Famara 6 Game Ban (Merged)

[Major Isewater]

29 minutes ago, View from the Dolman said:

For anyone who's interested, the FA have now published the written reasons of the initial commission: 

http://www.thefa.com/-/media/files/thefaportal/governance-docs/discipline-cases/2018/the-fa-v-famara-diedhiou---17-may-2018.ashx

It still stinks . No proof whatsoever that FD spat at DD. 

Just their word against his .

As Muse sang " there's no justice in the world and there never was ".

 

[eastonboy]

So the FA accept that Davis was spat on, but acknowledge that he didn't make an attempt to wipe it off according to the video evidence supplied.

I'm pretty sure that wiping someone's spit would be the second thing to be done( first thing resulting in a 3 match ban for violent conduct)

[Mr Popodopolous]

I don't see how you can draw a definitive conclusion either way from that evidence as provided in the reasons.

Not saying innocent or guilty, more a verdict of case unproven surely? Even allowing for the much lower threshold of evidence needed for FA Disciplinary, it appears to have been a lot of speculative claims plus one player corroborating the claim. Very very questionable.

As for Dean and Davis...16th Feb 2019  or if it's been moved for rugby whatever date it maybe...my advice might be to them- buy some earmuffs.  We as fans should give em hell tbh.

[Monkeh]

best thing to do in this case is FD to score a hat-trick home and away against them

[...]

On 22/05/2018 at 09:39, alexukhc said:

6 games!!!! Jeez

Seems harsh, but how do you stop players gobbing on each other??

............. it's hard to play football in a spit hood ...............

[hinsleburg]

So in the written email from the Linesman he says that neither Davis or Dean said they had been spat on? But this contradicts with both of their statements...?

I don’t know whether or not he did it, but the way the decision has been made is farcical 

[Mr Popodopolous]

9 minutes ago, hinsleburg said:

So in the written email from the Linesman he says that neither Davis or Dean said they had been spat on? But this contradicts with both of their statements...?

I don’t know whether or not he did it, but the way the decision has been made is farcical 

This is the nub.

Twice in under a year we've been done by disciplinary in a fairly arbitrary manner, reached through questionable means- Bailey Wright at Fulham 2 game ban.

Genuinely (how feasible it would have been I'm unsure) wish we could have taken this to CAS in Switzerland, as a Test case- challenging the procedures as much as the outcome.

Perhaps the FA would have been made to change the way they go about the way they reach conclusions in cases like this.

[Olé]

16 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

This is the nub.

Twice in under a year we've been done by disciplinary in a fairly arbitrary manner

I get the impression the FA see us (sadly probably quite rightly) as a backwater they can test rules on or set precent via, knowing we lack sufficient voice, media coverage, or influence to do anything about it. Can you imagine the uproar if this sort of kangaroo court nonsense was happening to the likes of Leeds or Villa, let alone big Premiership teams?

Incidentally, on this "balance of probabilities" thing the FA have used this case, at the risk of undermining anything I've said about the matter, it seems obvious to me that Davis at the very least believes he has been spat on. I don't think it is an engineered story on their part, his reaction in the only public clip (#26, ringed, in video below) has him telling everyone.

https://streamable.com/xpm4q

The catch is that very often people perceive they have been wronged where no such slight exists. Reading the prior documents (not the one released this time) it does seem like we tried to defend FD on a few different basis (sweat, accidental spit), which can't all simultaneously be true, and some of which are inconsistent with one another, which doesn't help.

[Mr Popodopolous]

15 minutes ago, Olé said:

I get the impression the FA see us (sadly probably quite rightly) as a backwater they can test rules on or set precent via, knowing we lack sufficient voice, media coverage, or influence to do anything about it. Can you imagine the uproar if this sort of kangaroo court nonsense was happening to the likes of Leeds or Villa, let alone big Premiership teams?

Incidentally, on this "balance of probabilities" thing the FA have used this case, at the risk of undermining anything I've said about the matter, it seems obvious to me that Davis at the very least believes he has been spat on. I don't think it is an engineered story on their part, his reaction in the only public clip (#26, ringed, in video below) has him telling everyone.

https://streamable.com/xpm4q

The catch is that very often people perceive they have been wronged where no such slight exists. Reading the prior documents (not the one released this time) it does seem like we tried to defend FD on a few different basis (sweat, accidental spit), which can't all simultaneously be true, and some of which are inconsistent with one another, which doesn't help.

