Get a grip

[You Do The Dziekanowski]

8 hours ago, frenchred said:

Not another topic from a happy clappers. I've followed this club for a long long time and I'm pissed right off with how we threw away a golden opportunity. But hey ho you keep applauding mediocracy it's what they want.

I don’t think anyone is a happy clapper. 

No one is looking at where we were and where we are now and jumping around their living room with smiles on their faces. 

Looking at the season as a whole, we have done well, we’re better than last season, players have stepped up to this level and we went on a tremendous cup run. The club is in the best position it’s ever been in. There’s more reason to feel positive about the future of our club than negative, even though we have gone on a second consecutive spell of poor results. Still, no one is happy with the current results, performances and position based on where we were in December just because we have a more positive outlook on it doesn’t mean we’re ‘happy clappers’ 

[oldstandrobin]

8 hours ago, EmersonsRed said:

Fair enough. I see both sides. Don't know where I stand personally. We were probably largely over achieving earlier in the season but yes I agree it's a horror show that we have cocked it up.

I'm a big LJ fan, I think he's a good coach, but even I have been left questioning substitutions and lack of willingness to make changes during the game. Seems we have a plan A and not much else. For me my bigger worry is off the pitch, our recruitment is ******* appalling. January was huge for us and we cocked it up completely. Wrong players bought in, it's a mess.

I don't know where we go from here. Pretty confident we'll lose all of our better players in the summer - there are teams above us who will miss out on promotion and want them and probably in a couple of cases crap Prem teams wanting them and I'm not convinced we will replace them adequately. Manager needs to take responsibility, certain players need to take responsibility for this season too. But I'm already thinking about next season and I have no idea how it's going to go

After following them for nearly 60 years I do 

[RidgeRed]

8 hours ago, EnglandsNo2 said:

Told there was a major public disagreement between the pair at the training resort 

Not heard this before. Have I been half asleep - like our defence?

[Eddie Hitler]

Take the season as a whole: very decent.

February, March, April were however shockingly bad.

The more important fact is how was the season as a whole.

[Bar BS3]

1 hour ago, 054123 said:

Come on. I respect that you try to put the positive side across, it helps balance the forum, but from playing premiership quality football and being second (comfortably in the playoffs) at Christmas, to this disaster of a 4 month stretch is poor. Your right, in that it’s not as poor as other parts of the Lansdown era, but this is bad. For a team to be so consistently good for four months, to being so inept for 4 months, Is not very good.

I understand the frustration of those who can/choose to only see it like that, however, take a moment and let me refer to some good old Cliches to explain...

”it’s a marathon, not a sprint”

”nobody wins anything in December”

”it’s a long, hard season”

”it’s a very competitive division/one of the hardest/most competitive in the world”

so... yes, of course the second half has been disappointing, after the first half, but we can only really judge progress over a comparison of our most recent 46 game entire seasons. Since our return the the championship, this has been by far  our best of the three, overall. 

We are not the only team to suffer Jekyl & hide throughout the season. Some have done it in reverse and look better set for it, others have also tailed off the pace. Villa, Fulham, Millwall, Brentford all started slowly. 

Leeds, Ipswich, QPR?, Sheffield United, us, all started strongly. 

 

[old_eastender]

7 hours ago, Robin TBW said:

Get a grip? 

Sorry but right back at you. We were second... second. In great form, along with a solid cup run and looking good for AT LEAST a playoff spot. And with our knockout competition form this season that still didn't have many worried. The fall since that has been of epic proportions. What is it, about 19 points from 21? Something like that.

At the start of the season sure, 10th or whatever and a cup run is lovely. BUT, our goals and aspirations changed. You think Leicester City's goal at the start of the Premier League season a couple of years ago was to win the league? Like **** was it. But they got themselves in such a position that goal changed and they adapted to it.

This squad have not adapted at all to that new goal and as soon as teams began to look at us as a genuine threat they all crumbled. They shouldn't be proud of that. They should be embarrassed at what they've suddenly become in only four short months.

