Zak Vyner

[screech]

11 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Re Taylor Moor

IMHO - A £1.5m  pound signing should be standing out a mile at Cheltenham , even at 20 ; his obvious potential at least should be very apparent,

Is he ?

Not from what I’ve seen or read

Would we be looking at him , right now, for £1,5m if he’d joined Cheltenham from Lens ?

I doubt it

Lets hope he suddenly kicks on

I'm starting to wonder if SL has a secret bank account where he funnels millions of dirty money into and has asked LJ to get rid of it quickly, and they called it the "one for the future" account.

It would explain the vast majority of our business in the market. 

He's been allowed to overspend vasts sums of money on crap and future crap, the only talent coming through is what Tinnion has provided him. 

[nebristolred]

11 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Re Taylor Moor

IMHO - A £1.5m  pound signing should be standing out a mile at Cheltenham , even at 20 ; his obvious potential at least should be very apparent,

Is he ?

Not from what I’ve seen or read

Would we be looking at him , right now, for £1,5m if he’d joined Cheltenham from Lens ?

I doubt it

Lets hope he suddenly kicks on

Bobby Reid probably was in a similar state at age 20 - looking back he was worth a £1.5m investment. Too soon to be judging imo.

[MC RISK77]

8 minutes ago, screech said:

I'm starting to wonder if SL has a secret bank account where he funnels millions of dirty money into and has asked LJ to get rid of it quickly, and they called it the "one for the future" account.

It would explain the vast majority of our business in the market. 

He's been allowed to overspend vasts sums of money on crap and future crap, the only talent coming through is what Tinnion has provided him. 

If SL needs someone proficient to spend vast sums of money on crap he can borrow my missus if he prefers!

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 hour ago, nebristolred said:

Bobby Reid probably was in a similar state at age 20 - looking back he was worth a £1.5m investment. Too soon to be judging imo.

Fair point of. Course but you could aim that remark about any 20yr old who likes like he may not come through

Seems to have a decent down to earth attitude and prepared to go out on loan , and tough it out , which is great,  and a reason I hope he does indeed  come through

 

As I say the simplest guide is would you / we be looking at Taylor Moore as a potential ‘development’  signing , especiallly at £1.5 m if we hadn’t already bought him (If he’d come through at or been signed by Cheltenham)

Or If I gave you £1.5m to go out & spend on a young centre back,even one to develop , do you think you’d come back with TM ?

 

[Red Army 75]

Scunthorpe v Argyle on sky sports 1 tonight.  Chance to see ZV tonight. Worth a watch 

[Port Said Red]

14 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Re Taylor Moor

IMHO - A £1.5m  pound signing should be standing out a mile at Cheltenham , even at 20 ; his obvious potential at least should be very apparent,

Is he ?

Not from what I’ve seen or read

Would we be looking at him , right now, for £1,5m if he’d joined Cheltenham from Lens ?

I doubt it

Lets hope he suddenly kicks on

 

2 hours ago, screech said:

I'm starting to wonder if SL has a secret bank account where he funnels millions of dirty money into and has asked LJ to get rid of it quickly, and they called it the "one for the future" account.

It would explain the vast majority of our business in the market. 

He's been allowed to overspend vasts sums of money on crap and future crap, the only talent coming through is what Tinnion has provided him. 

 

40 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Fair point of. Course but you could aim that remark about any 20yr old who likes like he may not come through

Seems to have a decent down to earth attitude and prepared to go out on loan , and tough it out , which is great,  and a reason I hope he does indeed  come through

 

As I say the simplest guide is would you / we be looking at Taylor Moore as a potential ‘development’  signing , especiallly at £1.5 m if we hadn’t already bought him (If he’d come through at or been signed by Cheltenham)

Or If I gave you £1.5m to go out & spend on a young centre back,even one to develop , do you think you’d come back with TM ?

 

The lad has represented England at U17 18 19  and 20 and captained the U19's. He has had good experience of playing in Europe too,  he clearly has something and is hardly a "hopeful punt"  of a purchase. 

On the Plymouth forum a few describe Vyner as a top centre back and terrible right back, I don't know where TM has been playing for Cheltenham, but maybe he is having the same problem? 

[BobBobSuperBob]

14 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

The lad has represented England at U17 18 19  and 20 and captained the U19's. He has had good experience of playing in Europe too,  he clearly has something and is hardly a "hopeful punt"  of a purchase. 

On the Plymouth forum a few describe Vyner as a top centre back and terrible right back, I don't know where TM has been playing for Cheltenham, but maybe he is having the same problem? 

That’s a fair comment / point

Have tbh I don’t hold much weight on the England U17 / 18s etc purely because of the incredible percentage of those players that hit a wall or drop away

There was a mini documentary on a while back about one of our sides that represented us at the U18 World Cup and 4 years on there were only two who were still pros !!!!!

