Critiquing our Recruitment under MA and LJ

[Merrick's Marvels]

2 hours ago, Harry said:

Recruitment is the main responsibility of Mark Ashton. He is in charge of all “off the field matters”. 

Yes, LJ has to buy into what MA and his teams of scouts and analysts are doing, but LJ is not the head which should be on the block for the current recruitment strategy. 

Mark Ashton commands a highly sizeable wage for which he is yet to prove his worth. As the stats say, the volume and quality of players incoming has not been a success to date. Plus, the outgoing fees gained were nothing to do with MA’s recruitment but those of previous regimes. 

Its been well discussed on here that the best XI City would currently field are very very little to do with MA and his recruitment. 

Fielding, Flint, Pack - Burt/Sod

Smith - Burt/Cotterill

Baker - Burt

Bryan, Reid - Youth

Brownhill - LJ (prior connection/management) 

Wright, Paterson, Diedhou - MA/LJ

As pointed out, not much ‘evolution’ in that first team since Ashton took control of recruitment. 

My main point on this thread is going to be this though : Ashton has previous!! We seem to overlook the fact he was also at City for a brief period in 2012 when McInnes was manager. His role at that time was also recruitment. Never has a worse set of players been signed during his brief stint here as back in 2012 under DMC. 

Anyone care to remember Howard, Bates, McManus, Briggs, Danns, Wilson. A collection of loans and freebies that all provided nothing to the first team and went a long way to seeing us feebly depart the championship 4 months after Ashton left us. 

I’m frankly stunned that this bloke has managed to con Lansdown twice into employing him on large wedge. 

We need to find a better system than is currently operated by this ‘man of flannel’. We need to employ a true and proper ‘Head of Scouting’. 

I’ve been involved in scouting for professional football clubs, and I have a very good idea of the players which City have been alerted to but have refused to take an interest in whilst trying to adopt a more ‘unique’ philosophy to recruitment. It’s all a load of tosh that this man has put in place. He’s not up to this job and is winging it in a massive way. 

Whilst I feel LJ needs to buck up his ideas, I am also largely of the opinion that he is being dealt a duff hand by Ashton. 

If there is one head that needs to roll, I am very confident in my opinion of who they should be. 

And Diony was our no.1 target last summer!!!!

On the other hand, I can't believe Ashton just presents players to LJ, or did to DMC for that matter. Surely the manager is agreeing to these signings too? 

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 hour ago, BCFC_Dan said:

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. I certainly don't understand what physical challenges Djuric can't fulfil, other than staying fit for more than a month at a time.

There is an aim, which is a side that plays like Man City. There is reality, which was the squad left by Cotterill. There is the transition between the two which is long, difficult and must be achieved without too much negative impact on results. This requires a certain degree of pragmatism and using players who don't necessarily fit with the end goal.

Try to transition too quickly and you end up like Crystal Palace at the start of the season.

Waffle

 can you explain if we , as you are claiming we are trying to play like Man City , our recruitment , starting with Diedhiou 

 

As for Pisano - ‘Cool Head , solid defensively ‘

Really ?

wow

 

[BCFC_Dan]

15 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Waffle

 can you explain if we , as you are claiming we are trying to play like Man City , our recruitment , starting with Diedhiou 

 

Yes. I can explain it as follows:

It's really bloody difficult to get it right and a lot of the time things will go wrong. Sometimes it's necessary to do things that don't fit in order to not lose every single match you play and get sacked.

 

[BobBobSuperBob]

7 minutes ago, BCFC_Dan said:

Yes. I can explain it as follows:

It's really bloody difficult to get it right and a lot of the time things will go wrong. Sometimes it's necessary to do things that don't fit in order to not lose every single match you play and get sacked.

 

Ok 

Thanks

That explains it

[Cowshed]

2 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

@Cowshed, if you were in charge - which players would you look to sign?

Also, who would you look to sell?

