WestMidsRed Posted April 15, 2018 Report Share Posted April 15, 2018 Just to clarify, this isn't a get LJ out thread or a knee-jerk reaction to our poor displays of late. It just got me thinking... If it isn't Lee Johnson, then who is to blame? We were second placed in the league before Christmas, and that wasn't due to being lucky. I can't blame the cup run, that shouldn't be an excuse for our recent run but at the moment, we look like a mid table side maybe worse compared to how we were before Christmas. Where's it gone wrong? What can the club do to ensure we don't carry on like we are doing into next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
You Do The Dziekanowski Posted April 15, 2018 Report Share Posted April 15, 2018 Everyone as the same accountability. The players have lost desire it seems and it’s down to LJ to restore that. Another big contributing factor is the gulf of quality between our best players and the ones around them. Reid, Pack, Bryan for example make Pisano, Walsh and Diony look like League 2 players on there day. When things aren’t going well you can see the lesser players looking for the more advanced players to bail them out as such. Which wasn’t happening at the start of the season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoons Posted April 15, 2018 Report Share Posted April 15, 2018 Reality we are a small fish in a big pond. People getting bit carried away. Having said that biggest issue for me know is the winning/ losing streaks we have. Hard to take but take emotions out and this season is a improvement on last year but a massive missed opportunity. In a way I'm glad it's all over. Never wanted the end of the season so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ska Junkie Posted April 15, 2018 Report Share Posted April 15, 2018 Maybe we were overachieving pre Xmas and have underachieved since, leaving us in our proper position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted April 15, 2018 Report Share Posted April 15, 2018 Everyone and we haven't got any . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City Cat Posted April 15, 2018 Report Share Posted April 15, 2018 13 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said: Maybe we were overachieving pre Xmas and have underachieved since, leaving us in our proper position? Yup...mid stream mediocrity. We're all back in our comfort zones... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted April 15, 2018 Report Share Posted April 15, 2018 I keep hearing about ffp. What ither clubs appear to have given a shit about it. Transfer embargo? Dont matter when you have built a high class squad . Fine? Loose change. Points? Never heard it hapoen. Im still waiting for qpr to get the fine that would put them under. FFP bullshit. Its SLs money and up to him how he spends it. Fact is though he wants glory on the cheap and a bunch of yes men around him.Its not going to happen as things stand so in my opinion our ambitions are to get lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hunt-Hertz Posted April 15, 2018 Report Share Posted April 15, 2018 Ambition? WTF is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted April 15, 2018 Report Share Posted April 15, 2018 5 hours ago, Juan Kerr said: Ambition? WTF is that? Tion with both feet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slartibartfast Posted April 16, 2018 Report Share Posted April 16, 2018 Our winning/losing sequences are very amateurish. It means we are not even an "established" Championship team ! From the outside it appears that the management haven't a clue how we got to 2nd OR how the fuck to stop us plummeting to 24th (apart from thankfully running out of games). If we'd been bobbing around 11th all season I would have said that that was progress....but NOT this ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted April 16, 2018 Report Share Posted April 16, 2018 19 hours ago, Loon plage said: I keep hearing about ffp. What ither clubs appear to have given a shit about it. Transfer embargo? Dont matter when you have built a high class squad . Fine? Loose change. Points? Never heard it hapoen. Im still waiting for qpr to get the fine that would put them under. FFP bullshit. Its SLs money and up to him how he spends it. Fact is though he wants glory on the cheap and a bunch of yes men around him.Its not going to happen as things stand so in my opinion our ambitions are to get lucky. Heard of points deductions? Or kicked from automatic promotion to playoffs- or even playoffs or automatics to out the top 6 altogether? These are new potential sanctions on the table with FFP. They keep shifting the rules, these were not devised a few years ago so the Football League have decided to give it teeth, probably because clubs were flouting it. A key change here which may make clubs wary is that in year 3, the loss figure is projected as opposed to actual- so a sanction can be applied in April for example, as opposed to the next year. All in the link below and a key bit here: Quote There are a number key changes: The assessment is carried out in March (rather than December) The maximum loss limit is now £13m per Championship season (or £5m a season of the owner does not inject equity to cover losses). Losses are assessed over three seasons (rather than just over the single, previous season) The assessment of each club’s finances is a combination of a historic assessment (looking at figures for the two previous completed season) and an assessment over the season currently taking place The last point is particularly significant; in addition to historic account information about past