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Why we should all be concerned about what’s happening off the pitch


Ron W

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22 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I saw the tweet over the weekend

to be honest there was a lot of crap over the 14 pages, but you can’t tarnish a whole forum based on that. 

I gloss by the stuff I have no interest in, get involved in the stuff I am. You don’t have to read or comment on everything, even when you’re close to 10k posts!!!

He's not wrong. Call me a snowflake but I cringed so hard at some of the misogynistic 'banter'.

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37 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I saw the tweet over the weekend

to be honest there was a lot of crap over the 14 pages, but you can’t tarnish a whole forum based on that. 

I gloss by the stuff I have no interest in, get involved in the stuff I am. You don’t have to read or comment on everything, even when you’re close to 10k posts!!!

That’s very true but it’s still no excuse for some of the opinions/bile offered on OTIB and especially the downright misogynistic messges on this thread. It’s a forum, granted and the old argument of you don’t have to read/listen to bigoted views is very tiresome.

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Not specifically replying to the OP which was just a re-hash of what others have already said on hear (oh well typical journalism!), but the theme repeated again from other threads about how the club has changed, well as a season ticket holder for 30+ years and standing in the enclosure before that, I glad the club is modernising, or it will be like the other dinosaurs and become extinct. If you want someone to blame about modern football and changes then blame the introduction of the premier league, who changed the dynamics of English football to keep most of the money in the top division and create elite clubs with massive earning differentials. 

I agree the club does not always get it right and AB departure (although we do not know the full story) and ticket pricing are clear issues to fans. But for some to always want to jump on the band wagon and use anything to attack the Lansdowns or Bristol Sport, is crazy. I have no problem with the concept of BS, the more that can be done to generate income which finances the club the better, I don't believe the day will ever come when BCFC identity is lost to BS, but if that day came its easy to change my opinion and then react against it.

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5 minutes ago, EmissionImpossible said:

That’s very true but it’s still no excuse for some of the opinions/bile offered on OTIB and especially the downright misogynistic messges on this thread. It’s a forum, granted and the old argument of you don’t have to read/listen to bigoted views is very tiresome.

Yep. And the mods tried there best to control the posts. But as a poster I can’t control what someone else posts. 

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19 minutes ago, EmissionImpossible said:

That’s very true but it’s still no excuse for some of the opinions/bile offered on OTIB and especially the downright misogynistic messges on this thread. It’s a forum, granted and the old argument of you don’t have to read/listen to bigoted views is very tiresome.

Interesting speech

Are you suggesting some of our female posters are ‘misogynistic’ 

 

and was it not you who used the c word the other day (With asterisks ?)

 

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7 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Interesting speech

Are you suggesting some of our female posters are ‘misogynistic’ 

 

and was it not you who used the c word the other day (With asterisks ?)

 

I did use ‘the c word’ not that has anything to do with misogyny unless using ‘the D word’ does to? 

Im not suggesting our female posters are misogynistic but yes women can be misogynists.

 

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, EmissionImpossible said:

I did use ‘the c word’ not that has anything to do with misogyny unless using ‘the D word’ does to? 

Im not suggesting our female posters are misogynistic but yes women can be misogynists.

 

 

 

 

Id suggest that use of particular word is disrespectful to many women 

And a lot of the posts you refer to in another thread were posted by our excellent female posters - they must be women haters according to you

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57 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Had supporters mingling with fans in the Supporters club and pubs like the Holmesdale building relations with fans. Nothing unusual about this at clubs. Commonplace.

It’s just funny you mention Palace, because me next door neighbour is a life long fan and was only telling me how since the American’s came in, a lot of that is not the same anymore. In fact - spending is less and games are increasingly geared to the American market with cheerleaders/fire display stuff - all very super bowl and not premier league - fans of the once family club don’t quite paint the same picture as you at the moment. 

