I-N-S-E-C-U-R-I-T-Y: the magic word

[harvey54]

3 hours ago, Olé said:

One thing hopefully everyone can agree on - because LJ himself has always readily admitted it - is that he is a young coach who is continually learning on the job.

There is no shame in that at all. Plenty of fantastic coaches grow like that, BUT the good ones are always self-confident and never burdened by their inexperience.

I won't comment on LJ's coaching - that debate will run for much longer - but I have seen enough to be clear that he is shaping a team around his own insecurities.

 

I've mentioned this before, but in business you'll often see young managers who down-skill their teams with people who are easy to manage and less threatening. 

It's the classic reaction of the inexperienced leader and the word that explains it is insecurity. It is crippling as it robs teams of quality and individual responsibility.

You end up with a clone army of passive, young, inexperienced "staff" for the job at hand, who are emotionally immature - precisely what LJ publicly said they are.

 

Last week LJ admitted there were no leaders on the pitch - we can all see that. It's because he's recruited no leaders. They are tough to manage, They talk back.

Flint is the only player who will shout and scream, and no surprise he was the first one LJ wanted to ship out last year - he's long since had to row back on that!

Why are there no players who can individually dig in and avert a downturn in form? Because he's recruited passive young things who await their next instructions.

 

Bottom line LJ is a young coach and that is okay. What is not okay is for his insecurity about his inexperience to translate into recruiting inexperience around him.

There is no reason for LJ to be insecure, under SL he has one of the most secure jobs in the game, but episodes like Tomlin have terrified him out of "experience".

He's learning the Championship himself and doesn't want people around him who know more than he does and will see through his judgement from time to time.

 

As a result - under the guise of promoting youth and recruiting "ones for the future" - we end up with a group of callow young things that hang on his every word.

Their end product will be as inexperienced as he is, and lacking the individual personality or drive, or prior Championship experience, to enhance LJ's instructions.

This collective down-skilling happens under "middle managers" in firms up and down the land. It's no shame on LJ, but we're going nowhere until he grows a pair.

 

When LJ was asked what he'd ask Mourinho over his expensive bottle of wine, he himself was very clear - go back and check - "how to manage big personalities."

We know Mourinho didn't have the wine and LJ didn't get his answer. But it was the clearest signal that you'll get about LJ's self-aware insecurity in his approach. 

Unfortunately it's translated into the squad of unproven players and long runs of bad form we see in front of us. There are no leaders because LJ is not a leader.

This

Probably the best post on here for years 

[Mr Popodopolous]

49 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Pack had a right attitude problem yesterday, pointing and ambling around moaning and groaning all game, I also noticed that him and Flint seem to have a problem with each other, also when he scored a couple of weeks ago hardly anybody congratulated him.

 

He is piss weak in any position across midfield, can't tackle to save his life a total liability defensively, he is not good enough at this level but sadly LJ sees himself within him.

I think as a number 10 though... Well we saw what we saw in the Autumn. Better as a 10...

Winger in a 4-4-2? A waste, at best. 

[Boston Red]

18 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

 

Not sure SL likes genuine leaders to manage Bristol City, hence we get LJ and the 'head coach' title.

Spot on, Nogbad. SL does not like genuine leaders managing BCFC. He does not feel comfortable with them. He likes Yes-men. Like wet-blanket Keith Millen, described on here as your perfect next door neighbour. Or people with no managerial experience like Brian Tinnion, who will always be grateful to him for their first post, and will not rock the boat. Or LJ, the friendly cheeky chappy who talks the talk, but I imagine could not hair-dryer anyone or put a rocket up a player. Just more power point presentations and management speak. Cotterill was a real man, and he was not backed in the transfer market towards the end of our promotion season, was not backed in the summer after promotion, and was fired as soon as they reasonably could fire him (not that I am saying he should have stayed on).

