Olé Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 12 minutes ago, Alessandro said: Isn’t the £5m their monthly tax bill? I was wondering that too. Too small to be annual. Is there an accountant reading? Last recorded wage bill was £61m in 2016/17 though is said to have reduced a little since. Assume Villa's PAYE & NIC contributions for those wages are very roughly 50% - £25-30m? Is that a fair assumption? If so, perhaps the £5m is the combined last 2-3 months unpaid? Does not paying your players PAYE/NIC give the players any grounds to rescind contracts? Final question: do clubs pay corporation tax, or can they use their losses to show no profit? I would have thought player costs would be impossible to use because they're capitalised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
123red1 Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 18 minutes ago, Alessandro said: Isn’t the £5m their monthly tax bill? They’ll scrape by this month but what about next?! HMRC will be coming thick and fast. £5m a month to HMRC ??????? I doubt that very much. the only way it could be that would be PAYE and they would have to have monthly wages of circa 25m for them to have to pay £5m in tax a month ! Or be making a huge profit every month which they clearly aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 its prob in the region of 1.2 million a month to the hmrc and they've missed 3 months of payments hence the winding up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 18 minutes ago, 123red1 said: £5m a month to HMRC ??????? I doubt that very much. the only way it could be that would be PAYE and they would have to have monthly wages of circa 25m for them to have to pay £5m in tax a month ! Or be making a huge profit every month which they clearly aren't. 6 minutes ago, Monkeh said: its prob in the region of 1.2 million a month to the hmrc and they've missed 3 months of payments hence the winding up No doubt you’re right - I don’t know, just going on snippets read from various places, so no doubt got figures mixed up! I think it was maybe from this quote in the guardian article....HM Revenue & Customs was due a payment in the region of £4m after May’s payroll and Villa But your figures sound more feasible, I’m no tax expert! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, Alessandro said: No doubt you’re right - I don’t know, just going on snippets read from various places, so no doubt got figures mixed up! I think it was maybe from this quote in the guardian article....HM Revenue & Customs was due a payment in the region of £4m after May’s payroll and Villa But your figures sound more feasible, I’m no tax expert! well if the wage bill is 61 million and the majority of those are players they'd be paying around 40% tax on average 40% of 61 is 24.4 divide by 12 works out at about 2 million a month Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 Money wise Villa could be in trouble, but that could be solved with a few sales. Unless they entered administration I don't think they'll be in serious trouble as they have some very good youth players right now. Can see them having a very midtable season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 Just now, JamesBCFC said: Money wise Villa could be in trouble, but that could be solved with a few sales. Unless they entered administration I don't think they'll be in serious trouble as they have some very good youth players right now. Can see them having a very midtable season. on paper maybe, but we've seen it so many times with clubs who have off field problems, they tend to struggle, Leeds Birmingham Portsmouth Bolton Blackburn I could go on but you get the idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 Sounds like he wants out to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 The £5 million month is their current monthly losses This is doing the rounds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 51 minutes ago, Olé said: I was wondering that too. Too small to be annual. Is there an accountant reading? Last recorded wage bill was £61m in 2016/17 though is said to have reduced a little since. Assume Villa's PAYE & NIC contributions for those wages are very roughly 50% - £25-30m? Is that a fair assumption? If so, perhaps the £5m is the combined last 2-3 months unpaid? Does not paying your players PAYE/NIC give the players any grounds to rescind contracts? Final question: do clubs pay corporation tax, or can they use their losses to show no profit? I would have thought player costs would be impossible to use because they're capitalised. Yes to that one Ole They need to keep,paying th players and the joke is that if they enter administration they players money has to be paid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebristolred Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 28 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said: Money wise Villa could be in trouble, but that could be solved with a few sales. Unless they entered administration I don't think they'll be in serious trouble as they have some very good youth players right now. Can see them having a very midtable season. I'm not convinced by this to be honest. The club is operating at a £5m-6m loss per month, with parachute payments set to decrease this season. Add onto that the fact that they already have £25m of outstanding debt, and they have a £100m black hole in their finances just to see out the year. Player sales of Grealish, Adomah, Kodjia, etc will ofset the number and help them survive month-to-month for a period of time, and decrease the wage bill, but once that dries up they are screwed. Add into the fact that clubs will now know they are skint and will try to get these players at a cut price, and they are not in a good position whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 19 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said: Sounds like he wants out to me. not to me, sounds like he wants to stay but doesn't have the money required Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 6 minutes ago, nebristolred said: I'm not convinced by this to be honest. The club is operating at a £5m-6m loss per month, with parachute payments set to decrease this season. Add onto that the fact that they already have £25m of outstanding debt, and they have a £100m black hole in their finances just to see out the year. Player sales of Grealish, Adomah, Kodjia, etc will ofset the number and help them survive month-to-month for a period of time, and decrease the wage bill, but once that dries up they are screwed. Add into the fact that clubs will now know they are skint and will try to get these players at a cut price, and they are not in a good position whatsoever. They have already borrowed against next seasons parachute payment apparently !