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F.A. Cup final


myol'man

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I didn't think it was a bad game, but Man U were,  as AS said on the Beeb,  in possession a lot,  but seem to always pass sideways or back when they should be passing forward, especially in the first half.  Thought Chelsea defended well,  but really Pogba should have scored from the corner and then it would have been a different game.

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39 minutes ago, RED4LIFE said:

Tbf, I can remember watching Jones when he was at Blackburn and he was easily one of the best defenders I have seen for a 19 year old.

I personally think there is an excellent player there somewhere but he seems to be made of glass and injuries have stifled his progress massively. 

Unfortunately, England are very weak in the two CB positions.

Personally, I would have called up Ben Mee to play alongside Tarkowski as they have both been immense this year. 

I like the 3 at the back with Walker on the right. Get why Cahill is going. would have Tarkowski over Stones. Plus I like Harry Maguire just a bit slow. It isn’t a horrid defense though. Young will be good enough for this season on the left. 

For England, it is whether their midfield is dynamic enough. Henderson I have no clue what he brings to any team. Dier is ok but more of a defensive midfielder which is a bit redundant with 3 at the back imo. Then players like Alli and Lingard probably not defensive enough for the midfield in a 352. 

The forwards and attacking midfielders are good but tough to get them all in the side. I may have sacrificed Rashford or Welbeck for a Shelvey or Wilshere. Either would have offered something a bit different than the current midfield. With forwards you’d still have Kane, Vardy and Rashford/Welbeck plus Alli who has played up front and Sterling who would offer an option in an emergency

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10 minutes ago, EstoniaTallinnRed said:

I didn't think it was a bad game, but Man U were,  as AS said on the Beeb,  in possession a lot,  but seem to always pass sideways or back when they should be passing forward, especially in the first half.  Thought Chelsea defended well,  but really Pogba should have scored from the corner and then it would have been a different game.

Passing sideways? Well, it was the Ray Wilkins final !

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1 hour ago, Fordy62 said:

Is that a rule nowadays then? I’m lazy and drunk so can you copy and paste the legislation for me please mate?

Law 12

Quote
Quote

Where a player commits an offence against an opponent within their own penalty area which denies an opponent an obvious goal-scoring opportunity and the referee awards a penalty kick, the offending player is cautioned if the offence was an attempt to play the ball; in all other circumstances (e.g. holding, pulling, pushing, no possibility to play the ball etc.) the offending player must be sent off.
 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Olé said:

People are going to say Mourinho is losing his touch but these Man Utd players make so many basic mistakes, they've had the ball and barely given Chelsea a game. On current form I wouldn't have half of them in the City team. Pogba is hopelessly overrated.

To be honest, most of them are. Go on the Man U forum and they think Martial is the best thing since sliced bread. He is about a tenth of the player Ryan Giggs was. And Rashford, while showing promise, is nothing compared to Ruud Van Nistelrooy. Jose gets stick for his tactics, but at the moment his hands are tied with some of the players at his disposal. And don't get me started on Sanchez and his £500k a week. Arguably the biggest waste of money in football history.

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7 minutes ago, cheese said:

Mourinho out.  Transfer dealings appalling, tactics wrong.  Never admits his mistakes.

I wonder what the Utd consensus is on Jose. If we were as massive as Utd would we take a Europa League, League Cup and 2nd place over two seasons? I think they may be underwhelmed. Suffering from their own success. 

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2 minutes ago, BCFCGav said:

I wonder what the Utd consensus is on Jose. If we were as massive as Utd would we take a Europa League, League Cup and 2nd place over two seasons? I think they may be underwhelmed. Suffering from their own success. 

It makes it worse when it`s City that are so much better than them doesn`t it? They can probably see many years of being in their shadow now - a bit like they were with Liverpool back in the 70s & 80s.

Impossible I know but just imagine how we would feel if all of a sudden the pikeys from over the river became vastly superior to us after being well behind City for decades - it doesn`t bear thinking about!

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1 hour ago, JoeAman08 said:

I like the 3 at the back with Walker on the right. Get why Cahill is going. would have Tarkowski over Stones. Plus I like Harry Maguire just a bit slow. It isn’t a horrid defense though. Young will be good enough for this season on the left. 

For England, it is whether their midfield is dynamic enough. Henderson I have no clue what he brings to any team. Dier is ok but more of a defensive midfielder which is a bit redundant with 3 at the back imo. Then players like Alli and Lingard probably not defensive enough for the midfield in a 352. 

The forwards and attacking midfielders are good but tough to get them all in the side. I may have sacrificed Rashford or Welbeck for a Shelvey or Wilshere. Either would have offered something a bit different than the current midfield. With forwards you’d still have Kane, Vardy and Rashford/Welbeck plus Alli who has played up front and Sterling who would offer an option in an emergency

Agree with most of that Joe apart from the Henderson comment. I think JH is a much better player than most people give him credit for. Granted, he is unlikely to score or create many goals but he makes his team mates better as they know he will do the hard work if they are caught out of position. He is, (to steal a phrase from Zidane) a water carrier. As Deschamps was for ZZ. The type of player that goes unnoticed to most casual observers but who his team mates love.