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3 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Id suggest that use of particular word is disrespectful to many women 

And a lot of the posts you refer to in another thread were posted by our excellent female posters - they must be women haters according to you

Interesting one, in most of the English speaking world that is correct, imagine my surprise when i find it is not much of a issue in Eire, where many women use it and it isn't considered that bad!

 

Couple of Irish guys at work use it all the time and have to apologise knowing how it upsets the rest of the people in the UK

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On 18/05/2018 at 18:20, RonWalker said:

Hi guys. First-time poster, long-time reader. For anyone who used to post here in the late-2000s, I was a member called Ron who was quite irritating and eventually got banned.

Anyway, I’m now a sports journalist and keep in touch with people at AG both professionally and a fan, but as a fan I couldn’t sit on my hands any longer about some of the rubbish that has come out of Ashton Gate recently. It’s too long for twitter, so I wrote a blog on it... if you don’t mind, I’ll post it here, because it’s stuff I’d like to think we should all know.

You might think some of it’s obvious, taking over old ground or untrue, and that’s fine, but all the conclusions in it are based on facts and I felt it was important to collate them amid all the hearsay you get in football.

Here goes...

There’s nothing wrong as such at Bristol City Football Club, but even from the little I’ve seen of the inside of the club things are changing, and people should know about them to draw their own conclusions.

No one knows about this or has asked me to write this and I may get asked to take it down. These are not facts but conclusions based on fact, which I personally find concerning and think we all should be aware of.

The Ashton Gate redesign was always going to change the way the club functioned. That’s fine. But the core support, the man and woman sat at the back of the South Stand in the cheaper seats, with a glass of Thatcher’s and a replica shirt instead of a glass of wine and an Oxford shirt are being marginalised, and the club don’t want you to know.

Everything around Adam Baker’s departure serves as the latest example of that, and the one which has captured public feeling the most. City are moving away from having a figure to lead BCFC’s media content (exceptionally well, too) because they think it’s more important to build the brand, as a number of people have said second-hand. It’s taking a huge voice who understands the fans and how the club can best serve us, or at least inconvenience/annoy us least, and replacing them with someone who can sell a shiny image. If you think one man isn’t important, then see how the vibe changes next season. A brand manager doesn’t have the man on the street in their mind, other than how to get into their wallet. It’s increasingly clear that a soft, fluffy public image of Bristol City is more important than understanding fans, which is no better highlighted for me than by the fact the most senior remaining media representative at Ashton Gate has only a passing interest in football and once asked me “Who scored that goal?” after runaway-top-scorer Jonathan Kodjia had netted at Nottingham Forest. Didn’t have a clue.

Making that announcement nearly a week after it had already been broken by the Bristol Post was itself astounding, as was the decision to patronise us as a fanbase by expecting us to swallow what was written when it had been so plainly clear what the truth is (which is disgusting in my view, and easily found on twitter or otib) for a long while. One of the main rules of PR is to act quickly and decisively to shut down backlash, something Adam told me himself a few years ago. Snail mail would have been quicker on this occasion.

That leads nicely on into the debacle that was the Season Ticket pricing for next season. Aside from alienating fans further by trying to charge almost £200 for a child to sit in the Lansdown Stand, and blindsiding disabled fans with significant rises, City also claimed the whole farce was down a ‘communication error’. Well yes, there was no communication, but also an astounding tone-deaf approach to the whole idea. Putting up children’s tickets by 200% in some cases isn’t just a big rise, it’s out of touch with the common man yet again, and the fact the people at the top of Bristol Sport not only allowed it to happen but made it happen speaks volumes in my view.

There will probably be more PR disasters next season, with fewer people who understand – or more importantly care – what the little man in the stand thinks, so long as the club is well-branded and edgy. Make no mistake, the direction of the club, and the decisions which have been made recently and longer-term, are viewed as successes by those at the top. It won’t harm the club on the pitch, it will probably bring in more revenue, and you’d have a valid argument to ask, “who cares? Stop moaning.” But if you think a club’s heart and soul is its fans, and that we should be understood or at least listened to, it should at least be a concern that the club is moving away from that mindset and towards a bland corporate utopia led by people who in many cases are increasingly out of touch with the bedrock of this game.