SL will never appoint a Neil Warnock or a Mick McCarthy or an Ian Holloway because he simply does not feel comfortable with that type of man. He loves and adores LJ like a son because LJ gives him all the dressing room gossip, speaks to him before and after every game, cons and dazzles him with management speak nonsense, feeds his ego, and doesn't threaten him or rock the boat. To get the best out of players, you have to be able to put a rocket up them. LJ can't do that.

It happens in every business up and down the land. The successful, dynamic, entrepreneurial type of leader is never given the job because the management want a safe, boring, yes-man who does not threaten their ego. For a manager to get BCFC to the Premiership, he would have to put a bomb up the players and a bomb up the whole club, and SL does not want that. A successful manager once landed at BCFC by accident and fled within months. Why? His words. "I was a bit disappointed with the environment in which I found myself." His name was Steve Coppell. 

LJ is sincere in his efforts to bring success to BCFC, but I could be sincere and hard-working in my efforts to build a rocket to the moon - I am never going to do it because it is simply beyond me.

The last sentence of Ole's post says it all. "There are no leaders because LJ is not a leader."

[Esmond Million's Bung]

23 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I think as a number 10 though... Well we saw what we saw in the Autumn. Better as a 10...

Winger in a 4-4-2? A waste, at best. 

And I agree, but that is only viable if the other 9 outfield players are capable to cover for his defensive shortcomings and sadly as our form predictably dipped Paterson was found wanting and the desperate need for leaders and organisers was this time even apparent to LJ (2 years late mind you) the die was cast and the 2nd half of our season was defined, assisted by a shocking January window.

The problem is LJ got away with 'making do' at right back managing to cover for lack of cover but in January he again failed to address the problem and was forced into making do with others after it would appear the Wright had had enough, he never addressed our faltering midfield, perhaps if had done so Paterson might have been able to regain his early season form but no LJ decided to 'make do' and push him out wide and also LJ decided that the signing of a striker was another unnecessary expense in January because he decided 'to make do' and wait for strikers coming back from injury.

You will see the initials LJ feature prominently in the above, I don't blame Paterson it's the 'make do' attitude winging it because it worked earlier in the season and 'he got away with it', just like pushing Flint into attack when our unfit strikers couldn't score or our failing disorganised midfield could not support our loan striker Bobby Reid, but the mark of a good manager is having another plan when 'make do' doesn't work anymore and there sadly LJ fails miserably, so surely the answer has got to be LJ 'stop making do' and drastically improve the poor recruitment for a start and then make sure that each position is adequately covered.

Maybe just maybe a tactic that might have helped is playing 3 at the back, we certainly have the players to effect this set up and it might have bolstered midfield to enable Paterson to play his more natural game, but we kept on 'making do'.

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 hour ago, CodeRed said:

Ole spot on as usual, his first sentence..

"One thing hopefully everyone can agree on - because LJ himself has always readily admitted it - is that he is a young coach who is continually learning on the job.

There is no shame in that at all. Plenty of fantastic coaches grow like that, BUT the good ones are always self-confident and never burdened by their inexperience."

Interesting that the first thing Steven Gerrard did was appoint Gary McAllister, a guy with experience of coaching, No2, and management. LJ pushed to get rid of the (more) experienced Pembo and brought in Jamie Mac (no experience) and Dean Holden (some experience with Oldham).

 

Great points

[Mr Popodopolous]

50 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

And I agree, but that is only viable if the other 9 outfield players are capable to cover for his defensive shortcomings and sadly as our form predictably dipped Paterson was found wanting and the desperate need for leaders and organisers was this time even apparent to LJ (2 years late mind you) the die was cast and the 2nd half of our season was defined, assisted by a shocking January window.

The problem is LJ got away with 'making do' at right back managing to cover for lack of cover but in January he again failed to address the problem and was forced into making do with others after it would appear the Wright had had enough, he never addressed our faltering midfield, perhaps if had done so Paterson might have been able to regain his early season form but no LJ decided to 'make do' and push him out wide and also LJ decided that the signing of a striker was another unnecessary expense in January because he decided 'to make do' and wait for strikers coming back from injury.

