The Championship is the limit for us

[reddogkev]

My view is, the club don't want the Premier League - otherwise they would have pushed harder for it this season, fought with extra intent, not allowed Hull to pull back a 2 goal lead on 2 occasions, beat Sunderland etc, etc.  Like most have you said many other times, it is doubtful everything will align for us again like it did this season.  We should have nailed the top 6, and as a team good enough to get to the semi finals of the League Cup, we could have won the play-offs.  I would say we should have sewn up 2nd place - but with Fulham's astonishing form I reckon they would have caught us anyway.

Next season is going to be far more difficult, WBA, Southampton and possibly even Stoke (if they are the relegated teams) could all be expected to dominate at the top - there won't be a Sunderland situation again.

You have to expect Villa and Boro will push big again in the Summer.  And as it pains me to say it, I don't see LJ as having the ruthless temperament or ability to manage a team to win promotion.

So, we are a Championship team, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

For me the question is, as fans, can we just accept and enjoy this?  I love this league and the fact it still offers so much fine entertainment.  Take away the disappointment of the Hull result, and you have to acknowledge that as one of the greatest games ever seen at the Gate for sheer crazy excitement.

Over to you all for your thoughts, and be as argumentative as you like, makes for interesting reading ...

 

[Turbored]

2 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

My view is, the club don't want the Premier League - otherwise they would have pushed harder for it this season, fought with extra intent, not allowed Hull to pull back a 2 goal lead on 2 occasions, beat Sunderland etc, etc.  Like most have you said many other times, it is doubtful everything will align for us again like it did this season.  We should have nailed the top 6, and as a team good enough to get to the semi finals of the League Cup, we could have won the play-offs.  I would say we should have sewn up 2nd place - but with Fulham's astonishing form I reckon they would have caught us anyway.

Next season is going to be far more difficult, WBA, Southampton and possibly even Stoke (if they are the relegated teams) could all be expected to dominate at the top - there won't be a Sunderland situation again.

You have to expect Villa and Boro will push big again in the Summer.  And as it pains me to say it, I don't see LJ as having the ruthless temperament or ability to manage a team to win promotion.

So, we are a Championship team, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

For me the question is, as fans, can we just accept and enjoy this?  I love this league and the fact it still offers so much fine entertainment.  Take away the disappointment of the Hull result, and you have to acknowledge that as one of the greatest games ever seen at the Gate for sheer crazy excitement.

Over to you all for your thoughts, and be as argumentative as you like, makes for interesting reading ...

 

Fully agree with most of what you say and it does look to be our top level unless we are bought out by someone who has the desire and will fully commit to whatever it takes to own a premier league club.

I think that we will coast along and if so perhaps it will get very boring , my Leeds supporting mates hardly go now because of this reason. I guess Ipswich fans probably feel the same way to. 

Perhaps if we continue to yo-yo as we have since i first going in the late 80s we will get some entertainment all be it a relegation dog fight or the joys of a L1 promotion .

[Major Isewater]

When we were stuck in the third division the Championship was the dream.

 I am not unhappy to be in this league but I would be unhappy if I thought that promotion to the Prem was impossible.

 I would hope that the club are preparing for the Prem but really doubt that  SL will hardnosed enough to make it happen.

 

[ScottishRed]

Cant argue with much of what you say.

In fact, I agree with your synopsis that the club don't actually want it.

Yes, the Championship is a good league, its hugely competitive and there are, and always will be, some big clubs in it and some very good players. 

I would love to think that we will be right in it again next season and we may be but that depends on events during the summer and of course a realignment of ambition.

I am certain we will get all the PR stuff telling the 'customers' that we have real intent etc - they have to say that, however I think more than a few will be sceptical.

Having said that, it is clear that a number on here are happy with Championship football and that is entirely their choice.

The risk is that if you don't aim to progress the teams that you are competing with by-pass you.

[Super]

6 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

Cant argue with much of what you say.

In fact, I agree with your synopsis that the club don't actually want it.

Yes, the Championship is a good league, its hugely competitive and there are, and always will be, some big clubs in it and some very good players. 

I would love to think that we will be right in it again next season and we may be but that depends on events during the summer and of course a realignment of ambition.

I am certain we will get all the PR stuff telling the 'customers' that we have real intent etc - they have to say that, however I think more than a few will be sceptical.

Having said that, it is clear that a number on here are happy with Championship football and that is entirely their choice.

The risk is that if you don't aim to progress the teams that you are competing with by-pass you.