I think you were great on Catchphrase 

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I saw the tweet over the weekend

to be honest there was a lot of crap over the 14 pages, but you can’t tarnish a whole forum based on that. 

I gloss by the stuff I have no interest in, get involved in the stuff I am. You don’t have to read or comment on everything, even when you’re close to 10k posts!!!

It was the "most astonishing misogyny" was it? Blimey, it must've been bad then. Even Harvey Weinstein would've been appalled, presumably? 

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I saw the tweet over the weekend

to be honest there was a lot of crap over the 14 pages, but you can’t tarnish a whole forum based on that. 

I gloss by the stuff I have no interest in, get involved in the stuff I am. You don’t have to read or comment on everything, even when you’re close to 10k posts!!!

Looking at that blokes ‘tweets.’ Dave

 

3 things strike me - 

Hypocrite

Bit of an idiot

His opinion can be disregarded

:thumbsup:

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20 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

It’s just funny you mention Palace, because me next door neighbour is a life long fan and was only telling me how since the American’s came in, a lot of that is not the same anymore. In fact - spending is less and games are increasingly geared to the American market with cheerleaders/fire display stuff - all very super bowl and not premier league - fans of the once family club don’t quite paint the same picture as you at the moment. 

Thinking about it now, there was a lot of "commercial" carry-on at AG back in the 70s, and attempts to raise funds, with ladies jigging about in their knickers and chimpanzee tea parties and police dog displays and cars crawling around the perimeter of the pitch. All sorts of nonsense. Presumably, some old buffers back then despaired of it all, while I was 11 years old and thought nothing of it. It was normal. Didn't know any different. Much like the 11 year olds at AG now, I'd imagine.

The-Robin-Rockin-Robins.jpg.a40418dd77ecd9b3e963742a99a886bf.jpg

No wonder Kevin Mabbutt went off the boyle, mind. He's trying to be a footballer and score goals and there's a gaggle of bloody girls stood about in their pants! Ffs. Imagine us at work trying to get stuff done and there's birds stood about in their smalls. 

At least at Palace, they buy their cheerladies some small skirts. Ridiculous though, in 2018. 

PS. My fave's the third from the right.

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1 hour ago, Jack Dawe said:

Thinking about it now, there was a lot of "commercial" carry-on at AG back in the 70s, and attempts to raise funds, with ladies jigging about in their knickers and chimpanzee tea parties and police dog displays and cars crawling around the perimeter of the pitch. All sorts of nonsense. Presumably, some old buffers back then despaired of it all, while I was 11 years old and thought nothing of it. It was normal. Didn't know any different. Much like the 11 year olds at AG now, I'd imagine.

The-Robin-Rockin-Robins.jpg.a40418dd77ecd9b3e963742a99a886bf.jpg

No wonder Kevin Mabbutt went off the boyle, mind. He's trying to be a footballer and score goals and there's a gaggle of bloody girls stood about in their pants! Ffs. Imagine us at work trying to get stuff done and there's birds stood about in their smalls. 

At least at Palace, they buy their cheerladies some small skirts. Ridiculous though, in 2018. 

PS. My fave's the third from the right.

I worked with one of them.....in a Bank :P

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Welcome back. 

Frankly, I think it's a bit insulting to talk about new fans like that. I am by no means a regular any more, I struggle to recognise players.  But does that mean my money's no good?

As for the more business-like style: good. This club was a ******* shambles when I first started watching regularly in the eighties. Nothing had improved or changed until the nineties, Davison moved things on a bit, but still. I heard a story about someone recently meeting Les Ferdinand at QPR, who said we were a nice club but a shambles behind the scenes.

I want a future for my club. Harking back to the good old days will take us back to the brink.

