Croatia v. England - Official Matchday Thread

[stephenkibby.]

2 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Absolutely gutted 

The pain doesn't last as long cause it's a group thing even the women or bloke with sandels and brown paper packages are pissed off for three minutes.

Now getting back to real football

[Cunnyfunt]

55 minutes ago, wendyredredrobin said:

Seriously, we have beaten Tunisia, Panama, Columbia (on pens) and Sweden.  Hardly world powerhouses are they.  We lost to Belgium, lost to Croatia and will no doubt lose to Belgium again.  Hardly a stunning WC performance really. We haven't had to play Germany, Brazil, Argentina, Spain, Italy or Holland, have we.  The feats of this mediocre team and manager have been massively overstated.

Yet we got further than all of them. What a strange post.

[Cowshed]

2 minutes ago, Jacki said:

Really disappointed to lose but in truth what did we really learn? 

We had the better of the first half and had 2 glorious chances (Kane and Lingard) to extend our lead. We weren’t good enough to take them. Against Tunisia and Sweden exactly the same thing happened but we we still had enough to beat two average sides regardless. Against a better team, we were punished. At some stage, it was always likely to happen.

From the start of the second half today, we were poor and conceded the midfield to a side with some terrific players. It was always likely to cost us. France proved last night that they can defend a lead in that situation but we just weren’t quite up to it. 

The big disappointment for me was the winning goal. Stones has had a superb tournament, but that one vital lapse in concentration that you always feared he might fall victim to ended up happening. I’m gutted for him but is it really a surprise?

 In conclusion, a really disappointing night. Let’s just hope we progress from here and don’t end up back in the dark ages like we have after the last few England semi finals. 

That football is a game of fine margins. Technique beat England … Again. If you are sloppy with possession, and England could barely string five, six passes together in the second half due to their insistence of always wanting to go forward impatiently the consequence are inevitable. After the first five minutes of the second half Croatia's equaliser was inevitable due to England's lack of composure on the football. 

Really disappointed to lose but in truth what did we really learn? And given the players (Young inexperienced) Gareth Southgate has it can be considered he has done very well. Its easy to get it all right with hindsight.

 

[Calculus]

52 minutes ago, wendyredredrobin said:

Seriously, we have beaten Tunisia, Panama, Columbia (on pens) and Sweden.  Hardly world powerhouses are they.  We lost to Belgium, lost to Croatia and will no doubt lose to Belgium again.  Hardly a stunning WC performance really. We haven't had to play Germany, Brazil, Argentina, Spain, Italy or Holland, have we.  The feats of this mediocre team and manager have been massively overstated.

Sorry to interrupt the gloom:

• Tunisia are the best team in Africa
• Sweden won the group that Germany finished bottom of
• We played our second string against Belgium (as did they, in a match that no-one was all that bothered about)
• Brazil and Argentina went out early
• Italy and Holland didn't even qualify for the finals.

Personally don't think we'd have beaten France but this has been a good effort for a previously underrated manager and his young team. 

Reasons to be cheerful, surely?

 

[pillred]

2 hours ago, downendcity said:

Absolutely correct 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

..............as long as you ignore the first 45 minutes, where we were on top, Croatia's all star midfield was not  in the game and had we taken the chances we created we could and should have been out of sight by half time. The one game where Kane left his shooting boots in the dressing room.

Once Croatia got a foothold in the game after half time their midfield control dominated and I think the tournament caught up with our young and inexperienced team.

Given our abject failure at the last few world cups with, on paper, far better and more experienced players, this team has nothing to be ashamed about. They, and the manager, have done themselves proud and made the country proud of their achievements.

A month ago who realistically thought they would get to the semi final and within 30 minutes of extra time of the final?

If this group of players is allowed to develop together and if we see other young players coming into the reckoning in the next couple of years then we could be serious contenders in 4 years time, although by then the weight of expectation might weigh them down , as it has for too many previous England teams.