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, nebristolred said: I'm not convinced by this to be honest. The club is operating at a £5m-6m loss per month, with parachute payments set to decrease this season. Add onto that the fact that they already have £25m of outstanding debt, and they have a £100m black hole in their finances just to see out the year. Player sales of Grealish, Adomah, Kodjia, etc will ofset the number and help them survive month-to-month for a period of time, and decrease the wage bill, but once that dries up they are screwed. Add into the fact that clubs will now know they are skint and will try to get these players at a cut price, and they are not in a good position whatsoever. I do sort of agree. I should have said for the immediate time. I dont think theyll go into admin this season, and likely not next season. If they can sell Grealish, McCormack, Hogan etc then thats some players on hefty wages gone (maybe Grealish less so as he was an academy lad). But with a number of players leaving they will need to bring a couple in and wouldnt be able to rely on their academy entirely, Villa need to learn they cant throw money at everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 Just now, JamesBCFC said: I do sort of agree. I should have said for the immediate time. I dont think theyll go into admin this season, and likely not next season. If they can sell Grealish, McCormack, Hogan etc then thats some players on hefty wages gone (maybe Grealish less so as he was an academy lad). But with a number of players leaving they will need to bring a couple in and wouldnt be able to rely on their academy entirely, Villa need to learn they cant throw money at everything. the only real player with a decent value is Grealish he'll get about 20 million McCormack needs to be sold for 6 mill min (thats what they owe fulham) and who's going to pay that for an aging striker in a decline with an attitude problem Hogan they paid up to 9 million for and isn't worth that, they'll get around 4 for him but again they still owe money to Brentford, I think we prob got the best deal, a shed load of money and a good defender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 20 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: The £5 million month is their current monthly losses This is doing the rounds So he was visibly in tears on a phone call... Hmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebristolred Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Bristol Rob said: So he was visibly in tears on a phone call... Hmm. Conference calls are often via Skype to be fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyderInACan Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, nebristolred said: Conference calls are often via Skype to be fair Few more years mate they might well be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 10 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said: So he was visibly in tears on a phone call... Hmm. Conference call Suggestion it’s been leaked by one who was involved or witness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Olé said: I was wondering that too. Too small to be annual. Is there an accountant reading? Last recorded wage bill was £61m in 2016/17 though is said to have reduced a little since. Assume Villa's PAYE & NIC contributions for those wages are very roughly 50% - £25-30m? Is that a fair assumption? If so, perhaps the £5m is the combined last 2-3 months unpaid? Does not paying your players PAYE/NIC give the players any grounds to rescind contracts? Final question: do clubs pay corporation tax, or can they use their losses to show no profit? I would have thought player costs would be impossible to use because they're capitalised. Players are an asset on the balance sheet unless they are over 30 in which case they are depreciating and a percentage can be allowed as an offset. Only 4 clubs in the championship paid corporation tax... If you make a gross profit of course you pay tax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 Two things (at least) occur to me. 1. I (seem to) recall reading some time ago that China was actively supporting the purchase of foreign football clubs by their Nationals, both for reasons of prestige and to improve their own domestic game. If, as has been mentioned in various news reports since this Villa problem first arose, China is now limiting the amount of overseas investment in, e.g. English football, might this mean that financial problems will start to materialise in other English clubs owned by the Chinese? 2. Should Villa be forced to hold a 'fire sale', what chance (or desire) might there be of trying to buy a certain Jonathan Kodjia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 On 06/06/2018 at 12:45, Monkeh said: the PL and EFL are looking to close that loop hole as they are alarm about te amount of money going to agent, theres talk of players paying agent fee's and not the clubs at FIFA and UEFA So instead of paying a million in commission to the agent you pay a million extra to the player who then passes it on to his agent . I don't see too much of a difference there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted June 7, 2018 Admin Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 Are players actually on PAYE? Or are they more astute than that and paid as a contractor, as they are only guaranteed work (or payment) for the length of the contract, I would have thought doing it that way would be more tax efficient for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said: "His level of business understanding is weak". Fair enough, the bloke only made his first millions while a student and was a billionaire in his 30s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 Just now, Red-Robbo said: "His level of business understanding is weak". Fair enough, the bloke only made his first millions while a student and was a billionaire in his 30s. Maybe they mean in as in Football / in Uk ? Plenty of successful businessmen have wasted a lot of money in football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 Can we have Albert back ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 Just now, BobBobSuperBob said: Maybe they mean in as in Football / in Uk ? Plenty of successful businessmen have wasted a lot of money in football True. I'd go as far as to say virtually every successful businessman involved in football has! They reckon yachting is like standing in a shower pushing £20s down the plughole. I reckon owning a league club must be like regularly burning a pile of £20s while people shout out that you're a ***! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Red-Robbo said: True. I'd go as far as to say virtually every successful businessman involved in football has! They reckon yachting is like standing in a shower pushing £20s down the plughole. I reckon owning a league club must be like regularly burning a pile of £20s while people shout out that you're a ***! Xia is , Or was reportedly worth £990million His takeover comprises a £52m purchase price and a £24m overdraft. He has been propping upmghe finances at approx 5/6 million a month Approx £150 million So about £200 million to date and estimated he will be lucky to get anywhere near his purchase price back Ouch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 Just now, BobBobSuperBob said: Xia is , Or was reportedly worth £990million His takeover comprises a £52m purchase price and a £24m overdraft. He has been propping upmghe finances at approx 5/6 million a month Approx £150 million So about £200 million to date and estimated he will be lucky to get anywhere near his purchase price back Ouch Talk about a Chinese burn.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 7 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: Talk about a Chinese burn.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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