You will see the initials LJ feature prominently in the above, I don't blame Paterson it's the 'make do' attitude winging it because it worked earlier in the season and 'he got away with it', just like pushing Flint into attack when our unfit strikers couldn't score or our failing disorganised midfield could not support our loan striker Bobby Reid, but the mark of a good manager is having another plan when 'make do' doesn't work anymore and there sadly LJ fails miserably, so surely the answer has got to be LJ 'stop making do' and drastically improve the poor recruitment for a start and then make sure that each position is adequately covered.

Maybe just maybe a tactic that might have helped is playing 3 at the back, we certainly have the players to effect this set up and it might have bolstered midfield to enable Paterson to play his more natural game, but we kept on 'making do'.

That is all fair yeah- he definitely is not good defensively, that's for sure. The brilliance of the 4-4-1-1 though was it maximised our strengths and minimised our weaknesses IMO- especially Paterson's. Maybe it was only a temporary solution, but he could create safe in the knowledge that we would have good possession and were compact- that 4-4-1-1 did and could easily morph into a 4-4-2-0 or a 4-6-0. What I'm saying is, that setup- by accident, design or just hitting upon it, masked his defensive shortcomings very well and let him do what he did best- create and link up with Reid. Again, I know it was only a temporary solution but Wright and Magnússon as full backs- what we lost in bombing on up the flanks, we gained in an ability to stay compact- that was effectively 4 centre backs

Agreed on that- I suppose in partial defence of LJ, he also thought Wright could keep up his performances at RB, his solidity at least and he also probably assumed the strikers who were injured and get back up to speed quicker- finances may have also played a role.

Fully agree on that- his tactics increasingly concern me. The 4-4-1-1 that worked so well? I call it Plan A Plus, iit's not really a vastly different Plan B but it's certainly different to what we had at the start of the season. Definitely need another RB, whether it's as cover or to replace Pisano. Generally though, the strikers getting injured- at one point all of Diedhiou, Djuric and Taylor all injured and I think the first 2 injured for good long periods, Taylor's injury later but now a bit recurring- well is that likely to happen again? Statistically, probably not, and if you sign a 5th striker you will have one more unhappy player for not playing.

Big fan of 3 at the back- think we have switched to it in-game at times, but yeah I'd go with that for sure. I thought 4-3-3 or 4-3-1-2 or definitely a 3 at the back- maybe 3-5-1-1 or even 3-4-1-2, there's a lot we could have done differently- not just would have helped Paterson, but more importantly would have helped the team. I've been deeply concerned about 4-4-2 as we play it now especially for a while- wow the open spaces in the first half yesterday! Yesterday not even the worst of it- Brentford, Barnsley, Hull...to name 3.

[Phileas Fogg]

1 hour ago, RedDave said:

Another thing that points to Johnson’s insecurities is how often he takes credit in post match interviews. 5 or 6 times he has taken credit for something his players have done. The latest being Bryan’s freekick. 

Other managers would be able to say similar things if they wanted to but I never hear it.  It points to insecurites to me.

What did he say about the free kick? Haven’t heard his post match 

[Phileas Fogg]

Also great post @Olé and I completely agree. Can people stop quoting it in their replies though! There is no need!

[Xiled]

2 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Cotts' team - Champions with a fantastic squad spirit, all created in double quick time by a Leader and a Winner.

Not sure SL likes genuine leaders to manage Bristol City, hence we get LJ and the 'head coach' title.

I appreciate that this thread is about leaders on the pitch but suggesting that Steve Cotterill is able to manage players (including those with the leadership qualities we're looking for on the pitch) isn't backed up by recent evidence.  He arguably had some very good players at his disposal at Birmingham and really got nothing from them.  I don't see he has the managerial skills for Championship football - Lee Johnson's record at this level is more convincing.

Being brilliant at League 1 (which Steve Cotterill was) has not translated to Championship managerial ability.

 

[downendcity]

2 hours ago, CodeRed said:

Ole spot on as usual, his first sentence..

