Is Lee Johnson the right man for the job?

[Alan Dicks]

1 minute ago, Robbored said:

He got half the season right. Signs of progress.

What happened to the other half?

Had we started poorly and ended on a great run i would have hope and optimism for next season, as it stands now we are probably going to be weaker next season without several of our better players.

It's going to be Johnsons job to replace those players, now based on some of his previous signings it doesnt fill me with much joy

[BS3_RED]

6 minutes ago, Robbored said:

He got half the season right. Signs of progress.

The other half though was awful and life has always been a case of "what have you done for me lately" and not " what did you do for me 6 months ago"

[reddogkev]

9 hours ago, Sweeneys Penalties said:

with the best finish we've had to a season for years the answer is obvious. Sack the bloke who got us there. I'm amazed and appalled all at the same time. With fans like that, its no wonder this club has achieved the grand total of **** all in its entire history.

It's not been consistent, but consistency can be worked on. To fire the bloke who guided City through their best season for donkeys years is absolutely mad. A vocal few apparently want just that.

Little bit extreme, there's been no crude mention of sacking LJ on here, just a discussion about his general ability as a manager.  Yes, some fans would like to see Lee move on, which as you know isn't because 10th is a bad finish, it's because of the dire final 4 months of the season and the apparent inability to arrest this bizarre slump.

Personally, I see LJ as a top coach, but now have questions over his position as the main man in charge.

[old_eastender]

10 hours ago, reddogkev said:

Forget WBA, what about us?  It pains me to say this, because I like and respect Lee and want him to succeed, but our remarkable demise since the beginning of January has affected my view of LJ.  I appreciate that he has moulded us into a steady Championship team, but am seriously concerned that he couldn't find a way to recover the form (that I give him credit for in respect to the first part of the season) and lost everything good we had created. 

I look at him now and don't see a manager with the ability to push City on.  As sad as it sounds, if he left in the summer, I would partially be relieved as can see us struggling from the off next season, especially if the incredible form of Reid leads to his sale.

Despite this, I don't expect and don't call for the club to oust Lee Johnson, not on the back of a decent 10th place finished, but just can't shake this feeling of failure.  If we don't get off to a quick start again next season, will we be able to prevent another losing sequence and a relegation battle?

This sounds very pessimistic, but after the last 4 months, it's hard not to feel so bloody negative and downbeat!

How many out there at the moment still have confidence in Lee to deliver the goods in the Championship?

Some do have a blind faith in LJ, tbh I thought you were one of them!  

I do understand those who say a top 11 finish is real progress from last season and you have to judge it on the season as a whole, but the collapse from 2nd place has been calamitous. It's not just the poor results, it's truly woeful performances as bad as any since our return to the championship. I think yesterday was the 3rd in recent games where we have not managed a single shot on target ffs. When it starts going wrong LJ seems to struggle to put in right, bizarre subs, ignoring some players (e.g. Eliasson) whilst picking others seemingly regardless of their form (e.g. Pato), really poor game management (e.g. Sunderland/Leeds/Hull). 

Throw in the likelihood of losing Reid, Flint & Bryan combined with our really poor dealings in the Jan window, and it's hard to have any confidence for next season with LJ still in charge.

 

 

[Beni71]

10 hours ago, Davefevs said:

The worry for me is that this run in 2018 has seen us play some awful football.  Is it just me that thought that even in last year’s run, we played some good stuff....but we had some bad luck and individual mistakes.

Today from what I saw (60 minutes) was no different to many away games since Hull away (which perversely we won, as we did v Sheffield Utd).  The only away game I’ve seen in that run where I thought we played well was Leeds.  We just fell apart final 20-25, but we played some good stuff that day.

I really don’t know what to think.

I know none of us are pro coaches, and with the odd exception (MM0, none of us are ex-pros either, but I can’t get my head around the decisions that appear to me (and others on here who talk a lot of sense) to be completely baffling, or over-complicated.

I actually think he’s created an unbalanced squad in certain areas.  I’ll give him a pass on injuries, but that kinda covers my point about imbalance.  That makes it difficult for him to make like-for-like subs, just to create freshness, it means change and then he goes overboard by complicating it by trying to compensate for the player just brought on.

