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How long does LJ have?


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Just for facts, since the win v Reading after Xmas 2017, we have:

P28 W4 D10 L10

Since the new year:

P27 W4 D10 L9

League since Reading:

17/18 Season P22 W4 D8 L10 Pts 20

18/19 Season P2 W0 D2 L0 Pts 2

Cup 17/18 Season P3 W0 D0 L3

Cup 18/19 Season P1 W0 D0 L1

Our wins came against:

QPR, Sheffield Wednesday, Ipswich, Birmingham 

If you combine 17/18 with 18/19 it doesn’t make good reading.

18/19 is a small sample, my “happy clapper” view is that we are unbeaten...and I think this team’s confidence will grow when we are unbeaten.  Middlesbrough is a very tough game and at the end of it we will either have 2, 3 or 5 points, and reactions on here will mirror one of those 3 totals.  I would be happy if we got a point (I hope we win).  Boro and Forest are likely to be in the mix, and would hopefully show we are a tough(ish) nut to crack at home.  Good home form avoids any relegation battles unless you really are dire away, and provides a platform for going on unbeaten runs.

I don’t fully subscribe to the view that 2 games (3 with cup) is too early to panic....you can see signs within those 2 games of issues.  The problem is only focussing on the bad things, there have been good things too.  Had we lost from two or three-nil that would be very different, but we haven’t.  LJ is under a bit of pressure because his less-likely starters didn’t do enough against lower league opposition to push the more-likely starters into better performances.

Saturday should be my first game of the season, so looking forward to seeing some of the new players and also whether we’ve improved some of the problem areas of last season.  You would hope the players (here from last season) are motivated to stop Flint having a happy return, and you’d hope LJ has instilled a bit of “we all hate Pulis” mentality into all of them, especially the new boys.

 

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12 hours ago, mrevans said:

People are concerned about our form since Christmas. Our run isn't particularly encouraging at the moment so I think it's fair to have a benchmark of when the concern escalates to something more. After 10 games, I'd hope we're on between 14 - 17 points. I think that would be a decent start!

Christ - out of interest where do you believe those points will come from? In the first 10 games we have among them 

Forest, Boro, Villa, Swansea, West Brom and then 2 games against newly promoted sides with momentum, Wigan and Blackburn.

I see 9 points out of that lot of games maximum 

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2 hours ago, Rob k said:

Christ - out of interest where do you believe those points will come from? In the first 10 games we have among them 

Forest, Boro, Villa, Swansea, West Brom and then 2 games against newly promoted sides with momentum, Wigan and Blackburn.

I see 9 points out of that lot of games maximum 

If we can come through Aug and Sept with an unbeaten home record, we’ll have done well. That will have given us a foundation. 

Got to take the points wherever they come. I won’t predict individual results but can see us with around 11 points. Something like w2 d5 l3. We’ll see. I certainly don’t see us having 15+. 

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3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Just for facts, since the win v Reading after Xmas 2017, we have:

P28 W4 D10 L10

Since the new year:

P27 W4 D10 L9

League since Reading:

17/18 Season P22 W4 D8 L10 Pts 20

18/19 Season P2 W0 D2 L0 Pts 2

Cup 17/18 Season P3 W0 D0 L3

Cup 18/19 Season P1 W0 D0 L1

Our wins came against:

QPR, Sheffield Wednesday, Ipswich, Birmingham 

If you combine 17/18 with 18/19 it doesn’t make good reading.

18/19 is a small sample, my “happy clapper” view is that we are unbeaten...and I think this team’s confidence will grow when we are unbeaten.  Middlesbrough is a very tough game and at the end of it we will either have 2, 3 or 5 points, and reactions on here will mirror one of those 3 totals.  I would be happy if we got a point (I hope we win).  Boro and Forest are likely to be in the mix, and would hopefully show we are a tough(ish) nut to crack at home.  Good home form avoids any relegation battles unless you really are dire away, and provides a platform for going on unbeaten runs.

