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Pep and Yaya...


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56 minutes ago, Bryans Left Peg said:

If your name is Adam you are 6x more likely to be offered an interview than if your name Muslim, foreign or exotic sounding.

They should take that, along with centuries of racial injustice and social neglect, on the chin because you didn't get one job opportunity?

 

Apologies to all if it sounds like I'm preaching.

I can quite believe that this is true,and in many or most circumstances I would imagine being white has probably been advantageous. However in the instance I mentioned I strongly suspect if the candidate had an ethnic sounding name,when all the applications went into the lucky dip,theirs would have been somewhat nearer the top.

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2 hours ago, Bryans Left Peg said:

Granted, but where did this class divide come from? It's not coincidence or luck, there's a direct relation surely?

Also, there's no chance that blacks are responsible for 45% of crimes and whites just 22%. 

Agreed, I'll shut up now!!

A valiant effort. But facts and statistics are never enough to overturn firmly held views and beliefs. Indeed, providing "evidence" can often only entrench these views and beliefs. We see this on here with football, let alone difficult issues like race and discrimination.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Badger08 said:

No.

Of course it exists, however, I'm fed-up with race being thrown around for every decision that goes against whoever it is.  On the flip side, I'm also fed up with "white privilege" being thrown around for achievements. 

What I'm saying is, it seems like the world as a society like to blame everyone except themselves. Its getting a bit tiring.  I'm not just talking about race..... 

You have overcome some challenges in life and been successful, which is a credit to you.

Other people also face great challenges, but not the same ones as you. You - or I - have no idea what many of those challenges are like, what it is like to be black or non-majority growing up in this country and then looking for work etc. 

There is a lot of coverage of these issues, almost unrelenting, and like you, as a white/majority person, I too sometimes get tired of being hammered with this stuff. But I am of the opinion that until we - the white majority - are prepared or ready to see ourselves as we really are, and as we really have been, this will never go away or be any different. It will always follow us.

If the biggest pisser in your life today is that everyone else seems to be blaming other people for their problems in life, then you are doing ok. I hope that it is.

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2 hours ago, Bryans Left Peg said:

If your name is Adam you are 6x more likely to be offered an interview than if your name Muslim, foreign or exotic sounding.

They should take that, along with centuries of racial injustice and social neglect, on the chin because you didn't get one job opportunity?

Apologies to all if it sounds like I'm preaching.

In very recent times, I worked for a small company in Paris who invited applications for the post of bilingual, French/English, secretary.

Our MD, semi-retired at the time, was entrusted with the task of sifting through the numerous responses in order to provide a shortlist for interview, whilst I had been tasked with holding the interviews themselves.

The above-mentioned MD was warm and softly-spoken, charming, kind, and, in many ways, just a perfect gentleman: he was also public school educated and a decorated WWII veteran.

I had noticed the large number of applications arriving in the post, so you can imagine my surprise when I was provided with a shortlist of just 5 or 6 candidates. 

It was quite common at the time for applicants to attach a photograph to their c.v., but can you imagine my horror when I saw the MD's bin overflowing with c.v. containing foreign names, e.g. Ngombo Mgombo or Abdullah Mohammed, or even with French/British sounding names, but accompanied by a photograph showing their dark skin colour.

When questioned, the MD stated quite calmly that, under no circumstances, did he want 'foreigners', i.e. black or Maghrebian people working for his company as they were inferior and less intelligent; they wouldn't be accepted in 'the market' and, not that their brains were physically smaller, just that they were incapable of retaining sufficient information to undertake the role required.

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5 hours ago, Badger08 said:

Being white didn't help me applying for jobs.  Being white didn't help me graft and build a career.  Being white didn't help me work 13 hours days. 

And being white certainly didn't make me a Director of a £30 million business!  (My boss is black)

 

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Yaya Toure was instrumental to Man City getting where they are now. He never quite received the level of acclaim for his performances in the Premier League that Keane, Gerrard or Lampard did but I'd say he was easily their equal and better than a couple of them and, that season Man City first won the title, there were at least four of five games he won virtually single-handedly. He's got to be a serious contender for anyone's Best Premier League XI of the last decade or two.

 

But I also think he held City back at times too off the pitch. Far too often, when things went wrong and performances weren't going right, he'd send his agent off - presuming his agent did it with his authority -0 to the papers to whine on his behalf and threaten to quit. The birthday cake was one such farce but was far from alone. When Pep started, he tried to have a stand-off with Pep and got frozen out the squad until his agent apologised.