Goals don't have to just be set at the start of the season and reviewed at the end. Any good leader will consistently be reviewing goals and amending them to meet the current circumstances. This is what the club have done but they've failed to meet them.

Should we REALLY celebrate this collapse because at the start of the season this is what we expected? Bollocks. That's what Bristol City has been for too long and if we settle now, we always will.

**** your settling for mediocrity (which midtable is). **** your best season because we beat United in the Whogivesacrap Cup. We've collapsed and there's a bloody lot of work to do.

But you keep celebrating beating Manchester United as if that's the best thing we'll ever do. That's what mediocre clubs do. Just like how Bristol Rovers fans dwelled for years on beating us in knockout competition a while back as if it was their world.

We've failed. Recognise it.

Well said, fed-up with this we've done well finishing in the top half nonsense, from where we were at end of Dec we have not done well in the league at all, golden opportunity (which might take another 10 years to come around again)  blown.   

[CliftonCliff]

6 hours ago, Robin TBW said:

Get a grip? 

We've failed. Recognise it.

Since when, given the club’s long-term history, has about tenth in the second tier of English football been defined as failure, particularly when you consider where we finished last season?

In the much shorter context of the current season and the success up until December, it is certainly a disappointment, and of course we all feel that, and the concern at the inability to turn around our run of awful form is also entirely justified, but as usual with OTIB what we are seeing is a typical over-reaction, as a result of which the argument becomes totally and unhelpfully polarised. Hence one has to be pigeonholed and derided as either a doom merchant or a happy clapper. Most sensible people are neither.

Success?. No. Dissapointment? Yes. Progress? Arguably. Failure? No. Disaster? Certainly not. Maybe it’s you who needs to recognise that.

It’s not a “grip” we’re lacking, it’s a balanced view. A sense of perspective wouldn’t go amiss. That’ll be the day, on this forum.

[Super]

Same thread different title!

[spudski]

It annoys me so much when I read how angry some supporters are, when they say 'We've blown it'.

Do they honestly believe we have a squad strong enough in this league to finish in the top 2? Seriously!!!

And even if we made the top 6...there is no guarantee of going up, it's a lottery. The same fans would complain and said 'we blew it' if losing in the play offs.

Over a whole season...we sit 2 wins difference from being in the top 6. Just two wins...and some people think it's mediocre.

I can understand feeling disappointed...but some are seriously deluded imo.

And nothing more frustrating than people being accused of being 'happy clappers'...when they see it for what it is.

[GrahamC]

9 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Which foreign clubs want Maggers and Djuric?

There was reported Russian interest in Magnússon on deadline day and it appeared we were willing to let him go.

He has made less appearances this season than last and although out injured of late that isn’t the reason as his availability record is very good.

This summer he is highly likely to be a first choice at the World Cup in Russia, not ITK or anything but I would not be at all surprised if he moved there.

No one will take a punt on Djuric, I rate him but his injury record with us is awful.

[Bris Red]

10 hours ago, frenchred said:

Not another topic from a happy clappers. I've followed this club for a long long time and I'm pissed right off with how we threw away a golden opportunity. But hey ho you keep applauding mediocracy it's what they want.

Spot on, blew a great chance this season. Bristol Citys stock at this level is rarely higher than it was in December of last year. In fact the last time it was that high was ten years ago. We should have taken the opportunity by the scruff of the neck. **** the right DNA and all Ashton’s other bollox, when will we get another shot at the big time, in another ten years? Probably knowing this club. Perennial bottlers  from the board down at BCFC 

[Bar BS3]

2 minutes ago, bris red said:

Spot on, blew a great chance this season. Bristol Citys stock at this level is rarely higher than it was in December of last year. In fact the last time it was that high was ten years ago. We should have taken the opportunity by the scruff of the neck. **** the right DNA and all Ashton’s other bollox, when will we get another shot at the big time, in another ten years? Probably knowing this club. Perennial bottlers  from the board down at BCFC 

I think you’ll find we get another shot at it from August..!

[Bris Red]

1 minute ago, Bar BS3 said:

I think you’ll find we get another shot at it from August..!