When you say the club doesn't want it do you mean SL?

[Roger Red Hat]

I'm interested in the OP's assumption that there won't be a 'Sunderland' situation again. Why not?

It seems to me that there is usually at least one of the relegated teams that struggles.

I don't necessarily buy into the 'not wanting promotion' thing either. I think we weren't ready for it this year, as has been shown. Depth and quality of squad not good enough to compete over a season and stay in the prem, without major investment at this point.

[glynriley]

28 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

My view is, the club don't want the Premier League - otherwise they would have pushed harder for it this season, fought with extra intent, not allowed Hull to pull back a 2 goal lead on 2 occasions, beat Sunderland etc, etc.  Like most have you said many other times, it is doubtful everything will align for us again like it did this season.  We should have nailed the top 6, and as a team good enough to get to the semi finals of the League Cup, we could have won the play-offs.  I would say we should have sewn up 2nd place - but with Fulham's astonishing form I reckon they would have caught us anyway. 

Next season is going to be far more difficult, WBA, Southampton and possibly even Stoke (if they are the relegated teams) could all be expected to dominate at the top - there won't be a Sunderland situation again.

You have to expect Villa and Boro will push big again in the Summer.  And as it pains me to say it, I don't see LJ as having the ruthless temperament or ability to manage a team to win promotion. 

So, we are a Championship team, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. 

For me the question is, as fans, can we just accept and enjoy this?  I love this league and the fact it still offers so much fine entertainment.  Take away the disappointment of the Hull result, and you have to acknowledge that as one of the greatest games ever seen at the Gate for sheer crazy excitement.

Over to you all for your thoughts, and be as argumentative as you like, makes for interesting reading ... 

  

I don't think it's a case of not wanting it. I am convinced though, that we will only do it our way, there will be no deviation from the plan, no taking into account the fact an opportunity is there to grasp (like Jan.)

Transfer windows will be dominated by signing 'one's for the future' and selling one player every year to generate funds.All we can hope is those players signed in the previous windows can step up to the plate.

Any manager who pays the ultimate price will be replaced by someone of a similar ilk, a younger coach who is happy to tow the party line. If LJ goes, expect a Michael Appleton type appointment.

 

[The Batman]

Clubs may spend year after year in a certain division, but there is nothing to say that they are limited to reaching a point where they can go no further. I am looking at you Ipswich Town. No promotions or relegation for 15 (now 16) seasons.

In the Premier League at present, we have Burnley, Leicester, Bournemouth, Watford, Brighton, Huddersfield, Swansea and Stoke.

Those teams are ones that, certainly in my generation, we were playing regularly in league matches or were above them when they were in leagues below us. You can argue for WBA and Southampton too although for most of my life, they were in leagues above us which is why i did not include them.

There are 8 teams there, that is 40% of the Premier League.

The goal for all competitive teams in any sport is to reach the top. Burnley are about to embark on playing in the Europa League next season. A competition that will have Arsenal and Atletico Madrid playing each other shortly. I recall when we were playing them in what is now League 1 and they had Andy Cooke up front.

I would not want us to do a Derby where we go up when we were not ready and we come back down without having the means to get back up. If we can somehow get promoted and establish ourselves, then we can possibly look to what Burnley have achieved....................................... maybe even Leicester. 

[1960maaan]

This idea of 'not wanting promotion' is ridiculous . SL wants the club to be self sufficient and with the money on offer in the Prem that dream could be closer. Every week sell out crowds and the added income the off pitch sells would bring would be worth £m's.
 We all would have liked a better Jan window, but they could have thrown millions at it but there is no guarantee that it would have worked , then we are stuck with a bigger wage bill and even bigger losses. No one could foresee  the complete implosion of the season, and yes it could have been better with experienced Championship players instead of a couple of 'punts' , but we signed a high rated winger, and a forward who had been bought for £9m the season before, if they would have clicked...... well , who knows
Lets hope the club and LJ have learned lessons, as for not wanting promotion though, doesn't really make any sense.

[ScottishRed]

55 minutes ago, Super said:

When you say the club doesn't want it do you mean SL?

TBH mate, I don't believe he does currently and I think that is the attitude that is prevalent in the higher echelons of the club.

As the owner he will set the 'tone' and I suspect his ambitions lie more towards the rugby club right now.

I read an article in the Times on Saturday by Ben Kay when he discussed the rugby 're brand', which he looked at from the prospective of not only a former player but also and importantly, from his new career as partner in a PR and Marketing Agency. 