If Bristol City were moving towards a bold passing style similar to ahem Man City then Vorm (cost??), there is also a Keeper in the Netherlands called Bizot (AZ) who looks to have superb distribution to start that base from. 

But I struggle a bit with the If you were in charge ... It could be a hideously long hypothetical post. I prefer the reality of what a team is and at this point its unclear what Mr Johnsons intent is.    

2 hours ago, BCFC_Dan said:

I think what you have identified there is the gap between the ideal and the reality. Which is the point of my argument. A linear progression is right in theory but seldom occurs in reality where other constraints apply, such as the availability of players, budgets, and the balance of the rest of the squad.

Some of the signings were made with the plan in mind. Others, such as the ones you've highlighted, were more likely to be signed to manage the transition. Some, I suspect, were made with the plan in mind but didn't work out, such as Hegeler.

Pisano can't bomb down the flank and contribute to the attack like Kyle Walker can, but he can generally be relied upon to keep a cool head and defend solidly. In the absence of a player who can do both things it's probably preferable to have the latter and not the former, even if it doesn't fit the long-term plan, because it's less likely to lose you games. Same holds true for Diedhiou and Djuric. Fielding, I think probably does need to be replaced but only by the right player at the right time. Again it needs to be someone with the outfield abilities for the ultimate style of play but a reliable enough keeper not to cause immediate problems.

 

A linear progression is right in theory but seldom occurs in reality ... Simply wrong. I will continue to attempt to be polite as I can. Bristol City after 30+ signings and the head coach being in charge for two seasons are not playing as you imply, and are continually signing players whose ability is not always proximal to the development of the style you believe is the long term goal. 

The team has needs. The player needs fits those needs. That type of development happens all of the time. It is normal. 

[And Its Smith]

2 hours ago, Olé said:

I do agree in principle, certainly you couldn't authoritatively describe him as a bad player already, but in the context of other teams in our division, how many of them have spent £1m on a player that would get nowhere near their first team inside 2 years? None to my knowledge. We've done it 3-4 times.

Yes the player is not a failure but the club's judgement is certainly in question. As @billywedlock points out, it's completely disingenuous to say on the one hand we're limited financially in our recruitment, yet on the other hand are regularly spending this sort of sum on a player for that far into the future.

Perhaps I really am behind the times, but spending £1m+ for a "youth team" player to my mind is big 5 territory, not Bristol City. We don't have the luxury to put so much of our transfer budget into recruiting a development squad. For one thing our strike rate on recruitment makes it a lot of money at risk.

Signing Bakinson for £500,000 as the best player out of a highly rated Luton youth academy, with the potential to develop him over a few years, makes sense to me. To me that's a proportionate, risk/reward investment on future development, that represents value for money against our overall budget.

But spending c. £5m across three c. 21 year olds is getting (expensively) caught in no mans land between players that are solely for development, and players that are ready for the first team, i.e. either over-spending on development or under-spending for first team &  getting value for money on neither.

Taylor Moore seems like a good honest professional but there is no way we spent £1m for a 3 year development cycle. We know that because he was involved in games early on in his City career. He's just yet another one LJ and MA got a hard on for, and then realised/decided weren't actually up to it.

I think the idea was to quickly bulk up the youth team to have potentially 3-4 ready in 2/3 years time.  I don’t think there was the believe we had that.  Maybe we won’t see these type of signings commonly now.

Assuming we end up selling the bulk of the players rumoured to be leaving, we either invest wisely and improve, invest okay and stand still or invest poorly and go down.  Maybe a too basic way of putting it but you probably get what I mean.

who knows if these price tags are realistic but something like this would improve us in my opinion and at these fees we end up spending less than we bring in

Out
Luke Steele FREE
Joe Bryan £9m
Bobby Reid £7m
Marlon Pack £8m
Eros Pisano FREE
Gary O’Neil FREE
Jens Hegeler £500k
Cauley Woodrow Loan End
Ryan Kent Loan End
Total £24.5m

In 
Dean Henderson £4m
Anfernee Dijksteel £2m
Mohamed Eisa £1m
Jay DeSilva LOAN
Nick Powell £5m
Teddy Bishop £7m
Hudson Odoi LOAN
Total £19m

[Davefevs]

6 hours ago, Harry said:

Recruitment is the main responsibility of Mark Ashton. He is in charge of all “off the field matters”. 