I don’t fully subscribe to the view that 2 games (3 with cup) is too early to panic....you can see signs within those 2 games of issues.  The problem is only focussing on the bad things, there have been good things too.  Had we lost from two or three-nil that would be very different, but we haven’t.  LJ is under a bit of pressure because his less-likely starters didn’t do enough against lower league opposition to push the more-likely starters into better performances.

Saturday should be my first game of the season, so looking forward to seeing some of the new players and also whether we’ve improved some of the problem areas of last season.  You would hope the players (here from last season) are motivated to stop Flint having a happy return, and you’d hope LJ has instilled a bit of “we all hate Pulis” mentality into all of them, especially the new boys.

 

Good post as usual Dave. Lots there I agree with.

RE; the sample size thing, because this is a point I’ve made, I think it’s still far too early to judge the team compared to ‘last seasons team’. Think it’s too early to expect anywhere near cohesion yet - not quite in the ‘performing’ stage of Tuckman’s theory yet.

I agree you can notice the beginning of issues - for example lack of an aerially dominant CB or lack of a midfield general. These issues can grow and become real problems when the team does reach full cohesion.

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2 hours ago, Rob k said:

Christ - out of interest where do you believe those points will come from? In the first 10 games we have among them 

Forest, Boro, Villa, Swansea, West Brom and then 2 games against newly promoted sides with momentum, Wigan and Blackburn.

I see 9 points out of that lot of games maximum 

I've seen the fixtures for this block of 10 and the next. Hopefully, win most of the home games and (maybe) get something at QPR? I'm an optimist but then I was hoping for a win at Bolton.

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8 hours ago, Robbored said:

Try watching/listening to SLs interviews. He said exactly that at the end of last season.

 

@Sturny, Robbored is right ( there I’ve said it ?). I think it was a Radio Bristol interview on the last day of the season. He was talking about players leaving in the Summer and how some decisions might be unpopular. ( I am totally convinced from what was said and the body language that Bobby Reid was certainly gone when he collected his Golden Boot award after the game. Almost certainly Flint too and only a matter of time before Joe).

 Lansdown said something along the lines of we would have to improve on our league position this season. I took it to mean that improvement was expected to be achieved after losing several key players. This is exactly what has happened player wise. Yes I know we have recruited but at the time I believed Lee was being instructed to deliver more with less for this season and after seeing our business still stand by my beliefs.

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@RedM I think the grapevine eluded to Pack leaving too. We’ve done well to keep hold of him and extend his contract. I wonder if the captains armband and therefore reassurance that he (might be) is the no1 CM might have helped?  If we really do want to play out from the back Pack is essential. 

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9 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@RedM I think the grapevine eluded to Pack leaving too. We’ve done well to keep hold of him and extend his contract. I wonder if the captains armband and therefore reassurance that he (might be) is the no1 CM might have helped?  If we really do want to play out from the back Pack is essential. 

I am thinking the same, new contract and doing more media has upped his importance a bit. 

 Has he been made Captain for sure or just whilst Bailey Wright has been out? Korey was Captain on Tuesday, but obviously Pack didn’t play. Maybe they are just quietly letting any changes go under the radar, unless I’ve missed any announcement?

I’d like Pack to be Captain which should see him pencilled in for a starting place as I think the team is better with him in it. He also shields the defence an awful lot and I think they look like they are needing that especially with all the injuries and changes. 

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15 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@RedM I think the grapevine eluded to Pack leaving too. We’ve done well to keep hold of him and extend his contract. I wonder if the captains armband and therefore reassurance that he (might be) is the no1 CM might have helped?  If we really do want to play out from the back Pack is essential. 

I expect it's more likely a case of we had a word with Marlon and said we cannot lose four key players, you get a massive bumper wage and captain's armband and next summer, you can go. 

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16 hours ago, MelksRed said:

It's going to be a long and laborious season if every time we draw or lose we are going to have the LJ out argument.......long and short of it is.....he'll have as long as SL is willing to put up with his performance.....I can envisage that as a city fan and it's major investor he has dreams of selling it on at a profit having seen us into the Prem.....if LJ isn't the man for that eventually SL will make the call. Doesn't matter how much we do (or don't) support LJ......his future is linked with his ability to convince SL that he is the man to realise his ambitions.....

