Is Lee Johnson the right man for the job?

[BS4 on Tour...]

1 hour ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

Interesting - MM had all season to get Ipswich promoted but ended the season below us. 

We were ‘boom and bust’ but they were just drivel. 

I’m happier ending the season where we are than where Ipswich are. 

Interesting the Wolves fans don’t rate him much either. 

Mick has worked miracles with no real funds to spend on players....he spent less than £6m in total on players in his six years at Portman Road....also interesting that Wolves’ fans didn’t rate him...he got them to the championship play offs in his first season in charge at Molineux, they finished 7th in his second season,  and in his third season they were top of the championship from October until they were promoted to the premier league by mid-April! They went up as Champions having been top of the championship for 42 of the 46 games and they stayed up in the premier league the next season...and they stayed up the season after that too...all under Mick...a great manager...if a City manager had done any of that we’d have wanted him knighted! So why don’t Wolves fans rate him given what he did for them...quickly?

PS - he also took Sunderland up to the premier league as champions of the championship - wot an awful manager he is?!!!!!

[NickJ]

Measures the height of the grass.

Narrowed the pitch because it would suit our style - no explanation given for that one.

Bought a drone. 

And takes our centre forward off to throw our centre half up front when it’s going wrong. 

Personally think he’s full of hot air and cliches. 

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, NickJ said:

Measures the height of the grass.

Narrowed the pitch because it would suit our style - no explanation given for that one.

Bought a drone. 

And takes our centre forward off to throw our centre half up front when it’s going wrong. 

Personally think he’s full of hot air and cliches. 

He did....a yard off either side, to condense the pitch to make the press easier.  Attention to detail see!  So much so that he forgot to tell Frankie! 

[Silvio Dante]

Just now, Davefevs said:

He did....a yard off either side, to condense the pitch to make the press easier.

And in view of the home record, you’d have to say it was the right call

Now, how can we narrow the other pitches in the league...

[Bris Red]

1 hour ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

Interesting - MM had all season to get Ipswich promoted but ended the season below us. 

We were ‘boom and bust’ but they were just drivel. 

I’m happier ending the season where we are than where Ipswich are. 

Interesting the Wolves fans don’t rate him much either. 

 

26 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Mick has worked miracles with no real funds to spend on players....he spent less than £6m in total on players in his six years at Portman Road....also interesting that Wolves’ fans didn’t rate him...he got them to the championship play offs in his first season in charge at Molineux, they finished 7th in his second season,  and in his third season they were top of the championship from October until they were promoted to the premier league by mid-April! They went up as Champions having been top of the championship for 42 of the 46 games and they stayed up in the premier league the next season...and they stayed up the season after that too...all under Mick...a great manager...if a City manager had done any of that we’d have wanted him knighted! So why don’t Wolves fans rate him given what he did for them...quickly?

Absolutely BS4 on tour. How anyone can compare the situation Mick McCarthy found himself in at Ipswich and the one Lee is here is utterly laughable and shows a complete lack of research.

Let me just remind bcfcredandwhite that since MM had been at Ipswich he  never spent more than 800k on a player, our management team spunk that away on ones for the future who dont even get close to the first team.. Whilst not achieving necessarily amazing league positions,  with the extremely poor resources he has had i think they were respectable at Ipswich .. no relegation battles for one and also let me remind people he got them into the play offs in 2014/15.

Id show Lee the door after Sunday if MM was interested!

[bcfcredandwhite]

The only research I did for my post was reading the comments on the Ipswich and Wolves boards - and looking at the league table. 

I have nothing personally against MM. 

[Cowshed]

11 hours ago, NickJ said:

1. Measures the height of the grass.
2. Narrowed the pitch because it would suit our style - no explanation given for that one.
3. Bought a drone. 

And takes our centre forward off to throw our centre half up front when it’s going wrong. 

Personally think he’s full of hot air and cliches. 

You are an articulate and obviously intelligent poster but what actually is wrong with your first thee points. It is hard to see how the first two have negative effects. The second point, it is generally acknowledged that this is a significant tool to aid training from grass roots football upwards. And the third has been part of football since ... Clubs habitually alter pitch sizes, some have done it during the season in search of some /any advantage.

[cidered abroad]

1 minute ago, Cowshed said:

You are an articulate and obviously intelligent poster but what actually is wrong with your first thee points. It is hard to see how the first two have negative benefits, The second it is generally acknowledged that this is a significant tool to aid training from grass roots upwards. And the third has been part of football since ... Clubs habitually alter pitch sizes, some have done it during the season in search of some /any advantage.

Amendment of pitch size is not allowed during the season.

Even with a narrowed pitch we still concede too many goals.

And recently, even if the pitch was eight yards wide, we still wouldn't be able to get a shot on target!