Yes, LJ has to buy into what MA and his teams of scouts and analysts are doing, but LJ is not the head which should be on the block for the current recruitment strategy. 

Mark Ashton commands a highly sizeable wage for which he is yet to prove his worth. As the stats say, the volume and quality of players incoming has not been a success to date. Plus, the outgoing fees gained were nothing to do with MA’s recruitment but those of previous regimes. 

Its been well discussed on here that the best XI City would currently field are very very little to do with MA and his recruitment. 

Fielding, Flint, Pack - Burt/Sod

Smith - Burt/Cotterill

Baker - Burt

Bryan, Reid - Youth

Brownhill - LJ (prior connection/management) 

Wright, Paterson, Diedhou - MA/LJ

As pointed out, not much ‘evolution’ in that first team since Ashton took control of recruitment. 

My main point on this thread is going to be this though : Ashton has previous!! We seem to overlook the fact he was also at City for a brief period in 2012 when McInnes was manager. His role at that time was also recruitment. Never has a worse set of players been signed during his brief stint here as back in 2012 under DMC. 

Anyone care to remember Howard, Bates, McManus, Briggs, Danns, Wilson. A collection of loans and freebies that all provided nothing to the first team and went a long way to seeing us feebly depart the championship 4 months after Ashton left us. 

I’m frankly stunned that this bloke has managed to con Lansdown twice into employing him on large wedge. 

We need to find a better system than is currently operated by this ‘man of flannel’. We need to employ a true and proper ‘Head of Scouting’. 

I’ve been involved in scouting for professional football clubs, and I have a very good idea of the players which City have been alerted to but have refused to take an interest in whilst trying to adopt a more ‘unique’ philosophy to recruitment. It’s all a load of tosh that this man has put in place. He’s not up to this job and is winging it in a massive way. 

Whilst I feel LJ needs to buck up his ideas, I am also largely of the opinion that he is being dealt a duff hand by Ashton. 

If there is one head that needs to roll, I am very confident in my opinion of who they should be. 

As Zidereyes said welcome back.  Re the bit in bold, I’m so glad you pointed this out.  There was a misconception that MA was behind the recruitment campaign of the summer of 2014.  MA almost said as much, e.g. "I put the recruitment process in place....blah, blah, blah, that led to the successful summer of 2014".  Just sums up the way he works imho!

2 hours ago, Cowshed said:

If Bristol City were moving towards a bold passing style similar to ahem Man City then Vorm (cost??), there is also a Keeper in the Netherlands called Bizot (AZ) who looks to have superb distribution to start that base from. 

But I struggle a bit with the If you were in charge ... It could be a hideously long hypothetical post. I prefer the reality of what a team is and at this point its unclear what Mr Johnsons intent is.    

A linear progression is right in theory but seldom occurs in reality ... Simply wrong. I will continue to attempt to be polite as I can. Bristol City after 30+ signings and the head coach being in charge for two seasons are not playing as you imply, and are continually signing players whose ability is not always proximal to the development of the style you believe is the long term goal. 

The team has needs. The player needs fits those needs. That type of development happens all of the time. It is normal. 

I almost started a thread a while back asking posters to tell us their football hypothesis, but then realised it’s based on so many circumstances.  I know personally at BCFC’s stage of development / maturity I wouldn’t be aiming to replicate Pep.  There’s a reason why our players are in the Championship.  I know you could argue Wolves and Fulham try something similar, but I think they have certain players in key positions that help enable it, e.g. Neves (Wolves). Cairney / Johnansen (Fulham).  We aren’t good enough in many areas to play that way.

