Is Lee Johnson in credit?

[tin]

He’s ever so slightly in credit, but I wouldn’t be disappointed if he were to go.

That said, maybe Christmas would be the time. I’d imagine Warnock or Jokanovich will be available, for example - if the board are serious about making the PL. 

[INCRED]

If you take the cup run and our probable final league position then I suppose he is in credit but he could have been so much more

if he continues next season then we should be at the very least top 6

if we fall back amongst the bottom  8 then the knives will be out again I fear

[Davefevs]

Just now, hodge said:

I've heard the rumours as well, given Pelling's departure not long after there may be truth or the fact he's not sticking at clubs very long could just mean he's shit at his job

I loved Cotts....shame he couldn’t take us forward.

[joe jordans teeth]

15 minutes ago, hodge said:

Financially I mean, £300,000 to buy him, how much do you think his assist for Smith was worth getting us the semi final? pretty sure if we sell him this summer we'll also make a profit on £300,000. 

Forget about the cups for Christ sake it’s the bread and butter that matters to us and he’s scored 1 goal for us,not a dig at you mate but a cup run and everyone is creaming their pants and seem to use it as a excuse 

[JoeAman08]

He is in credit for me but barely. Need to see the progression in him now. The academy progression? Yes. Facilities progression? Yes. Player development? Yes. Manager development? Undecided. 

He can clearly coach players up. Many players have come a long way under him(and the DH & JM). Forget valuations, players have gotten better. He can form a good gameplan(see league cup). 

What he can’t seem to do is pick a team that is down, back up. He can’t see past his original gameplan(slow to make changes in games tactically or with personnel). He doesn’t rotate players enough. 

What it comes down to is consistency. He gets the summer for me. Get the players up to speed. A few fresh faces in as well. Then he needs a decent start and he needs to maintain that. Honestly if we finished next season on the same as this season but spread the success and despair more evenly, I’d be happy enough. Would have to push on again the season after(not many would be as patient) but a more consistent season next year would be progress for me. And no not consitently bad

[red from the blue side]

No credit from me. He's at his worst when he has too many choices. The best form we've had is when he hasn't had much choice of who to pick. It seems these poor runs are indicative of his managerial career. If I was SL I would get rid and get either Mick McCarthy or, if they became available Steve Bruce or the Fulham boss.

[Lrrr]

Just now, joe jordans teeth said:

Forget about the cups for Christ sake it’s the bread and butter that matters to us and he’s scored 1 goal for us,not a dig at you mate but a cup run and everyone is creaming their pants and seem to use it as a excuse 

No worries, not using it as an excuse for league position for me, was purely from a financial perspective as ticket sales/tv/JD sponsorship in that semi final would exceed his transfer fee. I wouldn't mind seeing Taylor play as a 10 behind our striker pre-season see if moving him back could have a similar effect as Bobby moving forward. 

[Lrrr]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I loved Cotts....shame he couldn’t take us forward.

Not sure how I feel, fairly indifferent if I'm honest, he was pretty much allowed to go out and acquire a fantasy team for a league winning season, if we hadn't gone up with that team given how poor the league was then questions would have been asked. 

[Negan]

He won’t be sacked this season that’s for sure. However next season is make or break in my opinion. I like him but he has to show that he can take this club to the next level and that means a top 6 finish.

 

We’ve progressed this season, but the 2nd half of it suggest that progression isn’t that great. You can’t be spending the money he’s had and not be looking at challenging all throughout the 18/19 season. No doubt he’ll be given more money this summer so he really has to deliver.

 

I wouldn’t worry about any cup competitions, yes it’s nice playing a Man United and beating them but I’d rather us be playing teams like Man United for 3 points rather than a cup upset. Focus fully on the league and see if we can have a real good go.

 

If the same happens again, a good start followed by a terrible run in which he can not turn around then that has to be it. We can only give him so long. There’s talent there and i still back him 100% as the man to take us to the premier league, but you have to deliver for 46 games next year Lee, not just half a season 

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, hodge said:

Not sure how I feel, fairly indifferent if I'm honest, he was pretty much allowed to go out and acquire a fantasy team for a league winning season, if we hadn't gone up with that team given how poor the league was then questions would have been asked. 