[Cowshed]

11 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

Amendment of pitch size is not allowed during the season.

Even with a narrowed pitch we still concede too many goals.

And recently, even if the pitch was eight yards wide, we still wouldn't be able to get a shot on target!

Amendment of pitch size is not allowed during the season ...  Did occur in the past. Clubs do alter pitch sizes season to season. Pitch sizes are now more general than they were but they are not uniform. Spurs are a team that have benefitted from a small pitch suiting their style to teams that suffers playing at home on a larger pitch at Wembley.

Grass cutting can alter the way a ball behaves, Length and direction of cut has affect. There were clubs who deliberately left grass longer down the flanks to hold the ball up, ruined areas so the ball did not run true, didn't water pitches, made corner flag areas uneven ... Played in Bath in blue and white. 

This goes on and on ... Not just Lee Johnson ... All norms and not something to club the bloke with..

[Spike]

12 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

And in view of the home record, you’d have to say it was the right call

Now, how can we narrow the other pitches in the league...

I honestly don't understand why people think our home form was so great, it wasn't.

Home form table we are 9th with 11 wins, 6 draws and 5 losses.
Away form table we are 10th with 6 wins 10 draws and 7 losses. 

So just looking at that the only difference is that we draw more away instead of winning but in comparrison, to the rest of the league we're still smack bang average at home. 

The whole narrowing the pitch may be a valid option to implement a tactic but as you joked about we can't make all the pitches that way. There is no point in looking for small advantages at home if we can't apply that to our away game as it just makes the conditions inconsistent.

At the moment I've accepted LJ will be in control next season and if things go how we expect in the summer I do not have a lot of faith in him to make us progress up the league table, I'd expect quite the opposite.

[Warwickshire Red]

Whether LJ measures the grass length at away grounds I don’t know. Has anyone seen him doing so?

But if he does, has it made a difference to how we play?

It doesn’t seem to have made any difference to away results in the second half of the season so there’s a question why he’d even raise this unless to create a perception of being a manager using scientific techniques and “finding the extra 1%”.

It’s a small point and it’s unlikely to win you games but not convinced it was worth mentioning in the first place.

[WhistleHappy]

Depends what job you need him to do....

Give him a paintbrush to paint the ceiling and he'd be useless.....

On the other hand, if it's skirting boards that need doing  

[BobBobSuperBob]

19 minutes ago, Warwickshire Red said:

Whether LJ measures the grass length at away grounds I don’t know. Has anyone seen him doing so?

Yes he does - He was spotted before the away game at Sheff Utd on Sky IIRC (He didn’t publicise it)

But if he does, has it made a difference to how we play?

It certainly can do - he alluded to Away game in Carabao ar Watford when the grass had been left longer so they changed their game plan slightly and put theball in behind Watford as they realised the longer grass would help hold it up -

We won 3-1

It doesn’t seem to have made any difference to away results in the second half of the season so there’s a question why he’d even raise this unless to create a perception of being a manager using scientific techniques and “finding the extra 1%”.

As much as I have lots of doubts about LJ Support the attention to detail like this - can make a difference in a game (Not if you and your team are all at sea of course !) 

i do worry that as useful as all the tools and detailed focus can be - The most important thing is to set your side up well and get them playing

I wonder whether he gets distracted / confused / muddled by ‘information overload’  at times and ends up over thinking and overtinkering (And Tbf successes in tinkering such as Watford may  have increased his confidence in the idea of using information to tinker)

At the Q&A he explained how he gets a dossier of team performance , on the Sunday or Monday , about 4 inches thick 

Add numerous video clips to watch and analyse , Thats a lot of information !!!!

I hate to think how big the forthcoming opponents dossiers are - Add those two together plus all his other ideas and I personally believe there is a severe danger of over complicating - all the little finery are great on top of a great side when you are looking for the fine margins that will win a crucial title defin8ng game(s) etc - but get everything else right first and foremost

Think he could do with reducing his information intake and concentrate on his own side more

He himself admitted that the Pre Xmas side part fell together because of injuries where (In his mind at least) he had few selection options.That doesn’t detract from the importance of Bobby Reid who he moved forward or the coaching involved)

IMHO. - In the same way perfect and recruit for plan A - A good , well executed plan A will at least see you enough points for stability each season 

Then construct and work on Plans b etc

It does look increasingly like proof that he’s better when he has fewer options and toys to play with IMHO

 

 

 

[reddogkev]

13 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Mick has worked miracles with no real funds to spend on players....he spent less than £6m in total on players in his six years at Portman Road....also interesting that Wolves’ fans didn’t rate him...he got them to the championship play offs in his first season in charge at Molineux, they finished 7th in his second season,  and in his third season they were top of the championship from October until they were promoted to the premier league by mid-April! They went up as Champions having been top of the championship for 42 of the 46 games and they stayed up in the premier league the next season...and they stayed up the season after that too...all under Mick...a great manager...if a City manager had done any of that we’d have wanted him knighted! So why don’t Wolves fans rate him given what he did for them...quickly?