Right Back - I don’t need to elaborate here, but we lacked cover of sufficient quality once Pisano got injured and Wright (a CB) starting struggling with niggles that started post-Xmas.

Wide Midfielders - he has a system that doesn’t involve wingers (COD imho has been converted into and industrious wide midfielder, albeit more flair than Brownhill), yet signs Eliasson and then Kent on loan

Central Midfielder - where is the player to challenge Pack and Smith (apart from the one who needs to play RM!).  Just as well they have been good in the main.

Strikers - Diedhiou and Reid, no issues, but Djúric was bought, when LJ doesn’t want to play a direct / long ball game.  Can go on for ever about Woodrow, Taylor, Hinds, etc.

A lot of work is needed over the summer.  He is a bright coach, but I have doubts he is a bright manager.

As always some good points Dave. I think at times his lack of experience at this level shows and we need to remember he’s up against some coaches/managers with more experience than him. For a relative novice he has done pretty well with a significantly smaller budget than the majority of the division. 

when things were going well and we were getting good TV coverage on SKY, some of the pundits were saying “great football but they always give you a chance in the way they play”. I don’t know if it’s those comments that have made up think about style and approach and along the way we’ve got a little lost in between two styles.

Agree on the midfield, to me it’s our problem area. I think Smith has reached his level and it needs something different in there and may be Brownhill is that player. 

As you said a big summer ahead.

[Sweeneys Penalties]

18 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

Little bit extreme, there's been no crude mention of sacking LJ on here, just a discussion about his general ability as a manager.  Yes, some fans would like to see Lee move on, which as you know isn't because 10th is a bad finish, it's because of the dire final 4 months of the season and the apparent inability to arrest this bizarre slump.

Personally, I see LJ as a top coach, but now have questions over his position as the main man in charge.

there's been a "get rid of him" vocal element since the day he joined (if not before).

[KingLear]

Sometimes I think it's useful to look outside of your own fan base to get a more balanced viewpoint as we as fans (of every club) can get quite blinkered and refuse to look beyond our own opinions.

So I recently put it to my Blackburn supporting mate (who had money on us to get relegated at the start of the season) that some fans are calling for LJ to be sacked after the second half of the season.

His reaction was 'you're joking?!?'.

I'm not saying he's right or wrong, but it's an interesting thought. Are some of us mad for wanting LJ out? Have expectations been raised too far after 2017 and the cup run? Are we expecting too much too soon? 

My personal opinion is, yes, to all 3 questions above. 

[Redrascal2]

10 hours ago, red panda said:

The thing with LJ is that this is still very early in his career.  He's still learning, gaining experience and hopefully improving.  Lots of people comment on his ability as if you're either a good manager or a bad manager, and nothing will ever change.  LJ could become the next Alex Ferguson, or he could reach a certain level and not be able to go any further.  We just don't know.

He has clearly got the motivation, the work ethic and the desire to succeed.  The big question, which only time will tell (and it's far too early for any of us to know) is how much he'll improve.  Personally, I would love him to carry on learning and get better and better with us.  Only time will tell.

Surely the whole issue with Johnson is that he does not appear to learn. This latest horrendous run of form with his inability to stop it. Money wasted on players he never played or give a chance to. Substitutions that make no sense and a constant diet of spin and bull. Nothing has changed from when he started.

[Son of Fred]

10 hours ago, Davefevs said:

The worry for me is that this run in 2018 has seen us play some awful football.  Is it just me that thought that even in last year’s run, we played some good stuff....but we had some bad luck and individual mistakes.

Today from what I saw (60 minutes) was no different to many away games since Hull away (which perversely we won, as we did v Sheffield Utd).  The only away game I’ve seen in that run where I thought we played well was Leeds.  We just fell apart final 20-25, but we played some good stuff that day.

I really don’t know what to think.

I know none of us are pro coaches, and with the odd exception (MM0, none of us are ex-pros either, but I can’t get my head around the decisions that appear to me (and others on here who talk a lot of sense) to be completely baffling, or over-complicated.