Yeah, not universally liked I grant you...as marmite as the current boss.  It was a great revival under him though.  The players he did recruit were pretty much spot on for the job in hand.  

[Sleepy1968]

16 minutes ago, RT's Vaseline Tub said:

By miles -  it’s just a pity we’ve eased off probably due to fatigue and not totally trusting his whole squad.

Plus 3 signings in January were shocking - well 2 at least

This is the thing for me. We need to stop making rushed panic signings in transfer windows and making out that the players signed are great - the evidence is generally to the contrary. If we can put that right, we have a chance of doing better. And perhaps this is pertinent if Bobby Reid is off. 

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, Negan said:

He won’t be sacked this season that’s for sure. However next season is make or break in my opinion. I like him but he has to show that he can take this club to the next level and that means a top 6 finish.

 

We’ve progressed this season, but the 2nd half of it suggest that progression isn’t that great. You can’t be spending the money he’s had and not be looking at challenging all throughout the 18/19 season. No doubt he’ll be given more money this summer so he really has to deliver.

 

I wouldn’t worry about any cup competitions, yes it’s nice playing a Man United and beating them but I’d rather us be playing teams like Man United for 3 points rather than a cup upset. Focus fully on the league and see if we can have a real good go.

 

If the same happens again, a good start followed by a terrible run in which he can not turn around then that has to be it. We can only give him so long. There’s talent there and i still back him 100% as the man to take us to the premier league, but you have to deliver for 46 games next year Lee, not just half a season 

The cup completions started this season as "get minutes for the fringe players", and ended up meaning our first choice players got over-used.  What he probably could’ve done with getting a few rounds in the League Cup, say going out v Palace, giving us a normal December/Xmas.  Followed by a couple of rounds in the FA Cup to keep the fringe players ticking over.

But then we wouldn’t have had “Manchester"!

But we might not have had Wolves, then Villa, then Bolton.

Who knows.

[Lrrr]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yeah, not universally liked I grant you...as marmite as the current boss.  It was a great revival under him though.  The players he did recruit were pretty much spot on for the job in hand.  

No doubt that summer was pretty much a perfect example of how to do business, all (bar 1 or 2?) signings made before the trip away and time to gel, speaking of which it must be what we're doing wrong, not going on tour to random countries.  

[LondonBristolian]

33 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Why didn’t we then, as we were probably one of, if not the best teams to come up from Lg1?

I actually think the answer is in your question. The promotion team under Cotts played some of the best football I can remember us playing but our whole style  of playing in League One that season was based on us outclassing the opposition. Once we got promoted and faced teams with equal or greater skill to us most weeks, we struggled and could not adapt our tactics to play as the underdog.

I actually think the inverse accounts for part - though certainly not all - of our problem since Christmas. The way LJ set us before Christmas worked perfectly as long as we were underdogs and could take our opponents by surprise. Between our rise into the top three and the cup run, clubs stopped treating us an underdogs and we are yet to adapt.

[RidgeRed]

Is the problem that many of us are unsure about what we have with LJ. Is he one of the brightest up & coming coaches in English football or is he someone who has a very good understanding of coaching footballers, has studied coaching more widely than many others & is fine when it all falls into place (our pre Xmas form). However, when it starts to falter is he someone who doesn't have that certain quality that the best football managers have to get results against the odds. The results that halt a slide. I'm not completely sure though I believe his time at City points to the latter. Having said that I'd go along with him being in post for 18/19, another transfer window, then see what transpires. He has to find consistency including players he can "trust" to deliver that.

[red from the blue side]

8 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I actually think the answer is in your question. The promotion team under Cotts played some of the best football I can remember us playing but our whole style  of playing in League One that season was based on us outclassing the opposition. Once we got promoted and faced teams with equal or greater skill to us most weeks, we struggled and could not adapt our tactics to play as the underdog.

I actually think the inverse accounts for part - though certainly not all - of our problem since Christmas. The way LJ set us before Christmas worked perfectly as long as we were underdogs and could take our opponents by surprise. Between our rise into the top three and the cup run, clubs stopped treating us an underdogs and we are yet to adapt.

