Marina's Rolls Royce Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 IMO, I have. I have been a die hard supporter of Lee to the point of me being branded as a happy clapper and delusional. I have had to justify my support for " Little Lee-the poison dwarf " for the best part of three seasons . And here's the thing: We've ended up with a top half finish, not a moment of relegation trouble, the best finish in almost decade and the most glorious moment in as long when we beat Man U. At the death. I get what BCFC are doing and am really grateful to SL and can only despise his critics. I am happy and clappy and completely supportive of this fine man. However...... I cannot deny that I am now putting my support for Lee on notice. He is now an experienced Manager of three clubs , he is also shortly to be in the top four longest serving Managers in the Championship. He has a good squad, fair budget , fantastic owner, brilliant stadium, great academy and all the tools to succeed. I understand a blip in form- shit happens. But it seems that it happens with Lee a bit too often and whilst I'm delighted to see us in the top half with a fantastic cup run- I'm still a bit hacked off at our collapse since Xmas. My points is that even us optimists and so called 'happy clappers' are getting a bit sceptical . We really want Lee to succeed ( as much as many on here don't) but next season is the final chance imo. If Lee is not on track within a reasonable time scale ( oct/nov) to take us up next season then , with great regret, I think it will be time for SL to end the Johnson Journey. He has been given every support, every tool and the fans have been flipping fantastic. Time to deliver, Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiled Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 You didn't earn the right to start a new thread, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unan Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 Thread closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marina's Rolls Royce Posted May 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 1 minute ago, Unan said: Thread closed. i suspect otherwise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhistleHappy Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 16 minutes ago, Xiled said: You didn't earn the right to start a new thread, 14 minutes ago, Unan said: Thread closed. 7 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said: i suspect otherwise & with that along cones WH ..... (the bloody fool) with this..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olé Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 52 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said: Time to deliver, Lee It's early May mate. This is going to go down as the slowest drum roll ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuber Posted May 11, 2018 Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 I'm just dreading what happens this summer. If we lose Reid, Flint, Baker, Bryan, or Pack, or at least any 2-3 of the 5 of them. I think we're stuck up a creek without a paddle with our recruitment record the last two years. And if we get rid before bringing anyone in - then god help us all. The one signing that will stick in my mind forever is when we sold Kodjia, panicked and bought Engvall. It took a loan signing to save us and we finally rectified the situation with Diedhiou. If it wasn't for LJ convincing Tammy to join us we'd of been League 1 bound last season. Another example was getting rid of Freeman. We could of signed him on for another year, didn't, sold him for £300k, and ended up (with no disrespect intended) Eliasson who has played (starting) a total of 3 league matches. It's things like that which make me question whether the squad is stronger than it was previously. Or whether the league this season is simply weaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheshire_red Posted May 11, 2018 Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 ‘A bit hacked off’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydneybcfc Posted May 11, 2018 Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 I always want whoever is in charge to succeed just as i always want us to win no matter who is playing, I've never understood those who dislike or even hate the people in the club trying to achieve the best. Having said that, why are we suddenly promotion favourites who must get promoted or the manager is out? We haven't been that since the Danny Wilson days in L1. One season near the top does not entitle us to call ourselves promotion favourites or set the board expectations for our managers that its playoffs or the sack. I agree if we end up in a relegation fight early then its probably time he went but a sniff of promotion and suddenly we are the Man United of the championship demanding promotion or the manager falls on his sword. There will be 3 relegated premier league sides and numerous others still on parachute payments that will be demanding promotion but i still see us in the hoping for promotion/happy for progress pile. Is LJ the man to keep us improving? I hope so but if we stagnate/get stuck in a relegation fight then someone else will get the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curr Avon Posted May 11, 2018 Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 The reason that Danny Wilson left was because a number of his players were wasted in League 1. Wasted being the operative word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 11, 2018 Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 6 hours ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said: IMO, I have. I have been a die hard supporter of Lee to the point of me being branded as a happy clapper and delusional. I have had to justify my support for " Little Lee-the poison dwarf " for the best part of three seasons . And here's the