VITAL TO GET BALANCE RIGHT - JOHNSON

[Chairman Mao]

3 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

I believe that I'm reasonably intelligent but this is complete drivel. I can't understand what he is trying to say. 

That’s education for the players and I often say to them 'I need to move 20 per cent towards the Millennials but you have to move 20 per cent to us as well.'"

In terms of style in play and what I’m after, I feel I’ve got but it but that doesn’t mean we’re not trying to improve and add more quality in those areas."

Is it me getting senile? 

Anyone care to explain to me, what he is saying? 

LJ says the current style of play is what he wants (i.e. the style that leads to no away wins in 5 months). 

Total clown.

[The Nest Egg]

28 minutes ago, Cheesleysmate said:

He did say that communication at the club is a problem. You could see that on the pitch top from the start of 2018.

Colin gets his point across and he is a dinosaur. **** me, some of his players must have needed a 70% shift, so 20% is far more generous Lee!

Colin can do that as his record speaks for itself- had you tried that attitude with no history of promotions to back it up you'd be out the door. LJ isn't exactly going to be able to do it, due to his youth, lack of experience, and if we're playing the low blows too, his height. 

[Chivs]

4 hours ago, Bristol Rob said:

Guess this means when they sit down and watch telly together that occasionally LJ will let them watch Love Island as long as they don't complain when him and Mark Ashton want to watch The Apprentice.

Us Millennials only watch "telly" on our phones so there's no sitting down, daddio.

[CotswoldRed]

23 minutes ago, Chivs said:

Us Millennials only watch "telly" on our phones so there's no sitting down, daddio.

Oh, I thought it was something else making you short sighted. 

[Ivorguy]

LJ is fast disappearing up his own fundament

[INCRED]

6 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

I believe that I'm reasonably intelligent but this is complete drivel. I can't understand what he is trying to say. 

That’s education for the players and I often say to them 'I need to move 20 per cent towards the Millennials but you have to move 20 per cent to us as well.'"

In terms of style in play and what I’m after, I feel I’ve got but it but that doesn’t mean we’re not trying to improve and add more quality in those areas."

Is it me getting senile? 

Anyone care to explain to me, what he is saying? 

Sorry lost me at the double but stage!!!

[Toffee dog]

My take on this  & I'm no LJ fanatic, but what I think he is trying to say is that with this/that generation if you put the wind of god into them they either sulk or do one rather than stand their corner & fight.

Could be totally wrong what do others think?

[Lew-T]

10 minutes ago, Toffee dog said:

My take on this  & I'm no LJ fanatic, but what I think he is trying to say is that with this/that generation if you put the wind of god into them they either sulk or do one rather than stand their corner & fight.

Could be totally wrong what do others think?

They are his players though. If they sulk, then they aren’t the right ‘DNA’ for this football club. Do you think the Cardiff players would sulk infront of Warnock? 

Painful I know bringing NW into this but you can’t knock his record. Perhaps Lee Johnson just can’t manage the squad? Has that ever occurred to anybody? I believe this was discussed not so long ago by @Olé and I think it comes back to that.

It’s a personal issue I think.

[Lew-T]

Again it’s funny our demise started when we had a fully fit squad...

[Toffee dog]

29 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

They are his players though. If they sulk, then they aren’t the right ‘DNA’ for this football club. Do you think the Cardiff players would sulk infront of Warnock? 

Painful I know bringing NW into this but you can’t knock his record. Perhaps Lee Johnson just can’t manage the squad? Has that ever occurred to anybody? I believe this was discussed not so long ago by @Olé and I think it comes back to that.

It’s a personal issue I think.

Wasn't on about the squad, talking very generally, didn't mention Cardiff  or Warnock .

 

[Frenchay Red]

48 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

They are his players though. If they sulk, then they aren’t the right ‘DNA’ for this football club. Do you think the Cardiff players would sulk infront of Warnock? 

Painful I know bringing NW into this but you can’t knock his record. Perhaps Lee Johnson just can’t manage the squad? Has that ever occurred to anybody? I believe this was discussed not so long ago by @Olé and I think it comes back to that.