"One thing hopefully everyone can agree on - because LJ himself has always readily admitted it - is that he is a young coach who is continually learning on the job.

There is no shame in that at all. Plenty of fantastic coaches grow like that, BUT the good ones are always self-confident and never burdened by their inexperience."

Interesting that the first thing Steven Gerrard did was appoint Gary McAllister, a guy with experience of coaching, No2, and management. LJ pushed to get rid of the (more) experienced Pembo and brought in Jamie Mac (no experience) and Dean Holden (some experience with Oldham).

LJ tells us he's a young coach who is "constantly learning"...................not sure he is learning, is he?

His time has been characterised by lengthy unsuccessfull spells that he has seemed unable to recify quickly, baffling team selections with players out of position - only to be changed at HT , baffling substitutions at times, unable to get his teams to hold a lead or close out games, a conveyor belt  of signings with no championship experience, and now he admits he has no leaders which is no surprise because he only signed one in the whole of his much stated" three windows".  During the last few games of the run in he's continued to makes these mistakes, some as recently as Saturday.

I don't think he is "constantly learning"

 

To balance the argument, it was only after  the more experienced Pemberton left and Jamie Mac came into the coaching team that our form and results improved spectacularly. That's not to say that everything in the garden is rosy, as that's patently not the case, but there is a danger that LJ is damned for every decision, just because fans are looking for enough rope with which to hang the guy.

Regarding Gerrard, i would venture that there are very few first appointment managers of his age with the clout in the game to be abel to appoint someone of Gary MacAllister's experience and ability - the fact that they were team mates and that it is Glasgow Rangers might have made a slight difference to his decision. 

 

 

 

[Xiled]

4 hours ago, Atyeo's lift said:

Wade Elliott? and I think O'Neil was signed with this idea in mind

Wade Elliott - definitely, forgot about him and would like to have seen him keep playing.

Gary O'Neill - take his age and experience out, has he ever shown himself as a leader? Not for me.

[cidered abroad]

17 minutes ago, downendcity said:

To balance the argument, it was only after  the more experienced Pemberton left and Jamie Mac came into the coaching team that our form and results improved spectacularly. That's not to say that everything in the garden is rosy, as that's patently not the case, but there is a danger that LJ is damned for every decision, just because fans are looking for enough rope with which to hang the guy.

Regarding Gerrard, i would venture that there are very few first appointment managers of his age with the clout in the game to be abel to appoint someone of Gary MacAllister's experience and ability - the fact that they were team mates and that it is Glasgow Rangers might have made a slight difference to his decision. 

 

 

 

He's doing a bloody good job to hang himself without any help from us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SedRA]

@Olé absolutely spot on. 

 

1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

What did he say about the free kick? Haven’t heard his post match 

He did that thing where he says he's really glad for x player scoring a free kick etc as "we've been working on that in training". I agree that it always comes across as him trying to take some responsibility for it.

[Babbacome Dave]

One of the bests posts and responses I have ever read on this forum. For me the problem lies solely with SL. I fully appreciate what this man has done for the club over his years at the helm BUT as most people say he only wants "yes men" around him. An attitude of " this is MY club and you will do as you're told". Which I suppose in some ways you can understand. He is now well on his way to Mr Bristol Sport, other than the rovers I own everything else!!! But then who would want them anyway?

My problem is he now has too many irons in the fire, especially now the egg chasers are in the premier league. I see the season tickets already include European cup matches! I can't ever see him  putting the club up for sale so while he's there I can't ever see the know experienced manager who has a mind of his own come to the club and push us on further to the promised land.

I am fully aware that some clubs have been taken over and failed miserably but some clubs, like wolves are a success. Thanks to SL we now have a wonderful stadium and facilities. Maybe a championship club with all this could be appealing to someone with even more money than SL.

[CodeRed]

1 hour ago, Xiled said:

I appreciate that this thread is about leaders on the pitch but suggesting that Steve Cotterill is able to manage players (including those with the leadership qualities we're looking for on the pitch) isn't backed up by recent evidence.  He arguably had some very good players at his disposal at Birmingham and really got nothing from them.  I don't see he has the managerial skills for Championship football - Lee Johnson's record at this level is more convincing.

