Why so many unreliable City players ?

[IAmNick]

1 hour ago, DaveInSA said:

To elaborate further.

Everything in the universe is connected by energy. There is only energy and matter. Nothing else. 

The collective subconcious negative belief (an example would be "I am not good enough") of all the Bristol City fans is reflected by the performance of the club, both on and off the pitch. Because these beliefs are subconcious, we need to reprogramme the subconcious mind (rather like wiping a PC's hard drive) to reflect positive reinforcing beliefs (an example would be, I can achieve all my dreams"). If we do this and if we channel these beliefs towards the club, we will improve.

This all sounds a bit star wars, but science is now able to measure "energy". Of course, everybody at the club would also need to change their beliefs too.

Read Biology of Belief by Bruce Lipton. He provides the rationale for how the human mind (specifcially the subconcious mind) is capable of incredible things.

I know we didn't have a great season but has the desperation really come to this nonsense?! Quantum energy? 

[Trueredsupporter]

7 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

It’s pretty obvious, it’s because he’s following instructions. He wouldn’t get in the team if he wasn’t.

If he was told to harass the defence I’m sure he’d try, but it’s not his natural game. Don’t think it’s fair to imply he is ‘unreliable’ because of that. 

 

Yes he is following instruction because he cannot do what Bobby Reid does. he is unreliable in that role when he does try to press.  working as hard as Bobby is not his natural game??? so City had to change for him. He cannot do it properly. You can call it what you want but that is not reliable. players get coated off all the time as being lazy and mentally weak and here???  

[Phileas Fogg]

54 minutes ago, Trueredsupporte said:

Yes he is following instruction because he cannot do what Bobby Reid does. he is unreliable in that role when he does try to press.  working as hard as Bobby is not his natural game??? so City had to change for him. He cannot do it properly. You can call it what you want but that is not reliable. players get coated off all the time as being lazy and mentally weak and here???  

I'm a bit confused now, because I can't tell if you're missing the point on purpose or not.

I thought I'd been quite clear - he's obeying instructions. He's clearly in Johnson's 11 so obviously then it's not a requirement for every single player to be as tenacious as Reid because Diedhiou isn't. 

If he's obeying what he's asked to do - that's reliable. Pretty simple really.

[RedRock]

Aside from being ‘consistently inconsistent’ I currently have no idea what our DNA/team character/pattern of play is. That is a massive worry. 

I had an idea pre-Xmas, and it looked good, very good. It seemed to me we stumbled on the winning formula rather than planned it but, whatever, it worked and was pleasing on the eye. Consistent performances, game plan, strong team character. Everyone knew their roles and played their part. 

From January we just seemed to make it up as we went along. 

The management has to take most of the responsibility for that in terms of tactics, motivation and selections. Players can’t duck all responsibility but the bottom line is that it comes back to the management who bought those consistently inconsistent type of players in.

We need to sort things out quick and stop floundering around. This Summer- which should have been just fine-tuning -is going to be massive, absolutely massive. We need to create a team DNA and game plan. We need a minimum of 3 quality Championship ready performers to weld this team together. Yes, we need leaders those who’ll get stuck in when the going gets tough and won’t let us go on any more abysmal losing runs. Those who provide consistent substance rather than occasional froth. 

If I hear MA/LJ utter that cop out ‘one for the future’ phrase once more I’ll go ******* ballistic. That is just what we don’t need at this stage of our ‘evolution’.

Now LJ/MA, don’t finger point at the fans, players, length of grass - raise your own ******** games and bring in some quality - mentally and physically strong and robust players who can actually withstand the rigours of a English 11-a -side game for a full season. 

[Chappers]

Confidence was a major factor in our good run, and lack of, in our poor run. We also lost one of our key attacking assets in O'Dowda at the same time as Pato was ill/ lost form. January transfers could have been better, Kent disappointing and Diony was not as good as one would have hoped......   

[Davefevs]

15 hours ago, Cowshed said:

I can think of an excellent example of where Diedhiou pressed and a goal followed, however If Bristol City are to press from the front his pressing is a liability. He simply at times is labouring across the pitch. His lack of athleticism creates opportunity for the opposition to penetrate forward.  

It is a case of what skillsets you want in a player. Players above can be instructed to not press at all . Pressing is a particular skill. If Bristol City want to press high it is not an easy way to play. Pressing high requires high fitness levels and athletic ability to reach the ball quickly, mental toughness and disciplined commitment. 

Again I highlight Liverpool. Reid in a humbler fashion could play for Liverpool out of possession in their gegenpress because of his athleticism and fitness levels. Diedhiou clearly could not.

