those, who want to see Prem football....the glory hunters so to speak.

Does anyone think Bristol City FC would look at prices and bring them down to something like what some of the lesser well off areas charge?

Not a chance...we are an affluent City and there is bags of money here to be had. The floating supporter who turn up for the Manchester games will then become your regular with their kids.

That's the future if City go up.

 

This nails it I think.

Unfortunately. However, it COULD be done, with TV money to freeze prices, perhaps even to reduce them- but as you say, floating supporters become regular, cash etc, etc.

Would also add, South Gloucs and areas of North Somerset, Bath and North East Somerset- lot of affluent types there too.

[Welcome To The Jungle]

36 minutes ago, spudski said:

We've been a Club for pretty much all our existence bobbing about in the old 2nd and 3rd division. In most fans lifetime, we had a period in the 70's in the top flight and that was that.

The majority of fans have gotten used to that type of existence and it's costs.

Modern football is changing so much, and Bristol City are no different.

It's all about money, and clubs don't care about fans that can't afford to go or pay for season tickets. They just want your money.

If we were to go up, prices would go through the roof. The whole experience of following City, would cost an absolute fortune.

Our fans aren't used to it...many are struggling to pay for tickets now, let alone in the Prem.

What will happen, is many fans now will  be priced out of the live games, and replaced by those who can afford it....and there will be many of those, who want to see Prem football....the glory hunters so to speak.

Does anyone think Bristol City FC would look at prices and bring them down to something like what some of the lesser well off areas charge?

Not a chance...we are an affluent City and there is bags of money here to be had. The floating supporter who turn up for the Manchester games will then become your regular with their kids.

That's the future if City go up.

 

I agree. The grass isn't always greener

[Major Isewater]

5 minutes ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

I agree. The grass isn't always greener

But LJ  could tell you how long it is ?

[Bris Red]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

We've been a Club for pretty much all our existence bobbing about in the old 2nd and 3rd division. In most fans lifetime, we had a period in the 70's in the top flight and that was that.

The majority of fans have gotten used to that type of existence and it's costs.

Modern football is changing so much, and Bristol City are no different.

It's all about money, and clubs don't care about fans that can't afford to go or pay for season tickets. They just want your money.

If we were to go up, prices would go through the roof. The whole experience of following City, would cost an absolute fortune.

Our fans aren't used to it...many are struggling to pay for tickets now, let alone in the Prem.

What will happen, is many fans now will  be priced out of the live games, and replaced by those who can afford it....and there will be many of those, who want to see Prem football....the glory hunters so to speak.

Does anyone think Bristol City FC would look at prices and bring them down to something like what some of the lesser well off areas charge?

Not a chance...we are an affluent City and there is bags of money here to be had. The floating supporter who turn up for the Manchester games will then become your regular with their kids.

That's the future if City go up.

 

I dont see it going this way personally.. if the club starts pricing out the core fanbase fans from the traditional City area’s of Knowle Whitchurch Bedminster etc then i think its very wishful thinking to think these will be replaced by hoardes of middle/upper class types dieing to watch Bristol City.. 

[City Ben]

2 hours ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

Football wise I think we're in the best place for a long time. As much as he clearly still has to learn how to not have an awful run at some point, keeping LJ in charge is important for me. By giving him the assurance of a job, he'll be more inclined to play youth players and build for the future. If a manager only thinks they'll be at a club for maybe two seasons, what motivation do they have to play younger players. Vyner and Kelly could play for us next year in the first team, along with Reid and Bryan, which is nothing short of amazing.

Excellently put. Very important to the current plans at the club, and why the board will continue to look beyond relatively short term form. 

[City Ben]

Just now, bris red said:

I dont see it going this way personally.. if the club starts pricing out the core fanbase fans from the traditional City area’s of Knowle Whitchurch Bedminster etc then i think its very wishful thinking to think these will be replaced by hoardes of middle/upper class types dieing to watch Bristol City.. 

In that case you underestimate the pull of the Premiership. 

[CotswoldRed]

1 hour ago, Major Isewater said:

I just hope to live long enough to see Diony score a goal.

 

We want that for our children too. 

[spudski]

15 minutes ago, bris red said:

I dont see it going this way personally.. if the club starts pricing out the core fanbase fans from the traditional City area’s of Knowle Whitchurch Bedminster etc then i think its very wishful thinking to think these will be replaced by hoardes of middle/upper class types dieing to watch Bristol City.. 

