EmersonsRed Posted May 17, 2018 Report Share Posted May 17, 2018 This is a serious question, too. Given the utter ineptitude at the highest level of our football club at the moment, would you really trust them to find a better appointment than LJ? I'm LJ in personally, but I do understand why people are LJ out. Think our biggest problem on the pitch is our recruitment (ironically it's the same off of it). But do any of you genuinely believe we can get a better coach then Lee Johnson? After all, we could've had Warnock, but he's not a yes man. We could've had Nigel Pearson, but he wanted his own backroom staff and they weren't yes men. Who do you think we could employ? Good answers appreciated, sure there will be some who just say "anyone" and don't think anything through. But really interested to know who you think our awful board would appoint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Brent Posted May 17, 2018 Report Share Posted May 17, 2018 Personally I’m neither in or out at this moment but I wouldn’t mind Mick McCarthy, and it’s a realistic option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Negan Posted May 17, 2018 Report Share Posted May 17, 2018 I honestly think if we were to let go of Johnson or West Brom/Swansea tempt him away that the board may go in for a foreign manager from the Spanish/French/Italian leagues. It seems to be a winning formula at the moment. I'd hope we would look abroad for our next manager as there aren't to many in the EFL at the moment standing out which we could realistically get. I agree with the poster above though, I'm neither in or out. Whilst I think Johnson has some great attributes he also has some massive flaws. My main concern with Johnson is the amount of money he's had to spend and the majority of signings he's made haven't cut it. If rumours are to be believed and we could possible lose Flint, Pack, Bryan and Reid this summer I honestly don't trust the current set up to replace them with players just as good or better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted May 17, 2018 Report Share Posted May 17, 2018 I've said it before but, as much as anything, it is about the right person for the club. Ultimately Nigel Pearson went onto to be a disaster at Derby and it may be the case he would have done no better here than he did there. Similarly Warnock has done a great job at Cardiff but Cardiff have a much higher budget and it is far from proven he would have taken us up. I also think, whilst there are valid criticisms to level at the club, I think this whole "not hiring anyone who isn't a 'yes man'" is a bit of a slur and a myth. I suspect the reason we did not want Pearson to bring his own backroom staff was because the club was restructured in 2012 to try and move away from the culture of employing a manager who brought their own staff and players, sacking them and paying a fortune in compensation, employing a new manager who brought in their own staff and so forth, all the while being saddled with players on long-term contracts the new manager did not rate. I suspect it had absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the backroom staff were "yes men". Similarly with Warnock, I don't think it has anything to do with him not being a "yes man" but because the club wanted to have a structure where there was a coach in place in a specific role and structure who bought into a particular philosophy and Warnock works in a very different way. I think a lot of the "yes man" thing comes from the fact Cotterill was sacked but again, I suspect this was not do with Cotterill not being a "yes man" but the fact he spent six months in a strop, constantly letting the media know how unhappy he was whilst presiding over an extended streak of poor form. All of the above might be the right decisions or might be the wrong decisions but I don't think any of them boil down to the club only wanting "yes men". I also don't think it is at all irrational for a club to decide on a philosophy and then choose a manager to suit it, even if I don't think the board are getting it right at the moment. I'd much rather we do what we are doing where each manager works with broadly the same core of players and a similar backroom team than constantly tossing the baby out with the bathwater. I don't know whether we could get a better coach than Johnson but I think we could get one who gets us playing a lot more consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted May 17, 2018 Report Share Posted May 17, 2018 I wouldn't be too concerned if he got the boot, the reason being I think the players have seen enough of him to realise he's winging it big time. Months of double speak, strange team selections and tactics have taken it's toll on the side. We've allowed a complete novice full control to oversee our football club and SL is paying for the costly mistakes, which other club or even business would let such an inexperienced person do this. What has he done in the game to warrant such a position, who is the experienced football head at the club who is questioning his decision making. What experience has Johnson got to fall back on when implementing his changes. I would have preferred Lee Johnson to have been learning his trade as an Assistant under an old head like MM, just because you are technically sound it does not make you in any way a manager. Life outside of football teaches you that. MM all day long, very experienced, but I doubt he would have been afforded the same expenditure or set of results. This is SL baby and whoever comes in after will be doing it on a relative shoestring in comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hampshire reds Posted May 17, 2018 Report Share Posted May 17, 2018 I would stick