Critiquing our Recruitment under MA and LJ

[BobBobSuperBob]

7 minutes ago, spudski said:

Brownhill was walking around the Waterfront on Saturday on his own...just wandering aimlessly. He looked a lonely lad.

Have a feeling he’s in Dubai on his own, spends most of his time in coffe shops or eateries in Bristol , sometimes with Hegeler

Doesnt seem to be part of the ‘hub’

(He lives down on the waterfront)

 

[FlintSaidNo]

26 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Wasn't Golbourne signed before Johnson arrived?   I thought Pemberton signed him.   Your ratings are pretty reasonable, though I'd score Tomlin higher given his role in saving us from relegation during his period on loan with us, and in the first half of the next season.  True, it turned out badly, but for me he's still a +1 on your scale.

Don’t know about Golbourne, I just used the players on the original post. I can see your point about Tomlin, I marked him down because I feel like his influence off the pitch bought the overall team performances down

[RedM]

33 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I see the usual gang are over in Vegas again

Josh B who doesn’t seem to form part of our crazy gang is in Dubai

Eliasson is in Brazil

BW is in Mykonos 

Hörður Mykynos

 

 

 

 

And  am I reading too much into Joe Bryan’s Post and picture 

 

Vegas is Mark Little’s stag do. Wright and Mags getting ready for the World Cup. Who is that far right with glasses, not Freeman is it? Interestingly can’t see Cunningham there, he usually goes!

[ZiderEyed]

Is Cunningham there?

[Cowshed]

10 hours ago, Chivs said:

Guardiola

Chivs a wonder of forums is that you can see who is lurking at the bottom of the page.

You are reading this thread consistently.

For the third time. 

Do you think Mr Johnson is recruiting players for a Guardiola-esque team?

[Phileas Fogg]

51 minutes ago, RedM said:

Vegas is Mark Little’s stag do. Wright and Mags getting ready for the World Cup. Who is that far right with glasses, not Freeman is it? Interestingly can’t see Cunningham there, he usually goes!

Freeman on the far right.

Good to see Bristol City legend and integral part of the promotion squad Simon Cox also there.

[RedM]

6 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Freeman on the far right.

Good to see Bristol City legend and integral part of the promotion squad Simon Cox also there.

Yes, Simon always appears on these trips, strange isn’t it.

[Cowshed]

43 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Chivs a wonder of forums is that you can see who is lurking at the bottom of the page.

You are reading this thread consistently.

For the third time. 

Do you think Mr Johnson is recruiting players for a Guardiola-esque team?

@Chivs

You are again being displayed as recently browsing. 

Fourth time.

Do you think Mr Johnson is recruiting players for a Guardiola-esque team?

 

[Phileas Fogg]

4 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

@Chivs

You are again being displayed as recently browsing. 

Fourth time.

Do you think Mr Johnson is recruiting players for a Guardiola-esque team?

 

Why are you being weird about this?

[BobBobSuperBob]

47 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Freeman on the far right.

Good to see Bristol City legend and integral part of the promotion squad Simon Cox also there.

Good spot that mate

 

I couldn’t work out who it was 

[Chivs]

44 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

@Chivs

You are again being displayed as recently browsing. 

Fourth time.

Do you think Mr Johnson is recruiting players for a Guardiola-esque team?

 

I thought I answered that in post #108?!?

Quote

And, no, I don't believe Mr Johnson is stupid and believes he could do a Pep with the resources available to him.

Mr Guardiola has managed pretty much the best team in each country where he has managed.  It's not hard to set your terms in those circumstances.

Mr Johnson has to cut his cloth appropriately as Head coach of a middling team.  That's how things work in reality.  Maybe get your head out of the latest FA management book?

[Mr Popodopolous]

10 minutes ago, Chivs said:

 I thought I answered that in post #108?!?

Mr Guardiola has managed pretty much the best team in each country where he has managed.  It's not hard to set your terms in those circumstances.

 Mr Johnson has to cut his cloth appropriately as Head coach of a middling team.  That's how things work in reality.  Maybe get your head out of the latest FA management book?

Still, regardless- we can work towards that ethos if not necessarily style of play.

Short passing, 4-3-3, intense pressing- though perhaps amended for us to pressing at the right times.

Diedhiou unless it's using  as a lone striker wouldn't fit this as a starting striker. 4-4-2 with wingers is a long, long way from a Guardiola philosophy. Not saying he doesn't have his uses, he certainly does but not in that context. Unless for example he was the lone striker in a 4-3-3 with wingers and technical midfielders, but definitely no in the current setup. Guardiola has never played 4-4-2, his view of the game is a million miles from our current setup (even factoring in the wealth plus the fact he had La Masia and a great crop at his disposal). What about Fulham? Brentford? They are closer by far than we are (which isn't to say they are close in reality, but it's about comparing most relevant examples) to that ideal.