He commented that all of the big European Rugby Clubs are more than a little scared by Bristol and the 'massive resources' they have available.

If that is the word in the Rugby world then maybe that affects the owners ambitions with us.

[Xiled]

14 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

This idea of 'not wanting promotion' is ridiculous . SL wants the club to be self sufficient and with the money on offer in the Prem that dream could be closer. Every week sell out crowds and the added income the off pitch sells would bring would be worth £m's.
 We all would have liked a better Jan window, but they could have thrown millions at it but there is no guarantee that it would have worked , then we are stuck with a bigger wage bill and even bigger losses. No one could foresee  the complete implosion of the season, and yes it could have been better with experienced Championship players instead of a couple of 'punts' , but we signed a high rated winger, and a forward who had been bought for £9m the season before, if they would have clicked...... well , who knows
Lets hope the club and LJ have learned lessons, as for not wanting promotion though, doesn't really make any sense.

Totally agree and as @glynriley said, "we will do it our way".

I've been watching City for nearly 40 years and I would say we are closer to a Premier League season that at any point since our relegation from the top flight in 1980.

I have no desire to see the club burn cash to chase the dream.  Sustained growth would be my aim - and a bit of luck.

[Alessandro]

Not sure I agree with OP - but for me it boils down to budgets, not ambition. We are where our budget is.

I've argued a lot against the idea that "we were 2nd at Christmas, we should be good enough to be in the top 6 by the summer, simple"

It's no coincidence that after Derby's win last night, the current top 6 as we near the end of the season is:

Wolves - Cardiff -  Fulham - Villa - Boro - Derby

Pretty much 6 of the clubs with the biggest budgets and wage bills in the league. Cardiff perhaps the exception, but still a club with parachute payments. 

Those 'smaller' budget clubs like us, Brentford, Preston, Millwall, Sheff Utd who've been in the top 6 have shown how difficult it is to maintain that form over a whole season, on a budget that doesn't pay top wages for the best players or have the squad depth to call on. Millwall were flying, but look like slowing slightly - do you think their fans argue that if they'd played better at the start of the season, they'd be in the top 6 easily now?

So you can see the way we are trying to do it is to build our squad over a period of time, which will mean losing players who out-grow us along the way, but for good money to build further. It's the long game and ultimately relies on a group of young players coming of age at the same time, along with the right coach. 

This to me seems the logical solution, unless we get massive new funding. Where is that coming from?

[ChippenhamRed]

It is utterly absurd to suggest that a club would spend £45 million on a stadium redevelopment, invest in the training facilities, and continue to spend sizeable sums of money on players and then suggest they "don't want" to be in the world's most watched football league with all the riches that go with it.  Not wanting it, and not wanting to do it your way, are not the same thing.  The club want sustainable growth.  The broad progress seen both on and off the pitch over the last five years proves they are doing something right.  I'm as frustrated with anyone with the decline in the second half of the season, but to draw the conclusion that the club "don't want promotion" is just a childish and petulant reaction to Lansdown not being willing to throw endless amounts of money at it.

[Babbacome Dave]

I fully agree that it's also my belief that SL is more than happy with the football club holding their own in the championship. I have said for a long time now he is and has put more resources in the rugby club. Let's be honest although I am not an egg chaser myself but the West Country is probably more know for rugby rather than football.  For example, Exeter, Bath and Gloucester. Also let's look at the financial situation as Bristol Sport. Premiership rugby will bring in significant amounts especially with local derbies. Currently the football club bring in 20,000+ at home games, if we would be a premiership team we could only bring in 27,000 anyway. Would those extra 6000 bring in sufficient funds to pay premiership wages? I think not!

I have supported BCFC for more than 55 years as you can imagine I have seen the good times and the bad. My problem is that at the moment we have been so close to progress never been seen by us before but at the same time we seem to be either afraid or don't want to take that final step.

Many years ago my old man was a gashead, those were the days when the gas were always top of the third division all season but always failed promotion. His answer to this was, it's better to be top of a division rather than bottom of the next division. Perhaps SL has the same thoughts.

[1bristolcity]

For the club not to want promotion, that would mean if we are in danger of doing so, then we would have to 'throw' games I guess. 

[Super]

5 minutes ago, 1bristolcity said:

For the club not to want promotion, that would mean if we are in danger of doing so, then we would have to 'throw' games I guess. 

Ah that explains it then.