I totally agree with this. In league 1 teams were scared to play us and that showed. In this league that doesn't happen and our inability to break teams down has cost us.

[Offside]

Still in credit for me. I like him and want City to succeed with him at the helm. I still have quite a few concerns, though, many of which have already been raised.

Recruitment is one (and I appreciate LJ works in conjunction with various others on this). We have signed many players who have barely featured and/or simply haven't been good enough - not just the loans this season (who have been shocking), but also permanent transfers such as Hegeler and Engvall. I buy into the philosophy of buying young players who can progress and can see how that has borne fruit with the likes of O'Dowda and Brownhill, but it seems that there have been many players signed who then fall out of favour pretty quickly. 

The topsy turvy nature of our form is also a worry. When we go on a bad run it's horrendous - relegation form, basically. I know it's a competitive league where anyone can beat anyone, but dire performances like we saw in recent games against Brentford, Burton and Millwall seem to become the norm and have worried me more than the results.

Next season will be an interesting one.

 

[FlintSaidNo]

43 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I actually think the answer is in your question. The promotion team under Cotts played some of the best football I can remember us playing but our whole style  of playing in League One that season was based on us outclassing the opposition. Once we got promoted and faced teams with equal or greater skill to us most weeks, we struggled and could not adapt our tactics to play as the underdog.

I actually think the inverse accounts for part - though certainly not all - of our problem since Christmas. The way LJ set us before Christmas worked perfectly as long as we were underdogs and could take our opponents by surprise. Between our rise into the top three and the cup run, clubs stopped treating us an underdogs and we are yet to adapt.

Really strongly agree with this, in League 1 we absolutely dominated opposition sides, to the extent that Flinty was the only man who was actually back when we were attaching, and relied on the fact that the midfield were usually able to prevent an opposition attack from forming, and Aden was far too good a defender for that division. Committing that many men forwards in the Championship meant we got torn apart, while keeping them back left us toothless going forwards.

This season the opposite has happened: first half teams came to us and committed men forwards, leaving them open for us to pick them off. Second half they’ve started to take us seriously, meaning they pick their moments to attack more cautiously and we’re struggling to find openings to exploit.

I think we could do with a good creative attacking midfielder to help give us more chances, sort of like Tomlin, or Traore for Middlesbrough today, but without the issues both players have. Obviously that kind of player’s hard to find in this division.

In terms of Johnson, he took over when we looked like we were going down, finished 18th that season, then 17th, then 10th ish this season. Of course he’s in credit.

[Jacki]

Whilst the last 4 months have been hugely disappointing I’d say that LJ is still quite comfortably in credit if you look at his whole time here. The bad runs are clearly a huge concern, but if you’re going to judge the bloke fairly you have to take into account the good runs as well. There was the shocking run last season of course, which his most vocal detractors love to refer back to, but he also somehow managed to guide us to safety when most of us (me included) were calling for his head. In those last few games last season the results were as good as any manager we might have attracted could realistically have produced. 

Results recorded on Wiki over his whole time here have him at 48 wins, 27 draws and 45 defeats in 120 games. Whether those stats include cup games I’m not sure, but that would 171 points from 120 games if it’s just league matches. Extrapolate that out over a 46 game season and it gives you 66 points and, most years, about a 10th-12th placed finish. Clearly that’s not the play off or promotion form that we all ultimately want, but considering our budget, history and everything else it doesn’t make him clueless or out of his depth either. 

Of course it’s hugely frustrating to have blown our chance this season. I agree with those who say that the business done in January was disappointing. But, for me, if you take the frustration and emotion out of it and look at things objectively, Johnson has actually done a pretty good job overall. He’s certainly done enough to deserve another season imo. 

[Murraysrightplum]

About even for me. Assuming we don’t get into the play offs that is!

Start again next season, but we need to progress again and be more consistent 

[Wanderingred]

For me, not in credit no. I will always be grateful for September-December and the cup run but to collapse and turn to utter crap in the way that we have has made me feel bitter and let down.

Think of it this way.. a builder builds half your house absolutely perfectly and then the rest of it is a total mess. Would you be happy with the job he did?