thing: We've ended up with a top half finish, not a moment of relegation trouble, the best finish in almost decade and the most glorious moment in as long when we beat Man U. At the death. I get what BCFC are doing and am really grateful to SL and can only despise his critics. I am happy and clappy and completely supportive of this fine man. However...... I cannot deny that I am now putting my support for Lee on notice. He is now an experienced Manager of three clubs , he is also shortly to be in the top four longest serving Managers in the Championship. He has a good squad, fair budget , fantastic owner, brilliant stadium, great academy and all the tools to succeed. I understand a blip in form- shit happens. But it seems that it happens with Lee a bit too often and whilst I'm delighted to see us in the top half with a fantastic cup run- I'm still a bit hacked off at our collapse since Xmas. My points is that even us optimists and so called 'happy clappers' are getting a bit sceptical . We really want Lee to succeed ( as much as many on here don't) but next season is the final chance imo. If Lee is not on track within a reasonable time scale ( oct/nov) to take us up next season then , with great regret, I think it will be time for SL to end the Johnson Journey. He has been given every support, every tool and the fans have been flipping fantastic. Time to deliver, Lee The old give him till xmas thread.....then the window...then we go again. News Flash; LJ will not be going anywhere, even if we are in a relegation dogfight or I believe even if we go down; SL will stand by his man for a long while yet, because he can. A 30% or so drop in ST SALES next year or some proper protests may change his mind but may not as he and Lee can really rebuild then. We will also have to have a massive change in recruitment policy to "challenge for top six" as SL and some fans believe will happen, being a glass half empty fan bottom six more likely if we let key men go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted May 11, 2018 Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 You genuinely think promotion next season is the only acceptable outcome worthy of him staying in the job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted May 11, 2018 Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 5 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said: You genuinely think promotion next season is the only acceptable outcome worthy of him staying in the job? Not for me necessarily. Another season of being in and around the top six with something to play for the last 15 or so games will be another solid season - providing of course LJ continues to play attractive football. For me that's what it's all about and why I pay up to go to AG - to be entertained Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selred Posted May 11, 2018 Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 15 minutes ago, Robbored said: Not for me necessarily. Another season of being in and around the top six with something to play for the last 15 or so games will be another solid season - providing of course LJ continues to play attractive football. For me that's what it's all about and why I pay up to go to AG - to be entertained The thing is the football hasn’t been attractive in 2018, he’s gone against all his principles in 2017 which led to our cup and league success at the time, quick passing pressing football. That’s what concerns me most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoons Posted May 11, 2018 Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 Another pointless LJ thread that's been done to death...I hope the op gets his 5 minutes in the limelight he craves by starting another LJ thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted May 11, 2018 Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 21 minutes ago, Robbored said: Not for me necessarily. Another season of being in and around the top six with something to play for the last 15 or so games will be another solid season - providing of course LJ continues to play attractive football. For me that's what it's all about and why I pay up to go to AG - to be entertained The thing is now, SL has laid down the gauntlet, he wants top six… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted May 11, 2018 Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 6 minutes ago, Selred said: The thing is the football hasn’t been attractive in 2018, he’s gone against all his principles in 2017 which led to our cup and league success at the time, quick passing pressing football. That’s what concerns me most. Yeah, the slump in form was disappointing but Spudski's observation was that the change of playing style that caused it was spot on imv. I certainly can't see any other reason why it happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marina's Rolls Royce Posted May 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 29 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said: You genuinely think promotion next season is the only acceptable outcome worthy of him staying in the job? No- that's not what I said- 'so long as he's on track" in other words in or around the top six with the play-offs the minimum required finish. It will be Lee's fourth season at our club and I can't see how anything other than a top six finish can be seen as further progress. I've been a constant pro LJ supporter since he became Manager and I just think next season he's got to make the club a serious challenger without these unexplainable dip in form bad runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted May 11, 2018 Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said: The thing is now, SL has laid down the gauntlet, he wants top six… He has indeed and that won't be lost on LJ. He'll be well aware of the need to improve on last season. Clever and not so subtle message from SL was