with lee for now but get him an experience no 2. just to help him. and learn from. can only be good for lee and the club going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Dawe Posted May 17, 2018 Report Share Posted May 17, 2018 4 hours ago, EmersonsRed said: This is a serious question, too. Given the utter ineptitude at the highest level of our football club at the moment, would you really trust them to find a better appointment than LJ? This is it. I fear when the time arrives that we have to replace LJ. It's hit and miss for the best of clubs and a bit of a lottery for any club appointing for this position (with one or two exceptions, ie Pep and those at that level). Add to this SL's ropey record on this, and it doesn't bear thinking about. How big is the pool of head coaches he knows and can trust and that will work within our job spec here? Not very big I wouldn't have thought. There is some research somewhere (read it last year; can't find it now) that shows that having a h/c or manager that "knows the league" is irrelevant and simply not backed up by the stats, and that overseas coaches have a better ppg than Uk ones. This research allowed for overseas coaches being in charge of the biggest clubs more likely to win points and still found that homegrown h/c and managers are not the best for this work. The research/stats show SL needs to be looking overseas for the next Marco Silva or whoever but I don't think if he did this it would end well. I don't envy him when the time comes though. Not straightforward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted May 17, 2018 Report Share Posted May 17, 2018 I’m really not sure that SL wants a yes man an often stated criticism. In fact SL can often be accused as being the ‘YES’ man in view of the fact he has said yes to supporting managers with cash for players etc. The SC supporters may not agree, however until the time SC wanted to pay 8 to 10 mil on a player he was always backed, regardless of the rumors surrounding the transfers of Gayle and Grey. We move on a couple of years and we are now paying 5M for the likes of Famara and I would be bound we will be splashing cash again in the close season, whether financed is raised by sales or not... SL will however want a coach that is prepared to put a team together that falls within the ‘five pillars’ and LJ fell in that category although LJ would have said anything to get this job. Personally I’m pretty hacked off with the way we fell apart last season and the quality/readiness of the signings when we were desperate for reinforcements. Nevertheless if SL is prepared to allow LJ, MA etc learn the trade on his dime then unless there is a super offer to LJ to leave then we have him for the foreseeable future. Supposing LJ were to move then McCarthy does tick a few boxes, but I suspect it’s all a bit academic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishRed Posted May 17, 2018 Report Share Posted May 17, 2018 There's is little doubt he is 'winging it' and he will be for some time to come UNLESS there is a 'bigger' club out there prepared to take a chance on him. I doubt that is even remotely likely, therefore we are stuck with him and MA for the foreseeable future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milo1111 Posted May 17, 2018 Report Share Posted May 17, 2018 I’m on the he’s got 10 games next season to turn it around camp. But sadly if he doesn’t and gets sacked It would be another yes man anyway. Some meek character who is not a motivator or leader of men but allows the lansdowns and Mark Ashton the inside line on what is going down in the dressing room. ive always felt this club is at its best when it puffs its chest out so to speak a la cottrells league 1 days. I know Ipswich fans wanted rid but he had no funds there, mick McCarthy would be great at this club and I feel we have the leaders already they just need inspiration. He could do it. Won’t happen though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted May 17, 2018 Report Share Posted May 17, 2018 Jesus, don’t you lot ever let up?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olé Posted May 17, 2018 Report Share Posted May 17, 2018 6 hours ago, EmersonsRed said: Given the utter ineptitude at the highest level of our football club at the moment, would you really trust them to find a better appointment than LJ? Excluding Lee Johnson, who would only make the stat worse, including and since Alan Dicks, we have only hired a manager who has prior experience of doing what we're asking them to do, 14% of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrongagain Posted May 17, 2018 Report Share Posted May 17, 2018 5 hours ago, Hampshire reds said: I would stick with lee for now but get him an experience no 2. just to help him. and learn from. can only be good for lee and the club going forward. An experienced number 2 would have to point him in the right direction! The first time number 2 did that the exit door would be wide open, “we need leaders” but there is actually only room for one, we have seen this since day one - there is only one leader and he only wants people around who agree with him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivorguy Posted May 17, 2018 Report Share Posted May 17, 2018 Whether LJ is good, average, or poor as a Head Coach, the problems at Ashton Gate are far deeper and relate as ever to the questionable ability of the Lansdowns to run BCFC successfully, the whole BS fandango, the supine Board of BCFC, and last but not least our very own Machiavelli- MA. And as others have said I see no evidence whatsoever that those listed above would have much of a clue in securing another Head Coach who could be considered by all as an upgrade on LJ Very depressing really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuber Posted May 17, 2018 Report Share Posted May 17, 2018 Will have to see how we shape up in pre season. Last seasons was decent i.e. Twente and a few morale boosting wins. This is the first season after LJ having 2 summer and two Jan windows. This'll be the third. We should be out of the gates pretty quick, its more a case id we get bogged down. God forbid if we sign more foreign players with no capacity to integrate, it'll just end in tears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfcredandwhite Posted May 17, 2018 Report Share Posted May 17, 2018 Surely ‘depressing’ is when you are a Barnsley, Burton - or particularly a Sunderland fan. 11th in the league isn’t depressing - it’s rather good really!