Is Lee Johnson the right man for the job?

[ChippenhamRed]

3 hours ago, reddogkev said:

Feel the same, Scotty has actually annoyed me with that tweet!  We were fighting for promotion until we gave up against Villa, held our hands up and said we are just too tired.

Ever since then there's not been an ounce of fight in the league.  Cardiff away for example was the worst performance I've ever seen from City.

 

3 hours ago, Frenchay Red said:

Thought we topped that at Burton!

I see your Burton and raise you a Brentford.

[ChippenhamRed]

9 hours ago, havanatopia said:

I like Scott Murrays positivity but they do say momentum is everything; you could see how we would follow last seasons splendid finish with the good start this campaign. 

In being so positive now is it because they are being told to be so to paper the cracks? If not then their positivity tells a different story we do not yet know; clearly nobody in their right mind could be positive about more than half the season. I hope it is not blinkered positivity for the corporates but clearly the subliminal message is there; more academy players less expensive duds; LJ is having his wings clipped.

 

I think you're reading an awful lot into a single tweet from a former player that could quite conceivably have been written while he was on the loo.  It's not a bad thing that the manager is willing to play academy players but neither does it necessarily mean "LJ is having his wings clipped".  Academy players featuring in the first team is nothing new now but it hasn't stopped us spending substantial sums on the likes of Kodjia, Famara, Baker, Tomlin etc. in recent years.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Are we serious about worst ever seen?

• How about Blackpool away under Millen- Ipswich away under McInnes, Peterborough away same season...
• How about Swindon at home in the Carling Cup 2011, again under Millen?
• Good chunks of the Benny times, some god awful games under Pulis- the latter in the division below, so adjusted to standard particularly.
• O'Driscoll- well just most of his League One times particularly.
• Cotterill and a 3-0 loss at Sheffield United in a relegation clash in the first year back in League One- about 4 years ago.

These games in recent months have certainly been poor- particularly zero shots on target- but we've seen much worse haven't we- I don't get the hyperbole, when put in context.

[ZiderEyed]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Are we serious about worst ever seen?

• How about Blackpool away under Millen- Ipswich away under McInnes, Peterborough away same season...
• How about Swindon at home in the Carling Cup 2011, again under Millen?
• Good chunks of the Benny times, some god awful games under Pulis- the latter in the division below, so adjusted to standard particularly.
• O'Driscoll- well just most of his League One times particularly.
• Cotterill and a 3-0 loss at Sheffield United in a relegation clash in the first year back in League One- about 4 years ago.

These games in recent months have certainly been poor- particularly zero shots on target- but we've seen much worse haven't we- I don't get the hyperbole, when put in context.

3-0 home to Millwall at David James' first game was one of the worst in recent memory.

Battered on the pitch. James had a shocker.

Loads of Cockneys.

Brick through their coach window.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, ZiderEyed said:

3-0 home to Millwall at David James' first game was one of the worst in recent memory.

Battered on the pitch. James had a shocker.

Loads of Cockneys.

Brick through their coach window.

Yep- such high hopes and yet such the letdown...

[ZiderEyed]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Yep- such high hopes and yet such the letdown...

As is the norm supporting City.

England's number one my ******* arse crack.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, ZiderEyed said:

As is the norm supporting City.

England's number one my ******* arse crack.

What a waste he was.

I remember the following season too- 3-0 at home to Ipswich, opening day- amazing how it duplicated (except for the off the pitch).

[ZiderEyed]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

What a waste he was.

I remember the following season too- 3-0 at home to Ipswich, opening day- amazing how it duplicated (except for the off the pitch).

I wonder how much we were paying him to be utter cack. Remember getting lob-ons after he turned Celtic down to come here, never felt so let down by a signing. For all the deserved criticism FF gets, I'd have him over the James we got in a heartbeat. 

[Fordy62]

31 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

 

I see your Burton and raise you a Brentford.

Winner. 

[Red-Robbo]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Are we serious about worst ever seen?

• How about Blackpool away under Millen- Ipswich away under McInnes, Peterborough away same season...
• How about Swindon at home in the Carling Cup 2011, again under Millen?
• Good chunks of the Benny times, some god awful games under Pulis- the latter in the division below, so adjusted to standard particularly.
• O'Driscoll- well just most of his League One times particularly.
• Cotterill and a 3-0 loss at Sheffield United in a relegation clash in the first year back in League One- about 4 years ago.

These games in recent months have certainly been poor- particularly zero shots on target- but we've seen much worse haven't we- I don't get the hyperbole, when put in context.