seasons, clubs now have to submit a financial projection for the season that is still taking place. All the information has to be with the Football League by the 1 March. The Football League have confirmed that they are aiming to have any punishments announced before the end of the season. Quote Any punishment for breach of the rules will be determined by an independent panel (the ‘Fair Play Panel’). But what are the potential punishments? Previously the Football League has only been able to either; fine promoted clubs (a fine the Premier League didn’t help them collect), or impose a transfer embargo for historic overspending (which always like a stable-door/horse scenario). With this change, a wide range of punishments are now available. Nothing is off the table; the Football League are now able to impose a points deduction during the current season, or demote a club from an automatic promotion position into the play-offs (or out of the play-offs altogether). Transfer embargoes are also available (with the earliest one potentially applying during the Summer 2017 Transfer window. Moving from an assessment over one season to an assessment over three seasons has presented some challenges. Interestingly, rather than introduce the changes on a staggered basis, the Football League has introduced the change in one go. The contentious issue here is that for some clubs, a historic ‘rogue’ season which the club had put behind them, suddenly becomes part of the assessment criteria. Where this has happened and where a transfer ban has previously been imposed and subsequently lifted (eg Fulham, Forest, Cardiff), it seems unlikely that the Football League would apply a further punishment if the projections for the current season show the club is currently operating within the £13m maximum loss figure. All of this and more can be found at the below link. http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/financial-fair-play-explained.php In layman's terms supposing we or any other club lose £15m and £20m and then looked like breaching for the upcoming season, and we were riding high and yet deemed to be taking the piss with say another £20m loss, the club in question who are just ignoring it could be docked points, kicked from say 2nd to playoffs, playoffs to 7th or 2nd to 7th. Stripped of promotion essentially, though that's a worst-case scenario. So with these new sanctions in mind, why should we ignore it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted April 16, 2018 Report Share Posted April 16, 2018 9 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Heard of points deductions? Or kicked from automatic promotion to playoffs- or even playoffs or automatics to out the top 6 altogether? These are new potential sanctions on the table with FFP. They keep shifting the rules, these were not devised a few years ago so the Football League have decided to give it teeth, probably because clubs were flouting it. A key change here which may make clubs wary is that in year 3, the loss figure is projected as opposed to actual- so a sanction can be applied in April for example, as opposed to the next year. All in the link below and a key bit here: http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/financial-fair-play-explained.php In layman's terms supposing we or any other club lose £15m and £20m and then looked like breaching for the upcoming season, and we were riding high and yet deemed to be taking the piss with say another £20m loss, the club could be docked points, kicked from say 2nd to playoffs, playoffs to 7th or 2nd to 7th. Stripped of promotion essentially, though that's a worst-case scenario. So with these new sanctions in mind, why should we ignore it? Understood Mr P but has it happened ? Transfer embargoes yes, but clubs get around that.Everything else is as you say "potential sanctions" we are operating like they are already rigidly applied, and that is a cop out to hide behind. As I said, its SL's money and he can spend it how he likes, but if the club was really really ambitious it would go seriously for promotion, and that would involve a thorough overhaul on and off the pitch. The potential is massive here and a number of building blocks are in place. However, the most important aspects are I believe being ignored because we are cosy Bristol City. Just my opinion of course.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedYoshi Posted April 16, 2018 Report Share Posted April 16, 2018 I blame Sammy Ameobi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red panda Posted April 16, 2018 Report Share Posted April 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, RedYoshi said: I blame Sammy Ameobi. Everyone knows the whole thing is Frankie's fault Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted April 16, 2018 Report Share Posted April 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, Loon plage said: Understood Mr P but has it happened ? Transfer embargoes yes, but clubs get around that.Everything else is as you say "potential sanctions" we are operating like they are already rigidly applied, and that is a cop out to hide behind. As I said, its SL's money and he can spend it how he likes, but if the club was really really ambitious it would go seriously for promotion, and that would involve a thorough overhaul on and off the pitch. The potential is massive here and a number of building blocks are in place. However, the most important aspects are I believe being ignored because we are cosy Bristol City. Just my opinion of course.. I think we should have taken more of a chance in January personally. Because of our not too bad