 

lots of ifs buts and maybes, lets be brutally honest apart from the first half we were never really in the game ,who knows had we taken our chances first 25 minutes, but history will show we lost and that was the right result.

[pillred]

1 hour ago, wendyredredrobin said:

What happened at half time? Thought we had done enough to win the game and didn't respond to Croatias tactical change. 2nd best, 2nd strongest, 2nd most committed and 2nd to every ball after that.

and finished second says it all really.

[Erithacus]

Half a glass time. Either you will see a young and inexperienced team beginning to find their feet and gaining valuable tournament time, or you'll be worrying that we will not have such a good opportunity to win the damn thing again for ages.

Yes, there were a number of good points to take home that will stand us in good stead for the future, along with the certain fact that we are not up to being world champions yet and have more to work on. Will Southgate be left in charge for the long haul? Will he be able to call on more support from the game in general? Will the 'development' England players add to the mix well?

This tournament has had a somewhat surreal feel: with little real belief in the squad it was a surprise to see us play with such style and swagger - a way we haven't shown for many years now. Whilst that was sweeping us on and lending a refreshing flavour to our game, the reality is that we were riding a wave until the first half. Once Croatia worked out the formation's weaknesses we (perhaps predictably) reverted to type. Out we go.

Did we overachieve? Did we throw away a golden chance? Possibly both, if that's not mutually impossible. There can be no disputing that we had a good chance and that a second goal would have surely sent us to the final. But we didn't. Small Margins™.

I don't buy the argument that we might not have a better chance to get to the big game - in four years time we may just have a far better team. A team that has genuine talent and ability, above the rest of the world's nations. Then again, we may just have to start all over again...welcome to the madhouse of the Beautiful Game.

 

[JamesBCFC]

I think we were the better side for the first half, and there was a point where I thought we would cruise through.

But from about 10 minutes into the second half you could see our players were exhausted, and Croatia were the better side from then on.

Well done to them and good luck to them in the final.

I'm hoping people don't get carried away by this tournament when it comes to the next one though. We have, IMO likely exceeded the expectations that most people had of us.

 

 

A key thing for me in taking this result is that, unlike 2 years ago, you could tell these players had played their hearts out and left it all on the pitch. 

Well done Gareth Southgate and the boys. We may have fell short of the ultimate goal, but I was able to feel pride in the England football side for the first time in a long time.

[Redsox]

I still think chucking the Belgium game was a mistake. I think England would have given Brazil a decent game.... I still can't think that a team with pretentions of winning a world cup would worry about who they would play. Southgate is a smashing chap but reflects the lack of grit in the English national game. Don't think the great national sides have ever revelled in glorious defeat.

[RedRock]

Gareth did amazingly well and exceeded my expectations by a wide margin.

Just a pity though he hadn’t developed a Plan B in this game.

We ended up 5-3-2 with Croatia imposing themselves on us from the start of the second half. Think, once it was clear we couldn’t get back control of the game,  I might have taken Walker off (who had a decent game) and gone 4-4-1-1. We needed to start winnning the midfield back. As it was we started hoofing it forward when we gained possession as we were under so much pressure. 

 

[BobBobSuperBob]

25 minutes ago, Erithacus said:

Half a glass time. Either you will see a young and inexperienced team beginning to find their feet and gaining valuable tournament time, or you'll be worrying that we will not have such a good opportunity to win the damn thing again for ages.

Yes, there were a number of good points to take home that will stand us in good stead for the future, along with the certain fact that we are not up to being world champions yet and have more to work on. Will Southgate be left in charge for the long haul? Will he be able to call on more support from the game in general? Will the 'development' England players add to the mix well?

This tournament has had a somewhat surreal feel: with little real belief in the squad it was a surprise to see us play with such style and swagger - a way we haven't shown for many years now. Whilst that was sweeping us on and lending a refreshing flavour to our game, the reality is that we were riding a wave until the first half. Once Croatia worked out the formation's weaknesses we (perhaps predictably) reverted to type. Out we go.

