Couple of Charlton players in big trouble in Ibiza

[And Its Smith]

A lot of potential rapists on OTIB it seems. 

[Monkeh]

38 minutes ago, EmissionImpossible said:

This thread probably needs to be closed.

that I agree with,

we seen what happened in the ched Evans thread before,

its a disgusting crime and anyone guilty should get what ever's coming,

but lets remember these guys haven't been found guilty of anything and we've seen the effects of people crying wolf before,

Let the legal system work and the authority's carry out their job before we have a public flogging

[And Its Smith]

57 minutes ago, prankerd said:

People make out that women are so inocent and fragile..

I dont know the facts but if its a sex attack then thats discusting but to say a woman is going to a hotel room for tea and biscuits is a bit naive.

90 percent of women going to a mens hotel room is to have sex..

Prankerd aint letting no lady change her mind. Can only hope my daughter is allowed to change her mind when she gets older

[Monkeh]

2 minutes ago, RedDave said:

A lot of potential rapists on OTIB it seems. 

what because they don't jump on the band wagon and hang the two lads before anything is proven? 

[And Its Smith]

Just now, Monkeh said:

what because they don't jump on the band wagon and hang the two lads before anything is proven? 

Have i done that? No. Read what is being said above.  

[1bristolcity]

1 hour ago, prankerd said:

People make out that women are so inocent and fragile..

I dont know the facts but if its a sex attack then thats discusting but to say a woman is going to a hotel room for tea and biscuits is a bit naive.

90 percent of women going to a mens hotel room is to have sex..

People make out that women are so innocent and fragile.... well yes men do dominate women and do rape women even kill women, men are physically stronger what are people 'making' out that that is not the case...or is it just you making out?

[Selred]

11 minutes ago, RedDave said:

A lot of potential rapists on OTIB it seems. 

Sorry Dave that’s out of order. 

Saying something which I don’t agree with is one thing, but calling them a potential rapist is too far. 

[1bristolcity]

PEOPLE MAKE OUT THAT WOMEN ARE SO INNOCENT AND FRAGILE!!

I despair I really do, OK it's a football Forum, not a teachers training seminar, but in this day and age for that to be out up on here is just not on.

Just when do Mods intervene?  

[Monkeh]

10 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Have i done that? No. Read what is being said above.  

yea and you accusing people of be potential rapist is bang out of order and frankly disgusting 

[BRISTOL86]

A fair few people doing the football fan thicko stereotype no favours I see. It’s not 1970 anymore lads. 

[And Its Smith]

6 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

yea and you accusing people of be potential rapist is bang out of order and frankly disgusting 

Perhaps it might make them think about their comments.

10 minutes ago, Selred said:

Sorry Dave that’s out of order. 

Saying something which I don’t agree with is one thing, but calling them a potential rapist is too far. 

Maybe it is but so is what they are saying. Give them food for thought maybe. Sure they arent snowflakes!

[prankerd]

Typical over reaction... in what way did i condone rape?

If a woman says no its no but why put yourself in that risk in the first place you tell kids not to go in a van with strangers yet women dont know the risks involved in going to a hotel room with random footballers?

 

[BigAl&Toby]

I stayed in London once. Travelodge I think it was. By Tower Hill.

Anyway I arrived late’ish on a Sunday night. In front of me was a male. Clearly sober and coherent. In tow was a female. Dressed for a night out. And for her the night was over. Or could have been just about to begin. Or turn sour.

Anyway the chap behind the desk asked said male what sort of room he wanted. The female, slurring her words, giggling was barely able to stand.

The male said he didn’t care. He just wanted a room. 

Chap behind the desk looked at the female and went off to check room availability.

Came back and told the male they didn’t have any.

Commence all manner of swearing and racial insults. Male grabs arm of female and walks out to a waiting car that sped off into what I imagine must have been a very murky distance.

Me? I got a room.

See gents I doubt this lady - might have been someone’s wife, partner, daughter or granddaughter - might not have been able to play chess. Or like tea. 

But she equally wouldn’t have been able to give consent either. And the male who wanted the room so badly only had one thing on his mind. And that wasn’t chess or tea either.

You’d be right when you say “we don’t know the facts”. About Ibiza. Or Tower Hill.

But anyone with an ounce of common sense knows what would have happened at Tower Hill and what is likely to have happened in Ibiza.

Check mate boys. Any career you might have had as a professional footballer is likely to be over.