Wouldn’t playing a higher defensive line help?  Condense the pitch, give Diedhiou and others less pitch to press in.  But we’d need quicker defenders?

i saw this the other day.  In school football this would result in the shout “stop bunching”.  It is in fact beautiful to watch, I honestly couldn’t believe it when I saw it!

 

[BobBobSuperBob]

48 minutes ago, Moor2Sea said:

Aside from being ‘consistently inconsistent’ I currently have no idea what our DNA/team character/pattern of play is. That is a massive worry. 

I had an idea pre-Xmas, and it looked good, very good. It seemed to me we stumbled on the winning formula rather than planned it but, whatever, it worked and was pleasing on the eye. Consistent performances, game plan, strong team character. Everyone knew their roles and played their part. 

From January we just seemed to make it up as we went along. 

The management has to take most of the responsibility for that in terms of tactics, motivation and selections. Players can’t duck all responsibility but the bottom line is that it comes back to the management who bought those consistently inconsistent type of players in.

We need to sort things out quick and stop floundering around. This Summer- which should have been just fine-tuning -is going to be massive, absolutely massive. We need to create a team DNA and game plan. We need a minimum of 3 quality Championship ready performers to weld this team together. Yes, we need leaders those who’ll get stuck in when the going gets tough and won’t let us go on any more abysmal losing runs. Those who provide consistent substance rather than occasional froth. 

If I hear MA/LJ utter that cop out ‘one for the future’ phrase once more I’ll go ******* ballistic. That is just what we don’t need at this stage of our ‘evolution’.

Now LJ/MA, don’t finger point at the fans, players, length of grass - raise your own ******** games and bring in some quality - mentally and physically strong and robust players who can actually withstand the rigours of a English 11-a -side game for a full season. 

Worth more than a like 

[Davefevs]

57 minutes ago, Moor2Sea said:

Aside from being ‘consistently inconsistent’ I currently have no idea what our DNA/team character/pattern of play is. That is a massive worry. 

The style has changed to one that is not anything resembling a style.

I had an idea pre-Xmas, and it looked good, very good. It seemed to me we stumbled on the winning formula rather than planned it but, whatever, it worked and was pleasing on the eye. Consistent performances, game plan, strong team character. Everyone knew their roles and played their part. 

It was new, well-drilled in pre-season, a lot of teams gave Little Ole Bristol City little attention, until they realised we were a force.  Clever managers worked us out, and those sides who played a slightly more direct style were able to negate our press by bypassing it.  Then as the season wore on, the fatigue played a part and we looked like 11 players rather than a team in lots of matches.

From January we just seemed to make it up as we went along. 

Yes, the pressure of tweaking to find a solution, the movement away from the principled 442/460 (with Diedhiou/with Paterson) to any old set up, or at least players not playing the same roles as pre-Xmas.  Trying to be too clever, like playing Smith at RB to accommodate Wright at CB, rather than play Magnússon when Baker was out.  Several changes when only one was needed.  That didn’t work, so let’s try Brownhill.  That didn’t, so let’s try Bryan.  That worked...tactical genius, whereas really third time lucky.

The management has to take most of the responsibility for that in terms of tactics, motivation and selections. Players can’t duck all responsibility but the bottom line is that it comes back to the management who bought those consistently inconsistent type of players in.

Plus never giving some players a chance to be consistent, e.g. Eliasson, Woodrow.  They could’ve eased the fatigue too.

We need to sort things out quick and stop floundering around. This Summer- which should have been just fine-tuning -is going to be massive, absolutely massive. We need to create a team DNA and game plan. We need a minimum of 3 quality Championship ready performers to weld this team together. Yes, we need leaders those who’ll get stuck in when the going gets tough and won’t let us go on any more abysmal losing runs. Those who provide consistent substance rather than occasional froth. 

Back in early Feb, with the window closed, I really though thus summer would be fine tuning for another tilt at the play-offs, or big overhaul because we’d reached the Prem.  I got them round the wrong way!

If I hear MA/LJ utter that cop out ‘one for the future’ phrase once more I’ll go ******* ballistic. That is just what we don’t need at this stage of our ‘evolution’.

I don’t mind us bringing in those types of players, but don’t be so gushing about them.

Now LJ/MA, don’t finger point at the fans, players, length of grass - raise your own ******** games and bring in some quality - mentally and physically strong and robust players who can actually withstand the rigours of a English 11-a -side game for a full season. 

Don’t overuse the term “I’ve picked the players I can trust”...because it shows you don’t know who you can trust.