[Cowshed]

1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Why are you being weird about this?

Weird or expecting a courtesy on a forum for debate? 

The poster has avoided repeatedly a simple question. 

I have answered the posters points and questions to the best of my ability his/hers underlining rudeness. 

41 minutes ago, Chivs said:

I thought I answered that in post #108?!?

Mr Guardiola has managed pretty much the best team in each country where he has managed.  It's not hard to set your terms in those circumstances.

Mr Johnson has to cut his cloth appropriately as Head coach of a middling team.  That's how things work in reality.  Maybe get your head out of the latest FA management book?

No you did not answer the question. A poster has pointed out it is possible to work towards that ethos. Academy teams as I have pointed out use similar patterns of play particularly at goal kicks.

It does not cost hundreds of millions to work towards passing the ball shorter, or looking to overload the opposition in midfield.

That is not financed based or being among the best. It is intent.

The XI? It was possible to see patterns of play,  inclusion of particular players leading to offensive and defensive  approach that is a little Guardiloa - esque, but as other posters point out these similarities are nullified, or not practical due to other players. The underling real identity is not evident.

Maybe get your head out of the latest FA management book? Well done another thin insult. 

 

[Phileas Fogg]

1 minute ago, Cowshed said:

Weird or expecting a courtesy on a forum for debate? 

The poster has avoided repeatedly a simple question. 

I have answered the posters points and questions to the best of my ability posts to the best of my ability despite his/hers underlining rudeness. 

Just thought it was a very odd approach. There’s loads of reasons why someone might not reply as quickly as you want. It’s just a football forum, wouldn’t take it so seriously.

 

[exAtyeoMax]

4 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Never seen Pep in Brown Shoes 

or an Arthur Daley coat…

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Just thought it was a very odd approach. There’s loads of reasons why someone might not reply as quickly as you want. It’s just a football forum, wouldn’t take it so seriously.

 

Don’t say that 

[Cowshed]

1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Just thought it was a very odd approach. There’s loads of reasons why someone might not reply as quickly as you want. It’s just a football forum, wouldn’t take it so seriously.

 

The poster is quick to insult. Plenty of time for that ... If I took it so seriously I may suggest that the poster in question did not have the wit and wisdom to answer the question an another has,.

 

[Trueredsupporter]

21 hours ago, Chivs said:

Guardiola has managed some of the wealthiest teams on the planet.  Are you getting the common theme now?

And, no, I don't believe Mr Johnson is stupid and believes he could do a Pep with the resources available to him.

 

That doesnt make sense at all. You do not have be Man City to buy players to suit your style of football. 

[Cowshed]

11 hours ago, Trueredsupporte said:

That doesnt make sense at all. You do not have be Man City to buy players to suit your style of football. 

I would have thought it was obvious. 

You want high pressing and high tempo, you want a team running 120 km a game buy the players for it. 

And having players who can run their % of that 120 km is the start of that (linear) progression Chivs.

If the team does not have this defined plan A, and some teams only have an A you see questionable recruitment as highlighted in the very first post.

[Fuber]

Figured Id resurrect this.

Seeming as we've had time to analyse since I last added to it. Ill update it tonight.

[Redland]

Despite LJ signing 35 players 6 of our first choice starting eleven last year were here when Lee arrived. Now we are selling off the remainder of the Cotts promotion squad I am concerned about where we will go from here. Based on previous LJ signings (with a couple of exceptions) I have little confidence that players like Aden and Bobby will be replaced with better, or even similar, quality. There is also the issue of the team spirit which existed within the old promotion squad which is so important in the making of any successful football team.  I hope my concerns prove unfounded  but only time will tell.   

[numbeast]

Redland this team spirit, is that the spirit that plunged us into the bottom 3 under Cotts,  went on a record losing streak the next season and crashed and burned after Christmas? Yes there is a sense of the group being great mates but that doesn't always equate to success. When you think of Cole and Sheringham that was a great partnership despite disliking each other. 

As for any new signings being of similar or better quality that remains to be seen, although I understand the trepidation. It could be we needed a clear out, and bringing in new blood could also bring a new hunger. Let's hope we can recruit players who will help make the squad better than the sum of it parts.

[Phileas Fogg]

11 hours ago, numbeast said:

Redland this team spirit, is that the spirit that plunged us into the bottom 3 under Cotts,  went on a record losing streak the next season and crashed and burned after Christmas? Yes there is a sense of the group being great mates but that doesn't always equate to success.

Agreed. There does seem to be a bit of rose tinting that happens when looking at the promotion side. I feel like Ayling is seen on here as a far better player now he's left than he was when he was actually here..

I also notice that there seems to be this narrative that LJ is trying to rip up and destroy that promotion side.. the double winning season was 3 years ago now. I can't think of many teams that retain 5 or 6 first teamers for longer than a few seasons. The life cycle of football is quite short. Seems like a fairly normal turnover to me.