[CotswoldRed]

3 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

The first half of the season was clearly incredible. We were second. We knocked United out of the cup and ran City close twice. 

The second half has been the reciprocal of the first. Absolutely dire. 

For every bit we were good in the first half, we’ve been terrible in the second half. 

So is LJ in credit? And by how much? 

If I were to rate him, I’d score him 55/100. Ever so slightly in credit. There’s no doubt that in December I’d have scored him in the high 90’s and for the second half, he’s pretty much in single figures. 

I’m not saying that he’ll be sacked, we found out last season that he’s by and large unsackable, but is he in credit for you?

Patience of some is running low and I can understand why. 

Good followed by bad is infinitely worse than bad followed by good. 

He's already proven his worth, or lack of. 

What we see now is pretty much what we'll produce again and again. 

If that's what the club wants, keep him. 

If they want to move onwards and upwards get rid. Albeit they've probably given him some stupidly generous contract that costs us a fortune to terminate. 

He's in debit. Lots of wasted cash and playing worse football than day 1. Says it all. 

[Lrrr]

2 minutes ago, CotswoldRed said:

Good followed by bad is infinitely worse than bad followed by good. 

He's already proven his worth, or lack of. 

What we see now is pretty much what we'll produce again and again. 

If that's what the club wants, keep him. 

If they want to move onwards and upwards get rid. Albeit they've probably given him some stupidly generous contract that costs us a fortune to terminate. 

2 years left on his contract, keeping him on for next season and seeing how it goes would leave us with just 1 year to pay off if the result isn't satisfactory, or if that bad a year and a half.

[roddy-d]

If only Cotts had this support.

[CotswoldRed]

1 minute ago, roddy-d said:

If only Cotts had this support.

Interesting thought, although I've seen enough of him since to think maybe the right decision was made. 

[ScottishRed]

Academic thread - he won't be going anywhere anytime soon

[BobBobSuperBob]

7 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

Academic thread - he won't be going anywhere anytime soon

True

No wonder he sounds like he feels he’s  under absolutely no pressure in the recent weeks of interviews

[bcfcredandwhite]

Of course he’s in credit. He has kept us in the Championship for 3 consecutive seasons - please tell me the last manager who managed that?

I can’t. 

We are becoming an established strong Championship club. Yes the current form has been weak - but so have the other top teams - which is why, despite today’s results we still have an outside chance of making the playoffs. 

Ffs last season we weren’t even safe until we beat Brighton. 

Those who want LJ gone , whilst entitled to their opinions, need to remember that we are a comparative newcomer to the second tier and the fans of the likes of Leeds, Sunderland, Birmingham, Bolton and Forest have more reason to grumble than we do. 

The ‘I want it all and I want it now’ attitude belongs in a Queen record!!!!

[BobBobSuperBob]

18 minutes ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

Of course he’s in credit. He has kept us in the Championship for 3 consecutive seasons - please tell me the last manager who managed that?

His Father finished 4th , 10th and had us comfortably in 12th when he got ousted in March 2010

Suggest that the two performances are a long way from matching atm

I can’t. 

We are becoming an established strong Championship club.

Are we .

Yes the current form has been weak -

Current = Three and a half months

‘Weak’ ? 

but so have the other top teams - which is why, despite today’s results we still have an outside chance of making the playoffs. 

Ffs last season we weren’t even safe until we beat Brighton. 

Precisely - In a full season of whose stewardship ?

 

Quote

Those who want LJ gone , whilst entitled to their opinions, need to remember that we are a comparative newcomer to the second tier and the fans of the likes of Leeds, Sunderland, Birmingham, Bolton and Forest have more reason to grumble than we do. 

Millwall

Preston

Sheffield United......

 

 

The ‘I want it all and I want it now’ attitude belongs in a Queen record!!!!

 

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

5 hours ago, chinapig said:

True but it's fair to say there are grounds for concern and issues to be addressed if progress is to continue.

Shades of grey and all that.

People forget we have a number of great youth players coming through, and we have Bobby Reid all attributable to LJ, the poor runs are more complicated than they appear.  And it's not just us Derby too.