Mollycoddling

[infortunatus]

My first topic and no doubt I’ll receive a load of abuse and yawns. This is is observation purely based on Lee’s post match interviews. He often says that modern players are different from players of old. He has talked of the need to love and nurture them. Yesterday however, after a dreadful run and the season all but thrown away, he came to the realisation that they need some hard nosed bastards in the team. The type of player who has been around the block a few times, one who grabs games by the scruff of the neck and kicks the young ‘uns up the arse when heads start to drop. I think he’s right. But... Isn’t it a bit late for him to come to this revelation? Doesn't it indicate that his whole philosophy was wrong, and he’s very slow to learn? And looking forward... if we now sign a few “leaders,” would they respond to his mollycoddling? Would he be able to adapt and dominate such hard nosed bastards and bring out the best in them? I think not. Like many here, I am worried about next season. 

[Curr Avon]

1 minute ago, infortunatus said:

My first topic and no doubt I’ll receive a load of abuse and yawns. This is is observation purely based on Lee’s post match interviews. He often says that modern players are different from players of old. He has talked of the need to love and nurture them. Yesterday however, after a dreadful run and the season all but thrown away, he came to the realisation that they need some hard nosed bastards in the team. The type of player who has been around the block a few times, one who grabs games by the scruff of the neck and kicks the young ‘uns up the arse when heads start to drop. I think he’s right. But... Isn’t it a bit late for him to come to this revelation? Doesn't it indicate that his whole philosophy was wrong, and he’s very slow to learn? And looking forward... if we now sign a few “leaders,” would they respond to his mollycoddling? Would he be able to adapt and dominate such hard nosed bastards and bring out the best in them? I think not. Like many here, I am worried about next season. 

Yes. LJ and the club have failed to learn that their greatest failing over the last year is defending a commanding lead. Hard nosed bastards will help pull the team together when the going gets tough. We have none, so the responsibility is left with the coaching staff, who are fallible. 

[bengalcub]

As good as jmac and dean are , they don’t seem the time to get angry when needed at the players coupled with little lees lacksidasicle attitude is it any surprise we have a soft underbelly , we need a respected hard nosed pro and I feel having wilbs here this season would of made a huge difference if not for playing but for steel and galvanising the club ...

[Mr Popodopolous]

Don't know if I agree fully.

Who are the hard nosed types at Wolves, Fulham?

Players have changed tbh, managers and coaches need a varied approach, in some ways he is right.

How has Roy Keane done as a manager? Will be interesting to see how Barton gets on as a manager...

[One BCFC]

I watched Adkins in first half yesterday absolutely screaming at his side even when they were 1-0 up. This was whilst LJ was just stood watching. Leadership brings results

[infortunatus]

I can’t deny that players have changed, so yes in someways he is right to vary his approach. I’m also not saying all teams necessarily need a hard nut. But what worries is me is that he seems to be questioning his own philosophy, he’s asking questions of the recruitment policy  etc. Strong leadership is needed but he seems to be clutching at straws and it doesn’t fill me with confidence. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, infortunatus said:

My first topic and no doubt I’ll receive a load of abuse and yawns. This is is observation purely based on Lee’s post match interviews. He often says that modern players are different from players of old. He has talked of the need to love and nurture them. Yesterday however, after a dreadful run and the season all but thrown away, he came to the realisation that they need some hard nosed bastards in the team. The type of player who has been around the block a few times, one who grabs games by the scruff of the neck and kicks the young ‘uns up the arse when heads start to drop. I think he’s right. But... Isn’t it a bit late for him to come to this revelation? Doesn't it indicate that his whole philosophy was wrong, and he’s very slow to learn? And looking forward... if we now sign a few “leaders,” would they respond to his mollycoddling? Would he be able to adapt and dominate such hard nosed bastards and bring out the best in them? I think not. Like many here, I am worried about next season. 

Spot on.  I don’t think he’d sign those types of players though.  They would see through his management skills.  I suspect he is a good coach though.

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Don't know if I agree fully.

Who are the hard nosed types at Wolves, Fulham?

Players have changed tbh, managers and coaches need a varied approach, in some ways he is right.

How has Roy Keane done as a manager? Will be interesting to see how Barton gets on as a manager...

For all his lovely touches, passes and goals, Neves is hard-nosed, he’s a winner.  MacDonald at Fulham for all his lovely ‘keep the ball moving" stuff us as clever, cynical as you can get.

Believe it or not Marlon Pack has a bit of this in him too.  He knows when to take a yellow, Unfortunately he got caught getting too many and trying to stop a ban when we were short on numbers.

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, infortunatus said:

I can’t deny that players have changed, so yes in someways he is right to vary his approach. I’m also not saying all teams necessarily need a hard nut. But what worries is me is that he seems to be questioning his own philosophy, he’s asking questions of the recruitment policy  etc. Strong leadership is needed but he seems to be clutching at straws and it doesn’t fill me with confidence. 

He has really strong playing / style principles, but abandons them at will.

I remember doing one of those "management profiling" exercises years ago, and my boss came out with statement that said - 

"a stickler for the rules unless it suits his own purposes".

Pretty damming I’d say.  I wonder if Lee is a bit like that.

