Bristol City WFC

[steveybadger]

2 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

The oddity, if there is one, is this.

As part of the WSL restructuring, all clubs if they wanted to be in WSL1 had to go full time, and pay full time wages accordingly. BCWFC applied for, and got a place in, WSL1 on this basis.

However, what I think may have happened is that the new, full time budget does not differ massively from the former, quasi semi-pro budget. IIRC, the head coach job was advertised with a salary of c£50k. Pretty much peanuts and now Willie Kirk is assistant at Man Utd ladies.

So, I don’t think SL has lost interest, more that he hasn’t (or whoever is responsible hasn’t) kept their finger on the pulse enough and assumed last years budget will get you last years squad. It won’t.

FWIW I back the women’s game/team wholeheartedly. As a father of a 9 year old who holds a ST at city, I can tell you the ladies inspire the next generation of female fans as much as the blokes do - if not more so - and that cross pollinates to better crowds for BCFC

I have a 10 yo daughter who sadly isn't yet inspired by City, but certainly has been by women's cricket. Trying to say it isn't making money as a reason to stop funding it is ignorant. Plus it works both ways - if just a proportion of girls take up sport into adulthood the cost savings to the NHS alone make it worthwhile.

[JamesBCFC]

44 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Blimey! This thread has descended into a fair few personal insults and proper disagreements ... @JamesBCFC we are seriously being undermined again here...I’m not sure we’ve ever sunk to these depths, and it’s probably too hot for a row, but our ‘spats’ are in serious danger of being consigned to the annals of history if this stuff keeps occurring! Fancy a tame disagreement?! Or shall we just keep our dignity and move on through this calm Sunday evening?!

Don't ******* start for **** sake you ******* ****!

 

(Dont worry, all were typed as asterisks)

[Silvio Dante]

7 hours ago, ncnsbcfc said:

Thanks Silvio. 

I just think it's really strange that we've done all this work for the reapplication Then seem to have given up on having the team to keep us in the WSL.

I thought having a Bristol team in a top division, would be something to invest in. 

Is there relegation from the WSL this season? Man Utd a cert to go up of course. I fear the women's team drifting off into the lower leagues unfortunately.

Yeah, me as well.

If you’re going to have a women’s team at this time, you have to acknowledge it’s going to be a loss leader. Transfer fees are diddly, and the attendance figures don’t wash the faces of the wages, so it has to be funded by the wider F.C. 

The reason, though, why teams like Man Utd are now taking it seriously is that there is a bit of traction - more media coverage, steady uptick in attendances etc. It’s marketing if you like as opposed to owt else and MU probably realised that without a women’s team, it was one area where Man City held an ability to get wider F.C. fans over them.

Dont see that as an issue here as no way Wally will fund any kind of competitive WFC, but it remains that we’re in but not really in.

As for relegation - yes there is. I don’t know if 1 or 2 places - if 1, likely to be Yeovil (who had to raise £350k to compete IIRC)

[Red Army 75]

8 hours ago, 1bristolcity said:

That is way OTT. Disgusting retort.

Yep was over the top. Apologies to who I offended. 

[Eddie Hitler]

Notts County revealed the true state of finances of women's football when they closed their successful, on the pitch, women's team in 2017:

to operate Notts County Ladies for the current season was going to cost us approximately £500,000 - a figure principally made up of player and coaching salaries.

"Our total projected incoming revenue from attendances and sponsorship was £28,000.

 

Women's football is great, get out there and play, but it has no more place being a paid, professional game than men's lacrosse.

[Dollymarie]

I’ve hidden a bunch of posts. I think it’s obvious why, given the amount of reports received. If you can’t be civil, then log off for the night maybe yeah?  

Thanks. 

[Redshorts]

Well said Dolly, can’t believe to abuse spoons received on here, defending a sport that is close to his heart as he said his daughter plays football herself. Maybe he sees it has a pathway for her to be a pro footballer. By the sounds of it for a team she supports and watches.  