Thanks- that's really interesting the footage.

Looks to me like there could have been something- definitely was perceived to be by avis- as you say entirely possible for a belief in being wronged even where none exists.

The variety of defences didn't help either.

Looking at it, Dean is number 12 yeah? He had his back to the thing when going to the ref, how he is a reliable witness I really cannot work out.  It's possible though that when Diedhiou was shouting, raising voice a bit of spittle came out as can sometimes happen, but that's distinct to tempers rising and aiming a spit at Davis. If that's the rules then it's the rules but I still see it as inconclusive- Court of Arbitration for Sport would be a good place to see if the procedure is sound.

[sh1t_ref_again]

Find it more incredible reading the statement now that he got banned for 6 games, as stated in Fams defence, the video evidence could not see the spit, although alleged to have landed on the players chin he made no attempt to wipe it off - who gets spat at and does not wipe it off, although the commision thought this was not important - what a farce

[italian dave]

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I don't see how you can draw a definitive conclusion either way from that evidence as provided in the reasons.

Not saying innocent or guilty, more a verdict of case unproven surely? Even allowing for the much lower threshold of evidence needed for FA Disciplinary, it appears to have been a lot of speculative claims plus one player corroborating the claim. Very very questionable.

As for Dean and Davis...16th Feb 2019  or if it's been moved for rugby whatever date it maybe...my advice might be to them- buy some earmuffs.  We as fans should give em hell tbh.

More to the point, the players know what to do. Player  one squares up to Davis after a tackle or foul, jerks his head backwards, a nearby City player has a moan to the linesman, and Bobs your uncle. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, italian dave said:

More to the point, the players know what to do. Player  one squares up to Davis after a tackle or foul, jerks his head backwards, a nearby City player has a moan to the linesman, and Bobs your uncle. 

Yes- yes- though with the inconsistency of the FA who the hell knows...

However, it would very much serve him right.

[Londoner]

So David Davis moans at the lino.

Lino says he moans but no mention of spitting incident.

We have been shafted.

This investigation is a farce and a disgrace and completely without any evidence whatsoever.

It is based on guesswork.

Makes me sick of footbsll when you see things off the pitch impact a club in such a negative way with no evidence.

Fa bunch of corrupt clowns.

[Olé]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Looking at it, Dean is number 12 yeah? He had his back to the thing when going to the ref, how he is a reliable witness I really cannot work out.  It's possible though that when Diedhiou was shouting, raising voice a bit of spittle came out as can sometimes happen, but that's distinct to tempers rising and aiming a spit at Davis

That video is not the incident itself, so is not the moment Dean could have seen the alleged incident, and Davis getting into Famara's face is the delayed reaction to the incident once the ball is blown dead, not the incident itself. So again don't read anything into that video besides that Davis' reaction is very clear.

This is why I was a little surprised yesterday to find this thread hadn't summarised the video well at all. At the least Davis seems clear something has happened, which I hadn't seen mentioned before. The video is only to show (surprise to me) that this wasn't some after the fact grievance unreported at the time.

As for the incident itself, 30 seconds prior to this clip, Diedhiou is fouled by Davis, ball is cleared upfield (to Kelly) so the camera sees no more, but something clearly happens as the Dolman roars and referee looks over, based on the FA papers, either the incident or more likely Davis/Dean then going to the lino.

There is obviously some kind of video of the incident itself that isn't in the public domain, as it is referred to in the papers shared today. But from what we have to go on, I would at least accept that Davis is convinced he has been spat on, and goes running back over to Fam and then takes it up with Pack, Flint etc.

[AppyDAZE]

I'm sure Famara has learnt his lesson...   Look, if you're getting frustrated during the game..

Just swing a kick at the guy as he walks away

Outcome=  free kick to them, 0 game ban.

Happy days!

 

 

[Harry]

On 22/05/2018 at 10:16, Harry said:

Exactly. 

If he’s done this then we should all be united in condemning it. Just because he’s our player we shouldn’t let him off or defend him in any way. 

It’s disgusting and should be called out as such, whether he’s one of our players or not. 

I’m quoting myself from back in May when this first arose. 

I’m astounded that some of our supporters are still questioning or defending Diedhiou on this. 

I remember the incident. I remember FD and a couple of Brum players having a set-to whilst play was ongoing (not the vid we’ve seen). 