Fair play if you think next season we will be anywhere near the top six id like a go on whatever it is your smoking 

[Bar BS3]

1 minute ago, bris red said:

Fair play if you think next season we will be anywhere near the top six id like a go on whatever it is your smoking 

I didn’t think we would be at this point last season..!

[phantom]

I wonder if this site should have some kind of late night filter to stop drunken ramblings? Or posts from Sweden?

[Super]

2 minutes ago, phantom said:

I wonder if this site should have some kind of late night filter to stop drunken ramblings? Or posts from Sweden?

I would say close it from 10pm till 6am but get the feeling some start a lot earlier in the day!

[italian dave]

10 hours ago, EnglandsNo2 said:

We’re not a big club and will have to cash in our star assets for me cash in on Bryan flint and Reid now and use all that money to sign the brentford scouting team haha well some of it  tiny club don’t break the bank and play good football 

Would that be the Brentford who have a similar budget to us and the coaching team that's taken them from 5th to 9th to 10th the last 3 seasons?

[spudski]

30 minutes ago, bris red said:

Spot on, blew a great chance this season. Bristol Citys stock at this level is rarely higher than it was in December of last year. In fact the last time it was that high was ten years ago. We should have taken the opportunity by the scruff of the neck. **** the right DNA and all Ashton’s other bollox, when will we get another shot at the big time, in another ten years? Probably knowing this club. Perennial bottlers  from the board down at BCFC 

So go on then...what would you have done by 'taking that opportunity by the scruff of the neck'?

I presume from that statement you are thoroughly ofay with our budget, and inner workings of the club?

What would you have done to have guaranteed we stayed in the top 2?

[Frenchay Red]

Pedant alert! 

It's Au fait, not ofay! 

[Bris Red]

5 minutes ago, spudski said:

So go on then...what would you have done by 'taking that opportunity by the scruff of the neck'?

I presume from that statement you are thoroughly ofay with our budget, and inner workings of the club?

What would you have done to have guaranteed we stayed in the top 2?

Well i wouldnt have signed a French striker who hasn’t scored a goal all season for one.. i think anyone with half a brain cell could have predicted that wasn’t going to work out. Usually Signing players that know the league and will hit the ground running helps hence why our rivals improved and we haven’t. Hey ho though.

[spudski]

1 minute ago, bris red said:

Well i wouldnt have signed a French striker who hasn’t scored a goal all season for one.. i think anyone with half a brain celm could have predicted that wasn’t going to work out. Usually Signing players that know the league and will hit the ground running helps hence why our rivals improved and we haven’t. Hey ho though.

So what would have you done differently? Bearing in mind you obviously know the budget, who was available, who we approached, contracts etc...

4 minutes ago, Frenchay Red said:

Pedant alert! 

It's Au fait, not ofay! 

Indeed...I wondered why the spell check didn't do me on my spelling...apparently 'Ofay' is a real word...meaning..an offensive term for a white person, used by black people. Every day is a learning day :-)

[1960maaan]

OK ,if we somehow ignore what has gone on during the season, hadn't had to watch the football or simply had a time machine and jumped from kick off of the first game to the end of the season . Then totally agree ," top half championship football" is a decent outcome for the season.
However, whether we over achieved , played to our max or lucked out up to December we were in a great position. I don't necessarily agree we should have gone for it in Jan, and so "threw away a golden opportunity " maybe a little harsh, but . When we were in 2nd , almost universal thought was we shouldn't miss out on the Playoff's from here , and it was difficult to argue. Our Almost complete capitulation from Jan to April has mad it difficult to see the progress and appreciate the positives. We can't go on relying on getting 80% of our points in the first few months before going on one pathetic run after another.
If we had averaged 1.5 points a game steadily through the season, then I would say we've had a good season, there has been progress.
But we have (over the last 20+ games) averaged 1 point per game , over a season that would put us 18th , but relegated last year. 
It's not just getting the points, how/when we get the points colour perception. Same as in a 90 minute game, go 3-0 and draw 3-3 is shit, go 3-0 down and draw 3-3 you come out of the game delighted. 
We have to stop the horrendous losing runs, because you can't guarantee to have starts to the season we have had recently.
Not sure about the fall out in Dubai, not heard anything , but we were on a run of 1 win and 4 defeats before that (1 and 7 if you add the cup games) so not sure that was to blame.