Women’s football in the last decade has come on fantastically, it’s a shame the support is not there from fellow reds. Women’s football is going the way of men’s football in terms of money. Clubs are spending more on players, so good players Bristol city have, will always be moved on. As city’s stance seems to be just like the men’s a few years back buy young unproven players from lower league and hope they perform well. I wish them all the luck. Just cause SL is not spending doesn’t mean he doesn’t support them.  

Then there’s the fact that people on here feel it’s exceptable to be living in the dark ages like Red Army! Who think it’s ok to insult women’s football, next he will be insulting Bristol City disabled football! 

If people got nothing better to say then say nothing! By all means have banter but not in a abusive or insulting way. I for one will be taking my family along a little more next season to watch city ladies and cheering them on. 

[Judda]

37 minutes ago, Dollymarie said:

I’ve hidden a bunch of posts. I think it’s obvious why, given the amount of reports received. If you can’t be civil, then log off for the night maybe yeah?  

Thanks. 

Or learn to handle your Cider better!

[Red Army 75]

25 minutes ago, Redshorts said:

Well said Dolly, can’t believe to abuse spoons received on here, defending a sport that is close to his heart as he said his daughter plays football herself. Maybe he sees it has a pathway for her to be a pro footballer. By the sounds of it for a team she supports and watches.  

Women’s football in the last decade has come on fantastically, it’s a shame the support is not there from fellow reds. Women’s football is going the way of men’s football in terms of money. Clubs are spending more on players, so good players Bristol city have, will always be moved on. As city’s stance seems to be just like the men’s a few years back buy young unproven players from lower league and hope they perform well. I wish them all the luck. Just cause SL is not spending doesn’t mean he doesn’t support them.  

Then there’s the fact that people on here feel it’s exceptable to be living in the dark ages like Red Army! Who think it’s ok to insult women’s football, next he will be insulting Bristol City disabled football! 

If people got nothing better to say then say nothing! By all means have banter but not in a abusive or insulting way. I for one will be taking my family along a little more next season to watch city ladies and cheering them on. 

Disabled really. Because I don’t think women’s football is a financial gold mine . Ok

[Judda]

I think it'd get much better support if it was moved to Ashton Gate on a Friday night...

[Natchfever]

15 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

The oddity, if there is one, is this.

As part of the WSL restructuring, all clubs if they wanted to be in WSL1 had to go full time, and pay full time wages accordingly. BCWFC applied for, and got a place in, WSL1 on this basis.

However, what I think may have happened is that the new, full time budget does not differ massively from the former, quasi semi-pro budget. IIRC, the head coach job was advertised with a salary of c£50k. Pretty much peanuts and now Willie Kirk is assistant at Man Utd ladies.

So, I don’t think SL has lost interest, more that he hasn’t (or whoever is responsible hasn’t) kept their finger on the pulse enough and assumed last years budget will get you last years squad. It won’t.

FWIW I back the women’s game/team wholeheartedly. As a father of a 9 year old who holds a ST at city, I can tell you the ladies inspire the next generation of female fans as much as the blokes do - if not more so - and that cross pollinates to better crowds for BCFC

Why don't more women watch the woman's game then ?

[Phileas Fogg]

3 hours ago, Red Army 75 said:

Disabled really. Because I don’t think women’s football is a financial gold mine . Ok

Personally I have no interest in women's football and can completely see your point from a purely business point of view. 

I think there is a place for it, the club - as part of the community - needs to try and get people of all ages, sexes and backgrounds involved in football. If that means making a loss (within reason), I think that's ok.

[Buckeyed]

16 hours ago, Red Army 75 said:

If you got an investment that doesn’t make any money. What do you do. 

Is the mens team making a profit for Steve Lansdown so far?

[Silvio Dante]

12 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

Why don't more women watch the woman's game then ?

Not being a woman I may not be the best person to answer that!

However, my view is that the benefit to the club is in marketing to future generations of fans (a la @Phileas Fogg point above). If you’re talking women of (say) middle age who hitherto have had no interest in football - and more importantly being told they can’t do it - then a BCFC women’s team is in no way going to all of a sudden convert them. What it will help with is the younger girls by showing them something that’s attainable and, to coin a phrase, that they “can”.

