ASTON VILLA The taxman requests

[E.G.Red]

First Crystal Palace and now Villa .https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2018/06/05/aston-villa-plunged-financial-crisis-42m-tax-bill-leads-threat/

 

[Bar BS3]

That looks like massive over exaggeration to a slightly late payment, to me!

[Robbored]

3 minutes ago, E.G.Red said:

First Crystal Palace and now Villa .https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2018/06/05/aston-villa-plunged-financial-crisis-42m-tax-bill-leads-threat/

 

AV gambling on to getting back to the riches of the PL and failing..........and yet some of our own fans critise SL for not doing the same.......

[Bryans Left Peg]

Reading the thread on Villa Talk, they firmly believe they're in the shit and could be wound up.

[slartibartfast]

7 minutes ago, Bryans Left Peg said:

Reading the thread on Villa Talk, they firmly believe they're in the shit and could be wound up.

Unlike footy fans to go into meltdown and fear the worst !

[Maesknoll Red]

1 minute ago, slartibartfast said:

Unlike footy fans to go into meltdown and fear the worst !

All apart from the rose tinted spec wearing, blue few.......  

[Ska Junkie]

Made me smile anyway! 

[Bristol Rob]

Maybe we have dodged a heap of agg if the JK add on was removed with the Baker signing.

Don't wish for Villa to struggle and have no ill will towards their fans, but if John Terry was on 100k a week then maybe they should have seen this coming.

[pillred]

2 hours ago, Robbored said:

AV gambling on to getting back to the riches of the PL and failing..........and yet some of our own fans critise SL for not doing the same.......

just because they failed how do you know that we would not be more successful, very few teams make the prem without some sort of gamble on players.

[RumRed]

2 hours ago, Robbored said:

AV gambling on to getting back to the riches of the PL and failing..........and yet some of our own fans critise SL for not doing the same.......

We've never been in the PL?  As you're such a stickler for the full, and current, names for each division I'd have thought you'd know that.

#SBLC

[BobBobSuperBob]

From the well respected Matt Scott who specialises in Clubs Finances etc

Looks like real problems

Suggestions that Wyness was getting too cosy with potential buyers / investors , providing too much information regarding how much they could buy the Club for , or trying to get Xia to sell cheaper than he wants

 

[CyderInACan]

8 hours ago, Bristol Rob said:

if John Terry was on 100k a week then maybe they should have seen this coming.

Lots of money no doubt but only the same as we paid for Diédhiou and then his wages then on top of that. Problems must be systemic and deep rooted for them to be in the brown stuff so quickly, echoes of Sunderland maybe? And plenty before them Leeds, Forest etc 

how much and for how long are the new parachute payments  nowadays? There seems to be a lot of noise about them being unfair but it certainly doesn’t seem to help everyone that much! 

[Monkeh]

4 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

Lots of money no doubt but only the same as we paid for Diédhiou and then his wages then on top of that. Problems must be systemic and deep rooted for them to be in the brown stuff so quickly, echoes of Sunderland maybe? And plenty before them Leeds, Forest etc 

how much and for how long are the new parachute payments  nowadays? There seems to be a lot of noise about them being unfair but it certainly doesn’t seem to help everyone that much! 

3 season , 39 million for 2 then 15 for the 3rd I think, villa's has ran out, they gambled and failed and may well be another portsmouth because of it,

This is why Lansdown didn't push the boat out in Jan and is trying to get us sustainable

[CyderInACan]

7 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

3 season , 39 million for 2 then 15 for the 3rd I think, villa's has ran out, they gambled and failed and may well be another portsmouth because of it,

This is why Lansdown didn't push the boat out in Jan and is trying to get us sustainable

They’ve spunked the best part of £100 million in a season!? Bloody hell. Steve Bruce might be getting the chance to attend more weddings next season then. 

[Robbored]

7 hours ago, pillred said:

just because they failed how do you know that we would not be more successful, very few teams make the prem without some sort of gamble on players.

SL isn't prepared to risk vast amounts of money on buying promotion to the PL. 

As we all know he wants to get there by creating a sustainable and stable club with a home grown squad of several academy and development squad graduates alongside more experienced players. That's why he employed LJ - a manager who buys into his philosophy unlike previous managers who did not.

[Beni71]

I honestly think the premiership is a curse for anyone bar 6 or 7 clubs. The ability to compete in the top league is nigh on impossible (Leicester being the exception).

Whilst I have sympathy for Villa fans as it appears they will have a tough ride when the fire sell kicks off, it also shows that the win or bust approach adopted by a number of clubs (hull, Sunderland, Birmingham, Wednesday) as they look to bounce back, can put a club back years.

It does make me question what is the point of the premiership. Without doubt Man City/Liverpool play some exhilarating football but on the flip side some of the turgid football played by Stoke/Swansea/Southampton etc as they look to ensure they don’t lose/concede a goal. Not sure I would want city to end up being one of those clubs (we obviously need to get their first). 

I can see Swansea going the same way as Sunderland. 

