Major Isewater Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 29 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said: Maybe with what looks like a hard brexit in the offing he's making a defensive move. What's Ravenscroft? I think it's a house at Hogwarts . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 9 hours ago, BobbyIsMyDad said: Forgive me for my lack of business knowledge here.. I’m sure he’s sold a large amount of his shares in the last few years. Regardless of his now 10% stake equalling 1 billion, surely this isn’t good for Steve in the long term? I’d imagine HL is generating more profit than City, so is he not ultimately sacrificing consistent profit/assets to fund the development of city/Bristol sport? What part of his strategy am I missing here? My take on this is whatever my doubts on his ability to make the right football decisions, giving him any advice on financial matters is a bit like trying to tell Messi or Cristiano Ronaldo how to be better footballers.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashton_fan Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 10 hours ago, BobbyIsMyDad said: Forgive me for my lack of business knowledge here.. I’m sure he’s sold a large amount of his shares in the last few years. Regardless of his now 10% stake equalling 1 billion, surely this isn’t good for Steve in the long term? I’d imagine HL is generating more profit than City, so is he not ultimately sacrificing consistent profit/assets to fund the development of city/Bristol sport? What part of his strategy am I missing here? Once you become an OAP you stop worrying about the long term and make sure you spend some while you still can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 10 hours ago, BobbyIsMyDad said: Forgive me for my lack of business knowledge here.. I’m sure he’s sold a large amount of his shares in the last few years. Regardless of his now 10% stake equalling 1 billion, surely this isn’t good for Steve in the long term? I’d imagine HL is generating more profit than City, so is he not ultimately sacrificing consistent profit/assets to fund the development of city/Bristol sport? What part of his strategy am I missing here? John has asked for a pre-season pocket money increase! 2 hours ago, phantom said: Probably not - remember FFP, unless he invests in the naming of the stadium, but SL doesn't seem the type of person that would want that Also invests here https://thevoicebw.com/from-bedroom-to-boardroom/ A really nice article to read I would guess that staying in the top league is the biggest priority at the moment The stadium naming loophole has been closed. He can of course pay as much as he wants for it, but FFP will not allow that to be included in the turnover figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderMB Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 3 hours ago, Major Isewater said: There will always be someone willing to invest in the club, perhaps someone with even more money ( if that's possible ) . In any case the club will be here long after we have moved on to the upper tier . I admire your optimism, but given how much of a struggle we've had under Lansdown, with the stadium issues, relegations, and the amount of his money we need to stay exactly where we are I can't see anyone wanting to spend £100m when they can pick us up for £75m after relegation. By the time Lansdown hands over the Bristol City bank account, I think the best we can hope for is that we are self-sufficient as a business entity, so that if that investment doesn't come we're not ******. Outside investment would obviously be great, but I can't see someone wanting to buy us over a club in a city that's more open towards investment and improvement of infrastructure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAl&Toby Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 6 hours ago, Redsox said: It's obscene that one person has that amount of wealth and avoids tax. However good it's been to city it's become a bit sad to see someone frittering money on an attempt to play premier league football when yards from AG people visit food banks. Of course it's good for us but like people say " you can't buy class" Spot on @Redsox. Sadly that particular point is far too subtle for the majority on here. As long as Steve is investing in making us proud very few give a shit about those that go hungry or without a safe roof over their heads. But when the NHS/Justice/Education system/s are well and truly ****** no one will point a finger at those who avoid and evade paying their fair share of tax. Oh now. We’ll all clap and be grateful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo88 Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 14 hours ago, zippycar said: The article says Hargreaves Lansdown market cap £9.3 billion so 10.9% of that equals £1.01 billion I believe that be owned upwards of 25% at one stage. According to Wiki "In April 2009, he sold a stake of 4.7% in Hargreaves Lansdown for a sum of £47.2million, which he put towards the cost of building Bristol City's new football stadium." At today's share price that would have netted him approx £430 million - ouch But I suppose he's still a billionaire The Forbes rich list of June gives him a worth of $2.5m. This seems more like it as he always values him at approx £2m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo88 Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 6 hours ago, Redsox said: It's obscene that one person has that amount of wealth and avoids tax. However good it's been to city it's become a bit sad to see someone frittering money on an attempt to play premier league football when yards from AG people visit food banks. Of course it's good for us but like people say " you can't buy class" You could always do the same as SL. Start a business from scratch in your bedroom, and when you have a couple of billion pounds, give it away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoystonFoote'snephew Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Is his entire wealth derived from HL though? Surely he has a portfolio of investments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 9 minutes ago, pongo88 said: The Forbes rich list of June gives him a worth of $2.5m. This seems more like it as he always values him at approx £2m. 2.5m? Has he got a hole in his pocket? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redsox Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Thanks for your response, Pongo88, I did start a business, in my garage though. It did well and I've enjoyed giving some money away. I've never avoided tax by overseas investment as I've witnessed first hand, depravation and relatives fighting for their lives in underfunded NHS wards. So any success I've had would never give me any satisfaction without contributing to my community. At SL's age he maybe thinking about his legacy which will never amount to much if he hides from British tax in Guernsey whilst Bristolians go homeless, hungry or sick in hospital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In the Net Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 29 minutes ago, Redsox said: Thanks for your response, Pongo88, I did start a business, in my garage though. It did well and I've enjoyed giving some money away. I've never avoided tax by overseas investment as I've witnessed first hand, depravation and relatives fighting for their lives in underfunded NHS wards. So any success I've had would never give me any satisfaction without contributing to my community. At SL's age he maybe thinking about his legacy which will never amount to much if he hides from British tax in Guernsey whilst Bristolians go homeless, hungry or sick in hospital. Maybe SL does donate to local good causes, but doesn't publicise it. He must have paid a big wedge of tax during his time with HL, and generated local jobs, and thereby more tax going into the national coffers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redsox Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 8 minutes ago, In the Net said: Maybe SL does donate to local good causes, but doesn't publicise it. He must have paid a big wedge of tax during his time with HL, and generated local jobs, and thereby more tax going into the national coffers. Maybe he does no one knows. I'm not saying anything other than my objection is to anyone removing money earnt in this economy. I think if you earn money in a society that you've benefited from then money should be recycled. If you imagined us all living in a large village and one of us did ok earning profits off each of us then hid it away outside of the village walls we would form an opinion if we were struggling to make ends meet. As I said he's great spending money on City and achieved some success for us. I just feel uncomfortable with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciderwithtommy Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Standard for a founder to sell majority of shares once the company is public, as to be seen to not have a controlling stake in the company. will no doubt be reinvesting, lazy journalism i think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 16 minutes ago, In the Net said: Maybe SL does donate to local good causes, but doesn't publicise it. He must have paid a big wedge of tax during his time with HL, and generated local jobs, and thereby more tax going into the national coffers. People seem to completely ignore the fact that direct investment creates wealth and revenue for the country. The employees of HL, BCFC, Bristol rugby, Bristol Sport will have created much more revenue than Mr Lansdown could ever have contributed, had he not been successful. People see a persons wealth and think they haven't paid a penny towards society, that's probably a long way from reality, would they bother if they had to pay massive amounts of tax and have someone else decide how it's invested. The money he has put into the stadium development alone has created long term stability in that area. It will sustain for example: Employment at the stadium on match day, for football and rugby. Investments in the sporting infrastructure at Failand. Employment within Bristol Sport on the admin side. Employment for all the events held there. Employment for the outside companies that service those events. People attending any event spending their money in the local economy. Anyone employed there paying their PAYE taxes and their council taxes. I'm sure there are numerous other benefits to the local community as well as a few negatives but, MR Lansdown could quite easily have paid over the same amount of money in taxes, and some blithering idiot would have squandered the majority of it on ill thought out schemes such as a flyover for buses in Ashton, which could quite easily have gone on the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INCRED Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 5 hours ago, ashton_fan said: Once you become an OAP you stop worrying about the long term and make sure you spend some while you still can Maybe in the autumn of his years he wants to taste success at the top and intends to not only further expand the infrastructure around the gate but also start filtering money into both Rugby and football clubs to realise his dreams and aspirations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 If I'm correct, the last two times he drew money down from his shares, it was for investment in the sporting infrastructure. 50m to develop AV, then another 40m for stadium top up and failand academy. My pound sign won't come up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redsox Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Rich said: People seem to completely ignore the fact that direct investment creates wealth and revenue for the country. The employees of HL, BCFC, Bristol rugby, Bristol Sport will have created much more revenue than Mr Lansdown could ever have contributed, had he not been successful. People see a persons wealth and think they haven't paid a penny towards society, that's probably a long way from reality, would they bother if they had to pay massive amounts of tax and have someone else decide how it's invested. The money he has put into the stadium development alone has created long term stability in that area. It will sustain for example: Employment at the stadium on match day, for football and rugby. Investments in the sporting infrastructure at Failand. Employment within Bristol Sport on the admin side. Employment for all the events held there. Employment for the outside companies that service those events. People attending any event spending their money in the local economy. Anyone employed there paying their PAYE taxes and their council taxes. I'm sure there are numerous other benefits to the local community as well as a few negatives but, MR Lansdown could quite easily have paid over the same amount of money in taxes, and some blithering idiot would have squandered the majority of it on ill thought out schemes such as a flyover for buses in Ashton, which could quite easily have gone on the road. Don't