Did we overachieve? Did we throw away a golden chance? Possibly both, if that's not mutually impossible. There can be no disputing that we had a good chance and that a second goal would have surely sent us to the final. But we didn't. Small Margins™.

I don't buy the argument that we might not have a better chance to get to the big game - in four years time we may just have a far better team. A team that has genuine talent and ability, above the rest of the world's nations. Then again, we may just have to start all over again...welcome to the madhouse of the Beautiful Game.

 

I think we may well do

I guarantee that at least some if not most  of the big hitters will have rebuilt 

I wasn’t as devastated as some stood in Turin in 90 thinking we’d be there again soon.........:..::

28 years on.........

 

 

Thought they put in a great effort and behaved magnificently and made people proud again

but if you want to see us lift a World Cup or even get to a final ....

Then it’s a massive opportunity missed sadly IMHO and , hope Imqrong , But It may  be a longer wait than you think to get close

[North London Red]

Just got back to my Moscow hotel room after a few post game beers in the hotel bar (it’s 3.45am local time, and nearly daylight outside). Haven’t read the whole thread, so forgive any duplication.  

The most disappointing thing for me is that it was a familiar failing that undid us - namely, an inability to keep a clean sheet. Once again we conceded two goals in a big tournament game. We did against Sweden in 2012 (but got away with it), Italy in 2014, Uruguay in 2014, and Iceland in 2016. And again tonight.

Clean sheets win you tournaments. Portugal didn’t give much away in the knockout stages 2 years ago, and they ended up winning the tournament. 

Against Iceland 2 years ago and again tonight, we took an early lead but we were unable to hold on. It might not be the most fashionable analysis of our failings, but once again the first thing we need to fix is our defensive unit. 6 games played and only one clean sheet. 

Get that fixed, and then worry about midfield and attack. 

[WhistleHappy]

4 hours ago, Redsox said:

Fair play to him or her of course

Looks like a Whales fan to me!

[havanatopia]

5 hours ago, wendyredredrobin said:

Seriously, we have beaten Tunisia, Panama, Columbia (on pens) and Sweden.  Hardly world powerhouses are they.  We lost to Belgium, lost to Croatia and will no doubt lose to Belgium again.  Hardly a stunning WC performance really. We haven't had to play Germany, Brazil, Argentina, Spain, Italy or Holland, have we.  The feats of this mediocre team and manager have been massively overstated.

Perhaps in the cold light of the next day you may feel you have been somewhat harsh. 

Matches are always 11 v 11. No team is hugely better than any other these days. The teams we played were no pushovers perhaps with the exception of Panama.

England have done very well in this world cup; basically a bunch of kids v men in most matches. In 2 years time we will be stronger and wiser and St Georges will continue to hugely improve all aspects of our game. I agree with another poster that England may have just put down a marker to be at least a regular last 8 team.

[Phileas Fogg]

Strange game. Unfortunately in the second half we lost the midfield battle which ultimately was our downfall.

We lack quality replacement for Lingard/Alli so if they’re not impacting the game - as they weren’t in the second half - we don’t have much to swap them with. Shame Ox got injured before the tournament as we probably could’ve done with him.

I had a horrible feeling when Kane missed that chance in the first half we’d regret that. Had we gone in 2-0 at halftime I’m certain we’d be talking about the final now. The epitome of ‘fine margins’.

On one hand we absolutely exceeded expectation which is great - but this tournament felt like a perfect storm for us with all of the factors going in our favour and an opportunity we’ve missed big time.

Very enjoyable tournament for us though, shame we have to play the 3rd place playoff. Funny how we’ve ended up with two pointless games with Belgium in the same tournament.