that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted May 11, 2018 Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 7 hours ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said: IMO, I have. I have been a die hard supporter of Lee to the point of me being branded as a happy clapper and delusional. I have had to justify my support for " Little Lee-the poison dwarf " for the best part of three seasons . And here's the thing: We've ended up with a top half finish, not a moment of relegation trouble, the best finish in almost decade and the most glorious moment in as long when we beat Man U. At the death. I get what BCFC are doing and am really grateful to SL and can only despise his critics. I am happy and clappy and completely supportive of this fine man. However...... I cannot deny that I am now putting my support for Lee on notice. He is now an experienced Manager of three clubs , he is also shortly to be in the top four longest serving Managers in the Championship. He has a good squad, fair budget , fantastic owner, brilliant stadium, great academy and all the tools to succeed. I understand a blip in form- shit happens. But it seems that it happens with Lee a bit too often and whilst I'm delighted to see us in the top half with a fantastic cup run- I'm still a bit hacked off at our collapse since Xmas. My points is that even us optimists and so called 'happy clappers' are getting a bit sceptical . We really want Lee to succeed ( as much as many on here don't) but next season is the final chance imo. If Lee is not on track within a reasonable time scale ( oct/nov) to take us up next season then , with great regret, I think it will be time for SL to end the Johnson Journey. He has been given every support, every tool and the fans have been flipping fantastic. Time to deliver, Lee And yet another is beginning to realise that he is not the Wunderkind that he appeared to be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marina's Rolls Royce Posted May 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 1 minute ago, Robbored said: He has indeed and that won't be lost on LJ. He'll be well aware of the need to improve on last season. Clever and not so subtle message from SL was that. Exactly so. I think that despite those on here who have the opinion that Lee is SL's love child and has a job for life - the reality is different. SL is only too ware that the true sustainability for BCFC lies in the money generated in the Premiership. He is an unbelievably supportive owner to all his Managers but has also sacked plenty and if he feels that Lee can't ultimately deliver a promotion then he'll look elsewhere. I thing Steve wants Lee to be the one more than anyone else but what none of us know ( including Lee) is what timeframe SL is working to and rarely does anyone know what SL will do until he's done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted May 11, 2018 Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 37 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said: The thing is now, SL has laid down the gauntlet, he wants top six… Yes I think that was the message although he said he wanted improvement, so in theory anywhere in the top 10, but yes the real brief was top 6. As others have said though there are 3 teams arriving with parachutes, another 3 who would be licking their wounds from playoff defeats and 3 with momentum from league one. Im not confident with how we will replace out outgoings. But I do feel SL is ramping up the pressure, in a ‘you got it all now deliver’ type stance. However I think we have missed the best opportunity we will have for a while this season. LJ is being asked to perform more with less tools I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishRed Posted May 11, 2018 Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 10 minutes ago, cidered abroad said: And yet another is beginning to realise that he is not the Wunderkind that he appeared to be! It still surprises me that some thought he was. There was nothing in his CV prior to arriving at AG to suggest he was. He was hugely hyped by MA and some bought into it. I have to say I have absolutely nothing against LJ and I would be delighted if he got us playing a consistent entertaining style and got rid of those horrendous 'runs' of form that one day could be catastrophic. Like lots on here I think that this is the watershed summer for him, if we sell a few then who we bring in will define his time here. History does not make me feel optimistic. I do think he needs some experience around him but I doubt that will happen unless of course.............someone he knows rather well joins again. As for self sustainability , I am all for it, and the obvious way to achieve that is there for all to see. I was one of the ' job for life' brigade - now I am not quite so sure. Interesting thought - Swansea are apparently going back to their previous strategy and appoint a young innovative coach in the summer - surely LJ would be in the frame for that if he was the real deal, good opportunity with money to spend. I bet he isn't anywhere near it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 11, 2018 Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 7 hours ago, Fuber said: I'm just dreading what happens this summer. If we lose Reid, Flint, Baker, Bryan, or Pack, or at least any 2-3 of the 5 of them. I think we're stuck up a creek without a paddle with our recruitment record the last two years. And if we get rid before bringing anyone in - then god help us all. The one signing that will stick in my mind forever is when we sold Kodjia, panicked and bought Engvall. It took a loan signing to save us and we finally rectified the situation with Diedhiou. If it wasn't for LJ convincing Tammy to join us we'd of been League 1 bound last season. Another example was getting rid of Freeman. We could of signed him on for another