Multi cultural Bristol

[Port Said Red]

19 hours ago, sglosbcfc said:

Now that we could field an entirely Muslim front line - Mohammed Eisa, Famara Diedhou and Milan Djuric (assuming he's Muslim as majority of Bosnian's are) it got me thinking what efforts have the club made to engage the large Somali community in Bristol. There is also the more established Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities as well. I am sure parents born or growing up in the 70s and 80s might have a view of British football of skinheads, National Front supported, monkey chants, bananas etc but we all know things have changed a lot. I took a mate last season who looks like a Muslim stereotype (long beard, traditional Islamic clothing etc) and I was half expecting at least one negative comment but not at all, he was accepted as a fellow City fan and not treated any differently. We should make an effort before the 'family club' try to entice them with a game of 'boob cricket'.

I am sure the Community Trust will be disappointed in the way you have ignored their efforts all across Bristol, to take the club into all the various communities.

[Bristol Rob]

5 minutes ago, JustinCider said:

I once recall a nice Italian lady trying to have a conversation with me went she went down there

but I had to remind her that it was impolite to talk with her mouth full.

^ Spaghetti western.

[Bristol Rob]

1 minute ago, Port Said Red said:

I am sure the Community Trust will be disappointed in the way you have ignored their efforts all across Bristol, to take the club into all the various communities.

I'd like to hear more about the outreach work the Community Trust do. I rarely look at the official site, do they headline on there, or is it mostly first team news?

[Phileas Fogg]

35 minutes ago, havanatopia said:

Been reading a very good book about the Balkans which delves into the history of the region; full of invasions, cultural impositions, horrific violence and ethnic cleansing going back nearly a thousand years. 

The Ottoman legacy in Bosnia means that in the latest survey of 2017 50.1% said they were Bosniaks or Islamic but the majority of those are secular. The balance of course are Catholic or orthodox Catholic Croats and Serbs respectively.

You are just about correct; was it an educated guess?!

And how do u know Eisa and Famara are muslim? I assume you know this.

Diedhiou definitely is. Not sure about Eisa, sounds like just a guess to me. 

[Port Said Red]

4 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

I'd like to hear more about the outreach work the Community Trust do. I rarely look at the official site, do they headline on there, or is it mostly first team news?

They have stories quite often, admittedly during the international breaks etc, when the players get involved more.

They also have their own page. https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/?tag=BCCT

[Natchfever]

10 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Completely untrue re Leicester.

It has a very large Hindu population, plus a smaller Sikh and Muslim one.

Many are descended from relatives who were kicked out of Uganda by that idiot Idi Amin, so are East Africans of predominantly Indian (so not Muslim) origin.

Kenya did it too didn't they. Too hard working and successful for their liking.

[Natchfever]

10 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

 

I don’t agree with that - one of Celtic’s greatest ever players (arguably) was a Protestant who supported Rangers...I think the old firm fans support what their clubs stand for, not the religions of the individual players...

Celtic back in the day was a bit more ambivalent wasn't Jock Stein a Protestant ?  but I remember when Mo Johnson signed for Rangers......

[BS4 on Tour...]

2 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

Celtic back in the day was a bit more ambivalent wasn't Jock Stein a Protestant ?  but I remember when Mo Johnson signed for Rangers......

I wouldn’t necessarily agree, Jock Stein was the Celtic reserve team manager in 1957 but was told by the chairman that he wouldn’t go any further at the club because he wasn’t a catholic - so he left to become Dunfermline’s Manager. Obviously he returned to Celtic later... https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/1025245/jock-stein-celtic-protestant/

The player to which I was alluding was Kenny Dalglish - Protestant, Rangers fan and Celtic legend....

[Natchfever]

8 hours ago, The turtle said:

Most of the costa del sol from malaga to marbella is full of British communities. 

As is Benidorm and the surrounding area.

Not to mention mallorca and menorca.

 

These communities have no interest in integrating. Have decades of nothing past thank you in Spanish, and will often eat in pubs with British sourced food only. Brits abroad are some of the worst integrators going, even on holiday they speak our language (good luck getting that in reverse in the UK)

It is on both the host to reach out and the newcomer to have have an open mind. Without both you get nothing.

Completely different situation.

Maybe not integrating as much as some races but not using up Spain's social housing either.

CF Malaga also has a huge British fan base which tells you that maybe they integrate a little better than you portray. 

[Phileas Fogg]

8 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

Completely different situation.

Maybe not integrating as much as some races but not using up Spain's social housing either.

CF Malaga also has a huge British fan base which tells you that maybe they integrate a little better than you portray. 

Turtle lives in Spain so understands the situation. I've also lived in Spain and he's got a point. Largely, British people expect to get by using English - I know I have in the past. Quite often it's possible too as lots of people in Europe have at least a basic understanding of the language.

