clearing the squad, who would you sell?

[JoeAman08]

7 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

MA appears to have dissapeared into background again 

Wonder if @Davefevs was right when he suggested LJ may  have told that he needs to get money in before he considers more signings 

It would not surprise me if we needed to make some of our own budget. Will be going into our fourth championship season next year and when you take into account FFP is over 3 years and middle of our first we splashed out on loans and then continued to spend more each window, we may be approaching our limit. Though sales of some players plus some lucky sell ons may have eased the burden/sped up some bigger signings(Fam or Baker). This is why I support our model. Build the young players up and hopefully the need to spend on a replacement is less likely. Example Joe Bryan leaving but have Mags and Kelly who wouldn’t cost us anymore but are above average at LB for the league imo. Still early into setting this all up so spending still neccessary but hopefully in 2-3 more years when a player leaves, there are two waiting in the wings to take over. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

25 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

It would not surprise me if we needed to make some of our own budget. Will be going into our fourth championship season next year and when you take into account FFP is over 3 years and middle of our first we splashed out on loans and then continued to spend more each window, we may be approaching our limit. Though sales of some players plus some lucky sell ons may have eased the burden/sped up some bigger signings(Fam or Baker). This is why I support our model. Build the young players up and hopefully the need to spend on a replacement is less likely. Example Joe Bryan leaving but have Mags and Kelly who wouldn’t cost us anymore but are above average at LB for the league imo. Still early into setting this all up so spending still neccessary but hopefully in 2-3 more years when a player leaves, there are two waiting in the wings to take over. 

Fully understand what you’re saying and the theory Joe and you make good points

My issue / slight worry with the example you give re JB  / HM / LK is that we paid £2m for HM who LJ doesn’t appear to trust (And who personally I don’t  think sufficient) and young Lloyd who looks a class act but a big ask / responsibility to be reliant on him for the whole of next season ) due purely to his age / inexperience )  -

He may well be up to it and is a far better hope to replace  JB than HM IMHO

At least we have a viable option to replace JB

As for say Flint or BR leaving that puts us back in the recruitment market and that’s the Bit which concerns me

[View from the Dolman]

1 hour ago, Mendip City said:

With the way recruitment is made, do you have the final say?

The Post haven't totally accurately represented the question there...

Starting at 18:30 in this audio: https://www.bcfc.co.uk/bctv/player/?id=0_x9turxjr

Gregor McGregor: "Finally on the way recruitment is made, do you have the final say? Also, I think the club were recruiting an head of international scouting. But um I did ask Mark about this, back in October, and he said that. I think he said at the time actually he had had interviews. Um. But nothing was (inaudible)"

Lee Johnson: "I think all those questions are for Mark really. Do you know what I mean? Like, obvious he's the he's the CEO. Um. For me, yes with the recruitment staff, I'm talent ID".

So "those questions" being for Mark could well be about the scouting structure and then he answers to the "do you have the final say?" question: "Yes, I'm talent ID."

 

[Mendip City]

3 minutes ago, View from the Dolman said:

The Post haven't totally accurately represented the question there...

Starting at 18:30 in this audio: https://www.bcfc.co.uk/bctv/player/?id=0_x9turxjr

Gregor McGregor: "Finally on the way recruitment is made, do you have the final say? Also, I think the club were recruiting an head of international scouting. But um I did ask Mark about this, back in October, and he said that. I think he said at the time actually he had had interviews. Um. But nothing was (inaudible)"

Lee Johnson: "I think all those questions are for Mark really. Do you know what I mean? Like, obvious he's the he's the CEO. Um. For me, yes with the recruitment staff, I'm talent ID".

So "those questions" being for Mark could well be about the scouting structure and then he answers to the "do you have the final say?" question: "Yes, I'm talent ID."

 

Thanks, that’s interesting. Does put a diffeeent light on it. 

More fool me believing the Post’s full transcript was a full transcript! 

[Bris Red]

Reid is the only real concern for me. All the rest can be replaced. Flint and Bryan in particular are both over rated by our fans imo, good players but not irreplaceable. As others have said a war chest of potentially over 25 mill can be generated.. with SL im sure being able to add some more if needed its a fair amount of money at this level to rebuild.

What really really worries me is buffoon 1 LJ and buffoon 2 MA. There Recuitment has already been proven to be very questionable and i really dont trust them with any sort of war chest to be honest.