[Fuber]

1 hour ago, RedDave said:

I think the idea was to quickly bulk up the youth team to have potentially 3-4 ready in 2/3 years time.  I don’t think there was the believe we had that.  Maybe we won’t see these type of signings commonly now.

Assuming we end up selling the bulk of the players rumoured to be leaving, we either invest wisely and improve, invest okay and stand still or invest poorly and go down.  Maybe a too basic way of putting it but you probably get what I mean.

who knows if these price tags are realistic but something like this would improve us in my opinion and at these fees we end up spending less than we bring in

Out
Luke Steele FREE
Joe Bryan £9m
Bobby Reid £7m
Marlon Pack £8m
Eros Pisano FREE
Gary O’Neil FREE
Jens Hegeler £500k
Cauley Woodrow Loan End
Ryan Kent Loan End
Total £24.5m

In 
Dean Henderson £4m
Anfernee Dijksteel £2m
Mohamed Eisa £1m
Jay DeSilva LOAN
Nick Powell £5m
Teddy Bishop £7m
Hudson Odoi LOAN
Total £19m

Agree with the sentiment @RedDave but I'd point out a few things.

• We'd never get £500k for Hegeler with a year left on his deal, who we signed for £250k, and has done naught all since.
• Steele, O'Neil, I can see. I would keep Pisano for backup and some experience if he want to leave however, then fair enough - mutually terminate the contract.
• Using rumoured current figures as basis; We'd get £7m I reckon for Bryan with a sell on, £8m-10m for Reid with his contribution this season and consistancy, Pack - we'd never get £8m for him, expiring and an Agent that will advert him out. If Wolves come in we'd be lucky to get £4m.
• That would give us a war-chest of £19,000,000.

I wouldn't touch Bishop with his injury problems, same for Powell's fitness issues and his wages (He was rumored to be on £15k in CH with Wigan).

I would agree with signing Dean Henderson - however he's a free agent, so if we spent £4m - I would be absolutely f*cking horrified.
I don't know enough about Dijksteel to take that sort of risk. By comparison Josh Clarke (Brentford) is going into the final year of his contract and experienced at this level - I'd imagine we could get him for a little over £2m and some add ons.
I'd sign a CB in case Flint goes. Someone like Shackell who'd cost around £300-400k going into the final year of his contract who can't expect to play every game would be an experienced head and a good backup option - would also help the likes of Kelly and Vyner with said experience.
Eisa, bit of risk, we'd be lucky to get him for £1m IMO, rather we'd go for someone like Umut Bozok at Nimes who scored 24 goals in 35 games in Ligue 2 at the age of 21, so is also younger albeit more expensive (Around £3m).
For midfield I'd go pretty safe, someone such as David Meyler on a free possibly. Alternatively we could use the loan market, such as Kasey Palmer at Chelsea, or on the same line of thinking, Lewis Baker. I'd also love for us to punt on Kieran Dowell on loan.
If I had to have a marquee signing it would be Jarrod Bowen at Hull, who was linked away for £8m in Jan. Can play on the wing, up top, or behind a striker. And wrecked Bryan in the 5-5 draw.

My other loan signings would probably merely backup i.e. a possible second midfielder, defender (RB). I'd like to keep other recruitment light to give academy players a chance. i.e. Kelly, Vyner, O'Leary, Hinds, Morrell, Andrews.
 

 

[Harry]

36 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

As Zidereyes said welcome back.  Re the bit in bold, I’m so glad you pointed this out.  There was a misconception that MA was behind the recruitment campaign of the summer of 2014.  MA almost said as much, e.g. "I put the recruitment process in place....blah, blah, blah, that led to the successful summer of 2014".  Just sums up the way he works imho!

Thanks Dave. 

Yes, absolutely correct and thanks for getting the crucial point of my post. He was a recruitment consultant in 2012 when we signed a load of dross. Yet he came back in a couple of years ago and claimed to have been the man behind the excellent 2014 recruitment. 