 

Without question Pep does not like mavericks and has got no time for anyone who does not fit into the team ethic. And no doubt various players dislike him as I am sure he has exacting standards and he is far too successful for me to believe he is not single-minded and ruthless when he needs to be. I don't doubt for a second Pep did not consider Toure to be right for the ethic and approach he wanted at the club. And I think Man City have been a lot better for that. But that should not undermine what a spectacular talent Yaya Toure was in his prime. 

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7 hours ago, Badger08 said:

 

And being white certainly didn't make me a Director of a £30 million business!  (My boss is black)

 

 

Oh dear, we have a dick waver. Is there anything worse than people like this?:facepalm:

Go on mate, tell us all how much you get paid as well!

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7 hours ago, Badger08 said:

Utter rubbish.  I come from a very working-class family so I would say that I've come from a very humble upbringing. 

Being white didn't help me gain my SATS.  Being white didn't help me study or gain my GCSE'S. Being white didn't help me work my arse off doing rubbish jobs, when I wasn't studying, to help fund college.  My whiteness didn't sit my a-levels. 

Being white didn't help me applying for jobs.  Being white didn't help me graft and build a career.  Being white didn't help me work 13 hours days. 

And being white certainly didn't make me a Director of a £30 million business!  (My boss is black)

 

Please don't take my hard work and achievement away from me because I'm a white male, because I'm not having it.  I've worked hard, cried, and sweat blood to get to where I am because of my start in life, so please don't patronise me that this has happened because I'm white. 

It's not because you're black, white, Asian, Green, pink, or ******* female... I will tell you why it's not happened, or you haven't had the opportunity, its because you haven't worked hard enough or you have given up.  

Back to the story on Pep. Pep was the one who gave Yaya a year extension on his contract! Pulling the race card because your game has dropped or because you simply aren't good enough is pathetic. 

Replace all the words 'white' with 'black' and imagine a black person said it. Think how ridiculous that sounds and then ask yourself if you are missing the point?

Unfortunately, the reality of the situation is that we still don't live in a very equal world and whilst massive strides have been taken forward in terms of equality (and I mean all equality; women, ethnic minorities etc) you are still less likely to have the same opportunities/salary if you fall into one of those groups. I mean, I thought that was obvious, but I guess all the publicly available statistics (use Google) are wrong and you think all those people that are still passionately campaigning for equality are just having a laugh?

What bugs me about comments like yours is not necessarily the blind ignorance, but actually the arrogance to think that just becasue things have gone OK for you that EVERYONE else must have been gifted the same opportunities as you. You even used the classic 'My friend/boss is black' line as if your life is a blueprint for the whole of humanity.  Has it never crossed your mind that your boss is an outlier in a society where most of the top jobs are dominated by white males?! !

 

 

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2 hours ago, Jack Dawe said:

A valiant effort. But facts and statistics are never enough to overturn firmly held views and beliefs. Indeed, providing "evidence" can often only entrench these views and beliefs. We see this on here with football, let alone difficult issues like race and discrimination.

 

 

Seeing as this is aimed at me, I dont believe any of those point to racism. Now, I've said my bit. Let's leave it.

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Quote

 

To be honest im fed up hearing the word racist all together, there was a time it came across as a very serious accusation but feel it has lost its meaning, especially as it is used as a fall back position with anyone who disagrees with anything you might utter or an issue ever so controversial. Racist is like a figure of speech these days, like "Bollocks".

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5 minutes ago, RUSSEL85 said:

To be honest im fed up hearing the word racist all together, there was a time it came across as a very serious accusation but feel it has lost its meaning, especially as it is used as a fall back position with anyone who disagrees with anything you might utter or an issue ever so controversial. Racist is like a figure of speech these days, like "Bollocks".

Then what do we call racists to distinguish them from good people? We need a new word. Come on Russell, you've got this.

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1 minute ago, Collis1 said:

Then what do we call racists to distinguish them from good people? We need a new word. Come on Russell, you've got this.

Im not talking about genuine racists where the word is correct. Im talking about discussing issues which may arise regarding religion (which isn't racism anyway), immigration, crime etc and the word is thrown about when views differ, that's my point. Im sorry I cant pluck out a new word for you but looking at your previous comments re "dick waving" you seem to be looking for an argument so I wont bite. Have a nice evening.

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7 minutes ago, RUSSEL85 said:

Im not talking about genuine racists where the word is correct. Im talking about discussing issues which may arise regarding religion (which isn't racism anyway), immigration, crime etc and the word is thrown about when views differ, that's my point. Im sorry I cant pluck out a new word for you but looking at your previous comments re "dick waving" you seem to be looking for an argument so I wont bite. Have a nice evening.