I actually think he’s created an unbalanced squad in certain areas.  I’ll give him a pass on injuries, but that kinda covers my point about imbalance.  That makes it difficult for him to make like-for-like subs, just to create freshness, it means change and then he goes overboard by complicating it by trying to compensate for the player just brought on.

Right Back - I don’t need to elaborate here, but we lacked cover of sufficient quality once Pisano got injured and Wright (a CB) starting struggling with niggles that started post-Xmas.

Wide Midfielders - he has a system that doesn’t involve wingers (COD imho has been converted into and industrious wide midfielder, albeit more flair than Brownhill), yet signs Eliasson and then Kent on loan

Central Midfielder - where is the player to challenge Pack and Smith (apart from the one who needs to play RM!).  Just as well they have been good in the main.

Strikers - Diedhiou and Reid, no issues, but Djúric was bought, when LJ doesn’t want to play a direct / long ball game.  Can go on for ever about Woodrow, Taylor, Hinds, etc.

A lot of work is needed over the summer.  He is a bright coach, but I have doubts he is a bright manager.

Dave,after January's "efforts" I'm suffering pre-summer window flatulance already!!

[Fordy62]

2 minutes ago, KingLear said:

Sometimes I think it's useful to look outside of your own fan base to get a more balanced viewpoint as we as fans (of every club) can get quite blinkered and refuse to look beyond our own opinions.

So I recently put it to my Blackburn supporting mate (who had money on us to get relegated at the start of the season) that some fans are calling for LJ to be sacked after the second half of the season.

His reaction was 'you're joking?!?'.

I'm not saying he's right or wrong, but it's an interesting thought. Are some of us mad for wanting LJ out? Have expectations been raised too far after 2017 and the cup run? Are we expecting too much too soon? 

My personal opinion is, yes, to all 3 questions above. 

Your Blackburn mate won’t be quite as acutely aware of our season as we are. 

I doubt he’d know we’ve got 20 points from 21 games, I doubt he’d know about the bizarre subs or numerous games without a shot on target. He wouldn’t know about the shit football and the fact that we were previously four million points ahead of Millwall. 

The cup run and table topping antics were well publicised and they are what your mate remembers. So it’s understandable that he doesn’t really understand. 

[KingLear]

3 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Your Blackburn mate won’t be quite as acutely aware of our season as we are. 

I doubt he’d know we’ve got 20 points from 21 games, I doubt he’d know about the bizarre subs or numerous games without a shot on target. He wouldn’t know about the shit football and the fact that we were previously four million points ahead of Millwall. 

The cup run and table topping antics were well publicised and they are what your mate remembers. So it’s understandable that he doesn’t really understand. 

Fair points, and you are of course correct that he won't have followed it as closely. Although we do discuss football a lot seeing as we work together. I've been to a couple of Blackburn games this season and he's been to a couple of City. So the Cup run and table topping antics are not all that he remembers.

But you can make that argument about any club in the world, I'm sure you don't follow every clubs fortunes in detail but can still put together an opinion on whether they're correct or not to sack their manager, yes?

Anyway I'm just making a point about an unbiased football opinion outside our own fan base for comparison.

[DT The Optimist]

And I would add there is not a lot of evidence the fan base do want him out. Contributors on the forum do not necessarily reflect the views of the fan  base.  

I am critical of current form for 4 months, so many games without  a shot on goal, dire etc, 

Him and MA created it, let them fix it (jan and all that)   Hiring and firing worthless merry go round 

[Dolman Block B]

Best not take this form since 30th Dec into the new season

 

LLLLLDLWLDDDLWLDWDLLWLDD

[glastonred]

Yes!

[paulcityfan]

47 minutes ago, glastonred said:

Yes!

No

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Robert the bruce said:

Dave,after January's "efforts" I'm suffering pre-summer window flatulance already!!

I hope it’s just flatulence and no follow through ensues.

[City fan 1982]

No

[Sweeneys Penalties]

3 hours ago, KingLear said:

Sometimes I think it's useful to look outside of your own fan base to get a more balanced viewpoint as we as fans (of every club) can get quite blinkered and refuse to look beyond our own opinions.