There is no way on earth the women’s game will ever compete with the men’s game from financially or in attendances. But as a vehicle for getting girls interested, it’s doing its job.

So, my answer is that you have to wait for the generation of the “inspired” to go regularly to question why women aren’t going, if that is the case by then.

If we started a men’s netball team from scratch, would you go if you’d never been interested in netball before?

 

[handsofclay]

I quite agree with those parents on here who state that Bristol City Women are inspiring their daughters to take up football, just as when we were boys we dreamt of playing for Bristol City and also dreamt of Valerie Singleton and Raquel Welch. That is fantastic. However, I still cannot see why the women are deserving of being full time professionals. Surely, they should love playing for Bristol City so much that they would do so for £50 a match, a fee far more in line with what is being generated by BCWFC. If these women, not only at Bristol City, aren't prepared to play for that and would give up playing football because of it then it would speak volumes for why attendances are so low (and mainly comprising of children).

Men played for decade upon decade not being paid what they were worth in terms of a decent wage (while performing in front of tens of thousands) and many men now play non league in front of bigger crowds of adults than the women basically for beer money where the women obtain a full-time wage. Surely, these daughters would still be inspired by these women if they weren't full-time pros and would want to play for Bristol City Women? 

When I was a kid my heroes were John Galley, Gerry Gow, Gerry Sharpe and Dickie Rooks. If someone had told me at the time that they were only receiving peanuts for playing I wouldn't have stopped dreaming of growing up to be like them and aspired to being a tree surgeon or Henry Kissinger's butler instead. No, it would have made not one iota of difference.

Surely, the love of the game should suffice. When that is there it creates a positive energy, that can create interest and crowds and generate more income that can then be routed towards the players. That is what happened in men's football. In women's football it is being manufactured to make it seem like it is successful when it clearly isn't. I dare say that these daughters, upon reaching adulthood, won't be watching the women's game (unless they are players), they will still be watching the men at Ashton Gate. 

[PeterStyvarsRightFoot]

18 hours ago, ncnsbcfc said:

Very strange pre season for the women's team. All of the top players seemed to have left to be replaced by mainly Millwall and Yeovil players. I see the last one Millie Darrow has just gone to Reading as well

Has SL given up a bit on the women's football team? It seems that the team is only going in one direction now.

Lansdown’s certainly not given up on the women’s club, they’ve received their first full time status. 

They have a good core of younger players coming through and with the restructuring of WSL1 and WSL2, it enables the chance for those younger ones grow now.

the likes of Lauren hemp moving on to bigger and better things whilst poppy Wilson will now be a main stay is fantastic.

millwall have some very good players and poaching them would be a shout as do Yeovil.

 

very big future for the women’s game in 10-20 years. Long term structure is the aim of the game 

[Spoons]

35 minutes ago, handsofclay said:

I quite agree with those parents on here who state that Bristol City Women are inspiring their daughters to take up football, just as when we were boys we dreamt of playing for Bristol City and also dreamt of Valerie Singleton and Raquel Welch. That is fantastic. However, I still cannot see why the women are deserving of being full time professionals. Surely, they should love playing for Bristol City so much that they would do so for £50 a match, a fee far more in line with what is being generated by BCWFC. If these women, not only at Bristol City, aren't prepared to play for that and would give up playing football because of it then it would speak volumes for why attendances are so low (and mainly comprising of children).

Men played for decade upon decade not being paid what they were worth in terms of a decent wage (while performing in front of tens of thousands) and many men now play non league in front of bigger crowds of adults than the women basically for beer money where the women obtain a full-time wage. Surely, these daughters would still be inspired by these women if they weren't full-time pros and would want to play for Bristol City Women? 

When I was a kid my heroes were John Galley, Gerry Gow, Gerry Sharpe and Dickie Rooks. If someone had told me at the time that they were only receiving peanuts for playing I wouldn't have stopped dreaming of growing up to be like them and aspired to being a tree surgeon or Henry Kissinger's butler instead. No, it would have made not one iota of difference.