[JoeAman08]

35 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Fully understand what you’re saying and the theory Joe and you make good points

My issue / slight worry with the example you give re JB  / HM / LK is that we paid £2m for HM who LJ doesn’t appear to trust (And who personally I don’t  think sufficient) and young Lloyd who looks a class act but a big ask / responsibility to be reliant on him for the whole of next season ) due purely to his age / inexperience )  -

He may well be up to it and is a far better hope to replace  JB than HM IMHO

At least we have a viable option to replace JB

As for say Flint or BR leaving that puts us back in the recruitment market and that’s the Bit which concerns me

Flint would set us back imo. Players come and go and it is also an oppurtunity to make changes that may be necessary to get better. Meaning perhaps Flint isn’t the best fit right now? Not an debate I am trying to have but maybe how we can look at it? Baker was his replacent but valuations weren’t met so he stayed. 

Reid a huge loss for sure but a change of formation and money spent on an extra midfielder to play in a 3? Again could be a change that helps. Goes either way for me. I don’t fear the loss of many in this squad because we have resources to replace. 

As for Mags and Kelly, I like them both. Kelly more so but no need to move him slong too fast. Give him a big 4 year deal though this summer in case he impresses again next season to fend off interest. Mags a confidence player and generally a 7/10 when right. No problem with him and Kelly having a split say 30 or so for Mags and 16 for Kelly plus cups unless Kelly just outclasses in every match

[Wolf Island]

1 hour ago, BoneyardTIM said:

But what has Mick McCarthy achieved and before you say wonders with no budget, what makes you think he could with a budget, Just because you're good with nothing, that could equal shit with something.

Promoted two clubs to the premier league 

[Super]

4 minutes ago, Ser Davos Ciderworth said:

Promoted two clubs to the premier league 

Boneyard has had a shocker there.

[Davefevs]

4 hours ago, Robbored said:

LJ has an idea of the type of player he wants and if they become available then MA does all he can to secure that signing. That said there are numerous potential problems such as fee, wages and whether the agents demands are acceptable to MA's budget.

The 'final say' is not about the suitability of the player but whether MA is prepared/able  to pay the asking price. 

Re your final sentence, I believe you right, but the whispers I hear is that MA is having too much of a say on the non-financial side of the deal, e.g. the players ability, potential etc.

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

MA appears to have dissapeared into background again 

Wonder if @Davefevs was right when he suggested LJ may  have told that he needs to get money in before he considers more signings 

Simple maths tells me we made £8m profit on transfers in the 2016/17 accounts.  That saved us being close to the £13m (average loss).

If you then think we bought Diedhiou and Baker for circa £9m, whilst offloading Tomlin for say £2m, plus new contracts, and you can see there being a large hole in the 17/18 accounts.  SL May write most of that off, but summer 2018s transfer budget has got to come from somewhere.

In terms of the OP, it’s difficult to say.  If you lose Reid, you probably want to keep Taylor, etc.

In terms of choices, if I had to keep Flint or Baker, then I’d keep Flint.  I’m definitely revised my opinion on this one...sorry Aden! 

[Robbored]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Re your final sentence, I believe you right, but the whispers I hear is that MA is having too much of a say on the non-financial side of the deal, e.g. the players ability, potential etc.

Maybe......but we as fans aren't likely to be privy to the decision making set up within AG.   

[RumRed]

7 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Maybe......but we as fans aren't likely to be privy to the decision making set up within AG.   

There's a decision making process?

[CodeRed]

it's clear to me that LJ's " these are questions for Mark" ....is LJ trying to distance himself from the questions over the recruitment (and point the finger at MA). I would guess SL is asking the same questions as the fans of his Management team and LJ is in self preservation mode.

Don't forget following the record losing run Pembo was "let go" at LJ's request and the timing ( it was brought forward) was engineered by LJ to imply it was Pembo's fault.

 

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, CodeRed said:

it's clear to me that LJ's " these are questions for Mark" ....is LJ trying to distance himself from the questions over the recruitment (and point the finger at MA). I would guess SL is asking the same questions as the fans of his Management team and LJ is in self preservation mode.

Don't forget following the record losing run Pembo was "let go" at LJ's request and the timing ( it was brought forward) was engineered by LJ to imply it was Pembo's fault.

 

This comment could be seen to back up my earlier comment re MA’s over-involvement.

[Robbored]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

This comment could be seen to back up my earlier comment re MA’s over-involvement.

How can the CEO be "over involved?" 

Its in his job description to have his finger on the pulse of everything that goes on within AG.......

[Davefevs]

15 minutes ago, Robbored said:

How can the CEO be "over involved?" 

Its in his job description to have his finger on the pulse of everything that goes on within AG.......

If he’s having too much ‘opinion’ on players, yes, he can.  He does not have that skill set, his skills are financial, operational, organisational etc.