Being brilliant at League 1 (which Steve Cotterill was) has not translated to Championship managerial ability.

 

How is LJ's record more convincing?

It's not just SC's short spell at Birmingham though, SC did ok at Burnley with the smallest squad and budget in the league - finishing a respectable 13th,17th, and 18th in his 3 years there.....Johnson's record is similar 18th,17th,11th at City but of course he doesn't have SC''s 4 promotions and 2 Trophies on his CV.

[Robbored]

6 minutes ago, Babbacome Dave said:

One of the bests posts and responses I have ever read on this forum. For me the problem lies solely with SL. I fully appreciate what this man has done for the club over his years at the helm BUT as most people say he only wants "yes men" around him. An attitude of " this is MY club and you will do as you're told". Which I suppose in some ways you can understand. He is now well on his way to Mr Bristol Sport, other than the rovers I own everything else!!! But then who would want them anyway?

My problem is he now has too many irons in the fire, especially now the egg chasers are in the premier league. I see the season tickets already include European cup matches! I can't ever see him  putting the club up for sale so while he's there I can't ever see the know experienced manager who has a mind of his own come to the club and push us on further to the promised land.

I am fully aware that some clubs have been taken over and failed miserably but some clubs, like wolves are a success. Thanks to SL we now have a wonderful stadium and facilities. Maybe a championship club with all this could be appealing to someone with even more money than SL.

Those two words - sustainability and stability.

SL would like all of BS to be self funding but is well aware that it won't happen unless City reach the PL where as we all know there are mega millions. Whilst we remain in the Championship the club will lose money every season and SL has the philosophy of developing young players into hopefully first team squad players in an effort to create at least some sustainability by keeping spending manageable. That's why he's reluctant to spend millions on star players.

Stability - the cycle over the years has been to hire and fire managers and when one goes he takes all his own staff with him and the next bloke brings in his own people thereby causing even move disruption to the club. That's why SL repeatedly says that LJ is in post long term and  given him licence to build his own backroom team. It's an attempt to recreate the Liverpool 'boot room' ethos that was so successful for them back in the 70s and 80s.

its a very sensible and different way of looking after a football club.

[WhistleHappy]

If his old man gave LJ a box of his infamous 'hand grenades'  he'd probably roll 'em in under the dressing room door and leave the pins in.. 

I'm not sure public talk of sussing out 'players he can trust' is such a good idea either.... what does that do for group morale I wonder? (even if he is correct in his thinking about certain individuals.

[Xiled]

43 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

How is LJ's record more convincing?

It's not just SC's short spell at Birmingham though, SC did ok at Burnley with the smallest squad and budget in the league - finishing a respectable 13th,17th, and 18th in his 3 years there.....Johnson's record is similar 18th,17th,11th at City but of course he doesn't have SC''s 4 promotions and 2 Trophies on his CV.

Cotterill was at Burnley over 10 years ago.  Complete respect for his achievements but the Championship is a different place these days.  Comparing his time at City and Birmingham in the Championship versus Johnson's time at City is a more reasonable measure of their overall ability to manage/coach at this level.

[bert tann]

A magnificent OP followed by a mature and thoughtful debate.

If you are worried that Lee Johnson is troubled by insecurity what should we do when, as witnessed by our own forums, the whole club is plagued by it ? 

[Xiled]

17 minutes ago, bert tann said:

A magnificent OP followed by a mature and thoughtful debate.

If you are worried that Lee Johnson is troubled by insecurity what should we do when, as witnessed by our own forums, the whole club is plagued by it ? 

Probably best to do what you promised you were doing at the start of April  You'll grow to love us - we've got working toilets, "in date" crisps and you won't need to watch the game from a gazebo.  Matty Taylor seems to love his new home!

[Curr Avon]

2 hours ago, Robbored said:

Those two words - sustainability and stability.