He had bugger all to do with it - Burt was head of recruitment at that stage and believe me, he had his own ways of working (you could call it proper old school) and wouldn’t have believed in Ashton’s processes even if they were still in place. In fact I’d go so far as to say Burt wouldn’t have suffered Ashton gladly. 

This is the perfect example of Ashton’s bluff & bullcrap. He claims responsibility for good signings that were nothing to do with him and has shown absolutely zilch to be proud of himself.

He’s pure flannel and is a big problem. 

[Chivs]

3 hours ago, Cowshed said:

If Bristol City were moving towards a bold passing style similar to ahem Man City then Vorm (cost??), there is also a Keeper in the Netherlands called Bizot (AZ) who looks to have superb distribution to start that base from. 

But I struggle a bit with the If you were in charge ... It could be a hideously long hypothetical post. I prefer the reality of what a team is and at this point its unclear what Mr Johnsons intent is.    

A linear progression is right in theory but seldom occurs in reality ... Simply wrong. I will continue to attempt to be polite as I can. Bristol City after 30+ signings and the head coach being in charge for two seasons are not playing as you imply, and are continually signing players whose ability is not always proximal to the development of the style you believe is the long term goal. 

The team has needs. The player needs fits those needs. That type of development happens all of the time. It is normal. 

Would you care to name a sporting team, anywhere, anytime, that has made a linear progression?

Since this is normal, I guess 21 teams in the Championship have all been unlucky with their linear progression.

[Fuber]

I've updated the table with relative updates and fee changes.

• In order to seem slightly less harsh, I've put in an intermediate bracket for players who aren't proven at CH level, i.e. have no had the chance, there are one or two exceptions.
• Eliasson, Taylor, Moore, and Walsh added to the 'Not Proven' Bracket.
• Bailey Wright rightly promoted to the potential bracket, however I will note that in relation to his preferred position we can't draw any conclusion, he's only played around 7 games in his two years at RCB.
• O'Dowda and Baker promotedto green,  as they are arguably successful signings. But I will note as with Paterson neither has performed well in the last 4 months.
• Wright's fee reduced from £2,000,000 to £600,000, a rough average from the feedback received in this thread.
• Yellow catagorised player are the current signing's we can possible at minimum (possibly) break even on.
• Red players includes those no longer at the club. Some as an example names circumstances at the time as a factor - If we're signing short term signings, then surely that points to the longer term targets and development players not progressing as required? Also afaik Cotterill has 2 good games and was pony for the rest of his spell. Golbourne was completely unspectacular.
• I've added a seperate totals bracket to include a placeholder section for loan fees as they can't be exempt from this sample study with no financial bearing when they obviously incurred some kind of cost, we just don't know the degree of the latter.

So to recap.

1. Hopefully this solves the majority's issues with the original posting, it was harsh I agree, and hope this now gives a fairer reflection.
2. The recruitment overall is still very poor, if you could give constructive criticism, what would it be.
3. And finally, remember, I've gone to the trouble of making the chart based off of some of my own thoughts, so like any opinion it depends on the viewers context and applying their own criteria and adjudging the signings for themselves. It merely highlights my thoughts.

[The Bard]

See below

 

[The Bard]

13 minutes ago, Harry said:

Thanks Dave. 

Yes, absolutely correct and thanks for getting the crucial point of my post. He was a recruitment consultant in 2012 when we signed a load of dross. Yet he came back in a couple of years ago and claimed to have been the man behind the excellent 2014 recruitment. 

He had bugger all to do with it - Burt was head of recruitment at that stage and believe me, he had his own ways of working (you could call it proper old school) and wouldn’t have believed in Ashton’s processes even if they were still in place. In fact I’d go so far as to say Burt wouldn’t have suffered Ashton gladly. 

This is the perfect example of Ashton’s bluff & bullcrap. He claims responsibility for good signings that were nothing to do with him and has shown absolutely zilch to be proud of himself.

He’s pure flannel and is a big problem. 