[cheshire_red]

Stoke are in trouble, their backer is under pressure from family to cut investment and as the club being in the Premiership was an advantage to Bet365 being in the Championship will be much less so.

[Big Red Rich]

If we wanted promotion we would have hired a manager capable of delivering it, we haven't and we are 'reaping' the rewards..

[1bristolcity]

35 minutes ago, Big Red Rich said:

If we wanted promotion we would have hired a manager capable of delivering it, we haven't and we are 'reaping' the rewards..

Here we go...again.

 

[View from the Dolman]

47 minutes ago, Big Red Rich said:

If we wanted promotion we would have hired a manager capable of delivering it, we haven't and we are 'reaping' the rewards..

Does this apply to every club not achieving promotion? Have Leeds, Sheffield Wednesday and Norwich City deliberately hired duffs too?

[reddogkev]

2 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

It is utterly absurd to suggest that a club would spend £45 million on a stadium redevelopment, invest in the training facilities, and continue to spend sizeable sums of money on players and then suggest they "don't want" to be in the world's most watched football league with all the riches that go with it.  Not wanting it, and not wanting to do it your way, are not the same thing.  The club want sustainable growth.  The broad progress seen both on and off the pitch over the last five years proves they are doing something right.  I'm as frustrated with anyone with the decline in the second half of the season, but to draw the conclusion that the club "don't want promotion" is just a childish and petulant reaction to Lansdown not being willing to throw endless amounts of money at it.

I do like your answer a lot, although I don't think the subject matter in the thread is childish or petulant!  Nobody wants SL to throw endless amount of money at the situation - but January was a disaster, the players brought in were atrocious for that specific window (granted, we all had high hopes for Kent).  We should not have been in the market for Diony, and should have been prepared to strengthen the defence accordingly, without breaking the bank.

[ashton_fan]

I think the Club wants the Prem but some players may have worries about being sold if that happened, eg Korey Smith got sold by Norwich after promotion to Prem and ended up in L1, some may have this in the back of their minds especially if their family nicely settled in Bristol

[Gert Mare]

Present board are in more of a comfort zone in the Championship. The thought of big money and spending it like water in the Premier League frightens the life out of them.

[spudski]

47 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

I do like your answer a lot, although I don't think the subject matter in the thread is childish or petulant!  Nobody wants SL to throw endless amount of money at the situation - but January was a disaster, the players brought in were atrocious for that specific window (granted, we all had high hopes for Kent).  We should not have been in the market for Diony, and should have been prepared to strengthen the defence accordingly, without breaking the bank.

No offence mate...but I'm really not sure why so many fans on here don't get the FFP rules, and the restrictions teams are under these days.

If money was no object, regardless of our philosophy right now, SL would have dug deep if he knew we needed quality to reinforce for the push in January.

But he didn't...because of Budgets, Contracts etc and the restrictions we now have in place.

You can have all the money in the world and be willing to spend it, but you can't these days. It's restricted.

I'm really struggling to understand after so many threads, about January, why it hasn't sunk in with certain fans yet.

Sitting 2nd in December with all those injuries...do you not think SL would have bought in if he could have?

[downendcity]

8 minutes ago, spudski said:

No offence mate...but I'm really not sure why so many fans on here don't get the FFP rules, and the restrictions teams are under these days.

If money was no object, regardless of our philosophy right now, SL would have dug deep if he knew we needed quality to reinforce for the push in January.

But he didn't...because of Budgets, Contracts etc and the restrictions we now have in place.

You can have all the money in the world and be willing to spend it, but you can't these days. It's restricted.

I'm really struggling to understand after so many threads, about January, why it hasn't sunk in with certain fans yet.

Sitting 2nd in December with all those injuries...do you not think SL would have bought in if he could have?

There's none so blind that will not see.

['Orns]

3 hours ago, ScottishRed said:

TBH mate, I don't believe he does currently and I think that is the attitude that is prevalent in the higher echelons of the club.

As the owner he will set the 'tone' and I suspect his ambitions lie more towards the rugby club right now.

I read an article in the Times on Saturday by Ben Kay when he discussed the rugby 're brand', which he looked at from the prospective of not only a former player but also and importantly, from his new career as partner in a PR and Marketing Agency. 

He commented that all of the big European Rugby Clubs are more than a little scared by Bristol and the 'massive resources' they have available.

If that is the word in the Rugby world then maybe that affects the owners ambitions with us.