It’s a personal issue I think.

It's never occurred to me that he can.

[Lack of Action Man]

9 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

That’s education for the players and I often say to them 'I need to move 20 per cent towards the Millennials but you have to move 20 per cent to us as well.'"

 

Cringe! Feels so David Brent that statement.

Millenials don't require special treatment (I'm one!) Just act with respect and dignity as you would any other human being? And as the manager of BCFC demonstrate that you can lead everyone within the team, club and beyond.

[pillred]

10 hours ago, GlastonburyRed said:

If you move 20% in one direction and 20% in another, isn’t there a decent chance that you end up where you started...

thought I was the only one that thought that, thanks for proving me wrong.

[Olé]

I've read the article three times now and can't understand a word of it - the millennials comment has been well discussed on here already, and it means absolutely nothing to me, but I'm also somewhat disturbed by LJ's remarks in the rest of the article, which make no sense whatsoever.

• "We had a nice balance of experience, height and youth with players coming through and it changes."  (And what changes?)
• "If we did lose three or four then we would have had to rebuild again. (Are we talking past or future - the tense keep changing?)
• "In terms of style in play and what I’m after, I feel I’ve got but it but that doesn’t mean we’re not trying to improve" (total absence of English)

This could be a microcosm of the past few days at City - either it's the direct effect of losing Adam Baker from the media department, that we can't even transcribe and proof-read an interview in English, or if LJ really spoke like this (he certainly wasn't to the point) we really do have problems.

[NickJ]

10 hours ago, spudski said:

It's what I've been referring to in other posts re the younger Snowflake millennial generation. 

Trying to manage these kids must be a nightmare. They can't take constructive criticism or being shouted at. It's all about being positive, making them feel wanted, always showing the positives etc.

What LJ is asking, is for them to move 20% closer to our generations way of communicating, whilst he has to Adapt 20% there way... obviously it's not those actual figures, just a figure of speech.

Problem is, it's only going to get worse.

Sorry mate but you just keep repeating or justifying Johnson’s glib meaningless cliches. 

What he says makes no grammatical sense whatever and has even less logical substance. 

To suggest that a 35 year old manager has potentially such a massive generational disconnect with a 22 year old player is just crass bollucks. 

Never heard Ferguson or Wenger or Gardiola or dare I say it Cotterill or Watnock or any other manager offer such a pathetic critique of the demands of management. It’s such complete drivel it’d make me angry if I wasn’t so busy laughing at it. 

The bloke is just looking for excuses non stop. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

@spudski

I like your posts- good insight, good value, very readable.

While there is a difference between the generations, no doubt, your term 'Snowflake Millennial generation'.

Apologies but a lot of lazy nonsense tbh, that phrase. Clichéd, some tabloid journo stock phrase.

 

[Olé]

10 hours ago, spudski said:

It's what I've been referring to in other posts re the younger Snowflake millennial generation. 

Trying to manage these kids must be a nightmare. They can't take constructive criticism or being shouted at. It's all about being positive, making them feel wanted, always showing the positives etc.

Mate... I think our views have been less far apart this past season than our "debates" in the prior one, and I always value your insight, but I must say that you have been banging this drum recently louder and louder about a problem with millennials, and I just completely disagree. I'm sure you will have your negative experiences, but for me it's totally wrong to generalise a flaw in a whole group, and it smacks of scapegoating a generation for being different.

I always refer back to my own experiences and I've hired and coached millennials in business and similarly seen them develop in other businesses that I work with. Yes there is the odd waste of space that can't be taught anything - main issue being laziness and maturity - but there are plenty of younger people who understand the work and sacrifices required to succeed, who have the drive to do so, and certainly don't need to be wrapped in positivity.

Point of fact, I come across plenty more wasters from my (our?!) own generation, who feel far more self-entitled simply by age and a career job hopping to seniority without actually ever earning or justifying it, who are far less prepared to accept instruction or do anything to meaningfully develop. I guess the football equivalent would be a disruptive, flawed journeyman - Tomlin perhaps. Against that, a majority of millennials are no problem at all to lead.