 

[red panda]

1 hour ago, Moor2Sea said:

Aside from being ‘consistently inconsistent’ I currently have no idea what our DNA/team character/pattern of play is. That is a massive worry. 

Hasn't LJ always said he was looking for young, athletic players?  And what he's been trying to do was already set out in his infamous PowerPoint at Barnsley (e.g. pressing game, get forward quickly, etc)

I had an idea pre-Xmas, and it looked good, very good. It seemed to me we stumbled on the winning formula rather than planned it but, whatever, it worked and was pleasing on the eye. Consistent performances, game plan, strong team character. Everyone knew their roles and played their part. 

See above, I don't believe he "stumbled on" this approach

From January we just seemed to make it up as we went along. 

Perhaps he wasn't making it up, perhaps he was trying different ways to get a few wins and restore our confidence.  Managers can never win in such situations.  If they don't change anything, then they are stubborn and blinkered.  If they do change something, then they don't have a plan, are just making it up, don't know what their best team is, etc...

The management has to take most of the responsibility for that in terms of tactics, motivation and selections. Players can’t duck all responsibility but the bottom line is that it comes back to the management who bought those consistently inconsistent type of players in.

Yes, we ignored all of those high quality consistent performers who were available, affordable and begging to come and play for us

We need to sort things out quick and stop floundering around. This Summer- which should have been just fine-tuning -is going to be massive, absolutely massive. We need to create a team DNA and game plan. We need a minimum of 3 quality Championship ready performers to weld this team together. Yes, we need leaders those who’ll get stuck in when the going gets tough and won’t let us go on any more abysmal losing runs. Those who provide consistent substance rather than occasional froth. 

See above, I think we do know what we want to do, but we are struggling to find (a) enough quality players that we can keep up a high energy game for the whole season (b) how to put things right when we have a few setbacks and players get nervous.  There's no easy fix for the latter, and it can have a massive impact on any sports team

If I hear MA/LJ utter that cop out ‘one for the future’ phrase once more I’ll go ******* ballistic. That is just what we don’t need at this stage of our ‘evolution’.

Now LJ/MA, don’t finger point at the fans, players, length of grass - raise your own ******** games and bring in some quality - mentally and physically strong and robust players who can actually withstand the rigours of a English 11-a -side game for a full season. 

Is that you Neil Colin?

 

[Cowshed]

10 hours ago, DaveInSA said:

To elaborate further.

Everything in the universe is connected by energy. There is only energy and matter. Nothing else. 

The collective subconcious negative belief (an example would be "I am not good enough") of all the Bristol City fans is reflected by the performance of the club, both on and off the pitch. Because these beliefs are subconcious, we need to reprogramme the subconcious mind (rather like wiping a PC's hard drive) to reflect positive reinforcing beliefs (an example would be, I can achieve all my dreams"). If we do this and if we channel these beliefs towards the club, we will improve.

This all sounds a bit star wars, but science is now able to measure "energy". Of course, everybody at the club would also need to change their beliefs too.

Read Biology of Belief by Bruce Lipton. He provides the rationale for how the human mind (specifcially the subconcious mind) is capable of incredible things.

Thanks. Yes that is a bit too Star Wars for me. I think I would have to read far more to reply further.

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Wouldn’t playing a higher defensive line help?  Condense the pitch, give Diedhiou and others less pitch to press in.  But we’d need quicker defenders?

i saw this the other day.  In school football this would result in the shout “stop bunching”.  It is in fact beautiful to watch, I honestly couldn’t believe it when I saw it!

 

Higher defensive line .. Yes it could help.

But we’d need quicker defenders? Not always. There are variants where the Keeper sweeps, or the back line drops due to x amount of players committed to press ....

There are numerous means of pressing. Teams that are excellent at pressing successfully have pressing as being a fundamental part of their football and players have to have the skills to fit. Teams recruit players, develop players who can play and press. Its not do one week, not the next fannying around e.g. Bristol City .

Here I mention Klopp again, his teams are masterful at pressing and it stems from his balls out commitment to his football beliefs, the players he wants and gets fit his belief in his football. 

That clip is Rinus Michels full team counter press. Its a mad watch but at its core it depended on the athleticism and fanatical workrate of its players, and in particular Neeskens. There were no passengers, no players being carried or having their running done for them. Same point as above. For the national team and Ajax it was a fundamental part of the football.

[Trueredsupporter]

On ‎25‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 09:33, Phileas Fogg said:

I'm a bit confused now, because I can't tell if you're missing the point on purpose or not.