[Harry]

Interesting to see Jarrod Bowen mentioned by a few people as a marquee signing. 

Guess what. Our scouts watched and highly recommended him a few years ago when he was a youngster at Hereford. Well done Hull for coming knocking and picking him up for £50k. Oh what a bargain that looks now. 

Once again, a talented youngster, near enough on our doorstep, available for peanuts, whom the hierarchy in the club were fully aware of, dilly-dallied, couldn’t decide if he was worth it and so didn’t ******* bother. 

God, there have been so many in the last few years. And we’re literally getting worse at it under this fraud Ashton. 

Just wait. The next one we miss on will be Jack Sparkes at Exeter. We’ve watched him since he was 13, but we won’t ever bother taking the chance as our current strategy is to find a worse player for 10 times the price in Scandinavia. 

[Fuber]

13 minutes ago, Chivs said:

Would you care to name a sporting team, anywhere, anytime, that has made a linear progression?

Since this is normal, I guess 21 teams in the Championship have all been unlucky with their linear progression.

Brighton chivs? The only dark mark on their progression was following the resignation of Garcia and appointing the unproven Sami Hyppia (Who was former Leverkusen manager at the time and looked a semi decent appointment).

Their net spend per season over the last 5 years has been around £3m per season with most of that spending coming in their last two years in the championship sorting out Hyppia's poor spell.

Actually it really highlights what a fantastic job Hughton has done. Spent much less than we have the last two years and got them promoted in a very competitive league battling with Newcastle most of the way.

[redcherryberry]

18 minutes ago, Harry said:

Thanks Dave. 

Yes, absolutely correct and thanks for getting the crucial point of my post. He was a recruitment consultant in 2012 when we signed a load of dross. Yet he came back in a couple of years ago and claimed to have been the man behind the excellent 2014 recruitment. 

He had bugger all to do with it - Burt was head of recruitment at that stage and believe me, he had his own ways of working (you could call it proper old school) and wouldn’t have believed in Ashton’s processes even if they were still in place. In fact I’d go so far as to say Burt wouldn’t have suffered Ashton gladly. 

This is the perfect example of Ashton’s bluff & bullcrap. He claims responsibility for good signings that were nothing to do with him and has shown absolutely zilch to be proud of himself.

He’s pure flannel and is a big problem. 

What was it Ashton told us Har in 2012 - "All football matters go through me"?!?

Bournemouth want Ollie btw. Now that annoys me!!! 

[simon uk]

The other issue that no ones considering is that for example we signed taylor moore who is a young right sided defender, when we already knew vyner was a good prospect in the same position, then we sign bailey wright as neither are ready, and then bakinson was brought in when we had morrell and dowling. 

Then we end up signing elliason, leko and kent to compete with odowda, who was competing with bryan for a role. 

Im inclined to question what the plan is when there are only so many first team places available?

even Magnússon was signed, and then baker signed as well to replace him when that didnt work out.

[Rob k]

14 minutes ago, Harry said:

Interesting to see Jarrod Bowen mentioned by a few people as a marquee signing. 

Guess what. Our scouts watched and highly recommended him a few years ago when he was a youngster at Hereford. Well done Hull for coming knocking and picking him up for £50k. Oh what a bargain that looks now. 

Once again, a talented youngster, near enough on our doorstep, available for peanuts, whom the hierarchy in the club were fully aware of, dilly-dallied, couldn’t decide if he was worth it and so didn’t ******* bother. 

God, there have been so many in the last few years. And we’re literally getting worse at it under this fraud Ashton. 

Just wait. The next one we miss on will be Jack Sparkes at Exeter. We’ve watched him since he was 13, but we won’t ever bother taking the chance as our current strategy is to find a worse player for 10 times the price in Scandinavia. 

Where have we seen that before I wonder with that exact same club and more or less exact same example!! It’s a joke 

[Rob k]

1 minute ago, simon uk said:

The other issue that no ones considering is that for example we signed taylor moore who is a young right sided defender, when we already knew vyner was a good prospect in the same position, and then bakinson was brought in when we had morrell and dowling. 