It's already going that way fella...plenty on here were unhappy with the recent price hike. And you think it won't get more expensive if we went up? Seriously?

I'd also like to add, it has nothing to do with where you are from, or class.

There are plenty of working class people with bags of money, just as there are middle class with no money. It all depends what disposable income is left every month.

There are so many fans that turn up when we go to Finals, play offs and play Prem teams. Those are the ones that will become more regular if we go up.

[Mr Popodopolous]

37 minutes ago, spudski said:

It's already going that way fella...plenty on here were unhappy with the recent price hike. And you think it won't get more expensive if we went up? Seriously?

I'd also like to add, it has nothing to do with where you are from, or class.

There are plenty of working class people with bags of money, just as there are middle class with no money. It all depends what disposable income is left every month.

There are so many fans that turn up when we go to Finals, play offs and play Prem teams. Those are the ones that will become more regular if we go up.

The other side of the coin with this, potential issues of course- is if we go up and a lot are so say United, Arsenal or Liverpool- of which Bristol has a lot.

If a decent number of them get season tickets...that could cause a serious security headache.

[old_eastender]

hmmm, off the pitch there is no doubt City have grown considerably over the past few years with the revamped stadium etc.

On the pitch, well, that's more debatable. Yes we are set to finish at least 10/11th this season so an improvement on least season, but sadly a big come down on where we were at the start of 2018. Year on year improvements cannot be assumed to continue, after all it's taken 10 years to get back to having a side challenging for the play-offs for the Prem. Without the right investment and management on the pitch, we could easily find it's another 10 before we get another chance.

Transfer dealings have been largely disappointing for this season, we must have wasted a fair amount of money on loan flops Diony & Kent. Like others have said Fammy, although good at times, really doesn't look like a £5m player. Not sure he will turn out to be good business. That side of our operation needs some scrutiny, MA must ensure better due diligence.

We have not seen enough young players been given a chance, even Kelly was stupidly dropped for 3 games after 2 MoM displays, so LJ could go on playing a misfiring Pato. Eliasson is another who needs more game time and should have had it, instead of LJ sticking with senior players playing persistently poorly. 

It seems likely we might lose 2 or 3 key players in the summer, much will depend on finding good value replacements. What we don't want is all these wonderful facilities and end up back in league 1 playing in a half empty super stadium.  

[cidered abroad]

3 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

I was going to add something intelligent, profound and funny but can't remember what it was .

 

Your mendacity is amazing! 

[phantom]

Spot on @old_eastender

[Major Isewater]

19 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

Your mendacity is amazing! 

It has been said .

I got it from a car boot sale . 

[Robbored]

18 minutes ago, old_eastender said:

hmmm, off the pitch there is no doubt City have grown considerably over the past few years with the revamped stadium etc.

On the pitch, well, that's more debatable. Yes we are set to finish at least 10/11th this season so an improvement on least season, but sadly a big come down on where we were at the start of 2018. Year on year improvements cannot be assumed to continue, after all it's taken 10 years to get back to having a side challenging for the play-offs for the Prem. Without the right investment and management on the pitch, we could easily find it's another 10 before we get another chance.

Transfer dealings have been largely disappointing for this season, we must have wasted a fair amount of money on loan flops Diony & Kent. Like others have said Fammy, although good at times, really doesn't look like a £5m player. Not sure he will turn out to be good business. That side of our operation needs some scrutiny, MA must ensure better due diligence.

We have not seen enough young players been given a chance, even Kelly was stupidly dropped for 3 games after 2 MoM displays, so LJ could go on playing a misfiring Pato. Eliasson is another who needs more game time and should have had it, instead of LJ sticking with senior players playing persistently poorly. 

It seems likely we might lose 2 or 3 key players in the summer, much will depend on finding good value replacements. What we don't want is all these wonderful facilities and end up back in league 1 playing in a half empty super stadium.  

The point is OE, the the club have a long term strategy of progression. The first stage was the redevelopment of AG - now completed. 

The next stage is build a team made up with several 'home made' players capable of reaching the PL currently we have two regulars in Bryan and Reid already in the first team, joined recently by Kelly and by the rave review from Argyle probably Vyner next season - that'll be four. Not heard how Moore is doing at Whaddon Rd but LJ will undoubtedly be getting frequent updates from his ol man. All the on loan City youngsters are being monitored by Brian Tinnion and he feeds back to the coaches at AG.