If we are going to relate it to a City player, Skuse is probably the closest we have had recently. Technically excellent and happy to do the shit stuff like covering a fullback out of position or just keeping possession and slowing the tempo down.

Personally, I think every good team has had one of those type of players. EG, Busquets, McMahon, Peter Reid, Kante, Keane etc.

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6 minutes ago, RED4LIFE said:

Agree with most of that Joe apart from the Henderson comment. I think JH is a much better player than most people give him credit for. Granted, he is unlikely to score or create many goals but he makes his team mates better as they know he will do the hard work if they are caught out of position. He is, (to steal a phrase from Zidane) a water carrier. As Deschamps was for ZZ. The type of player that goes unnoticed to most casual observers but who his team mates love.

If we are going to relate it to a City player, Skuse is probably the closest we have had recently. Technically excellent and happy to do the shit stuff like covering a fullback out of position or just keeping possession and slowing the tempo down.

Personally, I think every good team has had one of those type of players. EG, Busquets, McMahon, Peter Reid, Kante, Keane etc.

Good post.

Busquets however is world class. Some of the most intelligent passes and breaking of the lines I've ever seen. Master of disguising where he's gonna put the ball.

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1 minute ago, ZiderEyed said:

Good post.

Busquets however is world class. Some of the most intelligent passes and breaking of the lines I've ever seen. Master of disguising where he's gonna put the ball.

Yeah, Busquets wasn't the best comparison but he was the first person to pop into my head. Although, compared to some of his team mates, will he be the one of the first players people will talk about in 10/20 years when people discuss how good that Barca side was?

As somebody who played that exact role for a few teams I feel a certain affinity with that type of player. The fact I came 2nd in the players player of the year awards for 5 years running with one of my teams kind of backs up my statement. Yeah, it still rankles...........:blush2:

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1 minute ago, RED4LIFE said:

Yeah, Busquets wasn't the best comparison but he was the first person to pop into my head. Although, compared to some of his team mates, will he be the one of the first players people will talk about in 10/20 years when people discuss how good that Barca side was?

As somebody who played that exact role for a few teams I feel a certain affinity with that type of player. The fact I came 2nd in the players player of the year awards for 5 years running with one of my teams kind of backs up my statement. Yeah, it still rankles...........:blush2:

I think in serious footballing circles he'll be regarded as being a brilliant player and massively underrated in his day. The fact he's been playing for Barca for 10 years says it all for me. Del Bosque once said "If you watch the whole game, you won't see Busquets—but watch Busquets, and you will see the whole game."

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41 minutes ago, RED4LIFE said:

Agree with most of that Joe apart from the Henderson comment. I think JH is a much better player than most people give him credit for. Granted, he is unlikely to score or create many goals but he makes his team mates better as they know he will do the hard work if they are caught out of position. He is, (to steal a phrase from Zidane) a water carrier. As Deschamps was for ZZ. The type of player that goes unnoticed to most casual observers but who his team mates love.

If we are going to relate it to a City player, Skuse is probably the closest we have had recently. Technically excellent and happy to do the shit stuff like covering a fullback out of position or just keeping possession and slowing the tempo down.

Personally, I think every good team has had one of those type of players. EG, Busquets, McMahon, Peter Reid, Kante, Keane etc.

Tbh mate, I specifically watched just him for 10-15 minutes against Palace during the season and he was lazy and unimagineative. He’d stand and ask for ball at feet with palace players between him and the ball. He wouldn’t pass forward and he would not even jog to find space. Liverpool were woeful that day and I just can’t like him as a player. So I may have an irrational hate of him. When playing bigger teams and Liverpool playing to their strengths he is a good piece in pressing and winning the ball back. In a team with a lot of possesion he offers little for me. 

So yea I get he offers some things as he seems to play for everyone that manages him. Personally, I’d hope Dier can fill that role similar to a Busquets and to allow a more creative player some freedom. Though think England will start with those two and asking for all the goals to come from the front 2. Could work if they can work on hitting that pass down the channels for Vardy. 

I am not English and haven’t been let down by them as much as anyone else here but I think England have a chance this tournament to go a bit further or at least lose to a big favourite and give them a game. Seeing some slight improvement under GS with just a bit more freedom than previous ones. 

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41 minutes ago, ZiderEyed said:

I think in serious footballing circles he'll be regarded as being a brilliant player and massively underrated in his day. The fact he's been playing for Barca for 10 years says it all for me. Del Bosque once said "If you watch the whole game, you won't see Busquets—but watch Busquets, and you will see the whole game."

This is similar to why so many people massively underrated Michael Carrick.

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4 hours ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

My mate Jay, Bristolian many United fan (wearing shirt) sent me this on whatsapp. So not only does he do unthinkable things to dogs, he supports Man United. 

IMG-20180519-WA0013.jpg

Jeez, hate him / them (Man U) more than ever.

1-0 you ***t /  ***ts !!