Perhaps I just don't have the insight of football coaching, but I think one or two have responded on here recently about their own experiences with their sons' motivation and effort in youth teams being a long way off what you have described. Either way, stigmatising all millennials is just nonsense to me, and I certainly don't consistently see the entitlement which you mention in any other walk of life (to say nothing of what a cheap label "snowflake" is).

For what little it is worth, going back to my own experiences, if I could pinpoint one thing that resonates with younger people that I've worked with, it is sharing practical experiences (often of mistakes or problems, which are often the best teachers). It's one thing they can't get any other way than over time, as such that experience is a valuable shortcut to help them succeed - which is why "been there done it" experience is the essence of leadership.  

So when LJ says they don't make players like they used to, or rambles on about some strange 20% deficit among young players he chooses to recruit - I just see it as the sharp end of his obsession with weaving nonsensical excuses. And, as per my point above, it actually just exposes his inability to lead them with any useful experience. There were plenty younger teams than us last season in the Championship and their managers all seemed to get by.

[Olé]

8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

@spudski

I like your posts- good insight, good value, very readable.

While there is a difference between the generations, no doubt, your term 'Snowflake Millennial generation'.

Apologies but a lot of lazy nonsense tbh, that phrase. Clichéd, some tabloid journo stock phrase.

Thank you for putting it more simply than the essay I just wasted time writing to basically say the same thing. It's total and utter nonsense.

[Fordy62]

17 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

 

That’s education for the players and I often say to them 'I need to move 20 per cent towards the Millennials but you have to move 20 per cent to us as well.'"

Fortunately I’ve downloaded the LJ translator app. Essentially it means this;

”I keep using made up words like “clutch” like theyre genuine words in the context I use them. I think that if I keep using them enough the millennials will start to believe that they’re real words. Similarly they keep using “bad” to mean “good” - which I’m happy to accept so long as I only have to accept it in the clutch phase, clutch, clutch, clutch.”

[CotswoldRed]

9 hours ago, OddBallJim said:

Cringe! Feels so David Brent that statement.

Millenials don't require special treatment (I'm one!) Just act with respect and dignity as you would any other human being? And as the manager of BCFC demonstrate that you can lead everyone within the team, club and beyond.

Spot on. And why give them a special name? Unless you're trying to describe the way the older generations have screwed their life chances and condemned them to a life of rent and pension poverty? 

[spudski]

7 hours ago, NickJ said:

Sorry mate but you just keep repeating or justifying Johnson’s glib meaningless cliches. 

What he says makes no grammatical sense whatever and has even less logical substance. 

To suggest that a 35 year old manager has potentially such a massive generational disconnect with a 22 year old player is just crass bollucks. 

Never heard Ferguson or Wenger or Gardiola or dare I say it Cotterill or Watnock or any other manager offer such a pathetic critique of the demands of management. It’s such complete drivel it’d make me angry if I wasn’t so busy laughing at it. 

The bloke is just looking for excuses non stop. 

I'm not justifying LJ at all. But I don't think he's making any excuses...just saying it as it is.

Who's suggesting LJ has a massive generational disconnect? Neither me not him.

Unfortunately whatever LJ says will be nit picked.

The bloke is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

I can totally relate to what he say's regarding coaching a certain generation.

I've experienced it many times myself. You have to adjust your coaching methods. Yes, it's man management, but when coaching a group of that generation it's completely different to coaching the 35yo + generation.

You have to completely change your tact and approach.

In fact it's something we had to address and discuss in meetings before the coaching day started. On how to get the best out of a certain generation. And he's right when he mentions 'communication'...getting them to actually talk and communicate was an absolute ball ache. Getting feedback was hard. So many suffering from anxiety...worried what their peers thought. Didn't like speaking openly in a group. Worried if they got it wrong...what the coach or their peers would think. In fact we had an exercise where we would pair them up and get one another to critique their technical ability, and tell one another where they were getting it right or wrong. This to show their understanding and also to promote communication. They as a majority ( not all ) failed miserably. They just didn't want to speak openly and honestly. They didn't want to hurt the feelings of the other, felt anxious in doing so, clammed up, didn't want to say the wrong thing in front of their peer or coach. Worried what others thought. Became nervous and inevitably when under that pressure under performed.

