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The importance of saying no


Olé

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We all knew 2-3 big names would leave this summer. We could probably sense when Kodjia would leave too.

We all know the club wants to be sustainable with a model of developing and then selling players for a profit.

I just wonder if it's equally important for City to show its players it's also in the business of keeping them too.

Because I think people like Diedhiou, Brownhill, will look at this and feel envious and believe they will be next.

 

In other words our actions become self-perpetuating and every summer the best players agitate for a move.

It isn't a healthy message to the squad if we so repeatedly can't offer a contract that keeps our best players.

Perhaps this is a particularly bad summer? Well we quickly need to remind players of what our priorities are.

Perhaps we do turn interest down, and we keep it under wraps? Maybe it's time to start broadcasting it too.

 

We can't become a doormat selling club - Southampton of the Championship - and players need to know it.

If we had Barnsley/Burton budgets I'd understand. But LJ and MA have spent like Fulham/Leeds in parallel.

If we want to actually keep some players in future, they will need to be reminded which type of club we are. 

Discuss.

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Can't agree, Bobby HAD to be sold or we'd have lost him for a fraction or nothing and judging by a few of his interviews Flint's been open to moving away for a while. We're not getting ripped off and letting players leave for a fraction of their worth, if a team meets our valuation then we'll sell, but they have to meet our valuation. 

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Historically in recent times you could argue we haven't sold enough players on to bigger and better things. Only Adomah and Kodjia really stand out. I think it's a natural part of the footballing eco-system and if anything the fact that Flint, Kodjia, Reid and Bryan are going is perhaps a positive reflection on our recruitment/pathway in recent years. I'd be a bit worried if none of the players we were buying/promoting from the academy ever got snapped up by the bigger teams. 

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10 minutes ago, Shtanley said:

Historically in recent times you could argue we haven't sold enough players on to bigger and better things. Only Adomah and Kodjia really stand out. I think it's a natural part of the footballing eco-system and if anything the fact that Flint, Kodjia, Reid and Bryan are going is perhaps a positive reflection on our recruitment/pathway in recent years. I'd be a bit worried if none of the players we were buying/promoting from the academy ever got snapped up by the bigger teams. 

The last person to leave City and move onto league-beater status was Andy Cole. Until Reid went I could only name Albert as someone we had ultimately been 100% better off keeping (Tammy does not count, obviously)

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22 minutes ago, hodge said:

Can't agree, Bobby HAD to be sold or we'd have lost him for a fraction or nothing and judging by a few of his interviews Flint's been open to moving away for a while. We're not getting ripped off and letting players leave for a fraction of their worth, if a team meets our valuation then we'll sell, but they have to meet our valuation. 

Of course we had to sell him but it's shocking how we get into these positions where contracts are running out and are over the barrel 

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2 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

Of course we had to sell him but it's shocking how we get into these positions where contracts are running out and are over the barrel 

If a player won’t sign there is nothing you can do, should we of offered Reid 30ka week?

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4 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

Of course we had to sell him but it's shocking how we get into these positions where contracts are running out and are over the barrel 

We sold with 12 months left, its not January. Also Reid's been turning down contract offers. Would you have offered a new deal last summer 2 years out before he showed signs of being a key player for us?

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4 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

Of course we had to sell him but it's shocking how we get into these positions where contracts are running out and are over the barrel 

I would agree with you usually, however I think the issue with Bobby was more a case of if he didn't come good last season, I question if we would have offered him a new contract at all.

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Just now, WolfOfWestStreet said:

If they don't sign, transfer list them. There should be no player with any current or future value with less than 2 years on their deals. 

3 years is the standard deal, so we have to start offering new deals to players after only 12 months? Watch the wage bill go up massively if that's the case. 

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1 minute ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

If they don't sign, transfer list them. There should be no player with any current or future value with less than 2 years on their deals. 

That’s what we have done with Reid 

2 years ago we would of got 10 quid let alone 10 million

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33 minutes ago, Olé said:

We all knew 2-3 big names would leave this summer. We could probably sense when Kodjia would leave too.

We all know the club wants to be sustainable with a model of developing and then selling players for a profit.

I just wonder if it's equally important for City to show its players it's also in the business of keeping them too.

Because I think people like Diedhiou, Brownhill, will look at this and feel envious and believe they will be next.

 

In other words our actions become self-perpetuating and every summer the best players agitate for a move.

It isn't a healthy message to the squad if we so repeatedly can't offer a contract that keeps our best players.

Perhaps this is a particularly bad summer? Well we quickly need to remind players of what our priorities are.

Perhaps we do turn interest down, and we keep it under wraps? Maybe it's time to start broadcasting it too.

 

We can't become a doormat selling club - Southampton of the Championship - and players need to know it.

If we had Barnsley/Burton budgets I'd understand. But LJ and MA have spent like Fulham/Leeds in parallel.

If we want to actually keep some players in future, they will need to be reminded which type of club we are. 

Discuss.

Every player at every English club in the league wants to play in the Premier League.