I support LJ despite the run of form since Dec 17.....ok....it's been disappointing but I can see us having a slow start to the season and growing in strength as it progresses.

Tin Hat on.....let the counter argument begin.......

COYRs

Does anyone believe that LJ will manage in the Prem ? If so it won';t be with BCFC in my opinion as he needs an open chequebook

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22 hours ago, Monkeh said:

johnsons sacking was spoke about at board level and only just stayed on as manager, it was spoken about in the media by lansdown himself, Lansdown has also proven in the past that while patient he's not afraid to get rid of a manager,

 

While fellow board members will almost certainly have put their concerns to SL, and a brief 'discussion' was no doubt held, as soon as SL made his own postion clear that he supported LJ  that would likely have been the end of it.

It obviously wasn't a question of LJ 'just staying on', it couldn't have been more clear from SL's interviews at the time there was no chance whatsoever of LJ being sacked and that he would have remained manager even if we'd gone down.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

While fellow board members will almost certainly have put their concerns to SL, and a brief 'discussion' was no doubt held, as soon as SL made his own postion clear that he supported LJ  that would likely have been the end of it.

It obviously wasn't a question of LJ 'just staying on', it couldn't have been more clear from SL's interviews at the time there was no chance whatsoever of LJ being sacked and that he would have remained manager even if we'd gone down.

 

 

Rubbish. 

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I suspect that the only place where LJ’s future is being considered is here on this thread, SL still believes that he has the right man, me I am not so sure.

All I ever wanted to see after the 2018 surrender is consistency, perhaps the excuse makers will claim that 2 draws in 2 games is consistency.

I believe that LJ is probably the most excused manager I have known at BCFC in my 60 years of support.

I said before the season started after the sales of Flint and Reid and before the sale of Bryan, that this seasons excuse is already in place, the bedding in of a new squad after selling our best players, ok but the way BCFC are now operating, that excuse will be like a revolving door every season, the same could well happen next season when newly promoted or wealthy championship clubs come knocking for the likes of Webster, Pack and Brownhill and that process could well be ongoing ever year.

With the exception of Webster and Wiemann most of his signings have been punts or ones for the future, most of the punts have shown why they are punts and in nearly 3 years only ODowda represents the one for the future brigade.

I am fed up with excuses, it’s the players fault, it’s SL’s fault, it’s the defenders fault, Plymouth are a better side than last year, new squad, injuries, officials, “did you expect anything out that game?”, etc, etc, etc.

I am fed up with excusing the loss of close to 2 mil on 2 players written off as that’s acceptable in the championship and then seeing the same people claim that we cannot afford to bid for certain players because we cannot afford them.

Our summer recruitment over the past 2 seasons has been OK, the 2 January windows have been gutless and unambitious.

Perhaps this seasons sales v signings, shows a different direction, in as much as SL has kept more money in the piggy bank for either a relegation saving or play off push splurge in January, me I ain’t holding my breath.

SL needs to decide exactly what he wants our club to be, one challenging for promotion or one treading water and starting with a new spine to the club year on year and experiencing the odd unbeaten run and seemingly never ending losing relegationesque runs, where the excuses get trotted out once more.

Me I see the same as the last 2 seasons but probably more of struggle this season than last.

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1 hour ago, Loon plage said:

Does anyone believe that LJ will manage in the Prem ? If so it won';t be with BCFC in my opinion as he needs an open chequebook

Only if he gets a club promoted. Can’t see a Prem club taking him on. Too many failures sitting on the Prem Manager Merrygoround who won’t let any young upstarts take their place. 

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1 minute ago, Shtanley said:

We play excellent football without a clear cutting edge atm. Once Diedhiou is back I'll start truly judging. I think we'll be mid table after 12 gamesish. 

I really hope you’re right. Me personally I really think we are in trouble. Got a bad feeling about this season. 

