Jump to content

Welcome to One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums

Welcome to One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums, like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community, but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Be a part of One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums by signing in or creating an account.

  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Full access to all forums (not all viewable as guest)
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates
  • Get your own profile page and make new friends
  • Send personal messages to other members.
  • Support OTIB with a premium membership

Sign in to follow this  
Jack Dawe

Getting to the top v staying at the top

Recommended Posts

Received wisdom has it that getting to the top is the easy - or easier - bit. We clearly do not as yet have a group, or individuals - or enough individuals - to do the hard bit.

I wonder if this old truism might tell us something about our season, more than anything more sinister or damning?

Vincent Kompany talks about this in the guardian (sorry, can't fathom how to link onto here!) saying how once you get there you have to fight "human nature" (ie, to be be content with what you've done and then lose the intensity that helped get you there). He says:

 

"Staying there (at the top) is a lot harder. Because you have to fight human nature. Once you achieve a goal and you are on a high you have to consciously pull yourself in to say: 'I need to have the same hunger and desire as when I had nothing.' That's the hardest thing to do in life. That is getting challenged every single day once you win titles."

 

If you swap "titles" for "quarter finals against world super club" and "second in the Championship at Christmas" maybe you get us and where we fell down since the Wolves game? We've got the boys to get us to second; but not to keep us there. 

If this is the case, I don't think we should be too hard on anyone involved here, or too indifferent, and we should show them our appreciation and support on Sunday, and where possible choose to remember the great moments and forget the dire ones. I know not all will be able to do this but those that can, send the team - and head coach! - off feeling supported and uplifted, if only for selfish reasons, ie that they respond to this next season.

Surely no-one needs to leave early to get a ****ing bus Sunday, do they? Ffs. Don't tell me: the missus has told you to stop on the way back and get cheap sausages and burgers for Monday's bbq? 

 

We've got all summer to ponder/argue about/discuss on here where the **** LJ is going to find - probably not in Sweden - enough players with the quality Vincent Kompany is referring to; do try and summon a little enthusiasm for your team first on Sunday before they **** off to Vegas and we start falling out with each other again.

 

And, yes: I am a superfan. I was at Newport '82. Where were you?

 

Edited by Jack Dawe
  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

Received wisdom has it that getting to the top is the easy - or easier - bit. We clearly do not as yet have a group, or individuals - or enough individuals - to do the hard bit.

I wonder if this old truism might tell us something about our season, more than anything more sinister or damning?

Vincent Kompany talks about this in the guardian (sorry, can't fathom how to link onto here!) saying how once you get there you have to fight "human nature" (ie, to be be content with what you've done and then lose the intensity that helped get you there). He says:

 

"Staying there (at the top) is a lot harder. Because you have to fight human nature. Once you achieve a goal and you are on a high you have to consciously pull yourself in to say: 'I need to have the same hunger and desire as when I had nothing.' That's the hardest thing to do in life. That is getting challenged every single day once you win titles."

 

If you swap "titles" for "quarter finals against world super club" and "second in the Championship at Christmas" maybe you get us and where we fell down since the Wolves game? We've got the boys to get us to second; but not to keep us there. 

If this is the case, I don't think we should be too hard on anyone involved here, or too indifferent, and we should show them our appreciation and support on Sunday, and where possible choose to remember the great moments and forget the dire ones. I know not all will be able to do this but those that can, send the team - and head coach! - off feeling supported and uplifted, if only for selfish reasons, ie that they respond to this next season.

Surely no-one needs to leave early to get a ****ing bus Sunday, do they? Ffs. Don't tell me: the missus has told you to stop on the way back and get cheap sausages and burgers for Monday's bbq? 

 

We've got all summer to ponder/argue about/discuss on here where the **** LJ is going to find - probably not in Sweden - enough players with the quality Vincent Kompany is referring to; do try and summon a little enthusiasm for your team first on Sunday before they **** off to Vegas and we start falling out with each other again.

 

And, yes: I am a superfan. I was at Newport '82. Where were you?

 

I can't tell you  top secret old boy .

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

i was at Newport '82. Where were you?

I was there Jack :city:

Tho I didn’t get to see the whole game

:whistle:

  • Like 3
  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't let Mark Ashton manage player recruitment - that is the first step to building a team for the top !

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jack Dawe said:

 

 

And, yes: I am a superfan. I was at Newport '82. Where were you?

 

Stood alongside you? 

Edited by cidered abroad
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Jack Dawe said:

Received wisdom has it that getting to the top is the easy - or easier - bit. We clearly do not as yet have a group, or individuals - or enough individuals - to do the hard bit.

I wonder if this old truism might tell us something about our season, more than anything more sinister or damning?

Vincent Kompany talks about this in the guardian (sorry, can't fathom how to link onto here!) saying how once you get there you have to fight "human nature" (ie, to be be content with what you've done and then lose the intensity that helped get you there). He says:

 

"Staying there (at the top) is a lot harder. Because you have to fight human nature. Once you achieve a goal and you are on a high you have to consciously pull yourself in to say: 'I need to have the same hunger and desire as when I had nothing.' That's the hardest thing to do in life. That is getting challenged every single day once you win titles."