Surely, the love of the game should suffice. When that is there it creates a positive energy, that can create interest and crowds and generate more income that can then be routed towards the players. That is what happened in men's football. In women's football it is being manufactured to make it seem like it is successful when it clearly isn't. I dare say that these daughters, upon reaching adulthood, won't be watching the women's game (unless they are players), they will still be watching the men at Ashton Gate. 

Just to clear one thing up. A professional women's team player in the super league earns £18,000 a year. Top earners Steph Houghton of man city earns 60k a year and she's England captain.

Not saying they should earn more but don't compare the men's professional game with the women's professional game.

[brady bunch]

Really hope the club continues to back the girls team, we need to stay at the top table, as it will only grow and grow. 

Lots of girls aged 10-20 now have grown up with footy as their main game (I have two daughters in that bracket), they currently play the game, but are the fans of the future. as well.

[handsofclay]

40 minutes ago, Spoons said:

Just to clear one thing up. A professional women's team player in the super league earns £18,000 a year. Top earners Steph Houghton of man city earns 60k a year and she's England captain.

Not saying they should earn more but don't compare the men's professional game with the women's professional game.

I'm not comparing the men's game at all with the women's, I'm just saying that 18K a year is about 16.5K more per annum than they would be earning if not propped up by the men's game.

I am saying that if men, even the top players, were only getting 1.5K per year they would still play part time as many do. So why, in this age of equality, do women need to be subsidized by the men's game? This isn't knocking women at all. There are plenty of women attending matches at AG who wouldn't attend a women's match and their money is thus subsidizing the women's game too and they might not be happy about it. 

I respect your opinions and you all make some good points but it still comes across that these women need to be paid a full-time income to play for Bristol City when I am arguing that what they generate etc far from merits that, and surely if these women loved the game there would still be a Bristol City Women's team whether they were being paid or not.

 

[Erithacus]

This thread seems to have spilt into another direction.

The original point was that the BCFC Womens team appears to have been losing many of the top players during the close season. No doubt about that! The team had several worthy players that were lured away by bigger clubs (and wages, probably). There can't be much debate that the money invested by the Premier sides will be far above ours, and therefore we must recognise that football works at this level just the same way as the mens. The sudden arrival of Man Utd into WSL2 has caused a lot of people to take their dreams elsewhere, with not only the gaffer but established first-teamers going there now. I am sure other, smaller, clubs have also experienced this draining.

No question that the money going into Womens football exceeds income, but that may well be the only way for it to progress. The FA will be happy for the standards to rise - particularly when it comes to international participation. Note that the League, Cups and international departments are all run by the FA - they don't have the three-headed dog that is the men's game. No Premiership monster to bare its larger fangs here.

However, I am also concerned that the core of the City Women's side is not as good as previous seasons now, and the trickle of new blood brought in may not compensate. It has not quite been an Edmundson-esque exodus, but not far off it. The talent coming through the academy will need to be given good time and reassurance before they can compete at the top level. Hopes rest on young shoulders this season more than ever. It will be difficult to fully appreciate just how inspiring the team is to local girls; the long term aim will take much more time than money.

The prospects for both the City sides have a strange similarity about them: the best players have gone, leaving a distinctly less optimistic approach to the new season. Are the same forces at work in both games?

 

In response:

Eddie Hitler - the Notts County side were taken over from the old Lincoln City, which already had massive debts and which the new owners took on board in full knowledge.

 

1 hour ago, handsofclay said:

dreamt of Valerie Singleton and Raquel Welch

I didn't need to have those images in my mind right now. Taken me on a completely different tangent. Those gentlemen of a certain age, etc...

[Natchfever]

3 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Personally I have no interest in women's football and can completely see your point from a purely business point of view. 

I think there is a place for it, the club - as part of the community - needs to try and get people of all ages, sexes and backgrounds involved in football. If that means making a loss (within reason), I think that's ok.

I think the club should get involved also but why that involves running a pro side having such limited appeal I have no idea.

If the club is happy to make a loss on womens football then sponsor local league sides at all levels and age groups, send the players and coaches out to train with them - even though that is of course sexist when that doesn't happen for male clubs.