He is a football administrator, I’m more than happy for his to get deals over the line (I think he’s been relatively successful in that aspect), but he shouldn’t be too involved in the evaluation of a player.  He can of course voice the financial side of the deal and his that fits into the overall budget.

Nit everything this club does from top to bottom, on and off the pitch is perfect, by any stretch of the imagination.  It’s better than it was, undoubtedly, but has a way to go.

CEO’s in any company (football and non-football) can be ‘over-involved’.  That’s why you have hierarchies and structures and reporting lines and roles and responsibilities, etc.

[Robbored]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

If he’s having too much ‘opinion’ on players, yes, he can.  He does not have that skill set, his skills are financial, operational, organisational etc.

He is a football administrator, I’m more than happy for his to get deals over the line (I think he’s been relatively successful in that aspect), but he shouldn’t be too involved in the evaluation of a player.  He can of course voice the financial side of the deal and his that fits into the overall budget.

Nit everything this club does from top to bottom, on and off the pitch is perfect, by any stretch of the imagination.  It’s better than it was, undoubtedly, but has a way to go.

CEO’s in any company (football and non-football) can be ‘over-involved’.  That’s why you have hierarchies and structures and reporting lines and roles and responsibilities, etc.

Ashton might have a serious input to which players LJ wants but it's wild speculation to say that he actually does influence transfers.

Fact is we don't know - end of.

[Davefevs]

15 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Ashton might have a serious input to which players LJ wants but it's wild speculation to say that he actually does influence transfers.

Fact is we don't know - end of.

Ok, we don’t know - end of.

[cidered abroad]

Hi GrahamC. You gave my earlier post a rubbish. 

Was it all rubbish, mostly rubbish or one little bit rubbish? 

I was only thinking aloud after one of Johnson's recent comments that we might be surprised by how the summer will go. 

Maybe the surprise will be if he's not still here in August. 

[GrahamC]

5 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

Don't want to create a new thread but my comments below are "the ones that I think may go this summer". 

Steele. Put O'Leary as number two. I would not be surprised if we bought a new number one and Fielding also went. 

Pisano. Too erratic. 

Baker. I'm guessing that he and LJ have fallen out. 

Bryan. May want to see if he can make it in the Premier. 

Bailey Wright. Has he been injured or left out by LJ? Or has he taken umbrage at some fans booing him and decided to go elsewhere? 

Magnússon. He's never appeared to be LJ's first choice and with Kelly and Vyner banging on the door, do we need him? 

Pack. Maybe looking for a new challenge. 

Reid. Like Joe Bryan may go to Premier. 

Paterson. Too inconsistent so may be moved on. 

Engvall. Do I need a reason? 

Hegeler. A quality footballer but doesn't seem to fit with LJ. I'd personally keep him and play him defensive midfield in a three or diamond. 

O'Neil. Not now good enough at top of Championship. 

Taylor. Not my type of top end championship striker but LJ seems to like his attitude. 

Eliasson. Does he have a future here? I like him but does LJ? I'm guessing that Opi Edwards may jump ahead of him. 

I can't think of many more who might be leaving. Some under 23's like Plavotic may. 

If the clear out is as extensive as my list, LJ and his coaching staff will have to work miracles to build a side/squad that will be good and consistent enough to challenge at top end.

We may have a clearer picture of the future from tomorrow's team and bench. 

To answer your question..

You say above that 14 players “may” leave.

This excludes 2 who are out of contract.

I don’t think there is even 1% chance of this happening, so I think it is rubbish.

Of course it “may” happen, then again an asteroid “may” hit earth and wipe out human life but I don’t think that will happen, either.

By the way Bailey Wright is injured, not “taken umbrage at being booed”, just injured.

[BCFC11]

The only one I’d be willing to let go would be Bryan unless LJ plays him further up field, he’s NOT a lb why he continues to play him there I have no idea.

Reid is the only one I’d be sad to see go, on this season alone he’s been one of the best players we’ve had here for years, not just his goals but his work rate is phenomenal, would be a massive loss.

[The Fat Controller]

If we were to get rid of the likes of Hegeler, Taylor, Djuric, Magnússon and others as many here are suggesting, who do people think we can bring in that would improve the squad, whilst managing to keep everyone happy because they can't all play, also bearing in mind that we are unable to bring in any emergency loans and all the while fitting our wage bill, transfer budget and being of the right DNA?

Wholesale change is very unlikely. A few out and a few in. 

[cidered abroad]

So why did Johnson say recently, something along the lines, can't remember exact quote, that we might be surprised to see what happens this summer. 

I took his remark as a negative, although it could easily be a positive. If the former, are we losing half a dozen or did it mean a couple or three in of good quality? 