[prankerd]

Im sorry if i rubbed people off the wrong way with my comments, i guess im biased because iv had a mate wrongly accused before 

[nebristolred]

52 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Interesting to know what you mean by 'proven right' ? Evans was convicted of having non-consentual intercourse, his victim having been intoxicated or as she alleged, having been drugged. His appeal against the conviction was dismissed. Worryingly, when granted a second leave to appeal two years later his defence sought to muddy the waters not with reference to the crime for which he was convicted, rather to suggest that the victim's previous sexual history in some way contributed to the events that night. It was that, quite disgracefully, that led jurors to concede, wrongfully in my opinion, an element of doubt such he was acquitted. Much as the fact OJ Simpson is a murdering scumbag who's never been convicted of murder, it's not the minor percentage of doubt that's important (other than to the accused) it's the majority action of behaviour in which lies the truth. As per my original post whether or not these players are ever convicted of a crime isn't the point, the base and degraded attitude shown toward women says all one needs to know about them.

You asked me what I mean by 'proven right' but then omit the part of my quote where I actually explain it , albeit briefly I'll admit. I don't want to go off topic, and I don't want to pretend that Ched Evans acted in any way other than scummy, because he didn't. But it doesn't really matter how bad his actions were, the point still stands.

[jezza123]

I live in Ibiza, and know that the players will get a fair and balanced hearing.  There is actually a section of the court in Ibiza town that deals exclusively with reports of violence / sexual attacks against women.  An entire floor in the court house is dedicated to this.

Also the justice system here is very quick - so an outcome should be known very soon.  I will keep you posted with articles from the local press.

Shame this horrible matter happens to be my first post.

[BRISTOL86]

26 minutes ago, prankerd said:

Im sorry if i rubbed people off the wrong way 

 

[1bristolcity]

43 minutes ago, prankerd said:

Typical over reaction... in what way did i condone rape?

If a woman says no its no but why put yourself in that risk in the first place you tell kids not to go in a van with strangers yet women dont know the risks involved in going to a hotel room with random footballers?

 

Stop digging... why (if they did) not go anywhere without the threat of rape, even with some random footballer?

Of course we all need to be aware in not putting ourselves at risk, but you sound apologetic to the man as opposed to condemning their actions. Men often overpower women in such circumstances, they can use their status or wealth into thinking they can get away with it. Witness some very high profile cases of late, it has taken women decades to actually stand up and be heard, no more excuses or blaming it on the weaker sex, please.  

[1bristolcity]

32 minutes ago, prankerd said:

Im sorry if i rubbed people off the wrong way with my comments, i guess im biased because iv had a mate wrongly accused before 

So your comments were biased against women, because you felt your mate was wrongly accused, fair enough but consider how the weight of justice has been against women in the past, and were dismissed as 'she deserved it', 'no smoke without fire' etc. 

[BTRFTG]

27 minutes ago, nebristolred said:

You asked me what I mean by 'proven right' but then omit the part of my quote where I actually explain it , albeit briefly I'll admit. 

Appreciate where you're coming from and assume by this you refer to the suggestion an element of 'ambiguity' arose. Problem being this didn't relate to the actual crime for which he was originally convicted, rather comprised a form of associated deflection, which the jury bought - the Trumpesque ' I may be flawed but I'm not as flawed as them' argument.

[nebristolred]

7 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Appreciate where you're coming from and assume by this you refer to the suggestion an element of 'ambiguity' arose. Problem being this didn't relate to the actual crime for which he was originally convicted, rather comprised a form of associated deflection, which the jury bought - the Trumpesque ' I may be flawed but I'm not as flawed as them' argument.

Fair enough, either way (and I don't mean to be rude when I say this), I'm not interested in having another debate over the CE case. My original point was purely to stick to the facts and not jump to conclusions in the early stages of these things 

[reddogkev]

Is it just me thinking this thread doesn't belong on a football forum any more?

Close it down!

[Coxy27]

19 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

The sheer fact they've put themselves in the position they have outs them as utter scumbags. Like Evans it's not about the adversarial 'he said, she said',  if there was ever to be an iota of doubt the answer is always a clear and unequivocal no and the fact they wouldn't think as such shows them for the degenerates they are.

There's also no dilemma, they should be sacked for gross misconduct and for bringing Charlton's name into disrepute. That has nothing to do with the allegations and everything to do with the headlines.

There are no facts in the article, and none have been released anywhere else as far as I can tell yet.

You are jumping to a conclusion that these men are 'utter scumbags'. We know nothing of what happened.

(Disclaimer before anyone jumps on it) I'M NOT FOR ONE SECOND SUGGESTING SHE HAS DONE THIS IT IS PURELY AN EXAMPLE - However, there are been proven cases in the past where sexual assault accusations have been completely fabricated.

Example: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/aug/24/woman-jailed-10-years-false-rape-claims-jemma-beale

When more information is released, if it turns out they put themselves in a compromised position, then I would agree with you, but so far, you really can't be sure of anything and you're jumping the gun.