This season is just one season in the long term strategy. LJ said recently that if City miss out this season then "we'll go again next season"

Sure, its disappointing that City have fallen away since Jan/Feb but it's not in SLs mindset to spend big on marquee signings particularly  in the winter window. MA said at the time "we are not chasing promotion" reflecting the clubs transfer policy and I certainly get the reasoning behind it. 

The club is building towards being ready for the PL and possibly next season we could get there.

[old_eastender]

1 minute ago, Robbored said:

The point is OE, the the club have a long term strategy of progression. The first stage was the redevelopment of AG - now completed. 

The next stage is build a team made up with several 'home made' players capable of reaching the PL currently we have two regulars in Bryan and Reid already in the first team, joined recently by Kelly and by the rave review from Argyle probably Vyner next season - that'll be four. Not heard how Moore is doing at Whaddon Rd but LJ will undoubtedly be getting frequent updates from his ol man. All the on loan City youngsters are being monitored by Brian Tinnion and he feeds back to the coaches at AG.

This season is just one season in the long term strategy. LJ said recently that if City miss out this season then "we'll go again next season"

Sure, its disappointing that City have fallen away since Jan/Feb but it's not in SLs mindset to spend big on marquee signings particularly  in the winter window. MA said at the time "we are not chasing promotion" reflecting the clubs transfer policy and I certainly get the reasoning behind it. 

The club is building towards being ready for the PL and possibly next season we could get there.

Fair enough view point R, you clearly have more faith than me that MA/LJ will bring sustained success on the pitch, lets see where we are after 10 games next season following the summer transfer window... that should provide a good indication of whether your faith is warranted or not :-)

[Robbored]

3 minutes ago, old_eastender said:

Fair enough view point R, you clearly have more faith than me that MA/LJ will bring sustained success on the pitch, lets see where we are after 10 games next season following the summer transfer window... that should provide a good indication of whether your faith is warranted or not :-)

I think the club is more healthy now than I've ever known it in all 50+ years I've been watching City. It's being run by professional people with experience of the modern day football industry.

In the past it was run by well meaning amateurs. - not any more thankfully.

[phantom]

2 minutes ago, Robbored said:

In the past it was run by well meaning amateurs. - not any more thankfully.

Not with some aspects of what has been going on around the place - am sure there is more to come . . . . 

[Lrrr]

4 hours ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

Football wise I think we're in the best place for a long time. As much as he clearly still has to learn how to not have an awful run at some point, keeping LJ in charge is important for me. By giving him the assurance of a job, he'll be more inclined to play youth players and build for the future. If a manager only thinks they'll be at a club for maybe two seasons, what motivation do they have to play younger players. Vyner and Kelly could play for us next year in the first team, along with Reid and Bryan, which is nothing short of amazing.

I have concerns regarding how much we are spending on playing staff though. Fammy is good and I like him, but I don't think he is 5.3 million good. Mags for 3m, Engvall for 2m, Djuric 1.5m. And I bet Diony required a decent loan fee. I feel like this side of our recruitment needs addressing.

The stadium could obviously get bigger. If the Atyeo were to be replaced, I'd love to see the houses behind incorporated into the stand. Perhaps all the front doors could be the turnstiles. It should be a large single tier job. Away fans go go in the SS Dolman Corner. Would be a really unique thing and would look cool too. Another tier on the SS and we have a mini Old Trafford/Celtic Park on our hands. With one side smaller than the other side and two ends. 

However off the field the powers that be have shown nothing but disdain for the supporters and needs to change their priorities completely. Pay less in transfer fees, wages and agents fees. Fully utilise players like Vyner and Kelly. Fill AG with cheaper tickets and really push to create transport links with areas such as Hartcliffe and Knowle. Support guys like S82 to improve the atmosphere and jobs a good 'un. 

You make a great point in the first paragraph about job assurance leading to the ability to play youth. A flipped example, Mourinho's average span at clubs is 3 years, it's rumoured that they're selling Rashford and Martial in the summer, two lads who COULD be key to Utd for several years at least if developed, but because Jose is all about a team for now he wants players who will only have a few years in them at their peak, looks at Sanchez for example.