You can't stop that desire however much you offer the player.  I don't understand why you find this so hard to understand. :blink:

We ARE a selling club because we are not at the top of the tree.  Arsenal are a selling club for the same reason.  Get over it.

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1 minute ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

I guess so ... I'm just gutted and disillusioned. I'll get over it by August probably

That's a Bristol City fan's job description.

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39 minutes ago, Olé said:

We all knew 2-3 big names would leave this summer. We could probably sense when Kodjia would leave too.

We all know the club wants to be sustainable with a model of developing and then selling players for a profit.

I just wonder if it's equally important for City to show its players it's also in the business of keeping them too.

Because I think people like Diedhiou, Brownhill, will look at this and feel envious and believe they will be next.

 

In other words our actions become self-perpetuating and every summer the best players agitate for a move.

It isn't a healthy message to the squad if we so repeatedly can't offer a contract that keeps our best players.

Perhaps this is a particularly bad summer? Well we quickly need to remind players of what our priorities are.

Perhaps we do turn interest down, and we keep it under wraps? Maybe it's time to start broadcasting it too.

 

We can't become a doormat selling club - Southampton of the Championship - and players need to know it.

If we had Barnsley/Burton budgets I'd understand. But LJ and MA have spent like Fulham/Leeds in parallel.

If we want to actually keep some players in future, they will need to be reminded which type of club we are. 

Discuss.

I see what you did there :laughcont:

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1 hour ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

If they don't sign, transfer list them. There should be no player with any current or future value with less than 2 years on their deals. 

The Peterborough model - seems to work for them!!

That being said, I think it's only really in the past couple of years that we've had more than one or two "standout" players that have attracted the attention of other clubs. It could also be argued that for that reason alone, our recruiting and/or coaching has obviously come on in leaps and bounds recently....

It's because of that reason, we find ourselves where we are today - other clubs actually wanting to buy our players - when was the last time we had to "mutually agree" to cancel a contract as nobody wanted them? 

Of course the argument stands that if we'd have gotten the recruitment right in January, then all of these players would be plying their trade in the Premiership come August, and we wouldnt be having rhese discussions. However, that's a whole different topic again (which has been done to death!!!)

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1 hour ago, Monkeh said:

If a player won’t sign there is nothing you can do, should we of offered Reid 30ka week?

 

Well that would be under £4 million over 3 years - we paid £5 million for Diedhiou (and then have his wages on top)  so yes if we wanted him to stay we should, lets be honest though he would still have left for a Premier League team.

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15 minutes ago, Fiale said:

 

Well that would be under £4 million over 3 years - we paid £5 million for Diedhiou (and then have his wages on top)  so yes if we wanted him to stay we should, lets be honest though he would still have left for a Premier League team.

Diedhiou is a better player and would of scored more then Reid if he didn’t get injured 

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1 hour ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

Of course we had to sell him but it's shocking how we get into these positions where contracts are running out and are over the barrel 

Reid refused an improved contract for the reasons he explained in his interview.

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3 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Diedhiou is a better player and would of scored more then Reid if he didn’t get injured 

He goal per game ratio was impressive given the length of time he was out. 

He has a six match ban to serve come the start of the season..........

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2 minutes ago, Robbored said:

He goal per game ratio was impressive given the length of time he was out. 

He has a six match ban to serve come the start of the season..........

We’ve appealed that citing lack of evidence i think it will ether be overturned or dropped to 2 game ban

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As a matter of clarification I wasn't a) disputing we're a selling club or b) debating when we need to make a new contract offer.

But if I'm Diedhiou, Brownhill (insert player you rate here - even Lloyd Kelly) I'm now looking forward to my opportunity to leave.

My question is how we get good players believing in a long term future with us as this week will influence the squad's thinking.

Saying no to an offer at the next opportunity (reminding them that we do actually want to keep good players) would be a start.

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I don’t believe we are a doormat selling club, but there is a limit to what can be spent on contracts for a club the size of ours if we don’t earn promotion and want to stay true to FFP and maintaining a financially sustainable club. Our success on the field last season, most noticeably in the League Cup which brought national attention, has inevitably resulted in interest in our better players from clubs with greater resources than our own. Such is football, such is life. 

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21 minutes ago, Olé said:

As a matter of clarification I wasn't a) disputing we're a selling club or b) debating when we need to make a new contract offer.

But if I'm Diedhiou, Brownhill (insert player you rate here - even Lloyd Kelly) I'm now looking forward to my opportunity to leave.

My question is how we get good players believing in a long term future with us as this week will influence the squad's thinking.

Saying no to an offer at the next opportunity (reminding them that we do actually want to keep good players) would be a start.

Thing is if you reject an offer out of principle rather than on merit of the offer you could annoy the current players so they think they we'd stand in the way of their progression and could lead to more turning down contract extensions. Its tricky but its about a gradual process of improving the quality of the squad, players come and go, judging by interviews we are seemingly trying to play on being a club players can progress their careers from.  

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