[BTRFTG]

31 minutes ago, Coxy27 said:

There are no facts in the article

Actually there are dozens of them and even more from those in the know near their club ( my locale.)

Now you may think it the norm but in my book the fact one has been arrested such as to have the discussion as to whether one has commuted a sexual assault, abetted an assault or committed a privacy offense by filming and distributing images of the assault - that makes one a scumbag irrespective of any degree of complicity between the parties. Certainly the way the charges have been laid implies acts of collusion.

 

[LondonBristolian]

No idea what has happened here but it is worth remembering that only around 2% of sexual assault allegations are false, and a far higher % of sexual assaults do not get reported to the police. 

Various things could have happened - and the court and justice system will ultimately decide - but the alleged victim lying about what happened is quite low on the balance of probabilities. I very much hope what happened in the Ched Evans case does not happen and she gets exposed or pilloried for reporting this. 

[MarcusX]

On 15/06/2018 at 09:10, BigAlToby&Liam said:

I stayed in London once. Travelodge I think it was. By Tower Hill.

Anyway I arrived late’ish on a Sunday night. In front of me was a male. Clearly sober and coherent. In tow was a female. Dressed for a night out. And for her the night was over. Or could have been just about to begin. Or turn sour.

Anyway the chap behind the desk asked said male what sort of room he wanted. The female, slurring her words, giggling was barely able to stand.

The male said he didn’t care. He just wanted a room. 

Chap behind the desk looked at the female and went off to check room availability.

Came back and told the male they didn’t have any.

Commence all manner of swearing and racial insults. Male grabs arm of female and walks out to a waiting car that sped off into what I imagine must have been a very murky distance.

Me? I got a room.

See gents I doubt this lady - might have been someone’s wife, partner, daughter or granddaughter - might not have been able to play chess. Or like tea. 

But she equally wouldn’t have been able to give consent either. And the male who wanted the room so badly only had one thing on his mind. And that wasn’t chess or tea either.

You’d be right when you say “we don’t know the facts”. About Ibiza. Or Tower Hill.

But anyone with an ounce of common sense knows what would have happened at Tower Hill and what is likely to have happened in Ibiza.

Check mate boys. Any career you might have had as a professional footballer is likely to be over.

Ahhh so based on one experience that you probably don’t even know the full facts of, you’ve formed an opinion of another situation?

could be any number of reasons why he needed a room? Could have even been his girlfriend who has had too much to drink and he’s furious she can’t make it home. Just a complete opposite assumption based on the small details available in the example.

not every bloke is the same and just because one person may have evil intentions in one situation doesn’t mean everyone does.

its silly to speculate about a situation no one knows anything about - a bit like the chad Evans case no one really knows what happened there other than the people in the room. My stance on that was that despite it being a scummy move to cheat on his Mrs and the way in which he “joined in” none of us will ever know if she consented or not and there were a lot of holes in the story that was made public (such as the initial report being of a lost bag and not a sexual assault - and only becoming so once the police learned of who was in the room) and I don’t see how a jury had enough evidence to provide a guilty verdict.

a lot of people’s opinions on that matter seemed to be based on the perception that a girl wouldn’t sleep with two lads at the same time / one after another. Unfortunately some girls do act like this and some don’t. Some go to a hotel room wanting sex and some go to hangout.

to the people who have basically excused the guys actions by saying “what else does a girl go to a hotel for”, just give your heads a roll lads - that isn’t consent and it’s scary that people have that attitude and see it as a generic “green light”

[BristolCity1992]

On 15/06/2018 at 09:24, prankerd said:

Im sorry if i rubbed people off the wrong way with my comments, i guess im biased because iv had a mate wrongly accused before 

That doesn't excuse your comment. I've been wrongly accused of Rape before. (As a teenager I will add)  I manage to not then act like a ***** to other women that make legitimate accusations of Rape.  

On 15/06/2018 at 08:50, Selred said:

Sorry Dave that’s out of order. 

Saying something which I don’t agree with is one thing, but calling them a potential rapist is too far. 

Not really. The comments were specifically stating that the woman was nieve for going to a hotel room and that projects victim blaming. It's bullshit. I've gone back to plenty of people's houses in groups after parties to carry it on and no one thinks that's consent or that it's even on the table. I think you'll find the people that do think that are much more likely to commit rape.

They need to check their attitude towards women as it's that kind of atmosphere that creates a culture where rape is justified by the pupertrators. "Well she seemed keen and came back to the room... So you know...." 

I will also add that no one knows what's happened here and at the moment it's an alleged offence so I agree with that.