dispute that money spent adds to the economy. But there's a difference between vanity projects and contributing to society. I don't remember anywhere on my self assessment form an option to select where I think my taxes should be spent or servicemen being asked which conflicts they think appropriate to fight in. But hey ho it's just a way I think we should contribute to our society Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, Redsox said: Don't dispute that money spent adds to the economy. But there's a difference between vanity projects and contributing to society. I don't remember anywhere on my self assessment form an option to select where I think my taxes should be spent or servicemen being asked which conflicts they think appropriate to fight in. But hey ho it's just a way I think we should contribute to our society You seem to be implying that the investment into the local economy through Hargreaves Lansdown, what would have been 90m into AV, 47M into the stadium, so many millions into the academy at Failand and gawd knows how many millions into the rugby are part of a vanity project. Sport and the success of that, can be a massive injection of feelgood into the community and this community is benefitting from it. Surely you can't believe it's just to make him feel good? It's not like a trip to the shops you know. I'm sure he's had to draw on all sorts of reserves and strength to achieve what he has so far, regardless of how much money he has. Were you at the planning meetings, party to drawing up the plans, working out the best ways of investing those sums of money. I would agree some of it seems to have been wasted, regarding fees/wages paid for players, but I don't suppose he intends to get it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redsox Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, Rich said: You seem to be implying that the investment into the local economy through Hargreaves Lansdown, what would have been 90m into AV, 47M into the stadium, so many millions into the academy at Failand and gawd knows how many millions into the rugby are part of a vanity project. Sport and the success of that, can be a massive injection of feelgood into the community and this community is benefitting from it. Surely you can't believe it's just to make him feel good? It's not like a trip to the shops you know. I'm sure he's had to draw on all sorts of reserves and strength to achieve what he has so far, regardless of how much money he has. Were you at the planning meetings, party to drawing up the plans, working out the best ways of investing those sums of money. I would agree some of it seems to have been wasted, regarding fees/wages paid for players, but I don't suppose he intends to get it wrong. HL UK based activities are a matter for that company and their share holders. All I've maintained is that removing money from the UK economy to avoid paying tax on money earnt here is unacceptable to me personally. As far as vanity goes I think having a massive stand with my name on it serves no other purpose other than massaging ego. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reformed_red Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 2 hours ago, Redsox said: Maybe he does no one knows. I'm not saying anything other than my objection is to anyone removing money earnt in this economy. I think if you earn money in a society that you've benefited from then money should be recycled. If you imagined us all living in a large village and one of us did ok earning profits off each of us then hid it away outside of the village walls we would form an opinion if we were struggling to make ends meet. As I said he's great spending money on City and achieved some success for us. I just feel uncomfortable with it. That's not really SLs problem or fault though, is it? The system is there, he does nothing illegal. The moral argument holds water only to those who share the same viewpoint, of which there are many. The issues re Foodbanks, social depravity, economic divides etc run far experience than what a billionaire chooses to do with his money. And let's be honest, he's being sensible with his wealth, as we all no doubt would in his shoes. Blame the government and the apathy of the "community" who fail to lobby it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redsox Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 5 minutes ago, reformed_red said: That's not really SLs problem or fault though, is it? The system is there, he does nothing illegal. The moral argument holds water only to those who share the same viewpoint, of which there are many. The issues re Foodbanks, social depravity, economic divides etc run far experience than what a billionaire chooses to do with his money. And let's be honest, he's being sensible with his wealth, as we all no doubt would in his shoes. Blame the government and the apathy of the "community" who fail to lobby it. No it's his choice what he does and how he plays the system. Some find it acceptable some don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiale Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 10 hours ago, Redsox said: It's obscene that one person has that amount of wealth and avoids tax. However good it's been to city it's become a bit sad to see someone frittering money on an attempt to play premier league football when yards from AG people visit food banks. Of course it's good for us but like people say " you can't buy class" 3 hours ago, BigAlToby&Liam said: Spot on @Redsox. Sadly that particular point is far too subtle for the majority on here. As long as Steve is investing in making us proud very few give a shit about those that go hungry or without a safe roof over their heads. But when the NHS/Justice/Education system/s are well and truly ****** no one will point a finger at those who avoid and evade paying their fair share of tax. Oh now. We’ll all clap and be grateful. 