So it's on to next season, do we worry if we don't start strongly? Or do we panic the first time we lose 2 on the spin? 
Ahhh the delights of being a football fan.

 

[Bris Red]

9 minutes ago, spudski said:

So what would have you done differently? Bearing in mind you obviously know the budget, who was available, who we approached, contracts etc...

Indeed...I wondered why the spell check didn't do me on my spelling...apparently 'Ofay' is a real word...meaning..an offensive term for a white person, used by black people. Every day is a learning day :-)

Why are you trying to defend the club all the time? Diony was an absolute woeful signing, obviously i dont know the inner workings of the club or the budget but if Diony was the best we could muster doesn’t that worry you? Especially with Reid going in the summer too?

[General Zod]

1 hour ago, Bar BS3 said:

I understand the frustration of those who can/choose to only see it like that, however, take a moment and let me refer to some good old Cliches to explain...

”it’s a marathon, not a sprint”

”nobody wins anything in December”

”it’s a long, hard season”

”it’s a very competitive division/one of the hardest/most competitive in the world”

so... yes, of course the second half has been disappointing, after the first half, but we can only really judge progress over a comparison of our most recent 46 game entire seasons. Since our return the the championship, this has been by far  our best of the three, overall. 

We are not the only team to suffer Jekyl & hide throughout the season. Some have done it in reverse and look better set for it, others have also tailed off the pace. Villa, Fulham, Millwall, Brentford all started slowly. 

Leeds, Ipswich, QPR?, Sheffield United, us, all started strongly. 

 

As far as I can see we have a stubborn manager who isn’t learning/holding hands up for his own mistakes.  A manager who has surrounded himself with inexperience and shown time and time again he doesn’t know how to get a team out of a poor run. A manager who only stumbled upon his best formation due to injuries and has shown us a very limited plan b.  We have a transfer policy that isn’t working but it’s failure is hidden behind a the words ‘long term and for the future’. We have bought players after analysing ‘DNA’ but by all accounts have ended up with ‘the wrong ‘DNA/mentality / not enough leaders’ 

We have given up on our football identity since Christmas and the season ticket debacle and official response has showed me what Bristol Sport really think about us as fans and how there is zero empathy with the sacrifice needed to be a supporter in the modern game.   I can’t argue that if we simply look and league positions, points and cup runs then it’s been a wonderful season.  However if this is what we are holding up as a true measure of success, next year will be interesting as I’d be surprised if we hit the same highs again.  

Will all those who this year have reasonable justification to point to our points gained and league position as a measure of a successful season be unhappy next year if we don’t show an improvement, I doubt it and the justification message from the club will point to the talent we’ve lost in the summer, the quality of relegated prem clubs and that a youngster or two has broke into the first team  The league points this year does not hide the fact that our form has been disastrous and we have been clueless from top to bottom since Christmas.

[spudski]

Just now, bris red said:

Why are you trying to defend the club all the time? Diony was an absolute woeful signing, obviously i dont know the inner workings of the club or the budget but if Diony was the best we could muster doesn’t that worry you? Especially with Reid going in the summer too?

I don't defend the club all the time. I'm just realistic. Fans bang on about 'We should have done this, should have done that'...but no one knows how much money we had in the budget. No one knows who we contacted. No one knows what pre contract agreements have been made. No one knows who's planned to come in and who's planned to leave. Only the club know what money we have available for both buying and wages.

Diony and Kent were both signings that haven't worked out, but were minimal risk financially.

Do you honestly believe if money was no object, and within FFP, that when sat second, with our injuries, SL wouldn't have put his hand in his pocket and gone for it, if the right players were available and willing to come?

It doesn't worry me...because the reality is, we are a small club financially compared to many others in the league, and we've only been up a short while, and we have bought in players to build for the future not the short term.

