The importance of saying no

[SecretSam]

We are a selling club.  Such is life.

[Chivs]

27 minutes ago, Olé said:

As a matter of clarification I wasn't a) disputing we're a selling club or b) debating when we need to make a new contract offer.

But if I'm Diedhiou, Brownhill (insert player you rate here - even Lloyd Kelly) I'm now looking forward to my opportunity to leave.

My question is how we get good players believing in a long term future with us as this week will influence the squad's thinking.

Saying no to an offer at the next opportunity (reminding them that we do actually want to keep good players) would be a start.

To be clear, you think that if Villa or Southampton come in for Brownhill (for example) and we say no, that will motivate Brownhill?  

[Bar BS3]

3 hours ago, Olé said:

We all knew 2-3 big names would leave this summer. We could probably sense when Kodjia would leave too.

We all know the club wants to be sustainable with a model of developing and then selling players for a profit.

I just wonder if it's equally important for City to show its players it's also in the business of keeping them too.

Because I think people like Diedhiou, Brownhill, will look at this and feel envious and believe they will be next.

 

In other words our actions become self-perpetuating and every summer the best players agitate for a move.

It isn't a healthy message to the squad if we so repeatedly can't offer a contract that keeps our best players.

Perhaps this is a particularly bad summer? Well we quickly need to remind players of what our priorities are.

Perhaps we do turn interest down, and we keep it under wraps? Maybe it's time to start broadcasting it too.

 

We can't become a doormat selling club - Southampton of the Championship - and players need to know it.

If we had Barnsley/Burton budgets I'd understand. But LJ and MA have spent like Fulham/Leeds in parallel.

If we want to actually keep some players in future, they will need to be reminded which type of club we are. 

Discuss.

Did we not keep some/all the players in question last summer & January..? Possibly/probably with the agreement that not getting promotion last season would leave us allowing them to leave at an agreeable price..?

[grifty]

30 minutes ago, Olé said:

As a matter of clarification I wasn't a) disputing we're a selling club or b) debating when we need to make a new contract offer.

But if I'm Diedhiou, Brownhill (insert player you rate here - even Lloyd Kelly) I'm now looking forward to my opportunity to leave.

My question is how we get good players believing in a long term future with us as this week will influence the squad's thinking.

Saying no to an offer at the next opportunity (reminding them that we do actually want to keep good players) would be a start.

I’d say that Reid had been here 18 years and flint for 5. They are both quite a long time to be at one club in today’s football climate. I’d say we’d market it to the younger players that if you stick with us for the whole time of your contract that we’ll improve as a club but also sell if the offer is right.

Flints scenario will also show that them if they sign an extension we will take into account offers from bigger clubs to help the player move forward but also protect our investment.

Thinking hopefully, Brownhill, etc would see that and think knuckle down and play well for 2-3 seasons and that will be me

[David Brent]

35 minutes ago, Olé said:

As a matter of clarification I wasn't a) disputing we're a selling club or b) debating when we need to make a new contract offer.

But if I'm Diedhiou, Brownhill (insert player you rate here - even Lloyd Kelly) I'm now looking forward to my opportunity to leave.

My question is how we get good players believing in a long term future with us as this week will influence the squad's thinking.

Saying no to an offer at the next opportunity (reminding them that we do actually want to keep good players) would be a start.

If I’m Diedhiou, Baker or any other LJ signing, I’m thinking why are we selling our best players...this isn’t what I signed up for.

[RedRock]

8 minutes ago, David Brent said:

If I’m Diedhiou, Baker or any other LJ signing, I’m thinking why are we selling our best players...this isn’t what I signed up for.

Well, may be if they put in the same level of commitment and consistency as Flinty and Reid the whole Club would move forwards.

More importantly just think of the fans let down again when in a strong promotion challenging position due to yet another inept January window. The double punishment for us is now watching the spine of the team, including all our favourites, being ripped out. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

5 minutes ago, Moor2Sea said:

Well, may be if they put in the same level of commitment and consistency as Flinty and Reid the whole Club would move forwards.

More importantly just think of the fans let down again when in a strong promotion challenging position due to yet another inept January window. The double punishment for us is now watching the spine of the team, including all our favourites, being ripped out. 

But according to many on here they’re  ‘meh’ about losing Flint and Reid as our players heads had turned after January and lacked the same commitment 

 

Somewhat bizarre as in every game I saw Flint and Reid were consistently (With Korey) the ones most noticeably giving their all

 

 

[Lrrr]

34 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

Did we not keep some/all the players in question last summer & January..? Possibly/probably with the agreement that not getting promotion last season would leave us allowing them to leave at an agreeable price..?

