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Critiquing our Recruitment under MA and LJ

Fuber

By Fuber
in Football Chat

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bcfcredandwhite

bcfcredandwhite

Posted
Posted

I flicked through this without reading all the posts, but it’s refreshing to see a thread that isn’t just mindless Johnson-bashing and with some interesting debates going on. 

For me, the most bizarre signing of all was Diony. Either his agent works for Carlsberg, or he is actually good in training but loses it when playing the real deal. 

We only saw him in a competitive game but Lee watches him in training and still picked him. Now, whatever you think of Lee he is not stupid - but picking Diony ahead of the alternatives was total madness. 

I cant believe that the guy is simply shite - he wouldn’t have got this far. I recon he must have a serious issue with nerves. Either way he has been the worst signing imho. 

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Davefevs

Davefevs

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2 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Tbf Diony mastered the spin and slide zone , (normally without the ball)

And Kent certainly went down like a bomb in those alleys

The problem is since Xmas we’ve Kicking from top to bottom!!

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Fuber

Fuber

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1 hour ago, Olé said:

Question for the qualified accountants :online2long:

Can the club delay the amortisation of any player that they buy who hasn't become established in the first team? The strategy would make more sense then, although the write offs could end up being quick and even more immeditate later.

@Fuber that graph I mentioned earlier, looking at the graph in your new post, could you at least add a new line to show the "amortisation" effect, ie how much of that spend hits the first team and when. Obviously the line will be lower and later than the other, but by how much? Taylor Moore played quite soon. I think it would be a really interesting perspective on how we spend our supposedly limited funds.  

 

That would depends Ole. What would be the initiation point for recognising signings as 'hitting the first team'? I think it would all but match overall cumulative signing fee graph i.e. Golbourne. It would only be development signings effected.

As you mention, Moore played pretty soon after signing and its the same with O;Dowda, Eliasson, Walsh, Hinds (albeit in cup).

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Lrrr

Lrrr

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Posted
1 hour ago, Chivs said:

You happen to have picked 2 of the most successful, and hence rich, teams as examples.  I'm wondering why all those Evertons and WBAs and Stokes aren't making linear porgression. Perhaps, just perhaps, there is more to management than sub-David Brent truisms.

However, I agree it is rather stupid that teams do not recruit for how they play. Why then do you constantly suggest that Johnson is not recruiting this way?  Are you suggesting he is stupid?

Brentford? 4 successive higher finishes, clear recruitment strategy.

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Fuber

Fuber

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2 minutes ago, hodge said:

Brentford? 4 successive higher finishes, clear recruitment strategy.

So on the face of it for the championship, taking into account single season outliers or exceptions, and historical examples in recent years;

  • Brentfod
  • Brighton
  • Preston

I'd also add Bournemouth, Swansea, Burnley, Southampton, and Reading @Chivs; all historically had some degree of year on year progression with one or two single season exceptions.

 

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Chivs

Chivs

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15 minutes ago, Fuber said:

So on the face of it for the championship, taking into account single season outliers or exceptions, and historical examples in recent years;

  • Brentfod
  • Brighton
  • Preston

I'd also add Bournemouth, Swansea, Burnley, Southampton, and Reading @Chivs; all historically had some degree of year on year progression with one or two single season exceptions.

 

Again, Brentford is a great example.  I also think they use some sort of algorithm to recruit players so that is an approach that is in the @Cowshed mode.

You are really scraping the barrel with your other suggestions.  Swansea and Southampton have hardly made progress this year.

Irrespective of the above, you are just reinforcing my suggestion that "linear progression" is not normal.

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Chivs

Chivs

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1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

Yes. 

 

I picked two examples of great football allied to philosophy. Another was Cardiff.  

Why then do you constantly suggest that Johnson is not recruiting this way? I have gone beyond suggesting in answer to a poster suggesting BCFC are creating a Guardiola-esque team that Bristol City are not recruiting to that aim.

Do you think Mr Johnson (note I call him Mr not stupid) is recruiting players for a Guardiola-esque team?

 

 

Guardiola has managed some of the wealthiest teams on the planet.  Are you getting the common theme now?