year, didn't, sold him for £300k, and ended up (with no disrespect intended) Eliasson who has played (starting) a total of 3 league matches. It's things like that which make me question whether the squad is stronger than it was previously. Or whether the league this season is simply weaker. Whilst I do agree haven't we lost our top players in each of the last few windows? Losing Kodjia was doomsday, losing Tammy was doomsday, losing Diedhou to a long term injury would leave us with no recognised striker... the transfer record I agree I'd patch with too many squad players, but when it has come to replacing players of impact - our better players - I do think the transfer record is quite impressive. It's just dragged down by the expensive youth flops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted May 11, 2018 Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 It wouldn't surprise me to see us go backwards rather than forward in the near future. I base that on the expectations of SL and many of our fans. As a Club, we have no right to expect top 6 or promotion. The expectations I feel promote too much pressure on any manager and the players. So many bigger teams in this league with bigger budgets, more experience, that fail to get in the top 6 every season. The bar has been set high in 'expectations'....the cup run and magnificent wins over Prem teams, and so many weeks in the top 6 this season have set that bar. Imo...when I look at other squads we overachieved massively. Our position in the league we ended up in, was probably about right. How we ended up there, with such a poor run, wasn't what anyone wanted...but funnily we averaged out to where I expected roughly. If LJ was to have an average bag of results next season or the next and finished around mid to higher in the table, the fans would be furious imo. The most likely outcome would be fan pressure demanding change. We've a history of bringing in managers that ultimately fail...we'd probably do it again, and end up going backwards again. It wasn't that long ago, that fans were desperate for us to become an established Championship side. A couple seasons up and SL and fans want and demand the Prem and top 6. People sight the likes of Huddersfield and Bournemouth...so yes it is possible....but imo the demands and expectations are far too much considering our recent history and lack of achievement in this division. The blueprint on how we now run this club and how we recruit...within the confines of the league system with transfer and loans, will take a lot longer to succeed to any good level imo. When LJ said he needed so many transfer windows to find a way of playing...that didn't mean promotion...just finding a way to compete. That comment by him, imo, has led many to think it meant top 6. It will take at least 3 to 4 seasons to see a massive improvement in development and bringing players through to a quality we need. Take Bobby Reid as a Prime example...how long has it taken him to get to this standard. The same can be said of Bryan. When you see the likes of Moore, Vyner, Kelly...the 'future' amongst others....how many more seasons are they going to need to get up to those standards? Fast tracking young Academy players with loans to league 1 and 2....and then blooding them in the Championship and expecting instant results...it's not going to happen soon is it. It took Brownhill and Odowda a couple seasons to get to speed. If the likes of Vyner and Kelly end up in our back 4 in the Championship, does anyone think they aren't going to make mistakes whilst adapting to the league? It's a catch 22....give it a go 'our way'...or go with the masses...and fail just as many times as they do. What we all have to remember...is when it comes to making footballing decisions, SL hasn't had a great track record in doing them. He makes the decisions...and regardless of dreams and demands and expectations, his decision making doesn't warrant those demand imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marina's Rolls Royce Posted May 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 17 minutes ago, RedM said: Yes I think that was the message although he said he wanted improvement, so in theory anywhere in the top 10, but yes the real brief was top 6. As others have said though there are 3 teams arriving with parachutes, another 3 who would be liking their wounds from playoff defeats and 3 with momentum from league one. Im not confident with how we will replace out outgoings. But I do feel SL is ramping up the pressure, in a ‘you got it all now deliver’ type stance. However I think we have missed the best opportunity we will have for a while this season. LJ is being asked to perform more with less tools I think. If that genuinely becomes the case then it is not inconceivable that Lee could see his future elsewhere. The much talked about exit of our best players is yet to happen whilst we have no idea of who the replacements/additions will be. I also completely agree that this season was an unbelievably good chance- I mean we lost game after game after game but still stayed in the top six. I still believe Lee can kick on from this season yet I can't see the fans being happy with a mid table finish next season or being content with being a good average. Even the great Bill Shankly said "the next next word that follows consolidation....is relegation" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted May 11, 2018 Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 6 hours ago, Sydneybcfc said: I always want whoever is in charge to succeed just as i always want us to win no matter who is playing, I've never understood those who dislike or even hate the people in the club trying to achieve the best. Having said that, why are we suddenly promotion favourites who must get promoted or the manager is out? We haven't been that since the Danny Wilson days in L1. One season near the top does