Of course people from First World Britain won't generally go to another country and use their social housing, but that wasn't the point Turtle was making. British people can be just as poor at fully integrating and immersing themselves in a new culture as some groups that come here.

[Natchfever]

26 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Turtle lives in Spain so understands the situation. I've also lived in Spain and he's got a point. Largely, British people expect to get by using English - I know I have in the past. Quite often it's possible too as lots of people in Europe have at least a basic understanding of the language.

Of course people from First World Britain won't generally go to another country and use their social housing, but that wasn't the point Turtle was making. British people can be just as poor at fully integrating and immersing themselves in a new culture as some groups that come here.

Sorry. Accept what you say about not learning the language etc, but its easy to do that when the vast majority are retiring over there, and simply want a self funding British life in the sunshine with cheaper housing, and long established British (taxpaying) businesses to shop drink and dine at. Not how I would like to live there, and  i'm absolutely certain anyone school age must go through the Spanish curriculum although Turtle will be the definitive voice on that.

My point all throughout this thread is that a named "community" should not be singled out for special treatment ahead of anyone else as it is divisive and will certainly create resentment, not simply amongst long established so called Anglos, but third generation Asian and Afro Caribbean's not to mention other relative newcomers.

[Olé]

1 hour ago, Loon plage said:

Maybe not integrating as much as some races but not using up Spain's social housing either.

I see where this is all going. We started at there is no reason to single out or incentivise a specific minority (which I agree with, simply because we wouldn't be - the Community Trust extends the same encouragement to lots of groups) but we've ended up with a sideways reference to minority races and social housing.

So on the one hand when it comes to City and community strategy, you fiercely want all groups to be treated absolutely equally and transparently, but when you want to make a political point that has nothing to do with City, you're quite happy to single 'em out. I could have predicted the real agenda from the original post!

And as it relates to Spain - remind me how a retiree leads a "self-funding life" as it relates to public healthcare and prescriptions? And on the subject of social housing, how do Brits buying up property alleviate a low-income housing crisis the sees poor indigenous youngsters living with parents or leaving the country? 

But then that doesn't fit the agenda - which wasn't really ever relevant to the OP's original suggestion of City engaging more supporters. And using the fact that affluent holiday makers and retirees can attend Malaga matches as some kind of evidence of lack of integration by working class Bristol families - says it all.

[underhanded]

Certain immigrant or ethnic minority communities, in particular British Asians, have typically shown low levels of participation in both the playing of football and attending of games in the UK. This is a fact. The reasons for this are probably complex and difficult to articulate, and most certainly ones that will be debated and contested.

Yet, as a football fan, who will watch any tin-pot footie match, play a game of 5-a-side whenever I have a free evening, and talk about it endlessly with my footie obsessed mate, I would see no reason not try to promote, interact and catalyse forms of participation in the game, and if we can do this at a local level, with our team, I'm all for it.

Community trusts, sports partnerships, council led physical activity teams et al. are always running specific campaigns and projects that specifically target certain groups (whether this is ethnicity, gender, those with disabilities, overweight men, women cancer survivors etc). It is nothing new, and clearly must be effective if this is the way they continually operate.

 

[The turtle]

3 hours ago, Loon plage said:

Completely different situation.

Maybe not integrating as much as some races but not using up Spain's social housing either.

CF Malaga also has a huge British fan base which tells you that maybe they integrate a little better than you portray. 

What I find very interesting about malaga c.f is they have two ultra sections. The Spanish behind one goal, the internationals behind the other.

Apparently they don't like either other a huge amount either.

Last season malaga changed their seat wording from 

Desde 1904 to 'since 1904' all the way behind one goal. lets just say it didn't go down well with the locals.

But you have a fair point re attending matches. Could they be because how deep routed football is with English culture?

2 hours ago, Loon plage said:

  i'm absolutely certain anyone school age must go through the Spanish curriculum although Turtle will be the definitive voice on that.

Something like 32% of Spanish children go to private schools (depending on private school definition) they also have  bilingual schools.

Some schools will teach morning in English and Spanish in Afternoon. In other schools,  subjects like science are only taught in English. 

There are many schools is Spain where only speaking Spanish is not enough. If your English is not high enough, you can't learn because you have no idea what's  happening (It's difficult to imagine that in the UK, it was an eye opener for me)

It's quite common for children to know things in a subject in English, but have no idea of that word in Spanish (organs of the body for example)

There is a drive in Spain to improve English, Everyone is aware it needs to happen. But a questioning whether it should come at the expense of their own language.

If you go to a public school 100% you need Spanish, in a private one though it's not necessarily the case.

........

P.s I am definitely not the voice though, just what I've seen with my own experience. Your opinion is just as valid.

 

......

Back to the original thread though.

I think a key point is growing a fan base. Without looking into it. I would guess the diversity of bristol, is not reflected in attendences at city.