A low in my mind is 3-1 to L2 Luton in 2015 in the League Cup. We had a full strength squad including Kodj.

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

A low in my mind is 3-1 to L2 Luton in 2015 in the League Cup. We had a full strength squad including Kodj.

Yep, good shout.

IIRC Luton were in deeply financially problematic financial times at the time...or maybe it was Coppell's final opponents with us, a 3-2 loss at Southend in Round 1 of League Cup- I remember at least one of those opposition being potless.

[Mr Popodopolous]

10 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

How many teams have been promoted from the Championship to the Premiership in the last 10 years using your advocated strategy ? 

The current strategy of signing huge numbers of players that do not trouble the first team and  without a playing strategy combined with coach who is desperately out of his competence level is hardly groundbreaking or likely to evolve the club. The level of incompetence at the club is still shocking, and is far from the required level of excellence required in coaching and recruitment to make a substantial step forward. 

Stability is great when you have the elements in place to justify it and maximise the potential. 

The search for excellence and authentic strategy are still a long way off. It is too superficial and non substantive. 

The contrast with the approach this last season to Bristol Rugby and BCFC could not be more striking. 

Each to their own, but head in the ground and a stability argument as a counter policy to a collapse of epic proportions , dire and changing tactics, questionable man management and dire transfer policy does not convince.

 

FFP.

Rugby financial rules- not sure they have any outside the top tier for a start. They have a salary cap though, which might hinder Bristol- depends how much they have left.

Before you or anyone else comes back saying it isn't, won't be enforced- we don't know because the FFP cycle for this level, it ends at the end of next season. Financially, the comparison is misleading- so stability might yet be ideal in the current financial landscape.

You do though, raise some points I have some agreement with- perhaps we have signed too many players and wasted some money. LJ is inexperienced, but he seems not to be learning tactically- both concern me.

[Red-Robbo]

18 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Yep, good shout.

IIRC Luton were in deeply financially problematic financial times at the time...or maybe it was Coppell's final opponents with us, a 3-2 loss at Southend in Round 1 of League Cup- I remember at least one of those opposition being potless.

Luton had just come up from the conference and were knocking around the base of L2 at the time.  Only League cup I know, but our record in that competition had been one of unmitigated shit in recent years until this season.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, Red-Robbo said:

Luton had just come up from the conference and were knocking around the base of L2 at the time.  Only League cup I know, but our record in that competition had been one of unmitigated shit in recent years until this season.

Last season- think we got to the 4th round didn't we? Was a decent little run and could have beaten Hull, certainly worth extra time IMO.

[Red-Robbo]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

Last season- think we got to the 4th round didn't we? Was a decent little run and could have beaten Hull, certainly worth extra time IMO.

No giant killing though, since the Chelsea match I believe. 

Wracking my memory, it might've been when we were knocked out at home by Oxford that you were thinking of earlier. I seem to remember them having cash problems around that time.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

No giant killing though, since the Chelsea match I believe. 

Wracking my memory, it might've been when we were knocked out at home by Oxford that you were thinking of earlier. I seem to remember them having cash problems around that time.

No giant killing, but a few close calls. If you mean the League Cup? Surely the Chelsea game was FA Cup? Liverpool '94- the League Cup pre this year? Who knows.

Oxford- there's another to add to the list! Southend, if I recall were virtually bankrupt in 2010- and we duly helped their survival by donating them a First Round League Cup win!

[Frenchay Red]

1 hour ago, ChippenhamRed said:

 

I see your Burton and raise you a Brentford.

Can't argue with that, but I was talking about away rubbish!

[Andy082005]

On 28/04/2018 at 16:03, reddogkev said:

Forget WBA, what about us?  It pains me to say this, because I like and respect Lee and want him to succeed, but our remarkable demise since the beginning of January has affected my view of LJ.  I appreciate that he has moulded us into a steady Championship team, but am seriously concerned that he couldn't find a way to recover the form (that I give him credit for in respect to the first part of the season) and lost everything good we had created. 

I look at him now and don't see a manager with the ability to push City on.  As sad as it sounds, if he left in the summer, I would partially be relieved as can see us struggling from the off next season, especially if the incredible form of Reid leads to his sale.

Despite this, I don't expect and don't call for the club to oust Lee Johnson, not on the back of a decent 10th place finished, but just can't shake this feeling of failure.  If we don't get off to a quick start again next season, will we be able to prevent another losing sequence and a relegation battle?

This sounds very pessimistic, but after the last 4 months, it's hard not to feel so bloody negative and downbeat!