IMO

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1 hour ago, Loon plage said:

Does anyone believe that LJ will manage in the Prem ? If so it won';t be with BCFC in my opinion as he needs an open chequebook

yea i do, it won't be with us, he'll be the sort of manager newcastle appoint when benitez gets fed up 

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1 minute ago, Shtanley said:

We play excellent football without a clear cutting edge atm. Once Diedhiou is back I'll start truly judging. I think we'll be mid table after 12 gamesish. 

The lack of cutting edge is down to a slow languid style and the lack of midfield creativity, unless we play to Diedhiou's strengths, which is something that we are not doing for Wiemann, IMO nothing will change.

If the Bolton taught us anything carrying on playing a slow languid game and we will create little or nothing, inject urgency and pace (like the necessity of being 2-0 down) then we look far better.

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2 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

I really hope you’re right. Me personally I really think we are in trouble. Got a bad feeling about this season. 

IMO

Fair. I like Webster replacing Flint and I like Weimann replacing Reid. Bit annoyed that Adelakun has got injured and that we haven't clearly improved our goalkeeper. I don't think we'll ever push for a playoff place but I would take consistent averageness this season if we end up top half.

1 minute ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

The lack of cutting edge is down to a slow languid style and the lack of midfield creativity, unless we play to Diedhiou's strengths, which is something that we are not doing for Wiemann, IMO nothing will change.

If the Bolton taught us anything carrying on playing a slow languid game and we will create little or nothing, inject urgency and pace (like the necessity of being 2-0 down) then we look far better.

I think once Diedhiou is back our style will become more potent. Be interesting to see who plays in the midfield four. Eliasson's new found ability from wide will be perfect for Diedhiou.

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1 minute ago, Shtanley said:

Fair. I like Webster replacing Flint and I like Weimann replacing Reid. Bit annoyed that Adelakun has got injured and that we haven't clearly improved our goalkeeper. I don't think we'll ever push for a playoff place but I would take consistent averageness this season if we end up top half.

Definitely take that. And obviously I hope I’m wrong . 

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4 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

yea i do, it won't be with us, he'll be the sort of manager newcastle appoint when benitez gets fed up 

I think he needs another half season like last year to attract that interest. I could have seen a Prem side coming in for him around December 17.

I'm not sure he can do that again though, but we will see.

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4 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

yea i do, it won't be with us, he'll be the sort of manager newcastle appoint when benitez gets fed up 

Not unless Mike Ashley sells up. can you imagine the interview..

MA - Would you like to be our manager?

LJ - Can I sign players willy nilly when I run out of ideas?

MA - Close the door on your way out....

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3 minutes ago, glynriley said:

Not unless Mike Ashley sells up. can you imagine the interview..

MA - Would you like to be our manager?

LJ - Can I sign players willy nilly when I run out of ideas?

MA - Close the door on your way out....

if ashley sells up then no, but with him at the helm? of course i can see it, Johnson is happy to work in a budget is comfortable letting players go rarely speaks out against things in public,

he's the perfect ashley man 

2 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

Based upon what ?

on the fact he's an academic (which is another word for troll these days apparently)  

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2 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

if ashley sells up then no, but with him at the helm? of course i can see it, Johnson is happy to work in a budge is comftable letting players go rarely speaks out against things in public,

he's the perfect ashley man 

Can't see it. Someone like Ashley will look at the lengthy list of players signed by LJ, that have had little or no impression on the first team, and run a mile. The flops would be even more expensive at Premier League level.

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3 minutes ago, glynriley said:

Can't see it. Someone like Ashley will look at the lengthy list of players signed by LJ, that have had little or no impression on the first team, and run a mile. The flops would be even more expensive at Premier League level.

no some one like ashley will look at the cash generated from sales and money spent, he's a business man not a football man, turnover of players won't interest him one jot but money generated by the club will 

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3 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

no some one like ashley will look at the cash generated from sales and money spent, he's a business man not a football man, turnover of players won't interest him one jot but money generated by the club will  

At that level, if you buy twice as many players as you sell, your wage bill is going to be astronomical. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

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