And, no, I don't believe Mr Johnson is stupid and believes he could do a Pep with the resources available to him.

1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

He’s obviously not bothered to read your numerous long explanatory posts on this

Or unable to understand them

To be honest, I genuinely don't understand most of @Cowshed's pseudo-science, David Brent, statements.

So, you are at least half right with your post which is a 50% improvement over most.  Well done.

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Fuber

Fuber

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32 minutes ago, Chivs said:

Again, Brentford is a great example.  I also think they use some sort of algorithm to recruit players so that is an approach that is in the @Cowshed mode.

You are really scraping the barrel with your other suggestions.  Swansea and Southampton have hardly made progress this year.

Irrespective of the above, you are just reinforcing my suggestion that "linear progression" is not normal.

I was referencing their time specifically in the championship. I.e. Reading from 2000-2007, Swansea until 2015, Southampton until 2016, etc.

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Fuber

Fuber

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46 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

This has become a very interesting thread.

Was Ashton being used in a ‘consultancy’ role in the summer of 2015 when deals for Maguire, Grey and Gayle fell through?

I beleive he left prior to the amazing 2014 window that he 'set the groundwork for' before he returned in Jan 2016.

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FlintSaidNo

FlintSaidNo

Posted
Posted

Think these are very harsh, my ratings (on a scale of +2 to -2):

  • Scott Golbourne - -1
  • Josh Brownhill - 2
  • Gary O’Neil - 1
  • Lee Tomlin - -1
  • Diego De Girolamo - -2
  • Hörður Magnússon - 1
  • Callum O’Dowda - 2
  • Ivan Lucic - 0
  • Adam Matthews - -1
  • Tammy Abraham - 2
  • Taylor Moore - 0
  • Jamie Paterson - 2
  • Gustav Engvall - -2
  • Joel Ekstrand - -2
  • Milan Djuric - 1
  • Jens Hegeler - 1
  • Bailey Wright - 2
  • Fabian Giefer - -1
  • Matty Taylor - 1
  • Freddie Hinds - 0
  • Tin Plavotic - 0
  • David Cotterill - 1
  • Famara Diedhiou - 2
  • Eros Pisano - 1
  • Nathan Baker - 2
  • Niclas Eliasson - 0
  • Cauley Woodrow - -1
  • Jonathan Leko - -2
  • Luke Steele - 1
  • Tyreeq Bakinson - 0
  • Rory Holden - 0
  • Antoine Semenyo - 0
  • Liam Walsh - 0
  • Ryan Kent - -2
  • Lois Diony - -2

Total - +4, so just about in credit overall, though it is concerning just how many players are on that list

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Cowshed

Cowshed

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8 hours ago, Chivs said:

Guardiola has managed some of the wealthiest teams on the planet.  Are you getting the common theme now?

And, no, I don't believe Mr Johnson is stupid and believes he could do a Pep with the resources available to him.

 

I simply answered a post that said Bristol City are moving towards Guardiola-esque football. 

Do you think Mr Johnson is recruiting players for a Guardiola-esque team?

Your post is a mite rude because you have not acknowledged points, or the above question. Mr Guardiola  has progressed teams methodically in a linear fashion via recruiting key players / adding to them. At Man City one of his first actions was to bring in Bravo to replace Hart (Englands number1) which mirrors  the use of Neur/Bravo/Valdes at other yes rich clubs, but without this first stage A being in place or purchased Mr Guardiola cannot pursue his football as the Keeper is integral to that football - Its high lines, its high pressing lines, the way they reset possession.

That theme, that method is commonplace for the hyper rich and otherwise . You buy and develop to what you intend to be. It is a process of A-B-C.

 

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Davefevs

Davefevs

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5 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

This has become a very interesting thread.

Was Ashton being used in a ‘consultancy’ role in the summer of 2015 when deals for Maguire, Grey and Gayle fell through?

It is believed to be a John Pelling’s meddling....he moved on quickly afterwards.

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Davefevs

Davefevs

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18 minutes ago, Sixtyseconds said:

It has.