Then we end up signing elliason, leko and kent to compete with odowda, who was competing with bryan for a role. 

Im inclined to question what the plan is when there are only so many first team places available?

even Magnússon was signed, and then baker signed as well to replace him when that didnt work out.

Baker was signed to replace Flint I’m lead to believe 

[Cowshed]

8 minutes ago, Chivs said:

Would you care to name a sporting team, anywhere, anytime, that has made a linear progression?

Since this is normal, I guess 21 teams in the Championship have all been unlucky with their linear progression.

Liverpool. Mr Klopp recruits players to fit the style the team will primarily play. Man City. Mr Guardiola recruits players to fit the style the team will primarily play. Both teams have clear playing styles. Both teams have recruited players who can play at high tempos, press in units with energy ... Man City under Guardiola almost instantly moved out Joe Hart in order to move towards playing easily out from the back , play higher, press higher aided by a new Keeper acting as a pivot and sweeper  = stage A and on that progressed.

Yes it is normal in the championship for teams to recruit for how they play. It is rather stupid to suggest otherwise. Mr Warnock brought in players swiftly to fit the system he wanted the team to play. 

 

 

 

 

 

[exAtyeoMax]

7 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Liverpool. Mr Klopp recruits players to fit the style the team will primarily play. Man City. Mr Guardiola recruits players to fit the style the team will primarily play. Both teams have clear playing styles. Both teams have recruited players who can play at high tempos, press in units with energy ... Man City under Guardiola almost instantly moved out Joe Hart in order to move towards playing easily out from the back , play higher, press higher aided by a new Keeper acting as a pivot and sweeper  = stage A and on that progressed.

Yes it is normal in the championship for teams to recruit for how they play. It is rather stupid to suggest otherwise. Mr Warnock brought in players swiftly to fit the system he wanted the team to play. 

 

 

 

 

 

Like Cotts did…?

[Maggersno1Fan]

“The ultimate decision falls with Steve. He owns the football club. But he is always and continues to be supportive," he explained.

 

 

[Olé]

Question for the qualified accountants 

Can the club delay the amortisation of any player that they buy who hasn't become established in the first team? The strategy would make more sense then, although the write offs could end up being quick and even more immeditate later.

@Fuber that graph I mentioned earlier, looking at the graph in your new post, could you at least add a new line to show the "amortisation" effect, ie how much of that spend hits the first team and when. Obviously the line will be lower and later than the other, but by how much? Taylor Moore played quite soon. I think it would be a really interesting perspective on how we spend our supposedly limited funds.  

 

[Chivs]

9 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Liverpool. Mr Klopp recruits players to fit the style the team will primarily play. Man City. Mr Guardiola recruits players to fit the style the team will primarily play. Both teams have clear playing styles. Both teams have recruited players who can play at high tempos, press in units with energy ... Man City under Guardiola almost instantly moved out Joe Hart in order to move towards playing easily out from the back , play higher, press higher aided by a new Keeper acting as a pivot and sweeper  = stage A and on that progressed.

Yes it is normal in the championship for teams to recruit for how they play. It is rather stupid to suggest otherwise. Mr Warnock brought in players swiftly to fit the system he wanted the team to play. 

 

 

 

 

 

You happen to have picked 2 of the most successful, and hence rich, teams as examples.  I'm wondering why all those Evertons and WBAs and Stokes aren't making linear porgression. Perhaps, just perhaps, there is more to management than sub-David Brent truisms.

However, I agree it is rather stupid that teams do not recruit for how they play. Why then do you constantly suggest that Johnson is not recruiting this way?  Are you suggesting he is stupid?

[Davefevs]

25 minutes ago, redcherryberry said:

What was it Ashton told us Har in 2012 - "All football matters go through me"?!?

Bournemouth want Ollie btw. Now that annoys me!!! 