[BigTone]

Sell Grealish and problem solved

[RedM]

6 minutes ago, Robbored said:

SL isn't prepared to risk vast amounts of money on buying promotion to the PL. 

As we all know he wants to get there by creating a sustainable and stable club with a home grown squad of several academy and development squad graduates alongside more experienced players. That's why he employed LJ - a manager who buys into his philosophy unlike previous managers who did not.

Totally understand the theory and caution but so few clubs manage to achieve it this way. SL realised he had to buy his way into the Premieship with his rugby team but almost stubborn to the point of wanting to prove a point with the football team.

I fully understand wanting to be sustainable but Bournemouth, who are often held up as an example for us to follow, didn’t achieve without substantial financial investment I don’t think.

Clearly clubs like Villa, Sunderland etc are basket case clubs, but I think we are too cautious, we are too far the other way. It was staggering how we failed to attract or recruit anything half decent in January, we wasted the best opportunity we will probably have in years as we held ourselves back. If we couldn’t turn heads then we never will and that is pretty gutting and spineless if I’m honest.

 

[ScottishRed]

15 minutes ago, Robbored said:

SL isn't prepared to risk vast amounts of money on buying promotion to the PL. 

As we all know he wants to get there by creating a sustainable and stable club with a home grown squad of several academy and development squad graduates alongside more experienced players. That's why he employed LJ - a manager who buys into his philosophy unlike previous managers who did not.

And that is exactly why we will never get promotion.

Its is nothing more than fantasy to suggest that model will be successful.

The very clear way to a self sustained club is get promotion and then be HUGELY careful with the proceeds.

Witness Burnley.

Accept , and that includes us too, that you may be a yo-yo club for a few seasons, but with good management and astute recruitment you can become an established PL team.

Getting there on the dream of 11 local lads from the Academy is just that - a dream.

[Paul Cheesey]

Absolutely baffles me how people complain about our transfer policy and why we aren't trying to buy our way out of this division. Villa have tried to do it with millions of pounds of parachute payments and are almost bankrupt. Derby and Norwich are also under financial pressure.

I am personally very happy with the current path we are on, sustainable financial stability and entertaining football in a very competitive league.

[RedM]

7 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

And that is exactly why we will never get promotion.

Its is nothing more than fantasy to suggest that model will be successful.

The very clear way to a self sustained club is get promotion and then be HUGELY careful with the proceeds.

Witness Burnley.

Accept , and that includes us too, that you may be a yo-yo club for a few seasons, but with good management and astute recruitment you can become an established PL team.

Getting there on the dream of 11 local lads from the Academy is just that - a dream.

Absolutely agree. We can’t sit here and cross our fingers and hope we just stumble on a bunch of players to move us forward. Fans have been very patient but now paying more for probably less. SL is expecting Lee to produce better with less if the players, who have also grown impatient, look like they are leaving. 

Going back to Villa, Terry no longer believed in them and could probably see the mess they were in, yes partly caused financially by him. He has no affinity with the club and could follow his mate to Derby and no doubt add to their financial worries.

It will be interesting to see what our academy products do, and other players with value.  They do have a emotional tie to the club I would hope, but if they can’t see they will make progress here, as we aren’t competing how we should be, they will be off to further their own careers. I’m sure if they thought they could do it here they would stay. 

[RedM]

13 minutes ago, Paul Cheesy said:

Absolutely baffles me how people complain about our transfer policy and why we aren't trying to buy our way out of this division. Villa have tried to do it with millions of pounds of parachute payments and are almost bankrupt. Derby and Norwich are also under financial pressure.

I am personally very happy with the current path we are on, sustainable financial stability and entertaining football in a very competitive league.

I’m not saying go mad, we won’t ever be that type of club. We have/had the money but spent it so poorly in January, I would be amazed if any other club got such little back from a similar investment ( unless through injury). 

[Robbored]

17 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

And that is exactly why we will never get promotion.

Its is nothing more than fantasy to suggest that model will be successful.

The very clear way to a self sustained club is get promotion and then be HUGELY careful with the proceeds.

Witness Burnley.

Accept , and that includes us too, that you may be a yo-yo club for a few seasons, but with good management and astute recruitment you can become an established PL team.

Getting there on the dream of 11 local lads from the Academy is just that - a dream.

Nobody, not even SL expects to reach the PL with "11 local lads" ............

Did Burnley "buy" their way to the PL? I remember some astute signings and smart fiscal management once they got there. No doubt at all that the model employed by them could well be applied to City.

[Monkeh]

24 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

And that is exactly why we will never get promotion.

Its is nothing more than fantasy to suggest that model will be successful.

The very clear way to a self sustained club is get promotion and then be HUGELY careful with the proceeds.

Witness Burnley.

Accept , and that includes us too, that you may be a yo-yo club for a few seasons, but with good management and astute recruitment you can become an established PL team.