How many out there at the moment still have confidence in Lee to deliver the goods in the Championship?

Next season is huge for LJ as manager of Bristol City

It will be his third full season here and for me, he must deliver a top 6 finish. You could argue last season he was finding his feet at this level and we were going through a transition. You can even argue this season has been about starting to build something that's really his. At some point though he has to start delivering on the pitch. We cannot keep talking about 'building' and 'learning'. 

My concern is I just can't trust him to get recruitment right. No matter who he signs...our spine always ends up being players who were here before he came. I really believe we will lose Flint, Bryan, Reid and Pack in the summer...and I genuinely fear for us next year with what he will bring in to replace them

He will still be here September but he will NEED to hit the ground running. Anything else and it will turn toxic and his job with become untenable

The dream is top 6 this time next year

The reality is he will be gone by end of October 

 

[cidered abroad]

6 hours ago, Super said:

The only question that matters is whether he is capable of taking us to the next level. If not he should be gone.

IMO he is not. More likely to end up in League One. He's had shed loads of cash support from SL, many times more than any manager in my time since 1950. And still cannot stop these miserable runs of three to four months per season. 

[cidered abroad]

56 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

Next season is huge for LJ as manager of Bristol City

It will be his third full season here and for me, he must deliver a top 6 finish. You could argue last season he was finding his feet at this level and we were going through a transition. You can even argue this season has been about starting to build something that's really his. At some point though he has to start delivering on the pitch. We cannot keep talking about 'building' and 'learning'. 

My concern is I just can't trust him to get recruitment right. No matter who he signs...our spine always ends up being players who were here before he came. I really believe we will lose Flint, Bryan, Reid and Pack in the summer...and I genuinely fear for us next year with what he will bring in to replace them

He will still be here September but he will NEED to hit the ground running. Anything else and it will turn toxic and his job with become untenable

The dream is top 6 this time next year

The reality is he will be gone by end of October 

 

An October departure will mean another totally wasted summer. He should go now! 

[reddogkev]

5 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Are we serious about worst ever seen?

• How about Blackpool away under Millen- Ipswich away under McInnes, Peterborough away same season...
• How about Swindon at home in the Carling Cup 2011, again under Millen?
• Good chunks of the Benny times, some god awful games under Pulis- the latter in the division below, so adjusted to standard particularly.
• O'Driscoll- well just most of his League One times particularly.
• Cotterill and a 3-0 loss at Sheffield United in a relegation clash in the first year back in League One- about 4 years ago.

These games in recent months have certainly been poor- particularly zero shots on target- but we've seen much worse haven't we- I don't get the hyperbole, when put in context.

You've got a hell of a memory for crap game!  I tend to forget the bad games rather quickly, unless they stay anchored in my mind for some other reason.  Mind you, I do have the memory of a goldfish.

[Mr Popodopolous]

26 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

You've got a hell of a memory for crap game!  I tend to forget the bad games rather quickly, unless they stay anchored in my mind for some other reason.  Mind you, I do have the memory of a goldfish.

I remember Benny and Pulis quite well as it was my first half season and season respectively. 

I still maintain these games pretty bad in 2nd half of season... However we've definitely had worse and not so long ago in varied cases too- what I'm saying I guess? It's not so bad ultimately.

However, it's a big summer ahead. Both in terms of keeping the key, core players and in terms of LJ devising a suitable Plan A...and B, maybe a C.

instead of drilling Plan A all summer as we did in 2017...and leaving it at that.

If this stuff doesn't happen? We could yet next year regress to some of the grim examples I provided.

[Andy082005]

3 minutes ago, Tiree said:

Whenever I read these posts I get so bored when there is no mention of who the OP thinks is a realistic list of people they would rather see in the role. 

Otherwise the post is as pointless as it would be on 91other league forums when whingers say 'we could do with a be better manager but I can't be arsed to think of one' 

If suggestions have been made subsequent to the OP then my apologies I didn't see them

CTiD

By October Cardiff will have panicked and sacked Warnock 

So that'll do

[spudski]

5 hours ago, billywedlock said:

How many teams have been promoted from the Championship to the Premiership in the last 10 years using your advocated strategy ? 

The current strategy of signing huge numbers of players that do not trouble the first team and  without a playing strategy combined with coach who is desperately out of his competence level is hardly groundbreaking or likely to evolve the club. The level of incompetence at the club is still shocking, and is far from the required level of excellence required in coaching and recruitment to make a substantial step forward. 

Stability is great when you have the elements in place to justify it and maximise the potential. 

