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downendcity

downendcity

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, chinapig said:

This is a group that appears to lack mental strength and that pretty much lost motivation once the cup run was over.

It would be nice if for once players took their share of the responsibility.

If I do a bad job I don't have the option of keeping my head down and letting my boss take the flack. Nice work if you can get it.

Completely agree regarding the players responsibility.

The way we have slipped away over the last 3 months is disappointing and although there will always be times when a manager/coach's selections and\or tactics can be questioned, it does seem to me that since the high of the Man U game, and all that went before, the players have been completely flat since the start of the year. 

The biggest disappointment has been the way we have slipped out of contention with barely a whimper. Where is the team that drew 3-3 at Wolves, clutched victory from the jaws of defeat at Hull and went on the superb cup run?

You would have thought that a team with promotion in it's sights ( and at 2nd in the table at Christmas , we were) would be highly motivated and fight for everything. I cannot beleove they don't want to succeed, but have wondered whether they have become fearful about throwing it way, as this would explain the way we have almost gone into our shell in the last few months - little attacking threat, struggling to register shots in games etc. etc.

 

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jayjay

jayjay

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, wendyredredrobin said:

The entire team looked like a bunch of softies, hardly challenging for anything with any gusto. Men against boys today.

In the image of their Head Coach when he was a player.

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REDOXO

REDOXO

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, ZiderEyed said:

It is funny how certain posters tend to appear on the forum immediately after a defeat. I've been on here a fair while and names I don't recognise always pop up during these slumps.

So is it new posters or certain posters that pop up after bad performances. 

Either way we have been crap since Christmas and a fantastic chance has been chucked away by the club. LJ takes the wrap for most of it. It’s little wonder people are angry. 

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ZiderEyed

ZiderEyed

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

So is it new posters or certain posters that pop up after bad performances. 

Either way we have been crap since Christmas and a fantastic chance has been chucked away by the club. LJ takes the wrap for most of it. It’s little wonder people are angry. 

Mix of both. Almost invariably have a low post count mind.

Not holding it against anyone, fully understand it and they have every right to be angry.

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cidered abroad

cidered abroad

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Mtimmy11 said:

People keep saying he is inexperienced but in terms of football management he is into about his sixth season so he should have a clue by now about how he wants to play.It would not surprise me if Johnson snr was already being sounded out as a helping hand God help us

Please, please NO. The Johnson dynasty is not the way forward! 

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Red

Red

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Well I’ll be there.  I’ve really enjoyed this season and already looking forward to next.  Sorry to disappoint you!

No disappointment, hope you enjoy and the team show up once again. 

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cidered abroad

cidered abroad

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, downendcity said:

Completely agree regarding the players responsibility.

The way we have slipped away over the last 3 months is disappointing and although there will always be times when a manager/coach's selections and\or tactics can be questioned, it does seem to me that since the high of the Man U game, and all that went before, the players have been completely flat since the start of the year. 

The biggest disappointment has been the way we have slipped out of contention with barely a whimper. Where is the team that drew 3-3 at Wolves, clutched victory from the jaws of defeat at Hull and went on the superb cup run?

You would have thought that a team with promotion in it's sights ( and at 2nd in the table at Christmas , we were) would be highly motivated and fight for everything. I cannot beleove they don't want to succeed, but have wondered whether they have become fearful about throwing it way, as this would explain the way we have almost gone into our shell in the last few months - little attacking threat, struggling to register shots in games etc. etc.

 

An army is not led by the privates! (not a sexual  joke) 

It is led by it's Generals. LJ is our General. So he is responsible. 

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havanatopia

havanatopia

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, jayjay said:

In the image of their Head Coach when he was a player.

You mean the team is becoming the dna or genes of LJ? It is plausible. Lots of evidence... Nice football at times aka first half of the season but toothless when the style is sussed.

Lot of work needed in the summer if the genes can be hybridised with an imported genome. Maybe that is the knub... Tried, failed, catastophic collapse with new signing white cells running amok. Need a blood transfusion in the summer.

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CotswoldRed

CotswoldRed

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, havanatopia said:

You mean the team is becoming the dna or genes of LJ? It is plausible. Lots of evidence... Nice football at times aka first half of the season but toothless when the style is sussed.

Lot of work needed in the summer if the genes can be hybridised with an imported genome. Maybe that is the knub... Tried, failed, catastophic collapse with new signing white cells running amok. Need a blood transfusion in the summer.

Even more wasted money. 

It feels like LJ was given a heap of cash to invest in the business, but he blew the lot on the Christmas party. 

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wookey

wookey

Posted
Posted

Lee Johnson's performance as a Football Manager is defined by long winning runs and longer losing runs that he suffers every season.

What is the reason for this?

It is clear that once he loses a couple of games he has no idea on how to turn things around and start winning again.

