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Have we gone off foreign players?


ashton_fan

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After making a packet on Kodjia last season's window was full of talk about foreign signings and we ended up getting Diedhiou, Pisano and Elliasson. Diedhiou didn't have enough games to judge but Elliasson has been a disappointment as was Engvall previously, the jury's still out on Pisano who also had injury problems. But the signing of Diony on loan in January was a wake-up call to LJ that maybe our foreign scouts aren't particularly reliable, he thought it was a real coup but it was more of a disaster which could have been worse if we'd signed him permanently the previous summer as we'd tried to do. It seems now the focus is again on players in this country, a mixture of tried and tested Championship players and younger players with promise from the lower leagues. Maybe we've seen the last of the foreigners for a while?

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After the successes with Kodjia and Fammy I doubt we have gone off foreign players.

However, what Engval and Diony particularly have shown is that it is easy for them not to work out as hoped. There are a few more variables than you would have with English/British players - new culture, different country, different style, pace and physicality to our football - and especially for younger players this could be too much of an adjustment.

I can see that younger foreign players still being on our radar as "ones for the future" giving them time to adapt to all the changes before they become exposed to first team football. While finances allow, as we are seeing this window, I think we might well prefer to go for known quantities that can integrate into the first team set up with little problem.

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3 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Weimann is Austrian......so it doesn’t look like we’ve ‘gone off foreign players’...

he started at Villa in 2007 ....plenty of time for integration. I know Ipswich and Tottenham had a deliberate policy of bringing in two players from the same country back in the day. Two from Argentina, Two from Holland etc...which must have been a lot easier for those players  to integrate when at least one other person shared their cultural values, language etc. 

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40 minutes ago, phantom said:

The whole ethos seems to have changed, the age demographic of signings is older than that of previous windows

Im not sure the ethos has changed at all, I think it's more to do with what we need at the time, but it's not as if we are buying 30+ year olds either.

We were always likely to loose some expirienced pros in this Window (as well as it being patently clear that a bit more expirience would be helpful after last season)  yet we have still stuck broadly to the Ethos, There isn't a single player that we have brought in that we won't be able to seel for significantly more than we paid should they do well, Wiemann if he can recover his form will court good interest from Prem sides as he has done it before at that level but hasn't managed to re-capture that form since leaving Villa. Webster if he has a season where our defence transitions from being largely god awful to a very solid back line, he's immediately worth significantly more than Flint due to his age.

So I don't think the Ethos has changed at all, it has been refined for the particular situation we are in currently, which is we have a lot of good young players but lack somewhat in the expirience department, so we have brought in expirience but retaine dthe ability for them all to be sold at a good profit should they do well.

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6 minutes ago, Spud55 said:

So I don't think the Ethos has changed at all, it has been refined for the particular situation we are in currently, which is we have a lot of good young players but lack somewhat in the expirience department, so we have brought in expirience but retaine dthe ability for them all to be sold at a good profit should they do well.

So basically we are agreeing

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2 hours ago, ashton_fan said:

After making a packet on Kodjia last season's window was full of talk about foreign signings and we ended up getting Diedhiou, Pisano and Elliasson. Diedhiou didn't have enough games to judge but Elliasson has been a disappointment as was Engvall previously, the jury's still out on Pisano who also had injury problems. But the signing of Diony on loan in January was a wake-up call to LJ that maybe our foreign scouts aren't particularly reliable, he thought it was a real coup but it was more of a disaster which could have been worse if we'd signed him permanently the previous summer as we'd tried to do. It seems now the focus is again on players in this country, a mixture of tried and tested Championship players and younger players with promise from the lower leagues. Maybe we've seen the last of the foreigners for a while?

Just a couple of questions;
FD , not enough games to judge? 32. games 13 goals, approaching 1 in 2 . I'd say success , although with a big turn around in staff it will be interesting to see how he goes this season.
Eliasson , you judge as a disappointment when he played half the games that FD did. I'm hoping he'll come through this year, needs more game time somewhere, possible loan?
Engvall was a strange one, homesick, didn't try , didn't fit who knows = cock up 
I think as people have said, we needed players who knew the division and could settle quickly with senior pros leaving. I hope we still scout all over Europe, and are a little more selective. More Kodjia's and less Engvall's in the future. 
All about the scouting and round pegs for round holes.

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1 hour ago, Spud55 said:

Im not sure the ethos has changed at all, I think it's more to do with what we need at the time, but it's not as if we are buying 30+ year olds either.