[McNasty Filth]

7 hours ago, tts_city said:

Always looked the weakest link, I would rather play JB for England than him, I would also start Pack over Henderson but thats just me 

Thankfully the young kiddie coming through at Arsenal looks like he’ll be a great player, think mateland-Nile’s is the name. 

Would class Young as one of those old school English players like Carlton Palmer, remember him. Can run and cross a ball, but technically shambolic, the words bag and cement spring to mind.

Think in the next 3-4 years you’ll see much more technically proficient players coming through for us, and that can only be a good thing when it comes to ball retention that was badly needed in the second half. Look what the Japs were able to do with limited natural ability against Belgium. Thought they were superb technically and in there thought process, almost zen like.

[Jacki]

6 hours ago, Cowshed said:

That football is a game of fine margins. Technique beat England … Again. If you are sloppy with possession, and England could barely string five, six passes together in the second half due to their insistence of always wanting to go forward impatiently the consequence are inevitable. After the first five minutes of the second half Croatia's equaliser was inevitable due to England's lack of composure on the football. 

Really disappointed to lose but in truth what did we really learn? And given the players (Young inexperienced) Gareth Southgate has it can be considered he has done very well. Its easy to get it all right with hindsight.

 

I totally agree that we did very well in the tournament overall. And we didn’t give a horrendous account of ourselves last night either. Our young team just weren’t quite good or clinical enough to take a golden opportunity.

Hopefully they’ll all get plenty of action for their clubs over the next 2 years, continue to improve, and have a real go at Euro 2020. 

[054123]

8 hours ago, rednotblue said:

Lost the midfield battle second half sadly. It doesn’t quite work with Lingard and Ali in Midfield.

mind you first 45 was damn excellent and we should have taken on of the chances created.

We panicked second half and that invited pressure as in to extra time we started to get a grip on midfield again.

Kane has been playing deeper but not sure why. Is very streetwise in buying free kicks and you can tell the class as he always seems to find that bit more time.

Back three is a work in progress one of them needs to step out in to midfield will help if we persist with Alli and Lingard.

Need to find a l eft wing back and not convinced Sterling has ‘it’ at international level.

Need to remember we’re a footballing lightweight and this could be a fluke. I hope not

dare to dream it could be the start of England being regular last quarter or semi finalists.

 

The midfield is the problem for England.

The amount of times in this tournament that our back 3 have had to play all the football because the Ali lingard and sterling are miles away is unbelievable. It puts so much pressure on them. They are not brave enough or strong enough to drop. 10/20 yard pick the ball up and play from there. 

It puts us under so much pressure as there is never any real outlet. 

I don’t mind basically playing with 4 strikers if that’s your wish, but they have to offer far more than they do in both goals and and far more importantly, ball retention in the final third.

So few goals from good, creative open play speaks volumes.

3 show ponies who either have to drastically improve or one or two will have to make way as we try something else.

Very proud of the teams effort and nobody is a ‘bad’ player, but that is the obvious flaw with our system 

[BRISTOL86]

^^^^ Spot on. 

[TV Tom]

I’m afraid Southgate’s team selection let us down, why did he feel the need to play the same 11 for the 5 games that really mattered? Ali obviously wasn’t fit, how he sees Young as a better option than Rose was baffling, some of the players looked exhausted last night ( Kane in particular and should of been substituted) hopefully Southgate won’t  get into the mindset that certain players are undropable like so many previous England managers, in saying all that it’s been an enjoyable ride which makes a change to the usual rubbish we have to put up with, fair play to them all for getting the Country United 

[Phileas Fogg]

Seeing as we’ve done well at youth level recently - will be interesting to see whether any of the stars from lower age groups get a chance now.

People like Sessengon and Foden being the obvious ones.

Anyone else out there who might break through?

[Major Isewater]

It feels a bit strange to wake up this morning and realise that the dream of winning the World Cup is over .

It was a great journey, pride restored in English football and hope for the future.

At least now you vicious buggers can stop torturing us with your club v country dilemmas ! 