SL would like all of BS to be self funding but is well aware that it won't happen unless City reach the PL where as we all know there are mega millions. Whilst we remain in the Championship the club will lose money every season and SL has the philosophy of developing young players into hopefully first team squad players in an effort to create at least some sustainability by keeping spending manageable. That's why he's reluctant to spend millions on star players.

Stability - the cycle over the years has been to hire and fire managers and when one goes he takes all his own staff with him and the next bloke brings in his own people thereby causing even move disruption to the club. That's why SL repeatedly says that LJ is in post long term and  given him licence to build his own backroom team. It's an attempt to recreate the Liverpool 'boot room' ethos that was so successful for them back in the 70s and 80s.

its a very sensible and different way of looking after a football club.

'Boot Room' ethos? Alan, you're havin' a laugh. Bill Shankly created that famous room at Anfield during the 1960s. Shanks had managed four clubs over a decade before moving to Merseyside and comparing Lee Johnson and his inexperienced crew to Liverpool's backroom team, Paisley, Fagan, Bennett and later Geoff Twentyman Senior is comical.

Why not set the bar lower? How about work experience wonderland? Or Project Manager menagerie?

[CodeRed]

1 hour ago, Xiled said:

Cotterill was at Burnley over 10 years ago.  Complete respect for his achievements but the Championship is a different place these days.  Comparing his time at City and Birmingham in the Championship versus Johnson's time at City is a more reasonable measure of their overall ability to manage/coach at this level.

Indeed it was over 10 years ago, Birmingham were a chaotic club and he didn't really have much time. Still I think he recruited better than LJ, and I doubt LJ will ever achieve 4 promotions in his career

[Nogbad the Bad]

1 hour ago, Xiled said:

Cotterill was at Burnley over 10 years ago.  Complete respect for his achievements but the Championship is a different place these days.  Comparing his time at City and Birmingham in the Championship versus Johnson's time at City is a more reasonable measure of their overall ability to manage/coach at this level.

The difference is Cotterill had little or no money at Burnley and had to sell his best players every year.

Yet he kept them stable in the Championship and even became the Championship's longest serving manager.

If Cotterill had been backed at AG like LJ has been there's every chance he would have at least got very close to achieving his ambition of taking City to a double promotion. We had a great young team with fantastic spirit and with the momentum and pinpointed additions he had in mind we would have been set up to give the Championship 'a damn good go' as was his plan.

I don't know why you're insisting on comparing a manager in LJ who has achieved absolutely nothing with a proven winner whose managerial record of serial promotions and successful fights against all the odds to avoid relegation with basket case clubs speaks for itself.

How you could think of comparing Cotterill's record unfavourably with Lee Johnson actually beggars belief.

[CodeRed]

2 hours ago, Robbored said:

Those two words - sustainability and stability.

SL would like all of BS to be self funding but is well aware that it won't happen unless City reach the PL where as we all know there are mega millions. Whilst we remain in the Championship the club will lose money every season and SL has the philosophy of developing young players into hopefully first team squad players in an effort to create at least some sustainability by keeping spending manageable. That's why he's reluctant to spend millions on star players.

Stability - the cycle over the years has been to hire and fire managers and when one goes he takes all his own staff with him and the next bloke brings in his own people thereby causing even move disruption to the club. That's why SL repeatedly says that LJ is in post long term and  given him licence to build his own backroom team. It's an attempt to recreate the Liverpool 'boot room' ethos that was so successful for them back in the 70s and 80s.

its a very sensible and different way of looking after a football club.

Every single person on this forum fully understands SL's philosophy regarding developing academy players and buying young players who will improve both in performance and value.

We know it.

We also know why he wants a long term manager who will build the whole coaching infrastructure.

We know that too

There really is no need to continually keep restating it like it's breaking news. It's very boring.

The point is that although many folk agree with the "plan" we believe the wrong person is in charge of executing it, based on what we see on the pitch.