It’s pretty clear to me that FD has done this. 2 players reacted angrily and immediately alerted the officials. Whilst the FA can’t actually see any actual gob on video (the angle would have been far away), it’s pretty clear something very unsavoury occurred to rile up 2 players whilst play carried on. 

Diedhiou did it. Let’s all get over it. There’s no conspiracy against us. Leeds had a player banned 6 games for spitting last year too so it’s not just us. 

We should all be ashamed by his actions and to be honest I’m ashamed at the club for trying to defend him. He should take responsibility and be made to apologise and then we can all move on. 

[NickJ]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

I’m quoting myself from back in May when this first arose. 

I’m astounded that some of our supporters are still questioning or defending Diedhiou on this. 

I remember the incident. I remember FD and a couple of Brum players having a set-to whilst play was ongoing (not the vid we’ve seen). 

It’s pretty clear to me that FD has done this. 2 players reacted angrily and immediately alerted the officials. Whilst the FA can’t actually see any actual gob on video (the angle would have been far away), it’s pretty clear something very unsavoury occurred to rile up 2 players whilst play carried on. 

Diedhiou did it. Let’s all get over it. There’s no conspiracy against us. Leeds had a player banned 6 games for spitting last year too so it’s not just us. 

We should all be ashamed by his actions and to be honest I’m ashamed at the club for trying to defend him. He should take responsibility and be made to apologise and then we can all move on. 

As I've already said as much myself earlier in this thread, and in another when it first happened, naturally I agree with you mate 100%.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, Harry said:

I’m quoting myself from back in May when this first arose. 

I’m astounded that some of our supporters are still questioning or defending Diedhiou on this. 

I remember the incident. I remember FD and a couple of Brum players having a set-to whilst play was ongoing (not the vid we’ve seen). 

It’s pretty clear to me that FD has done this. 2 players reacted angrily and immediately alerted the officials. Whilst the FA can’t actually see any actual gob on video (the angle would have been far away), it’s pretty clear something very unsavoury occurred to rile up 2 players whilst play carried on. 

Diedhiou did it. Let’s all get over it. There’s no conspiracy against us. Leeds had a player banned 6 games for spitting last year too so it’s not just us. 

We should all be ashamed by his actions and to be honest I’m ashamed at the club for trying to defend him. He should take responsibility and be made to apologise and then we can all move on. 

It's hardly conclusive though is it, the evidence.

Perhaps a bit of spittle flew out while he told Davis to '**** off'. Can happen when angry and voice raised, speech fast etc.

[City exile 79]

I personally find spitting disgusting. It’s one of the only things that if done to me then I will lose my shit and think of the consequences later. I believe fam is innocent. I think pinhead walked into it if anything 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Harry said:

I’m quoting myself from back in May when this first arose. 

I’m astounded that some of our supporters are still questioning or defending Diedhiou on this. 

I remember the incident. I remember FD and a couple of Brum players having a set-to whilst play was ongoing (not the vid we’ve seen). 

It’s pretty clear to me that FD has done this. 2 players reacted angrily and immediately alerted the officials. Whilst the FA can’t actually see any actual gob on video (the angle would have been far away), it’s pretty clear something very unsavoury occurred to rile up 2 players whilst play carried on. 

Diedhiou did it. Let’s all get over it. There’s no conspiracy against us. Leeds had a player banned 6 games for spitting last year too so it’s not just us. 

We should all be ashamed by his actions and to be honest I’m ashamed at the club for trying to defend him. He should take responsibility and be made to apologise and then we can all move on. 

So if it was a deliberate spit (rather than a lesser amount when shouting at the player) there would have been a fair amount of visible spit on him that I guess everyone could easily see, it is stated as fact he hasn't wiped it off therefore any player or official could have been shown it couldn't they, (but they never seen it when he complained). WHY had Davis not wiped it off his face??? The first reaction would be to go mental and start a brawl and the second thing would be to wipe your face/chin or wherever it was. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, wood_red said:

So if it was a deliberate spit (rather than a lesser amount when shouting at the player) there would have been a fair amount of visible spit on him that I guess everyone could easily see, it is stated as fact he hasn't wiped it off therefore any player or official could have been shown it couldn't they, (but they never seen it when he complained). WHY had Davis not wiped it off his face??? The first reaction would be to go mental and start a brawl and the second thing would be to wipe your face/chin or wherever it was. 