So how do the long winning runs happen?

I suspect Johnson has no idea either but I believe that a mixture of good players playing as a team take over,  good luck sustains the run and no Football Manager is needed. 

It is very much like most Symphony Orchestras, who can play all the classical pieces brilliantly without a Conductor present.

However, the Conductor is needed for new and tricky pieces just as a Football Manager is needed when things go wrong.

Lee Johnson does not seem to have the strategic or tactical ability for sustained success on the football field but has a pleasant personality, a way with the press and friends in high places.

Although it would never happen, he would benefit  by being loaned out, as players are, to a lower division team to learn his trade.

 

 

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1960maaan

1960maaan

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, wookey said:

Lee Johnson's performance as a Football Manager is defined by long winning runs and longer losing runs that he suffers every season.

What is the reason for this?

It is clear that once he loses a couple of games he has no idea on how to turn things around and start winning again.

So how do the long winning runs happen?

I suspect Johnson has no idea either but I believe that a mixture of good players playing as a team take over,  good luck sustains the run and no Football Manager is needed. 

It is very much like most Symphony Orchestras, who can play all the classical pieces brilliantly without a Conductor present.

However, the Conductor is needed for new and tricky pieces just as a Football Manager is needed when things go wrong.

Lee Johnson does not seem to have the strategic or tactical ability for sustained success on the football field but has a pleasant personality, a way with the press and friends in high places.

Although it would never happen, he would benefit  by being loaned out, as players are, to a lower division team to learn his trade.

 

 

I'd actually take a different slant on it. Good luck started our run, well actually bad luck. We were doing ok and the season was nothing special but a big improvement on last year then. Unfortunately we lost all our strikers through injury, it was last man standing and we were forced into playing Reid up top with an inform Pato behind, form was good people wanted the ball and movement made the game easy. I really don't think we would have had that run with a fully fit squad, choices were taken out of his hands and we hit a real purple patch of the best football I have seen at the Gate.
What the answer is , who knows, but it makes the stuff we're watching now even harder to take when you think back to how we have performed this season.
I said on another thread, the coach's role is to get the team playing and playing well, to turn around any slump and to install confidence , a work ethic and a pattern of play. We have lost all that recently and while players are obviously at fault, the coach's entire raison d'être is to address these things.

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BobBobSuperBob

BobBobSuperBob

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, wookey said:

Lee Johnson's performance as a Football Manager is defined by long winning runs and longer losing runs that he suffers every season.

What is the reason for this?

It is clear that once he loses a couple of games he has no idea on how to turn things around and start winning again.

So how do the long winning runs happen?

I suspect Johnson has no idea either but I believe that a mixture of good players playing as a team take over,  good luck sustains the run and no Football Manager is needed. 

It is very much like most Symphony Orchestras, who can play all the classical pieces brilliantly without a Conductor present.

However, the Conductor is needed for new and tricky pieces just as a Football Manager is needed when things go wrong.

Lee Johnson does not seem to have the strategic or tactical ability for sustained success on the football field but has a pleasant personality, a way with the press and friends in high places.

Although it would never happen, he would benefit  by being loaned out, as players are, to a lower division team to learn his trade.

 

 

Good and interesting post / view

:thumbsup:

(Please post more often) 

and something I’ve commented on for a while

Do the players go on good or poor runs ,  with LJ a marginal influence in either

Increasingly a consideration IMHO

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BobBobSuperBob

BobBobSuperBob

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

I'd actually take a different slant on it. Good luck started our run, well actually bad luck. We were doing ok and the season was nothing special but a big improvement on last year then. Unfortunately we lost all our strikers through injury, it was last man standing and we were forced into playing Reid up top with an inform Pato behind, form was good people wanted the ball and movement made the game easy. I really don't think we would have had that run with a fully fit squad, choices were taken out of his hands and we hit a real purple patch of the best football I have seen at the Gate.
What the answer is , who knows, but it makes the stuff we're watching now even harder to take when you think back to how we have performed this season.
I said on another thread, the coach's role is to get the team playing and playing well, to turn around any slump and to install confidence , a work ethic and a pattern of play. We have lost all that recently and while players are obviously at fault, the coach's entire raison d'être is to address these things.