I could go on...but the fact it was one of the most talked about problems in morning meetings before coaching, just tells you how big a problem it has become.

One of the solutions was to bring out an coaching app that they could refer to. It was like a comfort blanket for them.

There is a whole generation that has grown up with phones and computers with social media. During their formative years, it's these devises that they turned to for comfort. It goes right back to parenting...parents have busy lives, so they pack their kids off with these devises to their rooms. The knock on effect, is that this generation have become addicted to this technology and it gives them the same security and comfort as what parents did to their children in older generations. Because their is less communication in talking face to face with someone, and that natural bonding, this new generation find it harder when under pressure in a 'natural' situation.

I could go on...but it's a massive problem.

Of course it's not every person...but there is a massive proportion that are.

@Olé and @Mr Popodopolous

Watch that video I posted fellas...it really is well put together and explains many things. It's worth watch and shows it's not the 'snowflake' generations fault.

[Kid in the Riot]

6 hours ago, NickJ said:

To suggest that a 35 year old manager has potentially such a massive generational disconnect with a 22 year old player is just crass bollucks. 

"That’s education for the players and I often say to them 'I need to move 20 per cent towards the Millennials but you have to move 20 per cent to us as well.'"

I think that the confusing thing about this message is that LJ is a millennial having been born in the 1980s. So he appears to be acknowledging that he can't manage players from his own generation.

Can someone at the club just turn him off until pre-season so we don't have to hear anymore of this nonsense? 

[Cowshed]

44 minutes ago, spudski said:

I'm not justifying LJ at all. But I don't think he's making any excuses...just saying it as it is.

Who's suggesting LJ has a massive generational disconnect? Neither me not him.

Unfortunately whatever LJ says will be nit picked.

The bloke is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

I can totally relate to what he say's regarding coaching a certain generation.

I've experienced it many times myself. You have to adjust your coaching methods. Yes, it's man management, but when coaching a group of that generation it's completely different to coaching the 35yo + generation.

You have to completely change your tact and approach.

In fact it's something we had to address and discuss in meetings before the coaching day started. On how to get the best out of a certain generation. And he's right when he mentions 'communication'...getting them to actually talk and communicate was an absolute ball ache. Getting feedback was hard. So many suffering from anxiety...worried what their peers thought. Didn't like speaking openly in a group. Worried if they got it wrong...what the coach or their peers would think. In fact we had an exercise where we would pair them up and get one another to critique their technical ability, and tell one another where they were getting it right or wrong. This to show their understanding and also to promote communication. They as a majority ( not all ) failed miserably. They just didn't want to speak openly and honestly. They didn't want to hurt the feelings of the other, felt anxious in doing so, clammed up, didn't want to say the wrong thing in front of their peer or coach. Worried what others thought. Became nervous and inevitably when under that pressure under performed.

I could go on...but the fact it was one of the most talked about problems in morning meetings before coaching, just tells you how big a problem it has become.

One of the solutions was to bring out an coaching app that they could refer to. It was like a comfort blanket for them.

There is a whole generation that has grown up with phones and computers with social media. During their formative years, it's these devises that they turned to for comfort. It goes right back to parenting...parents have busy lives, so they pack their kids off with these devises to their rooms. The knock on effect, is that this generation have become addicted to this technology and it gives them the same security and comfort as what parents did to their children in older generations. Because their is less communication in talking face to face with someone, and that natural bonding, this new generation find it harder when under pressure in a 'natural' situation.

I could go on...but it's a massive problem.

Of course it's not every person...but there is a massive proportion that are.

@Olé and @Mr Popodopolous

Watch that video I posted fellas...it really is well put together and explains many things. It's worth watch and shows it's not the 'snowflake' generations fault.

And coaching like the game evolves.