 

If you swap "titles" for "quarter finals against world super club" and "second in the Championship at Christmas" maybe you get us and where we fell down since the Wolves game? We've got the boys to get us to second; but not to keep us there. 

If this is the case, I don't think we should be too hard on anyone involved here, or too indifferent, and we should show them our appreciation and support on Sunday, and where possible choose to remember the great moments and forget the dire ones. I know not all will be able to do this but those that can, send the team - and head coach! - off feeling supported and uplifted, if only for selfish reasons, ie that they respond to this next season.

Surely no-one needs to leave early to get a ****ing bus Sunday, do they? Ffs. Don't tell me: the missus has told you to stop on the way back and get cheap sausages and burgers for Monday's bbq? 

 

We've got all summer to ponder/argue about/discuss on here where the **** LJ is going to find - probably not in Sweden - enough players with the quality Vincent Kompany is referring to; do try and summon a little enthusiasm for your team first on Sunday before they **** off to Vegas and we start falling out with each other again.

 

And, yes: I am a superfan. I was at Newport '82. Where were you?

 

Good post and get where your coming from, but disagree with what (I think) you are saying. That we had the players who had the desire and mentality to get us to 2nd...but not to keep us there?

We have all posted our thoughts on our January business on here, however not many have mentioned how the current squad of players were equally let down in that January window . They gave their all for that first 4 months however it was clear they needed help before the window even opened. They needed Championship ready players...to come in, and add real quality and experience to the squad straight away . It never came and what happened next was always going to happen . 

The club's mentality and business in January...probally as good as made up certain players minds on whether they were going to leave this summer

The players by and large...deserve a huge round of applause for this season. 

Edited by Andy082005

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's usually a couple of stand out teams that will get to the top and stay there and then another dozen or so who emerge as playoff contenders. Assuming that city are unlighly to come into the first category then is it all about pacing yourself over the season? Ipswich and Sheffield United were running away at the start of the season then dropped away. City progressed into the top six and remained there for most of their matches. Then you have the teams on a last minute sprint, Fulham and Millwall who whilst staying in the top half haven't been anything special until the fourth quarter. I wonder whether city feel under so much pressure at the beginning that they just run out of steam before the end. 10 years ago it was Hull who suddenly emerged out of the following pack in the last few weeks.

And I know that it was a race against relegation early on but once the pressure was off, a little easing off, rotation of the players, (not tinkering), and we might have had the stamina to remain in the playoffs. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

Good post and get where your coming from, but disagree with what (I think) you are saying. That we had the players who had the desire and mentality to get us to 2nd...but not to keep us there?

We have all posted our thoughts on our January business on here, however not many have mentioned how the current squad of players were equally let down in that January window . They gave their all for that first 4 months however it was clear they needed help before the window even opened. They needed Championship ready players...to come in, and add real quality and experience to the squad straight away . It never came and what happened next was always going to happen . 

The club's mentality and business in January...probally as good as made up certain players minds on whether they were going to leave this summer

The players by and large...deserve a huge round of applause for this season. 

I would agree with quite a lot of that.

I suspect a lot of the players felt that they needed some assistance in January and once they saw what came in and what that offered they may well have thought that the club /BS, didn't want it as much as they did.

We have all read the points made on here about 'comfort zones' and potential worries about being replaced should we have got promotion and I understand that but in professional sport that is always possible.

The other side to that particular coin is that I would imagine that most of the players would have a rather attractive promotion clause in their contract. They may even have had lesser, although no doubt significant, bonus for reaching the play-offs ( they ain't getting either!).

Regardless, I think that January would make a number of players who do think they can make the step -up or at least wish to see if they can, question the clubs ambition or at least the 'project' and how and if, it would get them to the PL whilst they were around.

For a number of them I suspect all the media attention of the cup games and being 2nd in the league probably turned their head in the sense that they enjoyed it and want more of it, whether that's here or elsewhere.

If there is an exodus in the summer, and I am not so sure there will be, those are likely to be the main reasons alongside, of course - £££££.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Too many injuries and not enough quality in the squad to play every game and cover. Very simple as to why it went wrong imo.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Injuries didn’t help this season but I believe a more experienced manager who has ‘been there before’ so to speak would have managed the run in from December onwards and also the January transfer window much better. It was clear to see what was needed and the powers that be didn't act. Inexperienced and or poor decisions were the reason imo. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Potential new player in January. “When will Pisano/ O’Dowda/ Djuric/ Dediou/ Taylor be fit ?

                                                         “ I about a month/ 6 week’s”

                                                          “ Will I be first choice when they come back ?”

                                                          “ Probably not / can’t promise.”

                                                           “ Thanks but no thanks ! “

                     

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Aberdeen Pete's Dad said:

Potential new player in January. “When will Pisano/ O’Dowda/ Djuric/ Dediou/ Taylor be fit ?

                                                         “ I about a month/ 6 week’s”

                                                          “ Will I be first choice when they come back ?”

                                                          “ Probably not / can’t promise.”