In essence, providing a pathway for a woman to earn a living as a footballer doesn't benefit the club so far as I can see. If I had a daughter with such aspirations I might see it differently, but I would rightly be called myopic.

There has been enough criticism of the Academy over the years, but plenty of graduates have represented the first team, saving the club on transfer fees, and also generated revenue for the club. Thats why it runs under 9's upwards when only a fraction will make it as a pro.

I see plenty of women at AG on matchday, but surely only a small percentage of them watch the women's side. If they are allowed to think its uninteresting, then I reserve the right to feel likewise without being labelled a dinosaur or sexist.

All those who support the idea of a professional womens side representing BCFC should ensure that they attend matches, and encourage others to join them. The day that regular crowds in their thousands watch them, or transfer revenue is generated is the day the club should take things more seriously.

[Cowshed]

6 hours ago, Loon plage said:

I think the club should get involved also but why that involves running a pro side having such limited appeal I have no idea.

If the club is happy to make a loss on womens football then sponsor local league sides at all levels and age groups, send the players and coaches out to train with them - even though that is of course sexist when that doesn't happen for male clubs.

In essence, providing a pathway for a woman to earn a living as a footballer doesn't benefit the club so far as I can see. If I had a daughter with such aspirations I might see it differently, but I would rightly be called myopic.

There has been enough criticism of the Academy over the years, but plenty of graduates have represented the first team, saving the club on transfer fees, and also generated revenue for the club. Thats why it runs under 9's upwards when only a fraction will make it as a pro.

I see plenty of women at AG on matchday, but surely only a small percentage of them watch the women's side. If they are allowed to think its uninteresting, then I reserve the right to feel likewise without being labelled a dinosaur or sexist.

All those who support the idea of a professional womens side representing BCFC should ensure that they attend matches, and encourage others to join them. The day that regular crowds in their thousands watch them, or transfer revenue is generated is the day the club should take things more seriously.

If Steve Lansdown wants Bristol Sport to be part of the Community and inclusive then it is quite right to run a women's side and associated girls teams.

The above does benefit the club. 

 

[Natchfever]

9 hours ago, Cowshed said:

If Steve Lansdown wants Bristol Sport to be part of the Community and inclusive then it is quite right to run a women's side and associated girls teams.

The above does benefit the club. 

 

How though Cowshed  ?- genuine question.If the club wants to be part of the community and inclusive then all sectors need to be considered, particularly those who may feel isolated in their everyday lives.

As I said previous;y, I have no issue with the club applying resources and money to girls/womens football or the game locally across both genders, but why adopt the pretence that the "elite" are worth the expense of full time coaches and players, when it seems patently clear that the vast majority of Bristol City supporting girls and women have absolutely no interest in womens football at the highest level as evidenced by the lousy crowds ?

Most boys/girls and men/women are non,moderate, or simply crap footballers. Their love of the club is limited to watching their first team. They feel included without having the club set up teams for them to play in, and bring in people from outside of their community to make the numbers up.

Just my opinion, and I accept others see it your way.

[Steve Watts]

On 22/07/2018 at 19:55, Red Army 75 said:

If you got an investment that doesn’t make any money. What do you do. Carry on because it’s women’s football. No you bin it because it’s not making a single penny . Our club is unsustainable. Let alone a team who get 3/4 hundred max

So what do you propose SL does with the men's team then?  It can be reasonably inferred from your point that the men's team should be binned of because it's not making a single penny.

The women's team does not make the men's less sustainable and has no bearing on FFP, so in reality your argument is about as watertight as a stadium being sold in Whorefield.

[Cowshed]

1 hour ago, Loon plage said:

 (fans)How though Cowshed  ?- genuine question.If the club wants to be part of the community and inclusive then all sectors need to be considered, particularly those who may feel isolated in their everyday lives.

As I said previous;y, I have no issue with the club applying resources and money to girls/womens football or the game locally across both genders, but why adopt the pretence that the "elite" are worth the expense of full time coaches and players, when it seems patently clear that the vast majority of Bristol City supporting girls and women have absolutely no interest in womens football at the highest level as evidenced by the lousy crowds ?