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2 hours ago, Jack Dawe said:

Thinking about it now, there was a lot of "commercial" carry-on at AG back in the 70s, and attempts to raise funds, with ladies jigging about in their knickers and chimpanzee tea parties and police dog displays and cars crawling around the perimeter of the pitch. All sorts of nonsense. Presumably, some old buffers back then despaired of it all, while I was 11 years old and thought nothing of it. It was normal. Didn't know any different. Much like the 11 year olds at AG now, I'd imagine.

I must admit, I had a similar thought when I read that thread about how popcorn on sale at some grounds spelt the "end of football".

I bet some old Kodjia in a flat cap in 1970 thought that selling hotdogs and burgers at AG was the "death of football" and "creeping Americanism", while in the 1900s, an old cove with a walrus moustache and spats probably thought "these confounded modern football rattles and colourful scarfs mean Association Football is no longer the game that it was!"

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On 20/05/2018 at 12:42, RonWalker said:

Perhaps it would be useful to consider whether the person in charge of communication and PR takes orders from above?

Your'e right Ron,  Yes men required in all departments, seen it in all jobs I have had in my 50 years of work experience,  including temporary jobs I had due to being made redundant five times during Thatchers reign.  So it's not going to be any different with Bristol Sport in charge.

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3 hours ago, Alessandro said:

It’s just funny you mention Palace, because me next door neighbour is a life long fan and was only telling me how since the American’s came in, a lot of that is not the same anymore. In fact - spending is less and games are increasingly geared to the American market with cheerleaders/fire display stuff - all very super bowl and not premier league - fans of the once family club don’t quite paint the same picture as you at the moment. 

Palace have had their cheerleaders for over eight years....long before the Americans came in there....and they’re ok (!)...

 

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4 hours ago, TRL said:

Interesting one, in most of the English speaking world that is correct, imagine my surprise when i find it is not much of a issue in Eire, where many women use it and it isn't considered that bad!

 

Couple of Irish guys at work use it all the time and have to apologise knowing how it upsets the rest of the people in the UK

I used to hate that word and never used it but now think it sums up certain people, perfectly. :city:

 

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4 hours ago, Jack Dawe said:

Thinking about it now, there was a lot of "commercial" carry-on at AG back in the 70s, and attempts to raise funds, with ladies jigging about in their knickers and chimpanzee tea parties and police dog displays and cars crawling around the perimeter of the pitch. All sorts of nonsense. Presumably, some old buffers back then despaired of it all, while I was 11 years old and thought nothing of it. It was normal. Didn't know any different. Much like the 11 year olds at AG now, I'd imagine.

The-Robin-Rockin-Robins.jpg.a40418dd77ecd9b3e963742a99a886bf.jpg

No wonder Kevin Mabbutt went off the boyle, mind. He's trying to be a footballer and score goals and there's a gaggle of bloody girls stood about in their pants! Ffs. Imagine us at work trying to get stuff done and there's birds stood about in their smalls. 

At least at Palace, they buy their cheerladies some small skirts. Ridiculous though, in 2018. 

PS. My fave's the third from the right.

I never realised he`d fallen out with Terry. You live and learn.

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6 hours ago, Alessandro said:

It’s just funny you mention Palace, because me next door neighbour is a life long fan and was only telling me how since the American’s came in, a lot of that is not the same anymore. In fact - spending is less and games are increasingly geared to the American market with cheerleaders/fire display stuff - all very super bowl and not premier league - fans of the once family club don’t quite paint the same picture as you at the moment. 

Your point was 

"A lovely notion - but name me one football club in the top 2, even 3 divisions where something like this actual goes on - or has even gone on for about 20 years? "

Something like this did go on at CPFC in the last twenty, no ten, no five years and I could have picked other clubs. 

Not funny at all. I have family in Thornton Heath. Palace fans. I have occasionally watched Palace, have a faint interest in the Nigels and know for instance the Cheerleaders were at Palace before the Americans took over.

 

 

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Fine the cheerleaders existed before the Americans, I remember 15 years when we had them. The cheerleaders are not the whole point however, and the Americanisation is there none the less.

