JamesBCFC Posted June 28, 2018 Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 Just now, phantom said: So give me an example @JamesBCFC when we have ever done this You need to read what @RedM has written above It's literally what we are doing right now. Flint being Player A Webster (or whoeved the replacement is) is Player B I can't give a previous example because it's a fairly recent strategy for us and it's taken until now for us to develop a players quality a significant amount. Otherwise look at Brentford, they started doing this before we did and use a different identification method for finding players but the overall strategy is pretty similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted June 28, 2018 Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 Just now, phantom said: But that's my point, we bring players in improve them then sell them. We need to be keeping these players otherwise we're not going to improve Yeah, lets keep a player who wont improve any further. Instead of signing someone who may not be the same quality at this moment in time, but in a season or two will be a better player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted June 28, 2018 Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 6 minutes ago, phantom said: So give me an example @JamesBCFC when we have ever done this You need to read what @RedM has written above To me what @JamesBCFChas written looks more like football manager/looks good on paper than what I wrote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted June 28, 2018 Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, RedM said: To me what @JamesBCFChas written looks more like football manager/looks good on paper than what I wrote Well no. I was writing what the club are trying to do. I'm not saying it is guarenteed to work every time, and there are several things that may prevent a player meeting the potential they are expected to reach. It's also similar to what Brentford do, but they started doing it a good few years before us. Hasn't fared too badly for them. The difference with us is we are probably able to spend a bit more money on these players to develop which means (in theory) players with a higher potential may be in our reach but beyond Brentfords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxo Jr. Posted June 28, 2018 Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 28 minutes ago, phantom said: But that's my point, we bring players in improve them then sell them. We need to be keeping these players otherwise we're not going to improve But we as a club have improved since we brought these players in? We've improved as a club since we sold Kodjia for millions, we've improved since we let Abraham go. Players come and go all the time, at the moment we keep getting stronger. The only club that doesn't end up eventually selling their biggest asset is Real Madrid. Liverpool sold Coutinho and only got better as the season wore on. Tottenham sold Bale, restructured the club and are now in an infinitely better position. It's nowhere near as simple as "this guy was good for us, if we lose him we'll be bad". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishRed Posted June 28, 2018 Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 25 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said: Well no. I was writing what the club are trying to do. I'm not saying it is guarenteed to work every time, and there are several things that may prevent a player meeting the potential they are expected to reach. It's also similar to what Brentford do, but they started doing it a good few years before us. Hasn't fared too badly for them. The difference with us is we are probably able to spend a bit more money on these players to develop which means (in theory) players with a higher potential may be in our reach but beyond Brentfords. The last time I looked Brentford were still in the Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCulturalBomb Posted June 28, 2018 Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 3 hours ago, Luxo Jr. said: Bulletproof logic. We took Flint from mediocre League 1 player to top end Championship player, at a point where he'll barely get better, probably worse, and sold him for good money. We took Bobby Reid from struggling League 2 midfielder to one of the top scorers in the Championship, and sold him for huge money. We made Bobby, simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxo Jr. Posted June 28, 2018 Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, ScottishRed said: The last time I looked Brentford were still in the Championship. You say that like it's a bad thing. They're a comfortable, structured side. All the sides that go up to the Premier League either have that good club structure or stupid money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted June 28, 2018 Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, ScottishRed said: The last time I looked Brentford were still in the Championship. But they werent when they started using this. They were also a side who would usually struggle if they did get a Championship season, they are pretty well established now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted June 28, 2018 Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Luxo Jr. said: You say that like it's a bad thing. They're a comfortable, structured side. All the sides that go up to the Premier League either have that good club structure or stupid money. Exactly this. Previous times in the Championship Brentford have been a side that struggles for a year or two before being relegated. Using their strategy that they are currently they were comfortably promoted from League 1 and been top half Championship every season since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted June 28, 2018 Admin Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 14 minutes ago, Luxo Jr. said: But we as a club have improved since we brought these players in? We've improved as a club since we sold Kodjia for millions, we've improved since we let Abraham go. Players come and go all the time, at the moment we keep getting stronger. Would you honestly say we are a better team today than the day we got promoted under Cotts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted June 28, 2018 Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 Just now, phantom said: Would you honestly say we are a better team today than the day we got promoted under Cotts? Absolutely, without a question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Dicks' Barmy Army Posted June 28, 2018 Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 3 hours ago, JamesBCFC said: You are using completely flawed logic, perhaps deliberately. Player A gets sold. Player B is signed with a higher potential ability than Player A After a few seasons Player B is sold Player C is signed with a higher potential ability than Player B. It is about improving the squad over time in a sustainable way, rather than mimicing Aston Villa or Derby. Glad to see you are digging still @JamesBCFC at @phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted June 28, 2018 Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 6 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said: Absolutely, without a question. Easily and even with flint reid bryan and Magnússon gone and discounting webster still a better side than our first season up. Sometimes need to take a step back to take 2-3 forward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxo Jr. Posted June 28, 2018 Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 1 minute ago, phantom said: Would you honestly say we are a better team today than the day we got promoted under Cotts? Are you kidding? As much as I was a fan of Wilbraham, Diedhiou is better. We have exciting young players like O Dowda and Brownhill, our flair player (Paterson) is far better than JET, and better than Freeman too, I personally prefer Pisano to Mark Little, Djuric is a better striker than Agard, Taylor is a better back-up striker to Wes Burns, Baker is a better centre back than any of the ones we had when we were promoted (Ayling, Williams, even close to Flint). It's also not a fair comparison when we've let two of our biggest players go and have had about 2 hours to start replacing them. I think Webster has every chance to be better than Flint, we could very well bring in Marriott, an exciting talent, and we look to be bringing in more quick, attacking players. Obviously we need to recruit more, but this is just how football works. Your players do really well, a bigger club wants them, you regroup, you attract better quality players yourself, you progress. The Cotterill season was great, but we are leaps and bounds ahead, no matter how negative you may feel right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted June 28, 2018 Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, Alan Dicks' Barmy Army said: Glad to see you are digging still @JamesBCFC at @phantom Not making a dig. I disagree and outlined why. Saying someone is using flawed logic isnt a dig when literally pointing out the truth. I have respect for Phantom and even had a pint with him at a match, that doesn't mean I have to agree with him on everything. Your obsession with me is odd though, I'll politely ask you now to keep your stalking of me to on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketh2nd Posted June 28, 2018 Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 3 hours ago, Super said: Let's be honest we aren't going to be getting to the Prem anytime soon. Flint obviously thinks Boro have a better chance than us and offered him a lot more money. No brainer really. i agree with this Flint also isnt getting any younger.... shall be interesting to see where City end up compared to Boro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leveller Posted June 28, 2018 Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 Hi. Can anyone direct me to the Kelly and Vyner thread ? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted June 28, 2018 Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 7 minutes ago, Leveller said: Hi. Can anyone direct me to the Kelly and Vyner thread ? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted June 28, 2018 Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 41 minutes ago, phantom said: Would you honestly say we are a better team today than the day we got promoted under Cotts? Yes we are twice the team we were back then, we’ve improved season upon season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted June 28, 2018 Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, Monkeh said: Yes we are twice the team we were back then, we’ve improved season upon season Its not even close. Even the players who are still here are vastly improved on their quality compared to when we were promoted. Add in the fact that we can actually fill the subs bench too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westred1 Posted June 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 Anywaaaaay, do we sign an experienced LB to compete with Kelly or another youngster (I.e. what was rumoured in McQueen)? Vyner is heading out on loan. A good loan too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiderEyed Posted June 28, 2018 Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 1 minute ago, westred1 said: Anywaaaaay, do we sign an experienced LB to compete with Kelly or another youngster (I.e. what was rumoured in McQueen)? Vyner is heading out on loan. A good loan too. Highly experienced 'stop gap' for me, player who'll fill his spot in the squad when he's not 100% fit. Experienced pro who he can learn from directly and be influenced mentally would be ideal. How realistic it is that we'll find a mythical, superb pro, old left back willing to come here on reasonable wages, I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 Good news. https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/vyner-commits-future-to-ashton-gate/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shtanley Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 19 hours ago, westred1 said: Anywaaaaay, do we sign an experienced LB to compete with Kelly or another youngster (I.e. what was rumoured in McQueen)? Vyner is heading out on loan. A good loan too. Signing any left back that isn't going to be backup to Kelly would be a big mistake. What makes it a good loan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westred1 Posted June 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 3 minutes ago, Shtanley said: Signing any left back that isn't going to be backup to Kelly would be a big mistake. What makes it a good loan? A Champ club. Edit: By good loan I mean for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 2 hours ago, westred1 said: A Champ club. Edit: By good loan I mean for him. I hear Ipswich need a centre half Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 23 hours ago, phantom said: But that's my point, we bring players in improve them then sell them. We need to be keeping these players otherwise we're not going to improve I think there’s a slightly different option that we’re not quite seeing, we may never in fact. Just take the the simple £s of Flint and Webster because it suits my argument / the maths! Flint £7m (and I know there is money to Swindon - i’m Ignoring that!) Webster £3.5m who we hope will be better than Flint. What we should be doing us either buying another Webster with the £3.5m left over, so that when Webster 1 goes for £10 in 3 seasons, Webster 2 is still here. Rather than just following the A, B, C model mentioned, we need to adopt A buys 2xB, B buys 2xC (4Cin total). It’s got to be progressive or it don’t ever improve you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View from the Dolman Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 Kelly now confirmed to have a signed a new contract: https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/kelly-pens-new-city-deal/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUSSEL85 Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, View from the Dolman said: Kelly now confirmed to have a signed a new contract: https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/kelly-pens-new-city-deal/ Excellent news, well done to the club. Nice bit of security should Cardiff come in with a £20m bid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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