Seriously - leave aside all your trolling - do you genuinely believe LJ is the man to spend the Reid/Bryan money, reshape the squad and push us forward based on what you've watched since January and the 28 players he's signed?

[screech]

1 minute ago, CodeRed said:

Every single person on this forum fully understands SL's philosophy regarding developing academy players and buying young players who will improve both in performance and value.

We know it.

We also know why he wants a long term manager who will build the whole coaching infrastructure.

We know that too

There really is no need to continually keep restating it like it's breaking news. It's very boring.

The point is that although many folk agree with the "plan" we believe the wrong person is in charge of executing it, based on what we see on the pitch.

Seriously - leave aside all your trolling - do you genuinely believe LJ is the man to spend the Reid/Bryan money, reshape the squad and push us forward based on what you've watched since January and the 28 players he's signed?

There is an awful lot of trust that has been put into a very inexperienced coach and backroom team to build a club from the bottom up. How many businesses would give a junior manager full control over it's affairs and if there is such an example, how likely is it that it would be a success.

I have real concerns if SL allows our better players to leave right now, he should be throwing proper money at the likes of Kelly, Reid, Bryan Brownhill, Pack, Smith and Flint in a plea to get them to commit to longer terms with us. God help us if we sell them and he leaves Johnson with whats left and a pocket full of cash. The recruitment has been abysmal, those players are the ones that give a shit, the majority of the rest need to be shown the door.

[Davefevs]

Great post @Olé.

@BobBobSuperBob will agree that I’ve been saying similar for a good while too.  I’ve likened it previously to a spell I had at one club, where the manager started picking yes men, specifically the kids, who he could mould and not answer back.  We plummeted from near the top of the table, being solid and grinding out games, to just avoiding relegation, as more of the backbone of the early month’s were cast aside.  Hard to be surprised that I was one of the fall guys, captain to being dropped.  Of course it sounds bitter.  As a CB, I then was brought back in in CM, not my strength, and then up front, because we were getting outmuscled every game.  I scored 4 in 4, so that backfired.  There are so many other similarities it’s uncanny.

As for Gary O’Neil, rumour has it at Reading last season, he bollocked Bobby Reid for missing two good chances.  Tomlin stuck up for Reid, and it supposedly went off.  Now I’m not saying O’Neil was right to do that, but it probably shows that he’s a winner.  His lack of games despite tweets that he’s fit are telling imho.

3 hours ago, Robbored said:

Those two words - sustainability and stability.

SL would like all of BS to be self funding but is well aware that it won't happen unless City reach the PL where as we all know there are mega millions. Whilst we remain in the Championship the club will lose money every season and SL has the philosophy of developing young players into hopefully first team squad players in an effort to create at least some sustainability by keeping spending manageable. That's why he's reluctant to spend millions on star players.

Stability - the cycle over the years has been to hire and fire managers and when one goes he takes all his own staff with him and the next bloke brings in his own people thereby causing even move disruption to the club. That's why SL repeatedly says that LJ is in post long term and  given him licence to build his own backroom team. It's an attempt to recreate the Liverpool 'boot room' ethos that was so successful for them back in the 70s and 80s.

its a very sensible and different way of looking after a football club.

That’s an odd comparison.  I know you are 100% behind City / Bristol Sport and the philosophy (I like bits of it too), but to compare to the bootroom, or more accurately for SL to want a bootroom, shows how out of touch he is.  The Liverpool of the late 60s, then 70s and 80s was built on some stability, granted, but also that they were one of, if not the, wealthiest club in the land.  Forest, for a short term were massively backed for a small club, and then Man Utd took over.  Then it was Arsenal (should’ve been Spurs too) as Dein and Scholar ripped up the rules re Director’s remuneration and the big investment came.  The pattern follows, now its Man City and Chelsea.  It’s a money game.  It always has been.  Read books like Soccernomics or anything by David Conn and you’ll see.  Of course there are romantic stories like Leicester to defy the odds.