PS - he also took Sunderland up to the premier league as champions of the championship - wot an awful manager he is?!!!!!

Incredible, MM's record is nothing short of outstanding.  You'd have to suspect that if he wasn't in charge of Ipswich for the last few years, they would have been relegation fodder.

If I was in charge at City, I'd hire him as manager and keep LJ as a coach.  If Lee Johnson didn't want to work with Mick, that would be pretty sad and disrespectful to the older man.

Lee is still so young, he wouldn't be harmed by learning from such a worthy mentor.

GO ON SL, BRING IN MICK!

[cheshire_red]

No

[Cowshed]

1 hour ago, Spike said:

I honestly don't understand why people think our home form was so great, it wasn't.

Home form table we are 9th with 11 wins, 6 draws and 5 losses.
Away form table we are 10th with 6 wins 10 draws and 7 losses. 

So just looking at that the only difference is that we draw more away instead of winning but in comparrison, to the rest of the league we're still smack bang average at home. 

The whole narrowing the pitch may be a valid option to implement a tactic but as you joked about we can't make all the pitches that way. There is no point in looking for small advantages at home if we can't apply that to our away game as it just makes the conditions inconsistent.

At the moment I've accepted LJ will be in control next season and if things go how we expect in the summer I do not have a lot of faith in him to make us progress up the league table, I'd expect quite the opposite.

There is every point.  It is a reason why teams win more games at home - Because all the variables away from home are harder to control. So potential small advantage at home should be examined, explored, used ... 

[BS4 on Tour...]

1 hour ago, cheshire_red said:

No

Why not, given his record?

[BS4 on Tour...]

3 hours ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

The only research I did for my post was reading the comments on the Ipswich and Wolves boards - and looking at the league table. 

I have nothing personally against MM. 

But Mick left Wolves over 6 years ago....are they still talking about him on their forum or do you have an amazing memory?!

[havanatopia]

3 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Why not, given his record?

Because SL wants a manager to toe the line and do it the 4 pillars way. Mick would have none of that. He only needs to call Coppell to find out SL sometimes gets too involved for some managers.

[BS4 on Tour...]

2 hours ago, Warwickshire Red said:

Whether LJ measures the grass length at away grounds I don’t know. Has anyone seen him doing so?

But if he does, has it made a difference to how we play?

It doesn’t seem to have made any difference to away results in the second half of the season so there’s a question why he’d even raise this unless to create a perception of being a manager using scientific techniques and “finding the extra 1%”.

It’s a small point and it’s unlikely to win you games but not convinced it was worth mentioning in the first place.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/jamie-mcallister-explains-bristol-city-704346

[ChippenhamRed]

2 hours ago, Spike said:

I honestly don't understand why people think our home form was so great, it wasn't.

Home form table we are 9th with 11 wins, 6 draws and 5 losses.
Away form table we are 10th with 6 wins 10 draws and 7 losses. 

So just looking at that the only difference is that we draw more away instead of winning but in comparrison, to the rest of the league we're still smack bang average at home. 

The whole narrowing the pitch may be a valid option to implement a tactic but as you joked about we can't make all the pitches that way. There is no point in looking for small advantages at home if we can't apply that to our away game as it just makes the conditions inconsistent.

At the moment I've accepted LJ will be in control next season and if things go how we expect in the summer I do not have a lot of faith in him to make us progress up the league table, I'd expect quite the opposite.

I actually think a distinction needs to be made regarding our late-season form.  Our last 8 home games: W4 D3 L1.  Not bad at all.  Transpose that across the season and you've got 43 points from your home games.  It's our away form since December that's been the real problem.  If we'd managed to be average away from home - nothing more than average was required - we'd be in the play offs.

[ChippenhamRed]

22 minutes ago, havanatopia said:

Because SL wants a manager to toe the line and do it the 4 pillars way. Mick would have none of that. He only needs to call Coppell to find out SL sometimes gets too involved for some managers.

Do we actually know that about Coppell or is that rampant speculation?  I would suggest it is the latter.  If not can you point to the evidence? 

If that was really the reason he left then why has he never had a high profile job in management since - and why didn't he have any involvement in football until a Director of Football job at Crawley two years later?  His stock was high at the time.

[NickJ]

3 hours ago, Cowshed said:

You are an articulate and obviously intelligent poster but what actually is wrong with your first thee points. It is hard to see how the first two have negative effects. The second point, it is generally acknowledged that this is a significant tool to aid training from grass roots football upwards. And the third has been part of football since ... Clubs habitually alter pitch sizes, some have done it during the season in search of some /any advantage.