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 17, 2018 Report Share Posted May 17, 2018 24 minutes ago, bcfcredandwhite said: Surely ‘depressing’ is when you are a Barnsley, Burton - or particularly a Sunderland fan. 11th in the league isn’t depressing - it’s rather good really!!!! It is only good if you have overachieved. This squad, these players, our head start at the half way point heading in to a transfer window; 11th was not us overachieving, it was a massive failure. Nonetheless you can't ignore that we went from almost relegated to seriously underachieving at 11th under LJ. Much of that progress I do think is down to coaching. He still has to learn the finer arts of game management but, if he had those we wouldn't be talking about the likes of Swansea West Brom taking him, and he wouldn't be giving the likes of them a second thought. Anyway, LJ has almost made himself unsackable. If we struggle next year SL can probably feel justified sticking with him until the end because the last time he did - after our worst ever run - it worked out alright. Ultimately I don't think LJ is the problem. It is much deeper and comes down to failures above him. I think the club was naive in not at least getting a rb in January, signing a striker who had less impact for us than Sam Vokes, and showed complacency in signing a squad player in a well resourced area and left virtually all other positions threadbare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrongagain Posted May 17, 2018 Report Share Posted May 17, 2018 20 minutes ago, bcfcredandwhite said: Surely ‘depressing’ is when you are a Barnsley, Burton - or particularly a Sunderland fan. 11th in the league isn’t depressing - it’s rather good really!!!! Depressing was watching LJ throw the season away in 2018! Selecting unfit and unmotivated players and refusing to learn from his mistakes! Total betrayal of club and fans! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pillred Posted May 17, 2018 Report Share Posted May 17, 2018 8 hours ago, David Brent said: Personally I’m neither in or out at this moment but I wouldn’t mind Mick McCarthy, and it’s a realistic option. but do you shake it all about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 17 hours ago, EmersonsRed said: This is a serious question, too. Given the utter ineptitude at the highest level of our football club at the moment, would you really trust them to find a better appointment than LJ? I'm LJ in personally, but I do understand why people are LJ out. Think our biggest problem on the pitch is our recruitment (ironically it's the same off of it). But do any of you genuinely believe we can get a better coach then Lee Johnson? After all, we could've had Warnock, but he's not a yes man. We could've had Nigel Pearson, but he wanted his own backroom staff and they weren't yes men. Who do you think we could employ? Good answers appreciated, sure there will be some who just say "anyone" and don't think anything through. But really interested to know who you think our awful board would appoint Thats a very good question. Unless there is a complete clear out of the management team including the owners son (which won't of course happen) then I couldn't trust that shower of shit to do anything right. When at Hargreaves Lansdown, SL would have recruited the very very best available and paid the market rate. He refers to football as a business but he doesn't treat it as such. In my opinion LJ shouldn't have got the job in the first place as he had done nothing to merit recruitment by a club with stated aspirations to get into the Premier league, but hes here and going nowhere as it would mean that SL got it wrong again, and he isn't having that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 17 hours ago, EmersonsRed said: This is a serious question, too. Given the utter ineptitude at the highest level of our football club at the moment, would you really trust them to find a better appointment than LJ? I'm LJ in personally, but I do understand why people are LJ out. Think our biggest problem on the pitch is our recruitment (ironically it's the same off of it). But do any of you genuinely believe we can get a better coach then Lee Johnson? After all, we could've had Warnock, but he's not a yes man. We could've had Nigel Pearson, but he wanted his own backroom staff and they weren't yes men. Who do you think we could employ? Good answers appreciated, sure there will be some who just say "anyone" and don't think anything through. But really interested to know who you think our awful board would appoint no i don't trust tem which is why both him and ashton have to go imo, but I'm not going to bring it in to everythread, and hopefully I get a good I told you so at the end of next season as it means my team are doing well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmersonsRed Posted May 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 6 hours ago, Monkeh said: no i