Pretty sure we probably said no to advances for Joe in January

[Touch_my_butter]

3 hours ago, Olé said:

We all knew 2-3 big names would leave this summer. We could probably sense when Kodjia would leave too.

We all know the club wants to be sustainable with a model of developing and then selling players for a profit.

I just wonder if it's equally important for City to show its players it's also in the business of keeping them too.

Because I think people like Diedhiou, Brownhill, will look at this and feel envious and believe they will be next.

 

In other words our actions become self-perpetuating and every summer the best players agitate for a move.

It isn't a healthy message to the squad if we so repeatedly can't offer a contract that keeps our best players.

Perhaps this is a particularly bad summer? Well we quickly need to remind players of what our priorities are.

Perhaps we do turn interest down, and we keep it under wraps? Maybe it's time to start broadcasting it too.

 

We can't become a doormat selling club - Southampton of the Championship - and players need to know it.

If we had Barnsley/Burton budgets I'd understand. But LJ and MA have spent like Fulham/Leeds in parallel.

If we want to actually keep some players in future, they will need to be reminded which type of club we are. 

Discuss.

Of course EVERY CLUB wants to keep their best players, but EVERY CLUB has to sometimes sell.

In the last 12 months we've seen Barcelona lose Neymar, Liverpool: Coutinho, and Arsenal: Sanchez.

Players move clubs. This is modern football.

Our goal should not be to sink our claws into every asset, but recognise when we're fighting a losing battle and capitalise on the circumstances.

We signed Mags, Flint, and Reid for a combined £3m, and have just sold for £20m. Let's see what levels their replacements take us to, both positionally and financially.

[EmissionImpossible]

35 minutes ago, David Brent said:

If I’m Diedhiou, Baker or any other LJ signing, I’m thinking why are we selling our best players...this isn’t what I signed up for.

I imagin they would realise that one was nearly out of contract and the other wanted away.

[TBW]

Did you purposely make all your sentences all the same length? Genuinely impressed.

[BobBobSuperBob]

32 minutes ago, EmissionImpossible said:

I imagin they would realise that one was nearly out of contract and the other wanted away.

Really ?

Where has Flint (Or in fact anyone) said that ?

 

[Olé]

1 hour ago, Chivs said:

To be clear, you think that if Villa or Southampton come in for Brownhill (for example) and we say no, that will motivate Brownhill?  

I'm saying somewhere we have to draw the line, or players will always be attracted to the progression they see their teammates making. I don't think "no" needs to be "no", so much as "not now". If we really believe in our players, we should bet (contract being well) on their value increasing further. 

From memory Southampton didn't sell many of their most famous exports to the first offer, club, and often not even in the first year of interest. I'm not saying we have, or will do, but with all these high profile departures, I do think we need to show that our response to interest is always club first.

Sometimes I'm guilty of applying my own experiences in business to football, but every time I've seen members of a team get promoted or get a better job, a mental countdown clock seems to go off in all their peer group, that they either need to achieve the same promotion or also get another job.

I simply think other players are at higher risk now they've seen key members of the squad move on (more so if they see them enjoying life next season).    We need to have a plan to double down on the players we want to keep for the medium term, and not let them think a good season = getting a move.

EDIT: And I think it would be a good idea to say no to Villa 

[Ivorguy]

4 hours ago, Olé said:

We all knew 2-3 big names would leave this summer. We could probably sense when Kodjia would leave too.

We all know the club wants to be sustainable with a model of developing and then selling players for a profit.

I just wonder if it's equally important for City to show its players it's also in the business of keeping them too.

Because I think people like Diedhiou, Brownhill, will look at this and feel envious and believe they will be next.

 

In other words our actions become self-perpetuating and every summer the best players agitate for a move.

It isn't a healthy message to the squad if we so repeatedly can't offer a contract that keeps our best players.

Perhaps this is a particularly bad summer? Well we quickly need to remind players of what our priorities are.

Perhaps we do turn interest down, and we keep it under wraps? Maybe it's time to start broadcasting it too.

 

We can't become a doormat selling club - Southampton of the Championship - and players need to know it.

If we had Barnsley/Burton budgets I'd understand. But LJ and MA have spent like Fulham/Leeds in parallel.

If we want to actually keep some players in future, they will need to be reminded which type of club we are. 

Discuss.