                                                           “ Thanks but no thanks ! “

                     

Depends how you are playing. Perform so well that I can't drop you.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Jack Dawe said:

And, yes: I am a superfan. I was at Newport '82. Where were you?

 

Are you sure you were there? I've studied your avatar and I'm sure I'd remember you :whistle:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, 1960maaan said:

Are you sure you were there? I've studied your avatar and I'm sure I'd remember you :whistle:

I was so much older then....

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, spudski said:

Too many injuries and not enough quality in the squad to play every game and cover. Very simple as to why it went wrong imo.

I'm not sure it is that simple, although I tend to agree about quality, and  lack of options when playing with intensity to a point. 
We had that purple patch because of injuries forcing us into playing personnel and style that we probably wouldn't have had if everyone stayed fit. Sadly that has coloured many's perception of the season, raised expectation far too high IMO. The timing of injuries, the amount and severity did have a massive affect on the season, but if it was just that I would have hoped for an upturn in form almost as soon as players started to return. I do know it's not as straight forward as that, and if anything returning players appeared to upset the balance of the team. I wonder if we had Walsh then and maybe if LJ trusted Mags more so we could have rotated Bryan into a CM role whether we could have kept up that high intensity pressing game.
During this poor run I have seen glimpses of early season form returning but, I think confidence has really hit any return of form. 
I hope LJ has learnt from this year, if we can get the in's and out's right this summer , we may be able to push for a similar finishing position next year. Hopefully with more consistency .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

I'm not sure it is that simple, although I tend to agree about quality, and  lack of options when playing with intensity to a point. 
We had that purple patch because of injuries forcing us into playing personnel and style that we probably wouldn't have had if everyone stayed fit. Sadly that has coloured many's perception of the season, raised expectation far too high IMO. The timing of injuries, the amount and severity did have a massive affect on the season, but if it was just that I would have hoped for an upturn in form almost as soon as players started to return. I do know it's not as straight forward as that, and if anything returning players appeared to upset the balance of the team. I wonder if we had Walsh then and maybe if LJ trusted Mags more so we could have rotated Bryan into a CM role whether we could have kept up that high intensity pressing game.
During this poor run I have seen glimpses of early season form returning but, I think confidence has really hit any return of form. 
I hope LJ has learnt from this year, if we can get the in's and out's right this summer , we may be able to push for a similar finishing position next year. Hopefully with more consistency .

We saw players coming back from injury that never really got up to speed again, apart from Odowda.

Pisano never got back to his early season form.

Baker was never the same and was always seemingly carrying a knock.

Famara got up to speed eventually.

Duric played a very small part....as did Taylor.

GoN and Hegeler both again long term.

Pato never recovered from his illness...has looked weak and off form since then.

Wright was playing with a constant injury and struggling.

Mags again getting knocks and not getting any rhythm going.

The only players that were consistent, but still had poor games occasionally, as do all professionals were Flint, Bryan, Smith, Pack and Reid. Fielding was indifferent all season.

Take into account the loans that didn't work...the squad players that obviously were taking longer to get up to speed like eliasson and walsh...

Take all that into consideration and how long players were out...we end up 2 wins off the play offs with still a game to play.

Not a bad result tbh...imagine if we hadn't had all those injuries and circumstances and things might have turned out slightly better.

Who knows...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good points @spudski , that loans killed us in the end I think. The Eliasson and Walsh signings were always liable to take a little time to settle for various reasons, and both were brought in with the future in mind. I sort of get why we didn't throw money at the transfers that could have got us a playoff spot, no guarantees so loans make sense. Sadly it all comes down to scouting and recruitment and ours does seem poor, specially in the loan market (Tammy apart). 

As I said though , without the first injuries , Pato wouldn't have been moved behind Bobby  , which was the start of the best spell of football I've ever seen at the Gate. I hope LJ takes bits from the season, good and bad , and next year with less Illness and injury we can have a decent season with out the loosing run. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, 1960maaan said:

Good points @spudski , that loans killed us in the end I think. The Eliasson and Walsh signings were always liable to take a little time to settle for various reasons, and both were brought in with the future in mind. I sort of get why we didn't throw money at the transfers that could have got us a playoff spot, no guarantees so loans make sense. Sadly it all comes down to scouting and recruitment and ours does seem poor, specially in the loan market (Tammy apart). 

As I said though , without the first injuries , Pato wouldn't have been moved behind Bobby  , which was the start of the best spell of football I've ever seen at the Gate. I hope LJ takes bits from the season, good and bad , and next year with less Illness and injury we can have a decent season with out the loosing run. 

Re the January transfer window...as I've said many times on here on previous posts when it's been talked about, we just don't know what money was available to use. We don't know the budgets and contracts with players and how they pan out over 3 seasons, with FFP in mind.

We may just not have had the money available.

We also don't know who we've approached, who was available, who we could have afforded and whether they wanted to come.

So many different variables.

So when I hear 'We screwed it up'...'through away our chance' etc, it just doesn't make sense...because it's not like going shopping with an endless budget.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I was there Jack :city:

Tho I didn’t get to see the whole game

:whistle:

Remember it well , that walk from the train station up Chepstow road and a big ruck on the George st bridge junction. Then in the ground those flying helmets...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...