don't trust tem which is why both him and ashton have to go imo, but I'm not going to bring it in to everythread, and hopefully I get a good I told you so at the end of next season as it means my team are doing well And Jon Lansdown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmersonsRed Posted May 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 23 hours ago, David Brent said: Personally I’m neither in or out at this moment but I wouldn’t mind Mick McCarthy, and it’s a realistic option. How do you think that would go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 16 hours ago, Ivorguy said: Whether LJ is good, average, or poor as a Head Coach, the problems at Ashton Gate are far deeper and relate as ever to the questionable ability of the Lansdowns to run BCFC successfully, the whole BS fandango, the supine Board of BCFC, and last but not least our very own Machiavelli- MA. And as others have said I see no evidence whatsoever that those listed above would have much of a clue in securing another Head Coach who could be considered by all as an upgrade on LJ Very depressing really Exactly this, everyone here does as they are told or are gone already, woe betide anyone who questions the man.......oh for a proper board not a one man band job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RT's Vaseline Tub Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 LJ is not the problem - Mark Ashton is. Only seen or heard of when things are going well & his January transfer window was woeful. Scouting pretty useless too under his tenure as we all know a good player when we see one but they possibly do not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dullmoan Tone Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 12 minutes ago, RT's Vaseline Tub said: LJ is not the problem - Mark Ashton is. Only seen or heard of when things are going well & his January transfer window was woeful. Scouting pretty useless too under his tenure as we all know a good player when we see one but they possibly do not... While I am no fan - this is complete and utter nonsense. MA doesn't pick the team, make the substitutions (or not), change the tactics midway through the game, send Flint up front etc etc It may be "on-trend" to blame MA and there is a lot he is responsible for, but our form is firmly the fault of LJ and the playing staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoystonFoote'snephew Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 30 minutes ago, Bri Stool City said: Exactly this, everyone here does as they are told or are gone already, woe betide anyone who questions the man.......oh for a proper board not a one man band job. In most people’s living memory City have had two Chairmen/owners who have truly driven the club forward - Harry Dolman and Steve Lansdown. Pretty much everyone else has presided over a club seen as a joke. But the bit that gets me is the naive belief that democracy has anything to do with running a football club. Both HD and SL are rarities, being successful businessmen from Bristol. SL gets to have his way because it’s his money, which he has liberally spent to keep this club afloat. Much rather him than some of the jokes of boards we have been saddled with in the past, and infinitely better than some overseas owner with no affinity or love for the club whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Brent Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 1 hour ago, EmersonsRed said: How do you think that would go? I think we’d be a lot more organised. Certainly wouldn’t throw away 3 goal leads. I think the younger players would get more game time. I think we’d be a lot more solid overall. No guff, no blaming individuals. Someone who wouldn’t need help in managing big personalities. Just a solid championship manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmersonsRed Posted May 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 Just now, David Brent said: I think we’d be a lot more organised. Certainly wouldn’t throw away 3 goal leads. I think the younger players would get more game time. I think we’d be a lot more solid overall. No guff, no blaming individuals. Someone who wouldn’t need help in managing big personalities. Just a solid championship manager. Sorry. I realise now my response was stupidly vague, replied in a rush as was pre-occupied. I meant with the board. Everything stems back to the board, to MA, imagine Big Mick in the media saying the board haven't backed him enough, criticising things around the club. Even if he was right to say those particular things, the board would have none of it. Unfortunately for the foreseeable future our club will likely be full of yes men. FWIW I wouldn't be against Mick, I agree, he'd be solid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Brent Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, EmersonsRed said: Sorry. I realise now my response was stupidly vague, replied in a rush as was pre-occupied. I meant with the board. Everything stems back to the board, to MA, imagine Big Mick in the media saying the board haven't backed him enough, criticising things around the club. Even if he was right to say those particular things, the board would have none of it. Unfortunately for the foreseeable future our club will likely be full of yes men. FWIW I wouldn't be against Mick, I agree, he'd be solid I realise now that was the point of your OP...that’s the only negative I can see with MM. He’s not afraid to say it how it is. That would probably count against him. Cotterill was afforded more time by the board because he was so successful, at League One. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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