Attention to detail is fine but of limited value if the bigger decisions are wrong. Too many times in the second half of this season there have been howlers while Lee was measuring the grass.

I put a lot of it down to the January signings. These were the big decisions which IMO played a large part in spurning a golden opportunity. Add to that the other big money signings who apparently cannot be trusted, and it adds up to serious concerns over recruitment. 

Can't knock where we are compared with expectations, but then, last season was the complete opposite.

 

[bcfcredandwhite]

48 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

But Mick left Wolves over 6 years ago....are they still talking about him on their forum or do you have an amazing memory?!

Not sure tbh but I play football every week with a Wolves fan and he kept going on about him being 5h1te. 

None of this is my own opinion - I’m just interested at how differently managers can be viewed by different fans of different clubs. There were fans of other clubs for example even during our slump who were bemused that any of us would want LJ gone. 

I wouldnt mind it if MM came - but equally wouldn’t mind if LJ stays. Would someone like MM want to come to us and work for Steve Lansdown? I doubt it - and that’s something for people who want rid of LJ need to bear in mind. There are reasons why ‘established’ managers seem to not come to Ashton Gate. 

Perhaps we should try a crafty approach to Arsene Wenger - I hear he’ll be looking for work soon?!   

[Cowshed]

Just now, NickJ said:

Attention to detail is fine but of limited value if the bigger decisions are wrong. Too many times in the second half of this season there have been howlers while Lee was measuring the grass.

I put a lot of it down to the January signings. These were the big decisions which IMO played a large part in spurning a golden opportunity. Add to that the other big money signings who apparently cannot be trusted, and it adds up to serious concerns over recruitment. 

Can't knock where we are compared with expectations, but then, last season was the complete opposite.

 

Attention to detail is always of significant, it is of massive value in football. It is a key to maintaining standards and improvement. Clubs are examining and improving everything. Do not do it get left behind. 

The above is no reason to harshly critique Mr Johnson. Its all normal.

Tactical decisions (howlers) in matches are different. These are often influenced by focus, emotions, perspective of the game itself ... 

 

[Warwickshire Red]

1 hour ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/jamie-mcallister-explains-bristol-city-704346

Thanks for that. Clearly is used then and everything may help to give you an advantage but ultimately team selection, substitutions and tactics etc. are much bigger factors influencing the final result and we could certainly improve there.

[BS4 on Tour...]

6 hours ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

Not sure tbh but I play football every week with a Wolves fan and he kept going on about him being 5h1te. 

None of this is my own opinion - I’m just interested at how differently managers can be viewed by different fans of different clubs. There were fans of other clubs for example even during our slump who were bemused that any of us would want LJ gone. 

I wouldnt mind it if MM came - but equally wouldn’t mind if LJ stays. Would someone like MM want to come to us and work for Steve Lansdown? I doubt it - and that’s something for people who want rid of LJ need to bear in mind. There are reasons why ‘established’ managers seem to not come to Ashton Gate. 

Perhaps we should try a crafty approach to Arsene Wenger - I hear he’ll be looking for work soon?!   

Fair play, but your Wolves mate must have outrageously unrealistic expectations to call Mick’s reign shite....he took them to the championship play offs in his first season there, then he finished 7th, then he won the championship for Wolves as champions, then he kept them up in the premier league for three seasons....not a bad six year reign....what did your mate expect? Champions League football?!

[Major Isewater]

On 01/05/2018 at 19:02, havanatopia said:

Basically, we don't know. We are all here debating and some are downright arguing. LJ has got under the skin these past few months a bit like a pesky eczema that comes and goes; just when you think it aint coming back it does and u get all rat arsed about it all over again. 

Didn't Eczema score twice for Real Madrid last night ? 

[Major Isewater]

23 hours ago, bris red said:

 

Absolutely BS4 on tour. How anyone can compare the situation Mick McCarthy found himself in at Ipswich and the one Lee is here is utterly laughable and shows a complete lack of research.

Let me just remind bcfcredandwhite that since MM had been at Ipswich he  never spent more than 800k on a player, our management team spunk that away on ones for the future who dont even get close to the first team.. Whilst not achieving necessarily amazing league positions,  with the extremely poor resources he has had i think they were respectable at Ipswich .. no relegation battles for one and also let me remind people he got them into the play offs in 2014/15.

Id show Lee the door after Sunday if MM was interested!

Why would MM be interested in a door ? 

[BS4 on Tour...]

11 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Why would MM be interested in a door ? 

I used to work with a guy called Matt.....when I held the door open for him in the office I’d announce “Mat-a-dor” - he never laughed, but then again, he never giggled when every morning I said “Welcome Matt” - and he never sniggered when every Friday I said “Do you fancy a beer Matt?” - I need to work on my routine.....