Most boys/girls and men/women are non,moderate, or simply crap footballers. Their love of the club is limited to watching their first team. They feel included without having the club set up teams for them to play in, and bring in people from outside of their community to make the numbers up.

Just my opinion, and I accept others see it your way.

Steve Lansdown is applying resources and running a women's football. Women's football costs the club how much? Little to nothing.

Bristol City football club in club sense is a club that plays football and creates opportunity to play football for its community. In European models that community is its members (fans) who also have opportunity to take part in the clubs sporting activity, a loose parallel to Bristol Sport. If you think a football club is simply not a business but a reflection of its community it is quite right that it is inclusive.

In time alongside the burgeoning women's game, a aspect of football that is growing faster than the males element of football crowds will improve but that is not my premise for doing something if I (yourself/others?) consider this is a club and not a business. If it was a business its nigh on twenty years since BCFC made a profit.

I have had the opportunity to visit Man City's Etihad campus, a club criticised for how it uses its money … They are brilliant at being a club. They run women's, kids, oaps, disability, amputee and more teams for the community. For doing as he does I applaud Steve Lansdown and hope he continues in the direction set by many other football clubs.

[supercidered]

On ‎22‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 19:58, Spoons said:

It's not all about money. You haven't got a clue what bcfc women team does. 

My daughter actually see's a pathway to play professional football as a women and that's because of the women's super league and investment in it.

You get back to your pint on your own in the Wellington mate. 

Embarrassing !

Aark at eee / er

[phantom]

On 22/07/2018 at 19:03, ncnsbcfc said:

Very strange pre season for the women's team. All of the top players seemed to have left to be replaced by mainly Millwall and Yeovil players. I see the last one Millie Darrow has just gone to Reading as well

Has SL given up a bit on the women's football team? It seems that the team is only going in one direction now.

City have just signed an England (U20) international left back from Liverpool - bucking the trend?

[View from the Dolman]

7 minutes ago, phantom said:

City have just signed an England (U20) international left back from Liverpool - bucking the trend?

And Katie Rood, a New Zealand international from Juventus...

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/rood-becomes-a-vixen/

[reddogkev]

I've long held the view that the games should be played at Ashton Gate.  A Bristol City football club should play there.  Open the middle of the lower Lansdown, have a bit of live music suitable for the crowd, sell suitable merchandise for each game, and I'm sure it would become more popular each time.

[Natchfever]

1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

Steve Lansdown is applying resources and running a women's football. Women's football costs the club how much? Little to nothing.

Bristol City football club in club sense is a club that plays football and creates opportunity to play football for its community. In European models that community is its members (fans) who also have opportunity to take part in the clubs sporting activity, a loose parallel to Bristol Sport. If you think a football club is simply not a business but a reflection of its community it is quite right that it is inclusive.

In time alongside the burgeoning women's game, a aspect of football that is growing faster than the males element of football crowds will improve but that is not my premise for doing something if I (yourself/others?) consider this is a club and not a business. If it was a business its nigh on twenty years since BCFC made a profit.

I have had the opportunity to visit Man City's Etihad campus, a club criticised for how it uses its money … They are brilliant at being a club. They run women's, kids, oaps, disability, amputee and more teams for the community. For doing as he does I applaud Steve Lansdown and hope he continues in the direction set by many other football clubs.

I don't disagree with much of what you say Cowshed, and your experience at Manchester City echos the view I made about all sections of society being included. My issue is simply the running of a professional team, and if the game is truly burgeoning I would suggest that is more at grass roots level than the top of womens football because despite all the patronising backing the BBC amongst others gives it the interest doesn't seem to be there in this country.

If Steve Lansdown wanted to fully support a womens professional team, bearing in mind they are/were top flight, then he would have paid to keep the best players and bring more in at a relatively low cost. The fact we appear according to the OP to be recruiting lower standard players people from outside the area (how is that inclusive of the local community by the way?) tells me that the club doesn't believe in the highest level either - certainly not at present.