It May  sound harsh but IMHO you have to ignore what he did or looked like at 16 / 17 and look and see what you’ve  got now and the ability and projection/ likelihood / capabilityof progression

I still maintain his ‘class’ that he has , if he has (Which IMHO we should expect as a £1.5 m 18/19 yr old purchase) should still be showing in L2  even if inconsistently -or only in flashes - Not saying he should walk away with MOM every week but the signs should be there )

In comparison - Interesting reading some Plymouth fans comments re Vyner (Accept they are only fans comments but appear to be regular) about Vyner looking / showing ‘class” - That’s in L1 and gives me some real hope about Zak who again I’ve seen very limited of

TM does appear to have a decent attitude which will give him a chance 

In the limited I’ve seen of him he may be caught in between RB/Ch as not athletic enough as RB but not physical enough to be a CH

I’m not at all convinced but others (eg Dave Fevs  as an ex centre half does)  see something in him

Maybe a footballing / second centre half ?

 

 

 

[cidered abroad]

Taylor Moore could end up as a defensive midfielder? 

[iamalagerdrinker]

I'm off to see him tonight against Scunny. 

[alexukhc]

3 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

Taylor Moore could end up as a defensive midfielder? 

Always think of him of Eric Dier

[Davefevs]

18 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Re Taylor Moor

IMHO - A £1.5m  pound signing should be standing out a mile at Cheltenham , even at 20 ; his obvious potential at least should be very apparent,

Is he ?

Not from what I’ve seen or read

Would we be looking at him , right now, for £1,5m if he’d joined Cheltenham from Lens ?

I doubt it

Lets hope he suddenly kicks on

 

4 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Fair point of. Course but you could aim that remark about any 20yr old who likes like he may not come through

Seems to have a decent down to earth attitude and prepared to go out on loan , and tough it out , which is great,  and a reason I hope he does indeed  come through

 

As I say the simplest guide is would you / we be looking at Taylor Moore as a potential ‘development’  signing , especiallly at £1.5 m if we hadn’t already bought him (If he’d come through at or been signed by Cheltenham)

Or If I gave you £1.5m to go out & spend on a young centre back,even one to develop , do you think you’d come back with TM ?

 

Bob - certainly not wrong to raise questions.

My View FWIW - I think he’d have been better off playing with better players.  He did his "men’s football" last season, he’d have been better getting another League 1 loan than dropping down to Lg2.  If that was all we could get, then I’d have politely refused (sorry, Dad!), and let him carry on his development alongside Baker, Flint, Wright.  He’d have probably got some cup game experience, and also been cover for the right side of ourvdefence post-Xmas.

I remember someone saying that when Gerry Sweeney (fine full-back) went to York (?) he found that playing with inferior players made him look stupid.  He was used to having Taunton and Gow infront / inside him, to knock 10yard passes to, whereas at York, they ran away from him, or didn’t create the right angle.

From the little I’ve seen of Moore, I think there’s a Championship CB in there. Of course, seeing him more often might confirm or dismiss that.  He’s 20, CBs develop later.  Look at Flint for example!

You are quite right to challenge the fee paid, but I guess England u19 captain carries a £sign.

A big summer for him.

1 hour ago, iamalagerdrinker said:

I'm off to see him tonight against Scunny. 

Would be good if you could report back....will try and watch on tv, but it’s not always the best view.

[JoeAman08]

20 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

Bob - certainly not wrong to raise questions.

My View FWIW - I think he’d have been better off playing with better players.  He did his "men’s football" last season, he’d have been better getting another League 1 loan than dropping down to Lg2.  If that was all we could get, then I’d have politely refused (sorry, Dad!), and let him carry on his development alongside Baker, Flint, Wright.  He’d have probably got some cup game experience, and also been cover for the right side of ourvdefence post-Xmas.

I remember someone saying that when Gerry Sweeney (fine full-back) went to York (?) he found that playing with inferior players made him look stupid.  He was used to having Taunton and Gow infront / inside him, to knock 10yard passes to, whereas at York, they ran away from him, or didn’t create the right angle.

From the little I’ve seen of Moore, I think there’s a Championship CB in there. Of course, seeing him more often might confirm or dismiss that.  He’s 20, CBs develop later.  Look at Flint for example!

You are quite right to challenge the fee paid, but I guess England u19 captain carries a £sign.

A big summer for him.

Would be good if you could report back....will try and watch on tv, but it’s not always the best view.

I am thinking it reading and then you say it.  You could argue Taylor Moore might look more at home as a championship RB. Where his positioning and pace will be used more rather than the sheer need for physicality. Of course he needs to be more physical(and perhaps that was the thinking loaning him to L2?) but that will come with age. He is no RB and I have seen him play there the most. Impressed the most at CB for me. 

Though I get the questions for the outlay. Which is why it baffled me we did the 3 year deal thing. Get him on 5 and let him develop. Maybe the expiring contract puts pressure on him to perform but don’t think city can just release a 2m outlay especially when only 20. Get him a 4 year deal and a loan where he will play CB for a top team in L1. Not easy but we will never learn about him as a L2 RB. 