But has anybody else noticed Lee Johnson wearing the same jumper Pep does?

The team plays bugger all like Man City but Johnson God bless him looks smart.

 

 

Never seen Pep in Brown Shoes :whistle:

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spudski

spudski

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11 hours ago, Harry said:

Interesting to see Jarrod Bowen mentioned by a few people as a marquee signing. 

Guess what. Our scouts watched and highly recommended him a few years ago when he was a youngster at Hereford. Well done Hull for coming knocking and picking him up for £50k. Oh what a bargain that looks now. 

Once again, a talented youngster, near enough on our doorstep, available for peanuts, whom the hierarchy in the club were fully aware of, dilly-dallied, couldn’t decide if he was worth it and so didn’t ******* bother. 

God, there have been so many in the last few years. And we’re literally getting worse at it under this fraud Ashton. 

Just wait. The next one we miss on will be Jack Sparkes at Exeter. We’ve watched him since he was 13, but we won’t ever bother taking the chance as our current strategy is to find a worse player for 10 times the price in Scandinavia. 

Completely agree mate.

I'd be getting MA out of the recruitment side. Let him deal with negotiating contracts etc...but the amount of times they ignore sound good advice on players has now become a joke.

The last manager we had that was really receptive to good advice on players, with no pre conceived ideas, and willing to listen without blinkers was SoD.

We need a better head of recruitment.

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Davefevs

Davefevs

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4 minutes ago, spudski said:

Completely agree mate.

I'd be getting MA out of the recruitment side. Let him deal with negotiating contracts etc...but the amount of times they ignore sound good advice on players has now become a joke.

The last manager we had that was really receptive to good advice on players, with no pre conceived ideas, and willing to listen without blinkers was SoD.

We need a better head of recruitment.

Would SOD make a good DoF?

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spudski

spudski

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Would SOD make a good DoF?

Most definitely ... especially with our blueprint now.

He's working with Wolves academy now though.

He listened to everyone who gave good advice. He doesn't suffer fools, but is not blinkered, and doesn't only work with certain 'preferred' scouts and agents.

He will listen, and make a judgement as to whether you know your onions...and take on all advice and recommendations, and won't just dismiss them, which so many do.

You need people with open minds and not closed.

As soon as you work with only 'preferred'  people, you limit your pond from which to fish from.

Just keep him away from the press and fans :laugh:

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The Dolman Pragmatist

The Dolman Pragmatist

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1 hour ago, FlintSaidNo said:

Think these are very harsh, my ratings (on a scale of +2 to -2):

  • Scott Golbourne - -1
  • Josh Brownhill - 2
  • Gary O’Neil - 1
  • Lee Tomlin - -1
  • Diego De Girolamo - -2
  • Hörður Magnússon - 1
  • Callum O’Dowda - 2
  • Ivan Lucic - 0
  • Adam Matthews - -1
  • Tammy Abraham - 2
  • Taylor Moore - 0
  • Jamie Paterson - 2
  • Gustav Engvall - -2
  • Joel Ekstrand - -2
  • Milan Djuric - 1
  • Jens Hegeler - 1
  • Bailey Wright - 2
  • Fabian Giefer - -1
  • Matty Taylor - 1
  • Freddie Hinds - 0
  • Tin Plavotic - 0
  • David Cotterill - 1
  • Famara Diedhiou - 2
  • Eros Pisano - 1
  • Nathan Baker - 2
  • Niclas Eliasson - 0
  • Cauley Woodrow - -1
  • Jonathan Leko - -2
  • Luke Steele - 1
  • Tyreeq Bakinson - 0
  • Rory Holden - 0
  • Antoine Semenyo - 0
  • Liam Walsh - 0
  • Ryan Kent - -2
  • Lois Diony - -2

Total - +4, so just about in credit overall, though it is concerning just how many players are on that list

Wasn't Golbourne signed before Johnson arrived?   I thought Pemberton signed him.   Your ratings are pretty reasonable, though I'd score Tomlin higher given his role in saving us from relegation during his period on loan with us, and in the first half of the next season.  True, it turned out badly, but for me he's still a +1 on your scale.

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