You almost demonise players, kids and parents in your posting. All that is really different is that the challenges alter. Todays player has never been fitter, technically proficient and professional.

Altering attitudes and culture lead to binary choices for coaches and Managers. Altering attitude and culture can be looked upon as an exciting challenge for the coach, but also a massive opportunity. To view that choice as a problem is a reflection of where the coach needs to confront their own failings. 

 

[Davefevs]

@spudski to some extent he is saying it as it is, or at least how he sees it and I like his honesty. But I think the bit that is missing is his own understanding of it, why are they like that, why the players aren’t performing. 

He’s read all the books, visited all the industries to benchmark, but if you can’t analyse the situation, assimilate the info and then prescribe the right change, then you’re gonna come across as someone who looks like they don’t know what they’re doing. 

This leads on to @Olé and I think he’s missing one of two things. 

1. A mentor - not Pep or Jose or Brian Marwood, but some there on a day to day basis. A SoD type?

2. A playing career at a better level than he had - it is not something I criticise LJ for being an average (at best) Championship career, but it means he has little to fall back on when dealing with those players who have played at better levels. GON, Tomlin, etc. If you don’t get them onside you’re gonna struggle when they roll their eyes at your suggestions. Of course there are plenty who overcome this, Jose himself. You’ve either got that “bollox, I’m in charge” confidence or you haven’t. I don’t think LJ has. The little jokes at his own expense, great show of humility, but not what you want your leader to be coming out with. 

Perhaps that 20% he’s moved towards the millennials is a sign of that too. He’s not leading, he’s trying to be more like his players. 

Shall we have a poll to see if I should sit in the stands. If you believe it’s right, do it. 

Nit picking?  No, just another set of examples of his immaturity in his development curve. 

My question is, when does his development curve start to plateau?  Has it already?

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@spudski to some extent he is saying it as it is, or at least how he sees it and I like his honesty. But I think the bit that is missing is his own understanding of it, why are they like that, why the players aren’t performing. 

He’s read all the books, visited all the industries to benchmark, but if you can’t analyse the situation, assimilate the info and then prescribe the right change, then you’re gonna come across as someone who looks like they don’t know what they’re doing. 

This leads on to @Olé and I think he’s missing one of two things. 

1. A mentor - not Pep or Jose or Brian Marwood, but some there on a day to day basis. A SoD type?

2. A playing career at a better level than he had - it is not something I criticise LJ for being an average (at best) Championship career, but it means he has little to fall back on when dealing with those players who have played at better levels. GON, Tomlin, etc. If you don’t get them onside you’re gonna struggle when they roll their eyes at your suggestions. Of course there are plenty who overcome this, Jose himself. You’ve either got that “bollox, I’m in charge” confidence or you haven’t. I don’t think LJ has. The little jokes at his own expense, great show of humility, but not what you want your leader to be coming out with. 

Perhaps that 20% he’s moved towards the millennials is a sign of that too. He’s not leading, he’s trying to be more like his players. 

Shall we have a poll to see if I should sit in the stands. If you believe it’s right, do it. 

Nit picking?  No, just another set of examples of his immaturity in his development curve. 

My question is, when does his development curve start to plateau?  Has it already?

There have been an awful lot of very fine managers who did not play at the highest level.  Of current premiership managers none of Arsene Wenger, Eddie Howe, Sean Dyche, David Moyes, Roy Hodgson played much at a high level, and it doesn't seem to have done them any harm.  What many successful managers have in common is a focus on management at a relatively early age.

I suspect when they appointed him they knew it was going to be a bit of a 'journey' and, given that, to be where we are is not a bad place to be.  If we go backwards next season, then that's the time to start asking questions.

Oh, and am I alone in feeling that the notion that he spouts glib meaningless cliches is a bit unjust.  He speaks the way managers speak these days.  It would be refreshing if they didn't, but management speak is everywhere, much as I detest it (as a senior manager myself).

[spudski]

16 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

And coaching like the game evolves.

You almost demonise players, kids and parents in your posting. All that is really different is that the challenges alter. Todays player has never been fitter, technically proficient and professional.