not entitle us to call ourselves promotion favourites or set the board expectations for our managers that its playoffs or the sack. I agree if we end up in a relegation fight early then its probably time he went but a sniff of promotion and suddenly we are the Man United of the championship demanding promotion or the manager falls on his sword. There will be 3 relegated premier league sides and numerous others still on parachute payments that will be demanding promotion but i still see us in the hoping for promotion/happy for progress pile. Is LJ the man to keep us improving? I hope so but if we stagnate/get stuck in a relegation fight then someone else will get the job. I certainly don’t want another relegation battle....we ought to be above that in our fourth season back up, having a stable club financially and a head-coach in situ for 2.5 years at this moment in time. However.... 1 hour ago, BRISTOL86 said: You genuinely think promotion next season is the only acceptable outcome worthy of him staying in the job? ....I would take something like 10-15th (again to relegation worry), but by the end of the season, really have a clear identity for the way we want to play, a squad that is balanced to implement that style and be ready to crack on into the top 8, with a PO push looming in 19/20. Coupled with that I expect to see whoever / a chunk out of the likes of Vyner, Kelly, Moore, Bakinson, Hinds etc to have pushed on, played a part in showing they are capable at this level, to be the backbone for years to come, or being the next sellable assets, like Joe and Bobby have. And finally, LJ to really show he’s not making the same mistakes. That would be progress, imho, despite perhaps a lower league position that some think is the only barometer!!! 52 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said: The thing is now, SL has laid down the gauntlet, he wants top six… He has, which renders my above paragraph a bit pointless....but I’m not SL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted May 11, 2018 Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said: No- that's not what I said- 'so long as he's on track" in other words in or around the top six with the play-offs the minimum required finish. It will be Lee's fourth season at our club and I can't see how anything other than a top six finish can be seen as further progress. I've been a constant pro LJ supporter since he became Manager and I just think next season he's got to make the club a serious challenger without these unexplainable dip in form bad runs. Obviously I’d like to see us go for top six again. But unless we’re going to be sufficiently resourced, is it a fair objective? We’re probably middle of the pack in terms of wage budget/squad quality so unless the directive changes from the top down in terms of the type of player we recruit I can’t see that top six is necessarily a realistic objective. I know it’s not just about wages, but can you really expect to take a - say - 12th placed squad and deliver a 1st-6th placed finish without a large slice of luck? Would a Ford Focus expect to keep pace with a Porsche over the long distance? The manner of points accumulation was very frustrating but ultimately we probably finished in what was about the right position given the weaknesses in the squad and disparity between the haves and want to haves. Taking Cardiff out of the equation as the anomaly, the clubs that finished top six this season are all considerably ahead of us in squad depth and quality, and wage budget (though even Cardiff are ahead of us on that front) I think if we are to expect a top six finish then LJ should expect a change in steer from the top about recruitment. If we went into next season unchanged then for me top ten would be an achievement and that’s if we keep our best players let alone if we lose them and fail to adequately re-recruit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted May 11, 2018 Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said: Obviously I’d like to see us go for top six again. But unless we’re going to be sufficiently resourced, is it a fair objective? We’re probably middle of the pack in terms of wage budget/squad quality so unless the directive changes from the top down in terms of the type of player we recruit I can’t see that top six is necessarily a realistic objective. I know it’s not just about wages, but can you really expect to take a - say - 12th placed squad and deliver a 1st-6th placed finish without a large slice of luck? Would a Ford Focus expect to keep pace with a Porsche over the long distance? The manner of points accumulation was very frustrating but ultimately we probably finished in what was about the right position given the weaknesses in the squad and disparity between the haves and want to haves. Taking Cardiff out of the equation as the anomaly, the clubs that finished top six this season are all considerably ahead of us in squad depth and quality. I think if we are to expect a top six finish then LJ should expect a change in steer from the top about recruitment. If we went into next season unchanged then for me top ten would be an achievement. Do you not think Cardiff have squad depth and quality? I think they are player for player much better than us, albeit created to play differently to us. We’ve not got a CB pairing as good as Bamba and Morrison. Hoilett is miles better than any of our wisemen. They bypass their middle two, so diesnt really matter how we compare there, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Notgetinya Posted May 11, 2018 Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 I’m an LJ fan but our collapse was unacceptable. Imagine what we could of achieved with Warnock in charge. He’s taken a very average Cardiff up automatically in his second season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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