44 minutes ago, Redsox said: HL UK based activities are a matter for that company and their share holders. All I've maintained is that removing money from the UK economy to avoid paying tax on money earnt here is unacceptable to me personally. As far as vanity goes I think having a massive stand with my name on it serves no other purpose other than massaging ego. 33 minutes ago, Redsox said: No it's his choice what he does and how he plays the system. Some find it acceptable some don't. Pretty sure he would have paid tax on the sale of the shares. As for contribution, the recent stadium improvements alone were around 40 million, that money went to companies / supply chains for parts and materials filtering from electricians working on the stadium to port handlers / miners digging up/transporting goods. People who need to earn money to feed themselves kids and families - it's not like the money he spends is just being set on fire. The employees of HL (over a thousand) , Bristol Rugby, Bristol City all earning a wage, and all their money also trickling down to shops / businesses. As for the Tax and NI paid by those companies and employees, probably exceeds in one year the combined contribution of all the rest of Bristol City supporters in a life time. SL's probably contributed more to the welfare of everyone on this forum than the posters themselves, just due to the sums involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 53 minutes ago, Fiale said: Pretty sure he would have paid tax on the sale of the shares. As for contribution, the recent stadium improvements alone were around 40 million, that money went to companies / supply chains for parts and materials filtering from electricians working on the stadium to port handlers / miners digging up/transporting goods. People who need to earn money to feed themselves kids and families - it's not like the money he spends is just being set on fire. The employees of HL (over a thousand) , Bristol Rugby, Bristol City all earning a wage, and all their money also trickling down to shops / businesses. As for the Tax and NI paid by those companies and employees, probably exceeds in one year the combined contribution of all the rest of Bristol City supporters in a life time. SL's probably contributed more to the welfare of everyone on this forum than the posters themselves, just due to the sums involved. Not sure there is Capital Gains Tax in Guernsey on sake of shares....think there is on property though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zip Nolan Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Perhaps Marvellous Marvin is going to announce a local benefactor has put up the dosh to build The Steve Lansdown Arena at Temple Meads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redapple Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 6 hours ago, Rich said: People seem to completely ignore the fact that direct investment creates wealth and revenue for the country. The employees of HL, BCFC, Bristol rugby, Bristol Sport will have created much more revenue than Mr Lansdown could ever have contributed, had he not been successful. People see a persons wealth and think they haven't paid a penny towards society, that's probably a long way from reality, would they bother if they had to pay massive amounts of tax and have someone else decide how it's invested. The money he has put into the stadium development alone has created long term stability in that area. It will sustain for example: Employment at the stadium on match day, for football and rugby. Investments in the sporting infrastructure at Failand. Employment within Bristol Sport on the admin side. Employment for all the events held there. Employment for the outside companies that service those events. People attending any event spending their money in the local economy. Anyone employed there paying their PAYE taxes and their council taxes. I'm sure there are numerous other benefits to the local community as well as a few negatives but, MR Lansdown could quite easily have paid over the same amount of money in taxes, and some blithering idiot would have squandered the majority of it on ill thought out schemes such as a flyover for buses in Ashton, which could quite easily have gone on the road. Great post. Deserves a hundred likes. Saved me writing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendyredredrobin Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 The 35m CGT Steve has not had to pay HMRC, may be spent on BCFC instead. I woyld rather see it go to BCFC than HMRC personally. There is of course an argument that 35m lost to HMRC could have been spent on NHS, but that organisation wastes more than that every week on non essential treatments and crazy money spent on consultants overtime, agency staff, administrators, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 5 hours ago, Redsox said: HL UK based activities are a matter for that company and their share holders. All I've maintained is that removing money from the UK economy to avoid paying tax on money earnt here is unacceptable to me personally. As far as vanity goes I think having a massive stand with my name on it serves no other purpose other than massaging ego. While I can sympathise with your feelings regarding tax evasion, it's worth pointing out that it was the rest of the board that insisted on it being the Lansdown Stand, not him. I don't object to it, any more than I do the Dolman Stand. Sadly, I think you'll have a tough job finding a club owner in the top two divisions who doesn't use tax havens and loopholes to shelter their money from the exposure us poorer mugs cannot avoid. I put the blame not on the Lansdowns of this world, but on the successive governments who have allowed those loopholes and havens to exist - often while telling us "there is no money in the kitty". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Constant Rabbit Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 Again.... The guy owns Bristol City, Bears, Flyers etc The stadium, AV land, multiple buildings around the AG area. There is no 'benevolence' here - its business. At some point in time - presumably when AV can be rezoned, the whole shebang will be sold off to a super-rich Chinese/USA/Russian etc etc group as an 'investment opportunity' Football club in,or nearly in,the Prem High performing Rugby club State-of-the art stadium with room to expand Planning permission for new basketball / concert arena (if not already built) 1500+ housing units on AV land Light industrial/retail units on AV land Plus many many other benefits. Bundle that lot up and you get far more than the 100,000,000 quid already spent - 5x more, 10x more Sure, he loves Bristol Sport, but don't pretend that a whacking great profit was not the end game. And don't think that JL will see BCFC into a bright future - he's just there to assist in the inevitable takeover of Lansdowns folly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miah Dennehy Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 This can only mean one thing. You bastards are going to put in a bid for Tom Lockyer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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