Not picking a fight. Just highlighting the absurdity of some of the posts on here.

In regards to your quoted post. Its quite simple. Its fine to talk about any of those things. I.e Having a view about controlling immigration is perfectly reasonable. But if you said "I want to stop immigration because i dont like XXXX people (fill in the blank)." Then that would be racist and i'd expect someone to call you on it! Hope that clears things up.

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1 minute ago, Collis1 said:

Not picking a fight. Just highlighting the absurdity of some of the posts on here.

In regards to your quoted post. Its quite simple. Its fine to talk about any of those things. I.e Having a view about controlling immigration is perfectly reasonable. But if you said "I want to stop immigration because i dont like XXXX (fill in the blank)." Then that would be racist and i'd expect someone to call you on it! Hope that clears things up.

Oh right, sorry if I got the wrong end of the stick there. In regards to your last paragraph, yes I agree entirely. 

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1 hour ago, Collis1 said:

Oh dear, we have a dick waver. Is there anything worse than people like this?:facepalm:

Go on mate, tell us all how much you get paid as well!

You have made some pretty crap comments on other threads, but I think this is your best (worst) yet!

Arsehole!

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11 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

You have made some pretty crap comments on other threads, but I think this is your best (worst) yet!

Arsehole!

Hi Phil in France,its wonderful to hear from you. I am looking forward to your clear and concise response to my above post. Warm regards.

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49 minutes ago, Badger08 said:

Sorry, really didn't mean it to offend you. It certainly wasn't "dick waving", but just a point out what I've achieved. Im actually proud of it. The reason I mentioned that my boss was black, seemed relevant because he was given the opportunity,which was ironic giving the co text of the other posts.

And for the record, I'm on £32,000 plus comms and a car. Hardly something to shout or wave my dick at. 

But you're so to the left, the first mention of the word black and you have to have an issue. 

Maybe you can tell us a story about your travels and how you've saved a turtle by letting it suckle from your Jeremy Corbyn loving tit. 

Just because you've travelled to a few countries, you automatically think you have this wider, and correct view of the world. 

In fairness, it sounded like blatant millennial dick waving to me, but I take your point and maybe i jumped the gun on that point.

Anyway, you have completely ignored my explanation as to why I think you are so wrong. It sort of suggests to me that you know what I was saying is true. It maybe the case that you don't have any sympathy for minorities, or that  you have worked hard your whole life so why should you care about anyone else? That is a view shared by many. But the simple fact is that if you are born a ethnic minority in this country your life chances are diminished in comparison to white males. That maybe an ugly truth to some people and anyone has the right not to care - I'd have more respect for people if they just admitted it! But to say opportunities in this world are an even playing field for all races is absolute bonkers!

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Badger08 said:

Have you read my other posts? I'm not saying that white privilege doesn't exist in its entirety, but in the case of Yaya, you can't just throw the race card about. Like I've said, I understand that minority's face hurdles, but so does everyone in all sorts of different forms. 

The point I was trying to make, was that calling Pep a racist is really unfair just because something didn't go his way. You can't just throw that about.  Yaya has a history of throwing his toys out of the pram, if you remember the birthday cake incident. 

Just to clarify in relation to the bold text, in regards to the Pep/Toure case I actually think there's not a lot in it other than Yaya taking rejection poorly. I don't think for a second Pep is racist. It was originally your post that I responded too which I guess started the white privilege argument off and we've had that discussion and explained our points in further detail now.

I have always tried to be respectful and understanding to all opinions in life and everyone has the right to their view, in fact diversity in viewpoints should be encouraged.

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I recommend that many of you watch the infamous "Wheel of Fortune" episode of South Park. On top of being really ******* funny, the takeaway from that episode is that unless you are in a minority, you have ZERO idea what it's like to feel prejudice, or whether your opportunities (or privilege, which is a word I ******* hate with a passion) have been limited/heightened by your experience.

So much of life is up to chance that regardless of all the work you've put in means next to nothing. Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell touches on this in various places, with an overall message of "you're a product of opportunity first, and hard work second". You might have worked hard to get through school and into uni while living on a council estate, but who is to say you would've had the opportunity to get into your school of choice if you were black, or whether your upbringing would be different if you were of a certain minority. The important takeaway, again, is that you don't know how different your life would be.

Anyway, going back to Yaya Toure, I'd be very interested in where things go from here, and whether another club/manager is willing to take a punt on Yaya Toure after this outburst. If Yaya and his agent are going to attack a world-class manager like Pep Guardiola what would he do against some fat yank in a tracksuit in MLS? Would it be worth the almost-guaranteed instability?

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