When fans say 'we blew it'...or 'we should have done this or that'...is ridiculous...as we just don't know the inner workings.

I get frustration...but some of the comments on here are so ridiculous and out of touch with reality.

It's tantamount to a young kid getting frustrated at Xmas, when all his friends get better presents than him, as his parents can't afford the same as they have, and have a budget for the family to adhere to for the financial stability of the family.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

11 hours ago, EnglandsNo2 said:

We would of all snapped ur hands of at being offered top half championship football , which we achieved well before the seasons end , yeah we had a cup run and long overdue too I was born 86 the 1st I can remember great well done Move on  . But our problem is as fans  we get to hyped up on the headlines and what other people think of our club . Personally I don’t give a hoot what others think we made strong progress in the league and Now have established ourselves firmly in a good position to push on and make the play offs next year , too many city fans are very short sighted take a step back look at the bigger picture we will get to the prem but it might take another 5 years but as  fans let get behind it and stay behind it because it could be a lot worse just look at the gas 

COYR 

So pray tell what progress has been achieved since the start of the year of our lord 2018?

[Jack Dawe]

1 hour ago, italian dave said:

Would that be the Brentford who have a similar budget to us and the coaching team that's taken them from 5th to 9th to 10th the last 3 seasons?

No it wouldn't. It would be the scouting team, and who wouldn't take Brentford's over our lot?

[General Zod]

29 minutes ago, spudski said:

So go on then...what would you have done by 'taking that opportunity by the scruff of the neck'?

I presume from that statement you are thoroughly ofay with our budget, and inner workings of the club?

What would you have done to have guaranteed we stayed in the top 2?

I think a guaranteed top two is stretching it but it wouldn’t have taken much success in the window to guarantee a playoff spot as we were so far clear.

Unfortunately I don’t think the club gave a thought about going for it during the window.  We are stubbornly sticking to our long term plan of baby steps towards promotion when we were in a great place to gamble on an opportunity which may not present itself again for years.  Walsh was bought as another one for the future, Diony was a try before you buy and neither was bought for instant impact.  Kent was brought in for our promotion push but turned out to be pants.

The trouble I have with this long term plan is there’s no visible timescale and accountability attached to it so there’s a danger it just gets used to justify poor performance and breeds apathy all over the club.  Do we want promotion or is Bristol Sport/SL just happy to have an established  championship team that is almost breaking even and not draining the Lansdown millions each year?  Are they using the ‘long term’ philosophy to hide what the clubs ambition is really about?

 

[Ska Junkie]

12 hours ago, EnglandsNo2 said:

We would of all snapped ur hands of at being offered top half championship football , which we achieved well before the seasons end , yeah we had a cup run and long overdue too I was born 86 the 1st I can remember great well done Move on  . But our problem is as fans  we get to hyped up on the headlines and what other people think of our club . Personally I don’t give a hoot what others think we made strong progress in the league and Now have established ourselves firmly in a good position to push on and make the play offs next year , too many city fans are very short sighted take a step back look at the bigger picture we will get to the prem but it might take another 5 years but as  fans let get behind it and stay behind it because it could be a lot worse just look at the gas 

COYR 

Fair comment EnglandsNo2 but given where we were post Xmas and the dire form since, surely you can understand why some of us are a tad flat? 

You are correct in that, if offered 10th at the start of the season, I would have been more than happy to have taken that but when you're 2nd at Xmas, playing great stuff, the last 4 months have been a real disappointment. I'm sure you would agree with that? 

As I've said on another thread, if it were the other way around (awful pre Xmas, superb afterwards), we wouldn't feel the same but we were going like a train and have ballsed it up, hence the flat feeling I guess.

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, bris red said:

Why are you trying to defend the club all the time? Diony was an absolute woeful signing, obviously i dont know the inner workings of the club or the budget but if Diony was the best we could muster doesn’t that worry you? Especially with Reid going in the summer too?

The most worrying part is that we almost made Diony our record signing in the summer but ' lost out ' to St Etienne.