Welcome to the ballgame RCB 

5 minutes ago, Olé said:

Question for the qualified accountants 

Can the club delay the amortisation of any player that they buy who hasn't become established in the first team? The strategy would make more sense then, although the write offs could end up being quick and even more immeditate later.

@Fuber that graph I mentioned earlier, looking at the graph in your new post, could you at least add a new line to show the "amortisation" effect, ie how much of that spend hits the first team and when. Obviously the line will be lower and later than the other, but by how much? Taylor Moore played quite soon. I think it would be a really interesting perspective on how we spend our supposedly limited funds.  

 

I’m no accountant, but I think @LondonBristolian Might be in that part of financial services.  Pretty sure the amortisation policy is in the annual accounts.  In fact here you go.

[Chivs]

40 minutes ago, Fuber said:

Brighton chivs? The only dark mark on their progression was following the resignation of Garcia and appointing the unproven Sami Hyppia (Who was former Leverkusen manager at the time and looked a semi decent appointment).

Their net spend per season over the last 5 years has been around £3m per season with most of that spending coming in their last two years in the championship sorting out Hyppia's poor spell.

Actually it really highlights what a fantastic job Hughton has done. Spent much less than we have the last two years and got them promoted in a very competitive league battling with Newcastle most of the way.

That's not a bad example although you can hardly claim linear progression when they went from 6th to 20th to 3rd, as you note.

But I suggest that your Brighton example is far from normal.  Otherwise, we'd all be staying in the same position every year as we all get a bit better...

By the way, using your criteria of league position,do you agree that LJ's period shows linear progression?

[BobBobSuperBob]

29 minutes ago, Chivs said:

You happen to have picked 2 of the most successful, and hence rich, teams as examples.  I'm wondering why all those Evertons and WBAs and Stokes aren't making linear porgression. Perhaps, just perhaps, there is more to management than sub-David Brent truisms.

However, I agree it is rather stupid that teams do not recruit for how they play. Why then do you constantly suggest that Johnson is not recruiting this way?  Are you suggesting he is stupid?

 

You tell us 

You’re the one who thinks he can do no wrong 

[Cowshed]

37 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

Like Cotts did…?

Yes. 

 

33 minutes ago, Chivs said:

You happen to have picked 2 of the most successful, and hence rich, teams as examples.  I'm wondering why all those Evertons and WBAs and Stokes aren't making linear porgression. Perhaps, just perhaps, there is more to management than sub-David Brent truisms.

However, I agree it is rather stupid that teams do not recruit for how they play. Why then do you constantly suggest that Johnson is not recruiting this way?  Are you suggesting he is stupid?

I picked two examples of great football allied to philosophy. Another was Cardiff.  

Why then do you constantly suggest that Johnson is not recruiting this way? I have gone beyond suggesting in answer to a poster suggesting BCFC are creating a Guardiola-esque team that Bristol City are not recruiting to that aim.

Do you think Mr Johnson (note I call him Mr not stupid) is recruiting players for a Guardiola-esque team?

 

 

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 minute ago, Cowshed said:

Yes. 

 

I picked two examples of great football allied to philosophy. Another was Cardiff.  

Why then do you constantly suggest that Johnson is not recruiting this way? I have gone beyond suggesting in answer to a posters suggesting BCFC are creating a Guardiola-esque team Bristol City are not recruiting to that aim.

Do you think Mr Johnson (note I call him Mr not stupid) is recruiting players for a Guardiola-esque team?

 

 

He’s obviously not bothered to read your numerous long explanatory posts on this

Or unable to understand them

[Davefevs]

23 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Yes. 

 

I picked two examples of great football allied to philosophy. Another was Cardiff.  

Why then do you constantly suggest that Johnson is not recruiting this way? I have gone beyond suggesting in answer to a poster suggesting BCFC are creating a Guardiola-esque team that Bristol City are not recruiting to that aim.

Do you think Mr Johnson (note I call him Mr not stupid) is recruiting players for a Guardiola-esque team?