So I recently put it to my Blackburn supporting mate (who had money on us to get relegated at the start of the season) that some fans are calling for LJ to be sacked after the second half of the season.

His reaction was 'you're joking?!?'.

I'm not saying he's right or wrong, but it's an interesting thought. Are some of us mad for wanting LJ out? Have expectations been raised too far after 2017 and the cup run? Are we expecting too much too soon? 

My personal opinion is, yes, to all 3 questions above. 

I have a colleague who was once on Derby's books as a player. I asked him the same question. Needless to say he was very surprised about the "anti LJ brigade and asked in all honesty where we may get a better manager. I struggle for an answer. If LJ gets another role sometime soon I wish him all the best. Typical of recent turns of events, but if it was WBA and he led em to promotion there are still a number on here professing their hatred of him. 

[kiwicolin]

Yes. At this point in time, he is the right manager for us. 

[Davefevs]

12 minutes ago, kiwicolin said:

Yes. At this point in time, he is the right manager for us. 

Splinters up my arse, but if push came to shove, its a yes....but boy, has he got some learning to do.  

[Top Robin]

He has had time to assemble his own squad of players and that includes some really poor signings who are now on the wage bill and not playing or contributing.

With the exception on Bobby and Lloyd Kelly players under Lee do not improve or develop.......in fact many have got worse.

He has tinkered with every possible team choice and shape to try and in a desperate attempt to improve things but without success.

Some of his tactical decisions including substitutions have been bizarre and not improved things, in fact probably have led to defeats or leads being thrown away in some instances.

He cannot seem to motivate players anymore especially for some of the more important promotion chasing games of the last 4 months.

Time for him to move on and for us to bring in a 'proper' manager.

 

 

[Gert Mare]

At times this season our football was majestic.....then there was Brentford at home which was one of the worst games ever at home. 

Plan B seems to be route one to the big man.

When we bust we bust big time.

LJ has had regular capitulations, not just at City, but at Barnsley and Oldham too.

 I can’t see him ever being the man to take City up and I think his practice doesn’t match his theory skills.

He will be here next season. I hope he can find a way to succeed, but the DNA needs working on!

At times we are pathetically weak and there are no leaders on that pitch.

[Nogbad the Bad]

4 hours ago, KingLear said:

Fair points, and you are of course correct that he won't have followed it as closely. Although we do discuss football a lot seeing as we work together. I've been to a couple of Blackburn games this season and he's been to a couple of City. So the Cup run and table topping antics are not all that he remembers.

But you can make that argument about any club in the world, I'm sure you don't follow every clubs fortunes in detail but can still put together an opinion on whether they're correct or not to sack their manager, yes?

Anyway I'm just making a point about an unbiased football opinion outside our own fan base for comparison.

I doubt he talks to anyone else about Bristol City so his opinion is very likely to be affected by your own and be biased in that direction imo.

[Der no.2]

44 minutes ago, Cheesleysmate said:

At times this season our football was majestic.....then there was Brentford at home which was one of the worst games ever at home. 

Plan B seems to be route one to the big man.

When we bust we bust big time.

LJ has had regular capitulations, not just at City, but at Barnsley and Oldham too.

 I can’t see him ever being the man to take City up and I think his practice doesn’t match his theory skills.

He will be here next season. I hope he can find a way to succeed, but the DNA needs working on!

At times we are pathetically weak and there are no leaders on that pitch.

Leaders on the pitch need leaders off the pitch.

[numbeast]

I still think Lee Johnson will improve next season just as he has this year. Will he get us promoted next season, probably not. But then again there will be 21 other clubs that won't go up either. We are building a club that wants to be prepared for promotion and that takes time.

At the start of the season I posted that I feared losing the likes of Reid O'Dowda and Brownhill. Many of the replies told me I lacked ambition and that the "sign em  low sell em high" was the right way to go about building for the future. Now I notice many of those who disagreed with me are now worried about losing them. One thing for sure if Bobby Reid Joe Bryan or aby other young (ish) player is sold it will be for decent money.