I thought I'd been quite clear - he's obeying instructions. He's clearly in Johnson's 11 so obviously then it's not a requirement for every single player to be as tenacious as Reid because Diedhiou isn't. 

If he's obeying what he's asked to do - that's reliable. Pretty simple really.

I am not missing the point. I am saying that he is instructed to play as he is because he simply cannot reliably do what Reid can. the way City played had to be altered for him players run past Diedhiou to press because he cant or is unwilling to get there as quickly. I think its a bit of both its not his game and it is what it is the really energetic high pressing with Diedhiou in the side wont be happening which is why I replied in the first place. Its interesting that others get coated off as unreliable but a player who the team was changed for doesn't.

[Phileas Fogg]

13 minutes ago, Trueredsupporte said:

I am not missing the point. I am saying that he is instructed to play as he is because he simply cannot reliably do what Reid can. the way City played had to be altered for him players run past Diedhiou to press because he cant or is unwilling to get there as quickly. I think its a bit of both its not his game and it is what it is the really energetic high pressing with Diedhiou in the side wont be happening which is why I replied in the first place. Its interesting that others get coated off as unreliable but a player who the team was changed for doesn't.

Diedhiou is in Johnson’s first 11, that’s pretty clear. Stands to reason that he plays a role in the archetypal way Johnson wants us playing.

I still don’t really understand why you are insinuating he’s ‘unreliable’, it’s not his fault that he’s different to Reid and that the team has to adapt if he plays. Surely your criticism should be towards Johnson as he’s the one picking him and thus impacting how we play. 

[Nogbad the Bad]

On 24/05/2018 at 12:56, Antman said:

I think Baker gets a bad press. he isn't as 'mad dog' as some would have us believe and to me looks a very solid CB at this level.

It's not just his mad dog moments, which undoubtedly do occur, it's also his repetitive injuries over the course of his career where he has a tendency to be unavailable for 10 -15 matches every season.

That's not solid (or dependable) to me, solid is someone like Flint who, apart from his uncharacteristic sending off this season, and the early season uncertainties regarding his future at the club, has barely missed a game in 4 seasons.

There's no doubt in my mind which one City should be pulling out all the stops to keep at AG if we want a dependable and consistent Championship class CB with the character to match.

 

[Cowshed]

On ‎26‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 12:09, Phileas Fogg said:

Diedhiou is in Johnson’s first 11, that’s pretty clear. Stands to reason that he plays a role in the archetypal way Johnson wants us playing.

I still don’t really understand why you are insinuating he’s ‘unreliable’, it’s not his fault that he’s different to Reid and that the team has to adapt if he plays. Surely your criticism should be towards Johnson as he’s the one picking him and thus impacting how we play. 

From what I have viewed of Diedhiou is that Bristol City cannot press with this player in the team efficiently. Versus Burton the player was uninterested in working without the ball thus Reid had to press from midfield when Deidhiou was in a superior position to do so, and did not. That and it was not the first time it occurred does not make sense. It costs the team.

What is the archetypal way Lee Johnson wants Bristol City playing? To improve the above or abandon it totally that question should be answered. 

[Chivs]

On 24/05/2018 at 14:31, Cowshed said:

A point I made about a exemplary pressing team in Liverpool is that they have multiple athletes in the squad to support their high octane pressing and football. 

Bristol City could have carried on with their trajectory of high lines, fast paced football and aggressive pressing and ONE injury to Reid would basically have ended it.  

Mr Johnson chose to not pursue that path. Its unclear what path he is pursuing at this point. Liverpool are another example of single minded approach. Klopp has plan A and plan A,Yes Mr Klopp is brilliant, he has large resources but the theme of Plan A is the same as Warnock - Single minded.

Lee Johnson has several minds on different teams. Its an inconsistent approach that creates its unreliability.

 

When Warnock is sacked round about Christmas, will you say "Yes, but he is single minded"?

[Cowshed]

2 minutes ago, Chivs said:

When Warnock is sacked round about Christmas, will you say "Yes, but he is single minded"?

Statistically its pretty likely Mr Warnock will be sacked in the future. I have my doubts that he will move drastically away from the football style witnessed at Cardiff this season. Do you think he will change Cardiff's approach significantly next season?

The point made was about consistency of approach. Did you agree, or disagree about the point being made in regards to recruitment x playing style? 

From another thread...Do you still think the FA (Trevor Brooking etc) know nothing about football and can provide proof? Still waiting on that one.

[Chivs]

On 27/05/2018 at 18:29, Cowshed said:

Statistically its pretty likely Mr Warnock will be sacked in the future. I have my doubts that he will move drastically away from the football style witnessed at Cardiff this season. Do you think he will change Cardiff's approach significantly next season?