position with FFP we should have gone all in for Mitrovic on loan IMO- look what he's done for Fulham! Or maybe Grabban (I believe Afobe would have been good too, but always likely to have gone back to Wolves once they were in for him). I believe those sanctions will become increasingly prevalent over the coming years and be applied quite rigorously, the severity of sanction possibly dependent on the severity or regularity of breach- first offence may only get a transfer embargo or a fine. It's hard to tell though- Football League have always been quite strict and the reason these have come in is examples such as QPR, Bournemouth, Leicester and most recently Brighton. Definitely as a club, we have huge potential- actually many ingredients to become a major club in all honesty, on paper. Have done for years but particularly since the ground and infrastructure. I'd suggest, not based on history but based on room for growth, potential fanbase and the like that on paper plenty of boxes can be ticked. I think SL is doing a good job at building us up slowly- cosy Bristol City? Less so than the past these days I feel, but time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gert Mare Posted April 16, 2018 Report Share Posted April 16, 2018 The Fans. They want the promised land and to be actually pushing to win things. The clear ambition of the club is to be self sufficient and bring in young players through the academy. What division we are playing in is irrelevant. There isn’t a bottomless pit of money from the board and any manager coming in has to adhere to the philosophy and plan of the club otherwise he will be replaced by another manager that will fit in with the rigid plan. John Lansdown made this clear when sacking S’OD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted April 16, 2018 Report Share Posted April 16, 2018 20 hours ago, WestMidsRed said: Just to clarify, this isn't a get LJ out thread or a knee-jerk reaction to our poor displays of late. It just got me thinking... If it isn't Lee Johnson, then who is to blame? We were second placed in the league before Christmas, and that wasn't due to being lucky. I can't blame the cup run, that shouldn't be an excuse for our recent run but at the moment, we look like a mid table side maybe worse compared to how we were before Christmas. Where's it gone wrong? What can the club do to ensure we don't carry on like we are doing into next season. Haven't we done this subject to death? Why does anyone need to be to blame? There are a lot of factors involved: injuries, suspensions, the cup run, individuals losing form, mistakes by the manager. Who cares now? Move on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted April 16, 2018 Report Share Posted April 16, 2018 Its the other 23 teams in the league that are too blame for not rolling over and letting us win every game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finbarr_in_z Posted April 16, 2018 Report Share Posted April 16, 2018 57 minutes ago, Cheesleysmate said: The Fans. They want the promised land and to be actually pushing to win things. The clear ambition of the club is to be self sufficient and bring in young players through the academy. What division we are playing in is irrelevant. There isn’t a bottomless pit of money from the board and any manager coming in has to adhere to the philosophy and plan of the club otherwise he will be replaced by another manager that will fit in with the rigid plan. John Lansdown made this clear when sacking S’OD. Stop using the voice of reason in (another) ridiculous OTIB debate. It'll ruin this forum I tell ee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingswood Robin Posted April 16, 2018 Report Share Posted April 16, 2018 24 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said: Haven't we done this subject to death? Why does anyone need to be to blame? There are a lot of factors involved: injuries, suspensions, the cup run, individuals losing form, mistakes by the manager. Who cares now? Move on... To learn from mistakes surely. Second place and flying at Christmas, a well understood injury list and the cup run wasn't a surprise at that point, and we sign 3 players not capable of playing championship football to get us over the line? Plenty of questions to be asked and lessons to be learnt, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted April 16, 2018 Report Share Posted April 16, 2018 I don’t think we can describe either Kent or Diony as ‘not capable of playing Championship football’. I would go with ‘failing to deliver at Championship level’. Both were reasonable signings, but to me Kent’s attitude and work ethic simply didn’t meet our expectations (he has delivered at Championship level before, don’t forget) while Diony is clearly so devoid of confidence, presumably the result of his first half-season at St Etienne, that he was unable to rediscover his previous season’s form. A branch of my family are French and they were very excited about him when we signed him. However, he gave me the impression while on the field that he is probably suffering from serious depression, and I felt genuinely sorry for the bloke. You’re right about learning from mistakes though, that is key. I think Johnson is very capable in many respects, and quite inspirational in a few, but he must demonstrate that he can learn from mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingswood Robin Posted April 16, 2018 Report Share Posted April 16, 2018 21 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said: I don’t think we can describe either Kent or Diony as ‘not capable of playing Championship football’. I