Agree with your post mate and to some degree stumbling across a winning formula through lack of ‘trusted’ options

The only thing I’d say , in balance, and in fairness to LJ and coaching staff -

There were obvious aspects of good coaching / training ground work in the way we were playing and some real obvious aspects that don’t happen by accident

The execution of the press is an obvious one and one I commented at the time of our ‘peak’ was how we always had good movement and vitally midfield players running beyond the ball (Koreys winner against MU an obvious example) 

(I can’t recall the last time a midfield player made a run beyond the ball in recent months)

Its as If he’s completely abandoned the approach or for some bizarre reason the players simply aren’t listening or following his brief Or he only coached and worked on one way of playing and everything since has been ill planned and off the cuff with poor planning , implementation and thought processes

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1960maaan

1960maaan

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Agree with your post mate and to some degree stumbling across a winning formula through lack of ‘trusted’ options

The only thing I’d say , in balance, and in fairness to LJ and coaching staff -

There were obvious aspects of good coaching / training ground work in the way we were playing and some real obvious aspects that don’t happen by accident

The execution of the press is an obvious one and one I commented at the time of our ‘peak’ was how we always had good movement and vitally midfield players running beyond the ball (Koreys winner against MU an obvious example) 

(I can’t recall the last time a midfield player made a run beyond the ball in recent months)

Its as If he’s completely abandoned the approach or for some bizarre reason the players simply aren’t listening or following his brief Or he only coached and worked on one way of playing and everything since has been ill planned and off the cuff with poor planning , implementation and thought processes

Agree mate, and my post probably doesn't give the coaching staff credit. During that purple patch everything was working well, the press was as good as I've seen and they had Been coached perfectly, baffles me as to what has happened recently. As I said , the difference is massive, night and day! The movement, passing and energy which throughout the side was brilliant and a credit to the staff , has all but disappeared. The sentence I highlighted is a major factor.
Not sure there is an easy fix. Some might say get rid of Johnson and start again , but that's not going to happen. We have to suck it up, enjoy the ride and hope he learns. I think we will be almost starting again during the summer anyway, as I think we will lose a part of the core of the team.

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BobBobSuperBob

BobBobSuperBob

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Agree mate, and my post probably doesn't give the coaching staff credit. During that purple patch everything was working well, the press was as good as I've seen and they had Been coached perfectly, baffles me as to what has happened recently. As I said , the difference is massive, night and day! The movement, passing and energy which throughout the side was brilliant and a credit to the staff , has all but disappeared. The sentence I highlighted is a major factor.
Not sure there is an easy fix. Some might say get rid of Johnson and start again , but that's not going to happen. We have to suck it up, enjoy the ride and hope he learns. I think we will be almost starting again during the summer anyway, as I think we will lose a part of the core of the team.

Interestingly a conversation I had with one of the three coaches after Q&A session in Sept keeps coming back to me

Asked about the narrowing of the pitch he suggested it was a psychological thing for the players more than anything as last season they had lost the belief that they could press continually and that narrowing the pitch would help them believe they could

Has this lack of belief reoccurred ?

The whole thing is  interesting / intriguing at the moment (Unfortunately as a fan it’s also worrying) 

Just on one particular subject - The missing press

Im convinced that the lack of ability to press starts at the return of FD (Whose fitness/ athleticism is poor IMHO) and the loss of Bobby as our trigger / pinpoint of our press 

Our current inability to press or slow / halt opposition attacks is alarming and the difference in us when not regaining possession in the final third compared to having construct from our own third is obvious and inevitable

To my mind BR is exceptional in this role (So alert and quick to grab an opportunity and so high up the pitch, with an exceptional engine)  whereas FD and / or MD are the polar opposites

@Cowshed is clearly a real student (And active studying coach I’d guess) of the modern game and aspects of it and would give a far better assessment of this 

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1960maaan

1960maaan

Posted
Posted
48 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Interestingly a conversation I had with one of the three coaches after Q&A session in Sept keeps coming back to me

Asked about the narrowing of the pitch he suggested it was a psychological thing for the players more than anything as last season they had lost the belief that they could press continually and that narrowing the pitch would help them believe they could

Has this lack of belief reoccurred ?

The whole thing is  interesting / intriguing at the moment (Unfortunately as a fan it’s also worrying) 

Just on one particular subject - The missing press

Im convinced that the lack of ability to press starts at the return of FD (Whose fitness/ athleticism is poor IMHO) and the loss of Bobby as our trigger / pinpoint of our press 

Our current inability to press or slow / halt opposition attacks is alarming and the difference in us when not regaining possession in the final third compared to having construct from our own third is obvious and inevitable

To my mind BR is exceptional in this role (So alert and quick to grab an opportunity and so high up the pitch, with an exceptional engine)  whereas FD and / or MD are the polar opposites

@Cowshed is clearly a real student (And active studying coach I’d guess) of the modern game and aspects of it and would give a far better assessment of this 

Can't add much you haven't said , exactly as I see it. It's like the first 5-10 yards , BR and JP were quick then the MF would push on and teams either lost possession or had to go long. FD takes time to get up to speed and it ends in Bobby closing more than full on press as the defence has time to pass the ball out. I think the lack of press has ended up with our defence looking like it did last year, teams being allowed to run at our MF 2. Maybe it is that lack of belief as you say, definitely seems a lack of confidence and willingness to receive the ball and run past the strikers.

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