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1 hour ago, ZiderEyed said:

I think in serious footballing circles he'll be regarded as being a brilliant player and massively underrated in his day. The fact he's been playing for Barca for 10 years says it all for me. Del Bosque once said "If you watch the whole game, you won't see Busquets—but watch Busquets, and you will see the whole game."

Totally agree. It's a cliche but he is what I would call a footballers footballer.

 

1 hour ago, JoeAman08 said:

Tbh mate, I specifically watched just him for 10-15 minutes against Palace during the season and he was lazy and unimagineative. He’d stand and ask for ball at feet with palace players between him and the ball. He wouldn’t pass forward and he would not even jog to find space. Liverpool were woeful that day and I just can’t like him as a player. So I may have an irrational hate of him. When playing bigger teams and Liverpool playing to their strengths he is a good piece in pressing and winning the ball back. In a team with a lot of possesion he offers little for me. 

So yea I get he offers some things as he seems to play for everyone that manages him. Personally, I’d hope Dier can fill that role similar to a Busquets and to allow a more creative player some freedom. Though think England will start with those two and asking for all the goals to come from the front 2. Could work if they can work on hitting that pass down the channels for Vardy. 

I am not English and haven’t been let down by them as much as anyone else here but I think England have a chance this tournament to go a bit further or at least lose to a big favourite and give them a game. Seeing some slight improvement under GS with just a bit more freedom than previous ones. 

Completely understand where you are coming from Joe. He is unimaginative but he doesn't need to be as his role is to do the simple things well. 

I am aware you aren't English but it shouldn't make any difference what nationality you are as most nations have at least one player like JH. Deschamps for France, Fernandinho and Dunga for Brazil, Busquets for Spain, Sami Khedira for Germany to name a few. None are what you would call flair players but all were absolutely crucial to the success of their teams.

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11 minutes ago, RED4LIFE said:

Totally agree. It's a cliche but he is what I would call a footballers footballer.

Can I just wade in here to point out that Busquets is the biggest diver the game has ever seen, not sure he's actually ever got through a game without an oscar winning performance, and that play-acting against Inter in that CL semi final some years ago that got the bloke sent off was absolutely criminal.

I know everyone is at it these days, but I was always struck by how much it was second nature to Busquets, it was a bad day if he couldn't pull off his triple pike.

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1 minute ago, Olé said:

Can I just wade in here to point out that Busquets is the biggest diver the game has ever seen, not sure he's actually ever got through a game without an oscar winning performance, and that play-acting against Inter in that CL semi final some years ago that got the bloke sent off was absolutely criminal.

I know everyone is at it these days, but I was always struck by how much it was second nature to Busquets, it was a bad day if he couldn't pull off his triple pike.

Yep, agreed he is one of the worst for that Rob but when he actually decides to play he ain't half bad.

A bit like Deli Ali but with winners medals.

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1 hour ago, RED4LIFE said:

Totally agree. It's a cliche but he is what I would call a footballers footballer.

 

Completely understand where you are coming from Joe. He is unimaginative but he doesn't need to be as his role is to do the simple things well. 

I am aware you aren't English but it shouldn't make any difference what nationality you are as most nations have at least one player like JH. Deschamps for France, Fernandinho and Dunga for Brazil, Busquets for Spain, Sami Khedira for Germany to name a few. None are what you would call flair players but all were absolutely crucial to the success of their teams.

I do get that everyone successful team has that type in the side. Just not a fan of him but he is not as bad as I make him out to be. Again think England will start him and Dier and that would be a mistake for me. The roles are similar imo. Just not sure who should start and whoelse there is to start next to them

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12 hours ago, Badger08 said:

What a shocking game so far. Pha

Kicking off at ten past five just doesn't feel right. The entertainment was IMO so poor that I turned off and mowed the grass (to the wife's amazement). I turned back on for the last 15 mins.

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59 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

How was that not a red card for the ever hapless Jones?!

Because he was adjudged to have been attempting to get  the ball.  Scroll up on this post.

It's a daft rule in my view that gives carte blanche for professional fouls, providing you make them look like you were attempting to get the ball.

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Listened to the closing moments on the beach.    Was into added time and the London club was a goal ahead and hoped United could find a goal and take it to extra time.  Sadly it wasn't to be but didn't feel too bad about it.    Didn't even give it a thought it was the 40 year anniversary of our own success.

Don't have the enthusiasm for FA Cup Finals now like years before.   Taking it to Cardiff and playing England's greatest knockout competition in Wales wasn't for everyone and the underdogs rarely pull of a surprise anymore.    Chelsea winning a trophy may be nothing new to some but then again I'm of an age to remember them in the old Second division playing in front of 18,000, and winning the old Zenith Data Systems trophy (!)

How times change, and not always for the better.

 

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On 19/05/2018 at 20:56, Red Right Hand said:

It makes it worse when it`s City that are so much better than them doesn`t it? They can probably see many years of being in their shadow now - a bit like they were with Liverpool back in the 70s & 80s.

Impossible I know but just imagine how we would feel if all of a sudden the pikeys from over the river became vastly superior to us after being well behind City for decades - it doesn`t bear thinking about!

We better hope they dont get taken over by a billionaire from the Middle East then!

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