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

I am thinking it reading and then you say it.  You could argue Taylor Moore might look more at home as a championship RB. Where his positioning and pace will be used more rather than the sheer need for physicality. Of course he needs to be more physical(and perhaps that was the thinking loaning him to L2?) but that will come with age. He is no RB and I have seen him play there the most. Impressed the most at CB for me. 

Though I get the questions for the outlay. Which is why it baffled me we did the 3 year deal thing. Get him on 5 and let him develop. Maybe the expiring contract puts pressure on him to perform but don’t think city can just release a 2m outlay especially when only 20. Get him a 4 year deal and a loan where he will play CB for a top team in L1. Not easy but we will never learn about him as a L2 RB. 

Exactly the bit in bold.

[reddoh]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

 

Bob - certainly not wrong to raise questions.

My View FWIW - I think he’d have been better off playing with better players.  He did his "men’s football" last season, he’d have been better getting another League 1 loan than dropping down to Lg2.  If that was all we could get, then I’d have politely refused (sorry, Dad!), and let him carry on his development alongside Baker, Flint, Wright.  He’d have probably got some cup game experience, and also been cover for the right side of ourvdefence post-Xmas.

I remember someone saying that when Gerry Sweeney (fine full-back) went to York (?) he found that playing with inferior players made him look stupid.  He was used to having Taunton and Gow infront / inside him, to knock 10yard passes to, whereas at York, they ran away from him, or didn’t create the right angle.

From the little I’ve seen of Moore, I think there’s a Championship CB in there. Of course, seeing him more often might confirm or dismiss that.  He’s 20, CBs develop later.  Look at Flint for example!

You are quite right to challenge the fee paid, but I guess England u19 captain carries a £sign.

A big summer for him.

Would be good if you could report back....will try and watch on tv, but it’s not always the best view.

Taunton is quite a big town but Gerry was immense. 

[iamalagerdrinker]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

 

Bob - certainly not wrong to raise questions.

My View FWIW - I think he’d have been better off playing with better players.  He did his "men’s football" last season, he’d have been better getting another League 1 loan than dropping down to Lg2.  If that was all we could get, then I’d have politely refused (sorry, Dad!), and let him carry on his development alongside Baker, Flint, Wright.  He’d have probably got some cup game experience, and also been cover for the right side of ourvdefence post-Xmas.

I remember someone saying that when Gerry Sweeney (fine full-back) went to York (?) he found that playing with inferior players made him look stupid.  He was used to having Taunton and Gow infront / inside him, to knock 10yard passes to, whereas at York, they ran away from him, or didn’t create the right angle.

From the little I’ve seen of Moore, I think there’s a Championship CB in there. Of course, seeing him more often might confirm or dismiss that.  He’s 20, CBs develop later.  Look at Flint for example!

You are quite right to challenge the fee paid, but I guess England u19 captain carries a £sign.

A big summer for him.

Would be good if you could report back....will try and watch on tv, but it’s not always the best view.

I won't lie I left in the 80th minute to beat traffic and get a McDonalds. His positioning was brilliant very poor Plymouth performance. He had a few vital clearances but that wasn't about it unfortunately. Everybody around me who knew I supportted City was very complementary about us and was really happy I came to see him.  

[1960maaan]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

From the little I’ve seen of Moore, I think there’s a Championship CB in there. Of course, seeing him more often might confirm or dismiss that.  He’s 20, CBs develop later.  Look at Flint for example!

I said when he first joined, he just looked too keen. Had a few runs as sub at RB/WB and he tended to give away free kicks, just got too close and made it easy for the forwards. 
Totally agree about the loan as well. I would imagine he'll have a pre-season with us, LJ can have a look, big price tag but City must have seen something , and as has been said still very young .

[cidercity1987]

Get Vyner back and in the team for Sunday. Plymouth don't need him now their play off push is effectively over.

[JasonM88]

13 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Get Vyner back and in the team for Sunday. Plymouth don't need him now their play off push is effectively over.

Can’t do that 

[Shtanley]

Some reckon TM’s attitude/work rate is questionable which is interesting as he always seemed a nice honest lad in interviews.

I don’t rate him much at either CB nor RB really. Vyner clearly a better CB and I think we should be buying a RB in the summer. He could suddenly shock us all but I’m personally not holding my breath after a mixed loan in league 2 where Joe Morrell has been the real revelation. 

[SuperRed]

I think we got duped with Taylor Moore. Scouts from pretty much every Premier League and Championship club would have been watching whilst he was with the England U19 side, but he ended up here...

[BobBobSuperBob]

7 minutes ago, SuperRed said:

I think we got duped with Taylor Moore. Scouts from pretty much every Premier League and Championship club would have been watching whilst he was with the England U19 side, but he ended up here...