It's right Lee Johnson should shoulder a large percentage of the blame for our form since Christmas but so should the squad. To my way of thinking the core of the squad were playing like world beaters from the off. They beat 4 Premier League teams including a strong Man Utd team, and we're playing fantastic football week in week out.

The question is were they playing at a level they couldn't keep up for a whole season or did they believe their own publicity thinking they should win every game. If it's the former then we are where we should be, but if it's the latter then there is no excuse for the spineless gutless dross we've seen since losing to Man City. I think it was the latter, summed up by the captain Bailey Wright after being cheered off when subbed. "It wasn't helpful" Good God could he not see he was useless? Don't get me wrong he had been very good most of the season especially playing out of position but that game he couldn't hit a cows butt with a banjo. It's time the players stood up an took responsibility.

The last point I'd like to make is the board/Steve Lansdown. When Gary Johnson got us to the playoffs we failed to strengthen in January this January it's a case of de ja vue. This calls into question our clubs ambition. It wasn't helped by Mark Ashton saying we weren't targeting promotion this season, a comment I think many took out of context.

So in answer to the question, yes I think he is the right man but he, along with the players and the board, must step up. If any of these groups don't push on then we'll go backward and unlike the players or the board (where I think much responsibility lays)Lee Johnson will pay with his job.

 

[havanatopia]

16 hours ago, Alan Dicks said:

This was the season where we could truely judge Johnson.

In my opinion nothing has changed, he has failed to shake off the good runs bad runs good runs bad runs, it's a cycle that has happened over and over for him at three different clubs.

If he is an up and coming manager, let him now move on and proove it with someone else i say.

Who did you have in mind? Someone like Gillingham where he finds his level? A phoenix club like Sunderland or a bounce backer like WBA? 

[steviestevieneville]

7 hours ago, Robbored said:

He got half the season right. Signs of progress.

But got half of it wrong , plus signings made when in a strong position were nothing short of terrible . Long runs of poor form here 2 seasons on the trot and at Barnsley . If you’re not worried about that alone then somethings wrong. 

[steviestevieneville]

2 hours ago, Cheesleysmate said:

At times this season our football was majestic.....then there was Brentford at home which was one of the worst games ever at home. 

Plan B seems to be route one to the big man.

When we bust we bust big time.

LJ has had regular capitulations, not just at City, but at Barnsley and Oldham too.

 I can’t see him ever being the man to take City up and I think his practice doesn’t match his theory skills.

He will be here next season. I hope he can find a way to succeed, but the DNA needs working on!

At times we are pathetically weak and there are no leaders on that pitch.

100% plus recruitment seriously needs questioning . We don’t pay massive wages so our scouting has to be much better than it is. Overall signings have been poor apart from O’dowda,  Brownhill, baker (massively out of form but a decent defender) and wright . Walsh and elliasson  future prospects. The spine of the side was here years ago 

[Sweeneys Penalties]

2 hours ago, Top Robin said:

He has had time to assemble his own squad of players and that includes some really poor signings who are now on the wage bill and not playing or contributing.

With the exception on Bobby and Lloyd Kelly players under Lee do not improve or develop.......in fact many have got worse.

He has tinkered with every possible team choice and shape to try and in a desperate attempt to improve things but without success.

Some of his tactical decisions including substitutions have been bizarre and not improved things, in fact probably have led to defeats or leads being thrown away in some instances.

He cannot seem to motivate players anymore especially for some of the more important promotion chasing games of the last 4 months.

Time for him to move on and for us to bring in a 'proper' manager.

 

 

sorry. I dont get this "motivated" business. I go to work, I have to motivate myself. No one is gonna do it for me. If I had to pull on a City shirt, I'd be motivated already. I wouldn't need someone whispering words of advice like "attack" or "pass the ball" in my earole. I'd already know that. Tactically there are question marks, but just because I don't understand it, it doesn't mean it doesn't make perfect sense to those in the know.

 

[Curr Avon]

8 hours ago, Robbored said:

He got half the season right. Signs of progress.

Yup. There's nothing like surgery once the anesthetic has worn off.