would go with ‘failing to deliver at Championship level’. Both were reasonable signings, but to me Kent’s attitude and work ethic simply didn’t meet our expectations (he has delivered at Championship level before, don’t forget) while Diony is clearly so devoid of confidence, presumably the result of his first half-season at St Etienne, that he was unable to rediscover his previous season’s form. A branch of my family are French and they were very excited about him when we signed him. However, he gave me the impression while on the field that he is probably suffering from serious depression, and I felt genuinely sorry for the bloke. You’re right about learning from mistakes though, that is key. I think Johnson is very capable in many respects, and quite inspirational in a few, but he must demonstrate that he can learn from mistakes. For me, we must look at recruitment. In January we needed players that we were confident could hit the ground running. I remember many years ago, we used to read about some oversees player that we had on trial over the summer. You'd hear nothing of them until you saw a tiny bit at the end of an unrelated article in the Evening Post, to say they'd returned home! These types of trialists are now becoming our permanent signings. Considering we have a dedicated recruitment team, a lot of our signings seem to be very speculative, and not particularly targeted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivorguy Posted April 16, 2018 Report Share Posted April 16, 2018 22 hours ago, Juan Kerr said: Ambition? WTF is that? It isn't what other teams have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted April 16, 2018 Report Share Posted April 16, 2018 2 hours ago, Cheesleysmate said: The Fans. They want the promised land and to be actually pushing to win things. The clear ambition of the club is to be self sufficient and bring in young players through the academy. What division we are playing in is irrelevant. There isn’t a bottomless pit of money from the board and any manager coming in has to adhere to the philosophy and plan of the club otherwise he will be replaced by another manager that will fit in with the rigid plan. John Lansdown made this clear when sacking S’OD. Then why did LJ mention Premier League and Europe not long after he took over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gert Mare Posted April 16, 2018 Report Share Posted April 16, 2018 1 hour ago, MarcusX said: Then why did LJ mention Premier League and Europe not long after he took over? To sell more season tickets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted April 16, 2018 Report Share Posted April 16, 2018 @EmissionImpossible Did he not say that then? When asked where he sees the club in five year's time, Johnson said: "I'm going to stick my neck on the line a little bit and say Europa League." Quote: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36962717 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slartibartfast Posted April 16, 2018 Report Share Posted April 16, 2018 6 hours ago, Cheesleysmate said: The clear ambition of the club is to be self sufficient and bring in young players through the academy. What division we are playing in is irrelevant. There isn’t a bottomless pit of money from the board and any manager coming in has to adhere to the philosophy and plan of the club Can't see many other managers settling for these sort of scenarios and conditions..presumably that's why we are/will be stuck with LJ for quite some time ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhistleHappy Posted April 16, 2018 Report Share Posted April 16, 2018 7 hours ago, Loon plage said: .......... *The potential is massive here and a number of building blocks are in place. ........ Just my opinion of course.. .... have we got enough building blocks to build a pillar or two? If so, in your opinion, what should they be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy082005 Posted April 16, 2018 Report Share Posted April 16, 2018 7 hours ago, Loon plage said: Understood Mr P but has it happened ? Transfer embargoes yes, but clubs get around that.Everything else is as you say "potential sanctions" we are operating like they are already rigidly applied, and that is a cop out to hide behind. As I said, its SL's money and he can spend it how he likes, but if the club was really really ambitious it would go seriously for promotion, and that would involve a thorough overhaul on and off the pitch. The potential is massive here and a number of building blocks are in place. However, the most important aspects are I believe being ignored because we are cosy Bristol City. Just my opinion of course.. All this talk of FFP....yet im fairly certain Millwall, Brentford, Sheffield United and Preston are all operating on smaller budgets then us... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gert Mare Posted April 16, 2018 Report Share Posted April 16, 2018 24 minutes ago, slartibartfast said: Can't see many other managers settling for these sort of scenarios and conditions..presumably that's why we are/will be stuck with LJ for quite some time ! If you recall last year when they did the big SL interview he said that the club would be preparing themselves for whatever division we are in and those plans would include Lee Johnson. As much as the the penny needs to drop for some Gasheads so that they understand that the sheikh is a fake and that there is no ‘evolution’, City fans need to realise that our club is the communist state of Bristol Sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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