Exactly right.

Pair of chancers Davis and Dean...reckon they were trying to get him sent off.

[Guest]

Worse thing is the FA think it isn't important to this case or decision.

Absolutely farcical

[Barry Sheene]

What I don't understand is why City haven't challenged it legally. 

Manchester United in the past had a club solicitor called Maurice Watkins who would scare the crap out of the FA and usually win the case against the FA.

Can't believe if we really thought FD was innocent why we wouldn't go down that road or am I missing something?

[Mr Popodopolous]

There are 2 routes to go down legally.

I think before that it would need to be Court of Arbitration of Sport in Lausanne, Switzerland.

If that fails then the proper legal route. Still think we should have tried CAS given it's fairly quick, not just for the ban but for the precedent too.

[Davefevs]

10 hours ago, View from the Dolman said:

For anyone who's interested, the FA have now published the written reasons of the initial commission: 

http://www.thefa.com/-/media/files/thefaportal/governance-docs/discipline-cases/2018/the-fa-v-famara-diedhiou---17-may-2018.ashx

Out of interest, do you think someone independent should have been involved in both cases (Wright and Diedhiou)...because Tony Agana was the independent person in both.

[Harry]

For all those still defending FD and arguing that the case doesn’t have absolute conclusive evidence - albeit it seems pretty clear to me - put yourselves in the other parties shoes.

If this had happened against us, we’d be livid and demanding the bloke be banned. We’d be arguing that there plenty of evidence enough and ‘our’ players have to be trusted on the matter. 

Stop defending him. He did it. It was damn obvious to me at the time that something untoward had occurred. It’s clear that he spat. He should be ashamed, should apologise and we can crack on. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

12 minutes ago, Harry said:

For all those still defending FD and arguing that the case doesn’t have absolute conclusive evidence - albeit it seems pretty clear to me - put yourselves in the other parties shoes.

If this had happened against us, we’d be livid and demanding the bloke be banned. We’d be arguing that there plenty of evidence enough and ‘our’ players have to be trusted on the matter. 

Stop defending him. He did it. It was damn obvious to me at the time that something untoward had occurred. It’s clear that he spat. He should be ashamed, should apologise and we can crack on. 

Surely an argument though isn't whether he's innocent or guilty, but whether it's conclusive?

If it's inconclusive, then it means case not proven- because it can't be. Sort of a legal no man's land.

However I agree that if the boot was on the other foot etc- but the FA's job is to take all that into account and come up with a fair conclusion based on the evidence. Don't see how he's guilty based on the evidence at hand personally- at the same time though, it may not mean he's innocent either necessarily.

[Olé]

47 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Out of interest, do you think someone independent should have been involved in both cases (Wright and Diedhiou)...because Tony Agana was the independent person in both.

Well spotted Dave - I noticed that too. And as stated at the time of the Wright charge, how can you be independent when you are a matchday host at Sheffield United, in the same division?

[Moakesy]

Ultimately though a charge like this needs to be proved - especially with the numbers of cameras at a game these days you would think that there would be sufficient evidence to see something like this clearly.

Just like in the rest of life where a criminal charge will follow you around this will follow FD around for the rest of his career (imagine if the first thing on google when you heard the rumour he was signing was a spitting charge?) and therefore the must be a burden of proof.

Otherwise screw it start squaring up to a rival star player and complaining about being spat at in a pair where the other one says he did it so he’s banned for he last 6 games of the run in? Seems a dangerous precedent to me.

[The Fat Controller]

28 minutes ago, Harry said:

For all those still defending FD and arguing that the case doesn’t have absolute conclusive evidence - albeit it seems pretty clear to me - put yourselves in the other parties shoes.

If this had happened against us, we’d be livid and demanding the bloke be banned. We’d be arguing that there plenty of evidence enough and ‘our’ players have to be trusted on the matter. 

Stop defending him. He did it. It was damn obvious to me at the time that something untoward had occurred. It’s clear that he spat. He should be ashamed, should apologise and we can crack on. 

Would we be arguing there was plenty of evidence? I think most people are capable of being objective enough to realise there is not "plenty of evidence" at all. 

I think if the boot was on the other foot we would argue that our player wouldn't react as he did without just cause, but that really doesn't go very far in terms of offering proof that spitting actually happened.