The point made was about consistency of approach. Did you agree, or disagree about the point being made in regards to recruitment x playing style? 

From another thread...Do you still think the FA (Trevor Brooking etc) know nothing about football and can provide proof? Still waiting on that one.

I don't think Warnock will change Cardiff's approach very much and he will be sacked round about Christmas. Do you agree?

Or are you saying Warnock has a persistent style of play that will take the Premiership by storm next year?

I exaggerated the comment on the FA.  I can see from their website that they do know how to spell "football".  Plus...

1. They once employed Howard Wilkinson.  They might still do so...
2. They have no policy for a consistent "England" playing style.  This seems to be one of your favourite themes to beat up Mr Johnson
3. They alternate between a good foreigner and then a second rate England coach for the manager's job.  No consistency...
4. They once employed Trevor Brooking.  They might still do so...
5. The Royal Navy Football Association has a full vote on the FA Council.  That's the world-renowned football experts "the Royal Navy".  Blazers for the boys, isn't it?
6. Gary Cahill's first touch.  Actually, any England player's first touch...
7. They have watched over the sell-off of numerous school playing fields.  However, we have Brooking with a youth strategy so no panic.
8. US 1994, SA 2010, Brazil 2014
9. The lack of any England manager to win the Premiership since, well, was it Wilkinson?

By the way, given how you speak, and your knowledge of football, I assume you work for, or with, the FA.  Am I right?

[Cowshed]

11 hours ago, Chivs said:

I don't think Warnock will change Cardiff's approach very much and he will be sacked round about Christmas. Do you agree?

Or are you saying Warnock has a persistent style of play that will take the Premiership by storm next year?

I exaggerated the comment on the FA.  I can see from their website that they do know how to spell "football".  Plus...

1. They once employed Howard Wilkinson.  They might still do so...
2. They have no policy for a consistent "England" playing style.  This seems to be one of your favourite themes to beat up Mr Johnson
3. They alternate between a good foreigner and then a second rate England coach for the manager's job.  No consistency...
4. They once employed Trevor Brooking.  They might still do so...
5. The Royal Navy Football Association has a full vote on the FA Council.  That's the world-renowned football experts "the Royal Navy".  Blazers for the boys, isn't it?
6. Gary Cahill's first touch.  Actually, any England player's first touch...
7. They have watched over the sell-off of numerous school playing fields.  However, we have Brooking with a youth strategy so no panic.
8. US 1994, SA 2010, Brazil 2014
9. The lack of any England manager to win the Premiership since, well, was it Wilkinson?

By the way, given how you speak, and your knowledge of football, I assume you work for, or with, the FA.  Am I right?

I doubt Neil Warnock will be taking the Premiership by storm either.

An interesting number 1-9. It is not however proof of the FA knowing nothing about football because the FA is thousands of people led by Donkies sometimes, sometimes not ...

I will answer a couple ... All.

1/Howard Wilkinson won the First division with Leeds. Was technical director for the FA. People can criticise his blue print for football, I think it damaged football but he clearly knows a lot about football in a time that was dominated by insular thinking and retrogressive ideas. Thinking and ideas I can read on this forum, and hear in the ground, in kids football, everywhere ... Its going to take a very long time to reverse. 

2/The FA do have a consistent approach called the future game. It is far from perfect Adie Boothroyd being in charge of the U21's (20's now?) is part of that imperfection. Englands U teams Adie's aside now win World and Euro Championships ... Things are changing.

3/I agree. Mr Southgate clearly is a modern coach with ideas that fit in with the future game. Mr Southgate clearly knows and express a lot about football ... His views on academies and child welfare for instance go beyond just tactical, its in depth knowledge that could improve football beyond its first XI's

4/ Trevor Brooking. His skills programme if he can ever get it implemented (not his fault) would benefit football from grass roots up. Mr Brooking clearly knows a lot about football, and really could play it.

5/ There is nothing wrong with the Services having a vote on a FA body. What is wrong is that elements of football are over represented and under leading to self interest. The biggest offenders are the EPL who exercise control for that corporate self interest. 

6/Opinion. Players at Bristol City can have the touch of trampoline. More Trevor Brooking skills programmes less trampolines can lead to improvement ..

7/ That is the governments role. The FA do increase clearly facilities nationwide, could do more but are prevented by self interest see point 5.  

8/ There are books on that. 

9/ Foreign owned clubs, with foreign players will have foreign Managers ... The EPL is geo political. 

No I do not work for the FA. Yes I work with the FA. Anybody in coaching at any level will and should.