 

[Fuber]

Who will leave currently:

Steele, Gary O'Neil, Golbourne, Kent, Diony, Woodrow, Garita.

Who I think will/want-to leave (in addition):

Fielding, Flint, Magnússon, Bryan, Reid, Taylor, Engvall.

Who I expect we'll loan out:

Moore, Walsh, Hinds, Andrews, Bakinson, Edwards, Plavotic, Pring, Dowling, Jonny Smith, Semenyo, Morton.

Who I want us to sign:

Dean Henderson (Man Utd), Josh Clarke (Brentford), Emyr Huws (Ipswich), Jarrod Bowen (Hull), Jeff-Reine Adelaide (Arsenal), Sam Baldock (Brighton).

Who I want us to loan:

Jay DaSilva (Chelsea), Reiss Nelson (Arsenal).

Squad Example: (4-2-3-1/4-4-1-1)

Starting XI

Henderson; Clarke, Wright, Baker, Kelly; Pack, Smith, Brownhill; Bowen, Diedhiou, O'Dowda.

Bench

O'Leary, Vyner, Paterson, Huws, Baldock, Adelaide, DaSilva.

Reserves

Wollacott, Morrell, Djuric, Adelaide, Hegeler, Baldwin, McCoulsky.

 

 

 

[Redrascal2]

22 hours ago, Mendip City said:

This is the problem. Most are replaceable but the last window and possibly the one before suggest we might not be capable of accurately replacing.  Just look how many have come in since promotion yet how many of that promotion side remain. I’d even argue that some of the promotion team who left haven’t been improved upon: certainly Ayling... is Magnússon any better than Derrick Williams? Pisano better than Little? Djuric than Wilbraham? Paterson better than Freeman? 

You could argue all that lot but it’s hard to think of many signings who have been genuine, significant  upgrades. 

We just need to be careful with what we wish for when it comes to recruitment....

When Johnson came as our manager, I read a post from a Barnsley fan that said Johnson transfer policy would seem like a revolving door. Loads of players coming in. Quantity not quality. With many not working out. I don't look forward to his next clutch of signings that will never play and end up at Cheltenham. Lose the likes of Flint, Pack ,Smith and we are in big trouble.

[ChippenhamRed]

18 hours ago, BoneyardTIM said:

But what has Mick McCarthy achieved and before you say wonders with no budget, what makes you think he could with a budget, Just because you're good with nothing, that could equal shit with something.

Suggest you do a little more research next time.

[ChippenhamRed]

20 hours ago, Robbored said:

The Ipswich faithful desperately wanted rid of MM essentially because he played dull and uninspiring football........it was their pressure that led to him moving on and they were delighted when he departed Portman Rd.

And you're right LJ isn't going anywhere.

Not so much the case as desperately wanting rid, more a sense it was the right time to move on. One of my best friends is an Ipswich fan and worries that they will plummet without McCarthy, who took a pragmatic approach to get the best out of a limited squad.

I still see him as the palettable version of Warnock for this club and would love to see him here. A manager with a genuine track record of success in the Championship would be a first for us (Coppell debacle aside).

[AshtonGreat]

On 05/05/2018 at 09:04, JonDolman said:

I'd sell Magnússon and Engvall. I'd keep hegeler as an emergency 5th choice centre back and I don't think anyone would make an offer anyway. I'd sell Reid, Bryan and Pack if they don't sign new deals. And I'd sell Flint if someone bidded 10 or more million. I'd even sell Baker if a good bid came in. Hopefully bring in Webster from Ipswich. Best to get our incoming transfers done before selling. 

They won't

[GrahamC]

4 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Not so much the case as desperately wanting rid, more a sense it was the right time to move on. One of my best friends is an Ipswich fan and worries that they will plummet without McCarthy, who took a pragmatic approach to get the best out of a limited squad.

I still see him as the palettable version of Warnock for this club and would love to see him here. A manager with a genuine track record of success in the Championship would be a first for us (Coppell debacle aside).

Me too, 100%.

[Robbored]

10 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Not so much the case as desperately wanting rid, more a sense it was the right time to move on. One of my best friends is an Ipswich fan and worries that they will plummet without McCarthy, who took a pragmatic approach to get the best out of a limited squad.

I still see him as the palettable version of Warnock for this club and would love to see him here. A manager with a genuine track record of success in the Championship would be a first for us (Coppell debacle aside).

Think most non Ipswich fans can see that MM did a decent job given the limited resources at the club but like lots of football fans they often can't see the woods for the trees. We have a number of our own fans with the same limited view.

The first sentence of the second paragraph is an excellent description of MM but I'm not convinced he'd be willing to employ SLs transfer philosophy.