[Maltshoveller]

Never been a fan of players who need to be loved and mollycodded

Those type of players are great when things are going well

But tend to hide when the going gets tough

Sooner have a team of players who can take stick when needed

[Son of Fred]

2 hours ago, infortunatus said:

My first topic and no doubt I’ll receive a load of abuse and yawns. This is is observation purely based on Lee’s post match interviews. He often says that modern players are different from players of old. He has talked of the need to love and nurture them. Yesterday however, after a dreadful run and the season all but thrown away, he came to the realisation that they need some hard nosed bastards in the team. The type of player who has been around the block a few times, one who grabs games by the scruff of the neck and kicks the young ‘uns up the arse when heads start to drop. I think he’s right. But... Isn’t it a bit late for him to come to this revelation? Doesn't it indicate that his whole philosophy was wrong, and he’s very slow to learn? And looking forward... if we now sign a few “leaders,” would they respond to his mollycoddling? Would he be able to adapt and dominate such hard nosed bastards and bring out the best in them? I think not. Like many here, I am worried about next season. 

Quite right-you can't always help people with a pat on the back..

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Spot on.  I don’t think he’d sign those types of players though.  They would see through his management skills.  I suspect he is a good coach though.

For all his lovely touches, passes and goals, Neves is hard-nosed, he’s a winner.  MacDonald at Fulham for all his lovely ‘keep the ball moving" stuff us as clever, cynical as you can get.

Believe it or not Marlon Pack has a bit of this in him too.  He knows when to take a yellow, Unfortunately he got caught getting too many and trying to stop a ban when we were short on numbers.

Yeah Pack has a bit. Thought when Pisano first joined he had a bit of that nous, the dark arts- seems to just have gone the same way as his form since his return though.

McDonald experienced though he would have some I guess. Neves though? He's only 21, so I'm not so sure.

[cheshire_red]

Players deem success as determined by their wage packet.

[BTRFTG]

WeeLee doesn't like and is unable to handle strong, independant types. That's why the likes of GoN are sidelinded in favour of the less than statuesque soft touches so beloved of our dear leader. It's well known last season our senior leaders stood up to WeeLee and told him what they thought of his various abilities (even the opposition manager was reported as saying he'd never publicly seen the like,) and by coincidence those players were immediately deemed surplus to requirement.

[cidered abroad]

2 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

WeeLee doesn't like and is unable to handle strong, independant types. That's why the likes of GoN are sidelinded in favour of the less than statuesque soft touches so beloved of our dear leader. It's well known last season our senior leaders stood up to WeeLee and told him what they thought of his various abilities (even the opposition manager was reported as saying he'd never publicly seen the like,) and by coincidence those players were immediately deemed surplus to requirement.

Just like his Dad. Managers who never had a career with caps and titles have to be larger than life characters. 

Some examples are AD, McMenemy, Ferguson, Wenger, Ron Greenwood. 

LJ is clearly not in the larger than life mould. 

PS. Not a Sarcastic or cynical reference to his height. It's his character that I question. 

[joeyb]

8 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

WeeLee doesn't like and is unable to handle strong, independant types. That's why the likes of GoN are sidelinded in favour of the less than statuesque soft touches so beloved of our dear leader. It's well known last season our senior leaders stood up to WeeLee and told him what they thought of his various abilities (even the opposition manager was reported as saying he'd never publicly seen the like,) and by coincidence those players were immediately deemed surplus to requirement.

You're literally just making up stuff to suit an agenda.

[BTRFTG]

4 minutes ago, joeyb said:

You're literally just making up stuff to suit an agenda.

No agenda. The incident involved a number of our players with extensive  top flight experience letting WeeLee know what they thought of his tactics when we were taking an away drubbing, the suggestion being him being a **** player in his day he was 'out of his depth'. When WeeLee responded that he too 'could have played at Premier level' they openly rudiculed him and let rip. Witnessed by not only by our players but also the opposition management. Injuries my ****.

 

[joeyb]

2 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

No agenda. The incident involved a number of our players with extensive  top flight experience letting WeeLee know what they thought of his tactics when we were taking an away drubbing, the suggestion being him being a **** player in his day he was 'out of his depth'. When WeeLee responded that he too 'could have played at Premier level' they openly rudiculed him and let rip. Witnessed by not only by our players but also the opposition management. Injuries my ****.

 

Really interested as to how you know this or what/who your source is. To me it just sounds like fan-made bollocks. Who are the senior players you mention? I assume Gary O'Neil as I can't think of anyone else with PL experience. Absolutely no way can I imagine someone in the squad, let alone a guy of O'Neils character, call out the manager as being a shit player in his day.

[BTRFTG]

9 hours ago, joeyb said:

I can't think of anyone else with PL experience.

I said top flight and there were 5 of them, I recall. Research the period in the run up to Xmas 16 through to the infamous Boxing Day bust up at Wolves and Lambert's comments. Things became heated the previous week and kicked off in the tunnel at Molineux but it wasn't just Tomlin involved, though he later became the target for flak (if I recall correctly GoN wasn't in the playing squad that day as he'd already begun his fall from WeeLee's grace.) One of the problems with disgruntled players and staffs, they talk.......