My point still stands that your example at Palace is outdated (we can argue over how many years, but it doesn’t matter) and the whole notion is outdated - your only specific example being Palace and the occasional times their players mingled with fans. Well City players mingle with fans at pre-season friendlies at Ashton Gate and attend the odd community trust session, for example? The management came to the supporters trust q and a last summer. 

All standard stuff other clubs do as well - but I’ll say again, the notion of a professional footballer regularly sitting down for a beer and a chat with the average fan after a game - sorry, fantasy land.

 

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15 hours ago, Jack Dawe said:

Thinking about it now, there was a lot of "commercial" carry-on at AG back in the 70s, and attempts to raise funds, with ladies jigging about in their knickers and chimpanzee tea parties and police dog displays and cars crawling around the perimeter of the pitch. All sorts of nonsense. Presumably, some old buffers back then despaired of it all, while I was 11 years old and thought nothing of it. It was normal. Didn't know any different. Much like the 11 year olds at AG now, I'd imagine.

The-Robin-Rockin-Robins.jpg.a40418dd77ecd9b3e963742a99a886bf.jpg

No wonder Kevin Mabbutt went off the boyle, mind. He's trying to be a footballer and score goals and there's a gaggle of bloody girls stood about in their pants! Ffs. Imagine us at work trying to get stuff done and there's birds stood about in their smalls. 

At least at Palace, they buy their cheerladies some small skirts. Ridiculous though, in 2018. 

PS. My fave's the third from the right.

.......fourth from left..

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1 hour ago, Alessandro said:

Fine the cheerleaders existed before the Americans, I remember 15 years when we had them. The cheerleaders are not the whole point however, and the Americanisation is there none the less.

My point still stands that your example at Palace is outdated (we can argue over how many years, but it doesn’t matter) and the whole notion is outdated - your only specific example being Palace and the occasional times their players mingled with fans. Well City players mingle with fans at pre-season friendlies at Ashton Gate and attend the odd community trust session, for example? The management came to the supporters trust q and a last summer. 

All standard stuff other clubs do as well - but I’ll say again, the notion of a professional footballer regularly sitting down for a beer and a chat with the average fan after a game - sorry, fantasy land.

 

Your post was incorrect. You are arguing about your own timescale of twenty years. You are now moving the goal posts again. Your posts are in a state of flux and vague  

Nick J's point was about monetary value and access/association to Bristol City players. This is relatively new and something I have noticed as a customer purchasing Community Trust products - Access to players by Bristol City (I am told it is Bristol Sport driving it) is linked to the purchase of costly partnerships. Junior clubs in Bristol including charities are being expected to pay for visits from players.  Contact between Bristol City and its a Community is based upon finance.

That is unhealthy.

I agree with Nick J's point that normal interaction between players and fans is being discouraged towards wringing more money out of fans.

 

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18 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Your post was incorrect. You are arguing about your own timescale of twenty years. You are now moving the goal posts again. Your posts are in a state of flux and vague  

Nick J's point was about monetary value and access/association to Bristol City players. This is relatively new and something I have noticed as a customer purchasing Community Trust products - Access to players by Bristol City is being linked to the purchase of costly partnerships.  The biggest junior clubs in Bristol including charities are being expected to pay for visits from players. That is unhealthy.

I agree with Nick J's point that normal interaction between players and fans is being discouraged towards wringing more money out of fans.

 

I don’t think my posts are vague, but that’s your opinion - perhaps it’s your understanding, given you’ve dived into a part of the thread that you weren’t initially involved in. 

My main point was in reference to a comment by NickJ “don't suppose the days of the 50's (before my time) will ever return where the players travelled to games on the bus with the fans, but nevertheless it wasn't so long ago where for example many of the players went into theSupporters Club after each game and had a pint and a chat with the fans, just for the enjoyment of it”

I said that was a notion at least 20 years old in all but a very few cases.

Your spiel about monetisation of player interaction, I’ve already taken the time to address that point back in post #83 - if you’d taken the time to read it.

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