The search for excellence and authentic strategy are still a long way off. It is too superficial and non substantive. 

The contrast with the approach this last season to Bristol Rugby and BCFC could not be more striking. 

Each to their own, but head in the ground and a stability argument as a counter policy to a collapse of epic proportions , dire and changing tactics, questionable man management and dire transfer policy does not convince.

 

Many more teams haven't been promoted using the 'generic' strategy.

A huge number have been signed for development...for the future.

They weren't bought in to play this season, and some not even next. We've a long term strategy...not a short term.

The prices of players has gone through the roof...what we think is expensive...a couple million, is nothing these days.

It takes time...how do you expect players brought in for development to make an impact this season?

Head in the ground is continually doing the same thing, that doesn't work.

Head in the ground is trying to do the same as other teams in this league that have far more resources than us.

Us and Brentford are trying to compete by doing it slightly differently.

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

The problem with football it's a marathon not a sprint and we paid the price for not pacing ourselves.  Next season I predict a much more tepid start to the season with a sprint finish.

[lenred]

18 minutes ago, spudski said:

Many more teams haven't been promoted using the 'generic' strategy.

A huge number have been signed for development...for the future.

They weren't bought in to play this season, and some not even next. We've a long term strategy...not a short term.

The prices of players has gone through the roof...what we think is expensive...a couple million, is nothing these days.

It takes time...how do you expect players brought in for development to make an impact this season?

Head in the ground is continually doing the same thing, that doesn't work.

Head in the ground is trying to do the same as other teams in this league that have far more resources than us.

Us and Brentford are trying to compete by doing it slightly differently.

Judging by the match between us a few weeks ago Brentford are far more effective at it than we are. 

[spudski]

8 minutes ago, lenred said:

Judging by the match between us a few weeks ago Brentford are far more effective at it than we are. 

1 point difference and they've lost more than us, and scored less...even though they've had more shots attempted than any other team in the league. Same goal difference...hardly any difference between us.

Take a look at the league table and look below us and around us...we are far better than many bigger teams in the league over the season.

42 goal better difference than Birmingham as an example.

17 goals better and 10 points better than the mighty Leeds...

but apparently to the vocal minority on here...we are shite.

[BobBobSuperBob]

On 19/04/2018 at 16:31, BobBobSuperBob said:

Was interested so had a look

If Transfermarket have it near right

£23m over the 3  seasons 

https://www.transfermarkt.com/fc-brentford/transfers/verein/1148/saison_id/2017

 

Having said that - over the same period they generated

a staggering

 

 

£55 million in fees received 

 

 

Using the same source 

Our fees paid in those same 3  seasons approx £30m

Fees Received approx  £18m

 

 

21 minutes ago, lenred said:

Judging by the match between us a few weeks ago Brentford are far more effective at it than we are. 

As you will see above len - financially too , by some miles 

No £2 million pound development signings out on loan for them , buy them , use them , sell them , repeat

 

Anyway , Apparently , our approach / philosophy is totally different to theirs

 

 

[lenred]

16 minutes ago, spudski said:

1 point difference and they've lost more than us, and scored less...even though they've had more shots attempted than any other team in the league. Same goal difference...hardly any difference between us.

Take a look at the league table and look below us and around us...we are far better than many bigger teams in the league over the season.

42 goal better difference than Birmingham as an example.

17 goals better and 10 points better than the mighty Leeds...

but apparently to the vocal minority on here...we are shite.

They absolutely battered us, the most one sided 0-1 I’ve ever seen. And according to most on here earlier in the season they battered us (yes I know we got a draw). As they did at their place last year (I was there). They play better football than us on a sizeably lower budget as BBSB points out, with a stadium half the size of ours and even though they have to compete on London wages they compete or better us.  We haven’t beaten them in the last 8 attempts in the Championship. Results speak for themselves if you are comparing us two clubs. 

[spudski]

1 hour ago, lenred said:

They absolutely battered us, the most one sided 0-1 I’ve ever seen. And according to most on here earlier in the season they battered us (yes I know we got a draw). As they did at their place last year (I was there). They play better football than us on a sizeably lower budget as BBSB points out, with a stadium half the size of ours and even though they have to compete on London wages they compete or better us.  We haven’t beaten them in the last 8 attempts in the Championship. Results speak for themselves if you are comparing us two clubs. 

Indeed results speak for themselves...hence the facts I gave you.

Funny how they lost to Barnsley 2=0 on the weekend...almost as bad as our Burton result.

Comparing both teams against one another is futile...it's about the league in whole.