Altering attitudes and culture lead to binary choices for coaches and Managers. Altering attitude and culture can be looked upon as an exciting challenge for the coach, but also a massive opportunity. To view that choice as a problem is a reflection of where the coach needs to confront their own failings. 

 

'Demonise players, kids and parents'...really?

I think it's more the way you've read it, with a pre conceived idea....which is what seems to happen on here a lot.

Why bring it down to personal failings?

The coach's all discussed ways of improving and confronting an 'issue'. Call it a problem or whatever....the coach's as well as the organisation were all looking to improve their coaching. In all aspects.

'Problems' arise...so coach's look to find a solution.

Why you've got to be so pedantic and talk in terms more akin to reading out of your coaching manual is beyond me.

What you fail to realise, is that society has failed this generation.

Instead of trying to fix it, all you are suggesting and others, is we deal with it and stick a plaster over it, instead of getting to the source of the problem and changing and fixing that.

It's like having a Cancer, ignoring what's causing it, and just giving you something to make you feel better, instead of curing it or cutting it out.

Our Generation are failing the younger generation by allowing these things to happen and grow.

It's our fault. We've buggered it up and created this culture.

If it wasn't a problem...no one would be talking about it, terms like 'snowflakes' wouldn't exist, and meetings, conversations and organisations wouldn't be looking in to confronting and dealing with the issue.

Perhaps your personal failing as a coach is that you've just gone along with the whole ethos of sticking plasters over what we've created instead of fixing it.

 

[glynriley]

12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@spudski to some extent he is saying it as it is, or at least how he sees it and I like his honesty. But I think the bit that is missing is his own understanding of it, why are they like that, why the players aren’t performing. 

He’s read all the books, visited all the industries to benchmark, but if you can’t analyse the situation, assimilate the info and then prescribe the right change, then you’re gonna come across as someone who looks like they don’t know what they’re doing. 

This leads on to @Olé and I think he’s missing one of two things. 

1. A mentor - not Pep or Jose or Brian Marwood, but some there on a day to day basis. A SoD type?

2. A playing career at a better level than he had - it is not something I criticise LJ for being an average (at best) Championship career, but it means he has little to fall back on when dealing with those players who have played at better levels. GON, Tomlin, etc. If you don’t get them onside you’re gonna struggle when they roll their eyes at your suggestions. Of course there are plenty who overcome this, Jose himself. You’ve either got that “bollox, I’m in charge” confidence or you haven’t. I don’t think LJ has. The little jokes at his own expense, great show of humility, but not what you want your leader to be coming out with. 

Perhaps that 20% he’s moved towards the millennials is a sign of that too. He’s not leading, he’s trying to be more like his players. 

Shall we have a poll to see if I should sit in the stands. If you believe it’s right, do it.  

Nit picking?  No, just another set of examples of his immaturity in his development curve. 

My question is, when does his development curve start to plateau?  Has it already?

Not sure if I'm being thick, but aren't the millennial's those born between 1981-1996??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Johnson_(footballer)

Shouldn't he be speaking their language?

[Kid in the Riot]

2 minutes ago, glynriley said:

Not sure if I'm being thick, but aren't the millennial's those born between 1981-1996??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Johnson_(footballer)

Shouldn't he be speaking their language?

Yes. See post #52

It's not you being thick, it's LJ

[Taz]

16 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

Even if the Almightly recreated them we'd have a couple of decades to wait 'til they were old enough to play...

Ones for the future though innit 

[Major Isewater]

17 hours ago, Distortia said:

He's saying as a manager (in any area of life) you are inevitably going to need to keep your ideas open, encourage people younger than you to develop and develop yourself too. He needs to try hard to do this ('moving' towards millenials/our young players) but they have to pull their weight too.

At least, that's my interpretation of what he's saying. It makes sense as it's important our youngsters are willing to adapt and develop themselves towards a first team place, staying humble rather than believing they have everything they need. This interview of course also alludes to the changing culture of youth players between today & when LJ himself was beginning as a professional.

I'm a hundred per cent sure that the lads knew that they were the minerals that he was referring to .