We are a selling club, a development club plus a few experienced players. We hope one day to have a mixed development and experienced squad that will gain promotion

Webster is an interesting mix of developing and experienced. In the view of a number of figures in the game he is quality. I believe he is a sognificant upgrade on the popular  , but limited  Flint

  Flint I believe has reached his peak, Webster a long way to go. Be positive 

As for Reid we would be idiots to turn down £10m - no guarantee he isn’t a one trick pony

On wards and upwards. Yes we need a goalkeeper and am sure one will be coming. Pisano is quality as is Hegeler

feeling quite positive   Bryan to go at a healthy fee too

Think we are looking at a lean and hungry squad 

 

 

 

 

[JamesBCFC]

11 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

We are a selling club, a development club plus a few experienced players. We hope one day to have a mixed development and experienced squad that will gain promotion

Webster is an interesting mix of developing and experienced. In the view of a number of figures in the game he is quality. I believe he is a sognificant upgrade on the popular  , but limited  Flint

  Flint I believe has reached his peak, Webster a long way to go. Be positive 

As for Reid we would be idiots to turn down £10m - no guarantee he isn’t a one trick pony

On wards and upwards. Yes we need a goalkeeper and am sure one will be coming. Pisano is quality as is Hegeler

feeling quite positive   Bryan to go at a healthy fee too

Think we are looking at a lean and hungry squad 

 

 

 

 

Not something I thought I'd say....

I agree.

[shelts]

Feel the hearts been ripped out of this side. Gutted even though I was expecting it . Let’s sell Bryan now and get it out the way . Being a doom and gloom merchant I find it hard to think we will be higher than last seasons league position 

[The Fat Controller]

I don't think its a bad thing at all for players to have the desire to better themselves. Instead of telling them no, I would tell them that our valuation has to be met in order for them to be sold and that in order for other clubs to want them at that value they will need to perform to a high standard and be consistent. 

[screech]

6 hours ago, Monkeh said:

If a player won’t sign there is nothing you can do, should we of offered Reid 30ka week?

How much do you think a top championship goalscorer is going to cost us in fees and wages?

[cidered abroad]

I'm playing Devil's Advocate with this post. 

We had a dreadful second half of last season. I doubt we will ever know the true reasons. There are so many possible different scenarios that I won't even start to list them here. 

Maybe LJ has decided to say goodbye to the remnants of the League One championship team in order to fully create his own squad. And to do so while they are still very saleable items. 

Johnson isn't ever going to be my favourite as Head Coach but while he is here, perhaps as above, he is seeking a new era without the heroes of another one. I think in his situation, I and many others would do the same. 

 

[CyderInACan]

7 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

As I've noted before what if they only sign a two year deal when joining ? 

Do we transfer list them straight away ?

Christ that’ll be like @Never to the dark side on the plane to Hartlepool. Maybe if we do try to sign Dwight Gayle again we can guarantee him an onward transfer before he’s even landed at Lulsgate!?  

[mikep]

I am concerned that by selling two of our best known names it may reduce our stock in the eyes of players who might have wanted to join us. They may decide that we don't have the desire to get to the Premier League and look at other teams who may give them better chances.

[DaveF]

8 hours ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

If they don't sign, transfer list them. There should be no player with any current or future value with less than 2 years on their deals. 

I didn’t expect such guff from you Larry.

[miketh2nd]

8 hours ago, hodge said:

Can't agree, Bobby HAD to be sold or we'd have lost him for a fraction or nothing and judging by a few of his interviews Flint's been open to moving away for a while. We're not getting ripped off and letting players leave for a fraction of their worth, if a team meets our valuation then we'll sell, but they have to meet our valuation. 

Completely agree with this... people also forget how much Player/agent power there is too, aswell as people wanting a new challenge.  Lets not  kid ourself  Flint wouldn't of signed his new contract if he didn't have some sort of agreement or clause...  Would it be worth keeping a player who didnt want to be here ? I'm not saying I know the truth here but so many are just blaming the club... Yet people bemoaned when other players left for barely anything.

Reid going from his goodbye interview I feel like he knows how hard he has worked to get where he is and maybe the prem dream wont come again.... no one told Reid to leave... if he loved City as much as he did he would of signed  a new contract or declined the move...  which he did neither and would of gone for free next summer unless we make the prem ( which of course I hope we do )

[RedRock]

Maybe some at the Club realise when you have opportunity you grasp it with both hands. 

Others at the Club sign Diony, Kent and Walsh.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

5 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

But according to many on here they’re  ‘meh’ about losing Flint and Reid as our players heads had turned after January and lacked the same commitment 

 

Somewhat bizarre as in every game I saw Flint and Reid were consistently (With Korey) the ones most noticeably giving their all

 

 

i'm pretty much 'meh' about losing any player particularly when they go to a bigger club or a Prem club for a huge wage increase,

If players were handing in transfer requests ( none other than Kodjia) or refusing to train or preferring a club of equal or lesser standing than BCFC then there's a problem.