That romantic view is what SL has....that sustainability and stability will win through.  Admirable, but my view is that it will take luck with that policy to achieve what SL wants...the Prem.  Every year another team gets relegated with the ever increasing parachute money, the nail gets banged in a bit further, making it harder to achieve.

There is a large part of me that accepts it....we will become “Ipswich”.  Is that a bad thing?  We are on average a team that straddles the 2nd / 3rd tiers.  Maybe longevity in the Champ is above average?

I don’t think we will push towards the Prem without spending more money than SL thinks....and then nothing is guaranteed.  If SL does intend to put a bit more in, then I think he’ll want more guarantees, and I don’t think the current head coach can offer those (if he’s honest).  He has flaws, like most of our players.  When we don’t see those flaws we do well, but they find a way of coming out.

Just my view.

No hatred.

It will differ to some, not to others.

Welcome to OTIB summer 2018 

[spudski]

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Great post @Olé.

@BobBobSuperBob will agree that I’ve been saying similar for a good while too.  I’ve likened it previously to a spell I had at one club, where the manager started picking yes men, specifically the kids, who he could mould and not answer back.  We plummeted from near the top of the table, being solid and grinding out games, to just avoiding relegation, as more of the backbone of the early month’s were cast aside.  Hard to be surprised that I was one of the fall guys, captain to being dropped.  Of course it sounds bitter.  As a CB, I then was brought back in in CM, not my strength, and then up front, because we were getting outmuscled every game.  I scored 4 in 4, so that backfired.  There are so many other similarities it’s uncanny.

As for Gary O’Neil, rumour has it at Reading last season, he bollocked Bobby Reid for missing two good chances.  Tomlin stuck up for Reid, and it supposedly went off.  Now I’m not saying O’Neil was right to do that, but it probably shows that he’s a winner.  His lack of games despite tweets that he’s fit are telling imho.

 

We are in a transition with players mate.

You have the likes of GoN who will have been brought up with a different attitude to the under 25's...the Snowflake generation.

Man management these days must be a nightmare.

LJ touched on it recently, when he said the players in the 2008 squad were so different to today's.

They can't deal with a bollocking or someone 'in their face'....it's all about being positive, kind and showing 'love'.

Hard for many of us to deal with, as many of us are so much older.

It's only going to get worse as well.

[BobBobSuperBob]

14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

@BobBobSuperBob will agree that I’ve been saying similar for a good while too.  

 

Can’t recall you saying that Dave 

 

 

 

 

 

you have been of course 

[Xiled]

3 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

The difference is Cotterill had little or no money at Burnley and had to sell his best players every year.

Yet he kept them stable in the Championship and even became the Championship's longest serving manager.

If Cotterill had been backed at AG like LJ has been there's every chance he would have at least got very close to achieving his ambition of taking City to a double promotion. We had a great young team with fantastic spirit and with the momentum and pinpointed additions he had in mind we would have been set up to give the Championship 'a damn good go' as was his plan.

I don't know why you're insisting on comparing a manager in LJ who has achieved absolutely nothing with a proven winner whose managerial record of serial promotions and successful fights against all the odds to avoid relegation with basket case clubs speaks for itself.

How you could think of comparing Cotterill's record unfavourably with Lee Johnson actually beggars belief.

This isn't the thread to continue this particular debate but happy to respond another time. Maybe a thread of SC's Championship results versus LJ's would be a good one for later in the summer.

[Robbored]

4 hours ago, Curr Avon said:

'Boot Room' ethos? Alan, you're havin' a laugh. Bill Shankly created that famous room at Anfield during the 1960s. Shanks had managed four clubs over a decade before moving to Merseyside and comparing Lee Johnson and his inexperienced crew to Liverpool's backroom team, Paisley, Fagan, Bennett and later Geoff Twentyman Senior is comical.

Why not set the bar lower? How about work experience wonderland? Or Project Manager menagerie?

It's the same philosophy that SL wants to develop CA and obviously with less than two years the philosophy is still in its fledgling stage.

As you point out such an ethos can take years but it had to start somewhere.