Getting there on the dream of 11 local lads from the Academy is just that - a dream.

except we aren't doing that are we, we are signing players but we are trying to live with in our means and meet our ffp requirements,

we've spent alot of money on transfers recently, 5.3 million on a striker is just one example, what we are doing is the right model buy young develop and sell on for good money, that money is reinvested to buy better young players sell for more money and reinvest,

its about gradual improvement, and despite all our moans that has been happening, our goals scored goals coincided and points total have all got better season on season since we've been promoted,

next seasons aim has to be 70 points minimum which may be enough to get us in the play-offs and would see another improvement  

[Beni71]

43 minutes ago, RedM said:

Totally understand the theory and caution but so few clubs manage to achieve it this way. SL realised he had to buy his way into the Premieship with his rugby team but almost stubborn to the point of wanting to prove a point with the football team.

I fully understand wanting to be sustainable but Bournemouth, who are often held up as an example for us to follow, didn’t achieve without substantial financial investment I don’t think.

Clearly clubs like Villa, Sunderland etc are basket case clubs, but I think we are too cautious, we are too far the other way. It was staggering how we failed to attract or recruit anything half decent in January, we wasted the best opportunity we will probably have in years as we held ourselves back. If we couldn’t turn heads then we never will and that is pretty gutting and spineless if I’m honest.

 

Villa and Sunderland are basket cases now. Bad management and bad investments have led to that. You could argue that we’ve had that on a much smaller scale (Engvall, Magnússon, Moore).

The challenge is with all player recruitment is that there is quite a bit of guess work and also there is no comparison to rugby and football investment so the gamble when it comes to rugby is less. 

 I also think that our previous recruitment exploits have meant that SL is more cautious, he knows it doesn’t guarantee you anything. Going back to where this conversation started and Aston Villa. They did gamble, they bought in Grabban and have an established and successful manager in Bruce and it didn’t work and are in the press for the wrong reasons.

SL is a business man, highly successful and as mentioned has been burnt by failed recruitment from the GJ years. I agree we are cautious but I do trust SL judgment on this approach. If it was my money I wouldn’t take the gamble, but then I’m not a gambler.

 

[ZiderEyed]

So glad we weren't spending 100k a week on centre halves last season.

There has to be a middle ground though? Good quality Championship talent mixed with youth, rather than journeymen or Scandinavians?

[Red Grovesy]

1 hour ago, Paul Cheesy said:

I am personally very happy with the current path we are on, sustainable financial stability and entertaining football in a very competitive league.

Can't disagree with sustainable financial stability but................. 

How far back is "the current path" measured though? From Jan 18 to May 18 I don't think many would say it was entertaining football.

[RedRock]

I think the rugby experience proves the point in a roundabout way.

Most of us remotely familiar with Premiership rugby knew Bristol were totally ‘unfit for purpose’ the last time they were promoted. It took an embarrassment of a season for the penny to drop at Ashton Gate though. SL then embarked on employing a top class experienced coach and seems now to be investing in Premiership standard players so we can compete at the highest level.

What worries me is that we are not learning from the rugby experience.

We haven’t a top class coach, rather a ‘one for the future’, we have relatively inexperienced assistant coaches and a CEO who seems to think he has a director of football type role but lacks experience for it. 

I buy in to the sustainable model but to deliver that it’s the off-the-field set up that is the critical part of the strategy. The January transfer debacle just showed to me that we’re light years from having built the foundations to deliver a truly successful sustainable model based around our claimed Premier League aspiration.

To finish eleventh from where we were in December, overtaken by Clubs with far less resources - taking into account a transfer window opportunity existed when the Club was more attractive to potential players than it’s ever been plus not being short of a few bob to spend - was poor, very poor. 

[Monkeh]

4 minutes ago, Red Grovesy said:

Can't disagree with sustainable financial stability but................. 

How far back is "the current path" measured though? From Jan 18 to May 18 I don't think many would say it was entertaining football.

no it wasn't it looked like performances from players that were physically and mentally tired, with a crowd ready to jump down their throat with one mis placed pass,

 

Anyway back to Villa, looks like they are up for sale

[Monkeh]

1 minute ago, Moor2Sea said:

I think the rugby experience proves the point in a roundabout way.

Most of us remotely familiar with Premiership rugby knew Bristol were totally ‘unfit for purpose’ the last time they were promoted. It took an embarrassment of a season for the penny to drop at Ashton Gate though. SL then embarked on employing a top class experienced coach and seems now to be investing in Premiership standard players so we can compete at the highest level.

What worries me is that we are not learning from the rugby experience.

We haven’t a top class coach, rather a ‘one for the future’, we have relatively inexperienced assistant coaches and a CEO who seems to think he has a director of football type role but lacks experience for it. 

I buy in to the sustainable mode but to deliver that it’s the off-the-field set up that is the critical part of the strategy. The January transfer debacle just showed to me that we’re light years from having built the foundations to deliver a truly successful sustainable model based around our claimed Premier League aspiration.

To finish eleventh from where we were in December, overtaken by Clubs with far less resources - taking into account a transfer window opportunity existed when the Club was more attractive to potential players than it’s ever been plus not being short of a few bob to spend - was poor, very poor. 

Millwall were top in December and ended up getting relegated a few years ago, Sheffield United and Leeds also fell away, it wasn't just us falling like stones