That makes me sad

Although I can remember people saying that about Bris two years ago, and they fucked it up royally. Don't forget there is a ceiling on what English clubs can spend wages wise, so I don't see what the concern is. Unless they flout the rules like say (for example, in case the lawyers are reading) Saracens and Barf. The (allegedly) cheating ***s

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, Cheesleysmate said:

Present board are in more of a comfort zone in the Championship. The thought of big money and spending it like water in the Premier League frightens the life out of them.

Exactly this, ^^^ other clubs like Bournemouth, Burnley even Stoke, Palace, Huddersfield (didn't we trash them last season) etc set out their stall employ decent managers and go for it; we are forever going around and around and getting no-where; are these clubs really that much better than us or have they just got more drive and ambition.

[Major Isewater]

6 minutes ago, Bri Stool City said:

Exactly this, ^^^ other clubs like Bournemouth, Burnley even Stoke, Palace, Huddersfield (didn't we trash them last season) etc set out their stall employ decent managers and go for it; we are forever going around and around and getting no-where; are these clubs really that much better than us or have they just got more drive and ambition.

I don't think it's lack of drive or ambition more a question of being over cautious and too soft .

SL is a money man , they are not known for taking risks with their own money .

He appears to like total control and doesn't like his authority questioned, does he Cotts or SOD ? 

 

[Rinkadink]

4 hours ago, ScottishRed said:

TBH mate, I don't believe he does currently and I think that is the attitude that is prevalent in the higher echelons of the club.

As the owner he will set the 'tone' and I suspect his ambitions lie more towards the rugby club right now.

I read an article in the Times on Saturday by Ben Kay when he discussed the rugby 're brand', which he looked at from the prospective of not only a former player but also and importantly, from his new career as partner in a PR and Marketing Agency. 

He commented that all of the big European Rugby Clubs are more than a little scared by Bristol and the 'massive resources' they have available.

If that is the word in the Rugby world then maybe that affects the owners ambitions with us.

I think that's nonsense. It's more along the lines of "We want to sell out 27,000 seats every weekend instead of every other".

The soccer and rugby together have that potential, Bristol Sport as a collective stand to gain a lot more and can use the revenue together to make something very special in our city and surrounding areas. It can be done. The real problem is finding the right people with the vision and the talent to execute it. Bris have landed Pat Lam who is the right man for the job and wants to leave a special legacy, City have yet to find that person at present and more will be needed in both camps for the whole thing to succeed. It would be hard to deny both clubs are on the up overall but not without issues, it's how we all deal with them and press on which will be the making. Exciting times ahead, I feel.

[ScottishRed]

45 minutes ago, spudski said:

No offence mate...but I'm really not sure why so many fans on here don't get the FFP rules, and the restrictions teams are under these days.

If money was no object, regardless of our philosophy right now, SL would have dug deep if he knew we needed quality to reinforce for the push in January.

But he didn't...because of Budgets, Contracts etc and the restrictions we now have in place.

You can have all the money in the world and be willing to spend it, but you can't these days. It's restricted.

I'm really struggling to understand after so many threads, about January, why it hasn't sunk in with certain fans yet.

Sitting 2nd in December with all those injuries...do you not think SL would have bought in if he could have?

I think part of the problem here is that money was spent in January - two loans that no doubt had a fee attached plus a %, or maybe all of their wages.

We also spent some cash on a permanent signing - rumoured to be around £1m, plus wages of course.

Now if you look at those three transactions money was spent / committed in January and I assume that fell in line with budgets / FFP etc.

So the real issue with January is not that we did not spend money - it is what we spent it on.

Two duds whose recent track record, i.e. the first half of this season, should have had all kinds of alarm bells ringing.

And a CM who was apparently 'ready' ,according to our HC, but clearly is nowhere near.

I think the January 'debate' is around these facts not budgets / FFP / contracts.

I have no idea how much the two loans have cost but add that sum to the amount we paid 'up front' to Everton and you probably have a pot of money that would have funded one £40k per week player for 5 months.

I have no idea who was available, who would come, here, who we spoke to - I don't  work for the club, but what I do know is that in January our stock was high in many respects and I would be surprised if we were not attractive to this hypothetical player as a short term plan.

As for FFP lots of clubs have driven a horse and carriage through that, QPR, as we all know, have been found guilty for example, what punishment have they had? Will they and others like them ever be penalised?

I suspect that a high percentage of clubs that get promoted to the PL having never been there previously and therefore no cash benefits from it, 'bend' the commercial rules significantly. Ultimately, it is almost impossible to get promoted without doing so