City every time .

Screw history let's get this party started.

We are going up .

You heard it here first .

[downendcity]

7 hours ago, pillred said:

lots of ifs buts and maybes, lets be brutally honest apart from the first half we were never really in the game ,who knows had we taken our chances first 25 minutes, but history will show we lost and that was the right result.

 

Looking at it the other way, if we are brutally honest then apart from the second half Croatia were never really in the game and should have been dead and buried by half time!

Overall the right and best  team won and it looked like the tournament caught up with the England players. Ali never seemed fit after his injury and you can't carry a passenger in midfield up against a midfield with the quality and experience that Croatia had.

 

 

 

[Robbored]

 The why's and therefores don't really matter now that were're out but it's been an fun ride nonetheless.

i thoroughly enjoyed England's run to the last four and am obviously disappointed that we lost but England got further than I was expecting and Southgate and his squad deserve much credit.

The chant went up in the club "they're coming home"..............

[DT The Optimist]

8 hours ago, Chairman Mao said:

Harry Winks is a good prospect. Can see a midfield of Winks, Henderson, Ali/Lingard/an other and Sterling in the 2020 Euros.

Add on Grealish who will come through if his Tottenham move happens, plus the Fulham lad and we actually start to see some real talent on horizon 

[Red-Robbo]

8 hours ago, AshtonGreat said:

Wilshere is past it. I would've simply brought in Loftus Cheek for Delle Ali, and Vardy for Sterling. Simples

I don't think Vardy did a thing in Russia to justify his being there.

Sterling, despite his lack of goals, constantly worried the Croat defence, could beat any man on the pitch for pace, and kept it up their end. We started to see a lot more of the ball in our half when he went off.

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 minute ago, Red-Robbo said:

I don't think Vardy did a thing in Russia to justify his being there.

Sterling, despite his lack of goals, constantly worried the Croat defence, could beat any man on the pitch for pace, and kept it up their end. We started to see a lot more of the call in our half when he went off.

Same as those banging the drum for Rashford

Lots Of potential , has a trick , flashes here and there of real talent but his movement isn’t the most astute and he  isn’t anywhere near the overall player Sterling is yet IMHO

[Kingswoodactor]

50 minutes ago, DT The Optimist said:

Add on Grealish who will come through if his Tottenham move happens, plus the Fulham lad and we actually start to see some real talent on horizon 

Don’t forget Phil Foden, who Pep and Man City rate highly. He could be that creative ACM we’re desperate for. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Disappointed, but proud.

Proud of this team, this manager- no bigheads, a great spirit.

Deep down, this was a game I was wary of- their Right back who the press said were missing Vrsaljko, got assist for their equaliser. The fact that a back 3 was part of Croatian football for a long time also made me cautious because that's a system they would know the strengths and weaknesses of a fair bit.

Plus, they were just that bit more experienced and better- had a feeling it may come to the midfield battle- but had Kane put us 2 up...

Disappointment but proud sums it up for me- we should do well in the Euros in 2 years and next WC, this experience should really stand us in good stead.

[The Batman]

Looking at the ages of the England Squad, you'd think Cahill, Vardy and Young wont be in Qatar in four years time.

Looking at players now to replace them, immediately, you turn to Lascelles (many thought he should have gone this time), Abraham and Sessegnon - those are 3 quality replacements for those three.

Walker will be 32 but playing as a centre back may prolong his career. Delph i do not think will be doing anyway.

Plus think of all the unearthed talent that could come in that time. Foden at Man City, Sancho at Dortmund, some who we've never even heard of as we write our posts today.

The English youth teams have been doing excellent things over the last few years, hopefully the senior side can build on that over the next few tournaments.

Saying all this though, we will never get a batter chance to make a World Cup final. The Dutch and Italians did not even qualify. Germany went out in the groups and then the best sides knocked each other out on the other side of the draw (bar Spain) - a strange but entertaining World Cup.