So as a club we've just sold c,£400k cost of 2 players for c £17 million. Pretty cool.

We've replaced a 28 yr old defender with a £5 million 24 yr old and are trying to get a £6million 23 yr old striker.

what does that say? Work hard- do well and you can progress in our club and if you want to leave and we make a zonking profit then we'll replace you .

And let's face it Bob, however shite our new recruits have been in the last season- no one we sold ( or loans ended) has has been missed. We've bought in Watkins who may be an improvement and an Ipswich Town defender whose own club's fans will question why he chose such an inferior club in preference to them. ( are you getting this @Olé?)

[Maltshoveller]

 

1 hour ago, mikep said:

I am concerned that by selling two of our best known names it may reduce our stock in the eyes of players who might have wanted to join us. They may decide that we don't have the desire to get to the Premier League and look at other teams who may give them better chances.

Or they might be even keener to join us 

Seeing us as a great stepping stone to the "BIG" time

[Maltshoveller]

6 hours ago, SecretSam said:

We are a selling club.  Such is life.

So are 99.99% of clubs

6 hours ago, SecretSam said:

We are a selling club.  Such is life.

So are 99.99% of clubs

6 hours ago, SecretSam said:

We are a selling club.  Such is life.

So are 99.99% of clubs

[Davefevs]

6 hours ago, Olé said:

As a matter of clarification I wasn't a) disputing we're a selling club or b) debating when we need to make a new contract offer.

But if I'm Diedhiou, Brownhill (insert player you rate here - even Lloyd Kelly) I'm now looking forward to my opportunity to leave.

My question is how we get good players believing in a long term future with us as this week will influence the squad's thinking.

Saying no to an offer at the next opportunity (reminding them that we do actually want to keep good players) would be a start.

I think we are still developing our ability to say no.  We’ve been back in the Champ 3 seasons.

We aren’t losing players to mid-table / lower division  rivals, we are losing them to Champ Big-Boys, Premier League clubs (albeit recently promoted) and Champions League clubs.

The next stage of our development is to turn down offers from clubs in our division, we are a long way from fending off bids from Prem clubs.  We’ve bought a young player who is highly rated from our most closely comparable club financially - Ipswich, who have a much better history than us too.  That is a start.

6 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

Did we not keep some/all the players in question last summer & January..? Possibly/probably with the agreement that not getting promotion last season would leave us allowing them to leave at an agreeable price..?

I really think LJ had to fight really hard to keep them in the winter and then MA had a big influence in bringing in Kent and Diony.

[BobBobSuperBob]

23 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

i'm pretty much 'meh' about losing any player particularly when they go to a bigger club or a Prem club for a huge wage increase,

If players were handing in transfer requests ( none other than Kodjia) or refusing to train or preferring a club of equal or lesser standing than BCFC then there's a problem.

So as a club we've just sold c,£400k cost of 2 players for c £17 million. Pretty cool.

We've replaced a 28 yr old defender with a £5 million 24 yr old and are trying to get a £6million 23 yr old striker.

what does that say? Work hard- do well and you can progress in our club and if you want to leave and we make a zonking profit then we'll replace you .

And let's face it Bob, however shite our new recruits have been in the last season- no one we sold ( or loans ended) has has been missed. We've bought in Watkins who may be an improvement and an Ipswich Town defender whose own club's fans will question why he chose such an inferior club in preference to them. ( are you getting this @Olé?)

I think you over complicate or misinterpreted my point MRR

Might not have explained it well but was highlighting the irony , as such , that Flint and Reid were IMHO two players who continued to perform pretty well and with obvious commitment during the post Christmas slump so posters suggesting their heads had been turned , Maybe they had , Maybe not but they ironically IMHO showed no sign , that they , of all of them that they weren’t focused or committed - the ones that are still here have more to answer for in that respect (IMHO) !!!

[Bar BS3]

18 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think we are still developing our ability to say no.  We’ve been back in the Champ 3 seasons.

We aren’t losing players to mid-table / lower division  rivals, we are losing them to Champ Big-Boys, Premier League clubs (albeit recently promoted) and Champions League clubs.

The next stage of our development is to turn down offers from clubs in our division, we are a long way from fending off bids from Prem clubs.  We’ve bought a young player who is highly rated from our most closely comparable club financially - Ipswich, who have a much better history than us too.  That is a start.

I really think LJ had to fight really hard to keep them in the winter and then MA had a big influence in bringing in Kent and Diony.