Would've been interesting to see how that group would've done had we managed to get the likes of Maguire or Andre Grey.. but the point is we didn't. 

 

[TonyTonyTony]

My biggest concern at the moment is this. I understand the business side of cashing in on AF, BR, HM and JB. The issue is cashing them in right at the beginning and then appearing cash rich when trying to buy their replacements. Price goes up. Far better to get players in first then sell. Then again what do I know 

[numbeast]

On 28/06/2018 at 12:48, TonyTonyTony said:

My biggest concern at the moment is this. I understand the business side of cashing in on AF, BR, HM and JB. The issue is cashing them in right at the beginning and then appearing cash rich when trying to buy their replacements. Price goes up. Far better to get players in first then sell. Then again what do I know 

I see your logic but with all the speculation selling clubs will know roughly how much we'll bring in for the likes of Flint Reid and Bryan. With agents and social media nowadays keeping a valuation or a players desire to leave in house is pretty much impossible.

For this reason I don't see the point of "undisclosed" fees. Likewise clubs get away with "tapping players up" just by a call to the agent. They don't even have to mention a name just his club and position.

[Robin1988]

I know this has been done by the OP and again on the last page, but I think the reasons why certain transfers haven't worked is important.

Leaving aside yellows and greens, the players who have flopped in five transfer windows since MA returned:

1. Golbourne - on loan at MK Dons

2. O'Donnell - Sold within a year (I liked him)

3. Ben Gladwin (loan) - Barely played

4. Alex Pearce (loan) - Maybe a little harsh but never looked great

5. GON - Barely played, on big wages, apparently not the calming/mature influence we hoped

6. Tomlin - A waste of space the minute he signed the contract

7. Magnússon - Is he any better than when he arrived? Done well to make our money back on him.

8. Ivan Lucic - Given about 20 seconds in men's football, clearly unfancied by LJ

9. Taylor Moore - Yes, doing alright in League 1, but you'd hope so for a £1.5m signing who's not getting a look-in after two years??

10. Engvall - Mr. Ever-present

11. Ekstrand - Small risk, smaller reward

12. Duric - Crocked

13. Hegeler - Entire formation switched to suit him, doubt we'd have seen much of him without his injury last season. Seemingly no scouting into whether he suits our style

14. Matthews (loan) - Just garbage and clearly not a very committed player

15. Giefer (loan) - Rubbish

16. Pisano - Hopefully getting back to where he was before his injury but ended the season very badly

17. Eliasson - For one of the hottest properties in Sweden, why so little chance to prove it?

18, 19, 20. Woodrow, Kent, Diony (loans) - "Not in the City mould" said LJ. For Kent and Woodrow, why wasn't the due diligence done? And for Diony, why did the goalscorer we needed end up being someone who hadn't netted since April?

That's a lot of disappointment and a lot of money in two and a half years. I think the players who have succeeded are irrelevant here, because it shows how at best we've got a scatter gun approach to recruitment.

And for a lot of the loans, and players like Hegeler, Tomlin, it's alarming to me that we've not done our homework enough and ended up with players we end up shipping back out pretty quickly (or in Hegeler's case I would wager barely ever making another appearance). Fair play having the balls to admit making mistakes, but stop making them.

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

 

That's a lot of disappointment and a lot of money in two and a half years. I think the players who have succeeded are irrelevant here, because it shows how at best we've got a scatter gun approach to recruitment.

 

Too much subjectivity in player by player reviews, but the bit above is the real issue.  We are this sophisticated/ intelligent recruitment team, but not seeing the results....yet.

Quite enthused by Webster.

For all of me not wanting Watkins at £3m in January, there’s a part of me warming to him as £1m player.  No real logic from me, just think he might work out well despite me not being that excited.  I will of course judge him in a City shirt.

Kelly and Vyner - good news today.

I do think though that Eliasson, Walsh and Moore are the ones that if they break through (maybe even next season) might just see the recruitment start to look more positive.

[Robin1988]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Too much subjectivity in player by player reviews, but the bit above is the real issue.  We are this sophisticated/ intelligent recruitment team, but not seeing the results....yet.

Quite enthused by Webster.

For all of me not wanting Watkins at £3m in January, there’s a part of me warming to him as £1m player.  No real logic from me, just think he might work out well despite me not being that excited.  I will of course judge him in a City shirt.

Kelly and Vyner - good news today.

I do think though that Eliasson, Walsh and Moore are the ones that if they break through (maybe even next season) might just see the recruitment start to look more positive.

Webster seems like a very good signing and you'd be surprised if he doesn't end up as a "green", right? It's not like Ipswich are the only team in England who are watching the purse strings and we could look to target, either, but it seems like it with our recruitment generally?