We were always likely to loose some expirienced pros in this Window (as well as it being patently clear that a bit more expirience would be helpful after last season)  yet we have still stuck broadly to the Ethos, There isn't a single player that we have brought in that we won't be able to seel for significantly more than we paid should they do well, Wiemann if he can recover his form will court good interest from Prem sides as he has done it before at that level but hasn't managed to re-capture that form since leaving Villa. Webster if he has a season where our defence transitions from being largely god awful to a very solid back line, he's immediately worth significantly more than Flint due to his age.

So I don't think the Ethos has changed at all, it has been refined for the particular situation we are in currently, which is we have a lot of good young players but lack somewhat in the expirience department, so we have brought in expirience but retaine dthe ability for them all to be sold at a good profit should they do well.

Thing is, the players we are signing now I believe wouldn't have been possible last  pre season.  We are now seen as a good club, progressing season on season,  despite what some think of last year.  Decent championship players are now within our reach, and was always part of the long term strategy. Aa we are now selling at vast profit on one or two, this allows our net to be looking at home players As well as still looking at foreign bargains. 

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1 minute ago, Joe hicks said:

Thing is, the players we are signing now I believe wouldn't have been possible last  pre season.  We are now seen as a good club, progressing season on season,  despite what some think of last year.  Decent championship players are now within our reach, and was always part of the long term strategy. Aa we are now selling at vast profit on one or two, this allows our net to be looking at home players As well as still looking at foreign bargains. 

That is indeed very possible.

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2 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

Just a couple of questions;
FD , not enough games to judge? 32. games 13 goals, approaching 1 in 2 . I'd say success , although with a big turn around in staff it will be interesting to see how he goes this season.
Eliasson , you judge as a disappointment when he played half the games that FD did. I'm hoping he'll come through this year, needs more game time somewhere, possible loan?
Engvall was a strange one, homesick, didn't try , didn't fit who knows = cock up 
I think as people have said, we needed players who knew the division and could settle quickly with senior pros leaving. I hope we still scout all over Europe, and are a little more selective. More Kodjia's and less Engvall's in the future. 
All about the scouting and round pegs for round holes.

FD has done ok but enough to justify his £5.3M fee? Not sure on that one. As for his goal ratio it has been 1 in 2.5 games, which would be good if he can do it again this season, let's wait and see.

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There are definitely bargains to be found in mainland Europe, but I think we've found it difficult to persuade good players to come over to play second-division football in England, unless they are playing for a big name, or we're paying for a big name.

Unless we can get a solid link with a top side (or do a Wolves and get favourable links with an agent) then I think we'll cool off on signing players based in Europe. We're cementing ourselves as a mid-table club, so there's a need to add experience and fix holes in the squad, especially with so many key players leaving.

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2 hours ago, ashton_fan said:

FD has done ok but enough to justify his £5.3M fee? Not sure on that one. As for his goal ratio it has been 1 in 2.5 games, which would be good if he can do it again this season, let's wait and see.

FD: 13 in 32 (1 in 2.46)

BR: 19 in 46 (1 in 2.42)

If Reid's worth 10m, then I'd say Fammy has justified his price tag.

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4 hours ago, Joe hicks said:

Thing is, the players we are signing now I believe wouldn't have been possible last  pre season.  We are now seen as a good club, progressing season on season,  despite what some think of last year.  Decent championship players are now within our reach, and was always part of the long term strategy. Aa we are now selling at vast profit on one or two, this allows our net to be looking at home players As well as still looking at foreign bargains. 

Agree with this. Whilst as fans we had to endure the second half of the season week in/week out, to an outsider we're a team that ran Man City close in a major cup semi-final and finished in the top half of the championship. 

 

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11 hours ago, ashton_fan said:

Diedhiou didn't have enough games to judge

How many games do you need to see this powerhouse play to know he's alright, better than alright. I couldn't give a fig about stats, but he barraged enough for me, bustled enough for me and did that Superman celebration enough for me to know I judge him as a hit. His control can be wonky but other touches are sublime. If it was all sublime he uddn't be playin fer us. I think 30 games or so is more than enough to see he's worth building around.

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Diedhiou was 12th top scorer in the league whilst missing nearly 3 months injured. 

Honest question, what more could he have done in order to be able to judge him?

He might have a slightly unorthodox (almost cumbersome) style, but surely his return qualifies him as a successful signing. 

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