There is a massive oppurtunity there to grow the fan base. Sure today certain ethnic groups seem more likely to wear a top 6 premier league teams.

But get them to the gate and maybe just maybe they become hooked.

Isn't that after all how we all started?

 

 

[Tinmans Love Child]

On 06/08/2018 at 11:42, ZiderEyed said:

I've always wondered why we didn't do more scouting in places like Poland, considering the large Polish population in Bristol and Weston. I spoke to some Italians living in Bristol last season who went down because of Eros, I'm sure we could do more there.

2 seasons ago I sat behind a polish family (Mum, Dad and son) all it City shirts with scarves etc, which was great to see

[Mr Popodopolous]

22 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

City have a policy of inviting pupils from a different school to form a guard of honour to welcome the team onto the pitch at every home game.

Does this not include schools from ethnic areas of Bristol?

I've a theory on that.

They target the schools with the highest likely retention rate, likelihood of future support based on history etc even if it could be seen as short sighted...so South Bristol, places near it, North Somerset, other surrounding areas of Bristol with quite a bit of enthusiasm for City- North East Somerset? Commercially it makes sense- Community Trust wise? Not so much.

[Natchfever]

1 hour ago, The turtle said:

What I find very interesting about malaga c.f is they have two ultra sections. The Spanish behind one goal, the internationals behind the other.

Apparently they don't like either other a huge amount either.

Last season malaga changed their seat wording from 

Desde 1904 to 'since 1904' all the way behind one goal. lets just say it didn't go down well with the locals.

But you have a fair point re attending matches. Could they be because how deep routed football is with English culture?

Something like 32% of Spanish children go to private schools (depending on private school definition) they also have  bilingual schools.

Some schools will teach morning in English and Spanish in Afternoon. In other schools,  subjects like science are only taught in English. 

There are many schools is Spain where only speaking Spanish is not enough. If your English is not high enough, you can't learn because you have no idea what's  happening (It's difficult to imagine that in the UK, it was an eye opener for me)

It's quite common for children to know things in a subject in English, but have no idea of that word in Spanish (organs of the body for example)

There is a drive in Spain to improve English, Everyone is aware it needs to happen. But a questioning whether it should come at the expense of their own language.

If you go to a public school 100% you need Spanish, in a private one though it's not necessarily the case.

........

P.s I am definitely not the voice though, just what I've seen with my own experience. Your opinion is just as valid.

 

......

Back to the original thread though.

I think a key point is growing a fan base. Without looking into it. I would guess the diversity of bristol, is not reflected in attendences at city.

There is a massive oppurtunity there to grow the fan base. Sure today certain ethnic groups seem more likely to wear a top 6 premier league teams.

But get them to the gate and maybe just maybe they become hooked.

Isn't that after all how we all started?

 

 

I think the support of top 6 premier league clubs is  common across all races nowadays in Bristol unfortunately, which is also is a magnet for wealthy professional folks (ok a bit of a stereotype) who go to Uni here and never go home so the club has all that to contend with in winning the hearts and minds of football fans who live in the area. That being said, targeting certain ethnic groups over and above others is wrong on a number of levels, and as for how we all started, that was surely as schoolkids who went under their own steam.

Seriously no issue with anyone becoming a fan, but if I thought they were getting preferential treatment it would anger me, and many others so would be one hell of a gamble for the club.

 

ps very interesting insight into CF Malaga  and the teaching of English in Spain,thanks.

[Huntstile Red]

14 hours ago, Bristol Rob said:

If you can defend as well, there might be an opening at Ashton Gate for you.

As well as who, Rob? As well as Eliasson, yeah I reckon. As for anyone else, probably not, to. I'm more Russell Grant than Russell Bromage.

[Natchfever]

3 hours ago, Olé said:

I see where this is all going. We started at there is no reason to single out or incentivise a specific minority (which I agree with, simply because we wouldn't be - the Community Trust extends the same encouragement to lots of groups) but we've ended up with a sideways reference to minority races and social housing.

I don't know who "we" are but the original poster named specific ethnic groups so glad we agree that everyone should be treated equally.

So on the one hand when it comes to City and community strategy, you fiercely want all groups to be treated absolutely equally and transparently, but when you want to make a political point that has nothing to do with City, you're quite happy to single 'em out. I could have predicted the real agenda from the original post!

Not sure who I singled out, and to be honest, I consider the situation of Brits in Spain to be irrelevant to a discussion about BCFC. However, as the example had been made, it was worth responding  that Spaniards really have no cause to dislike the fact that a pretty large number of (retired) Brits who have poured millions into their economy over decades don't integrate because they are not competing for the same scarce housing stock Whether you in your infinite wisdom consider it a political point or not, it is worth stating because it demonstrates that the sitiation is in no way comparable

And as it relates to Spain - remind me how a retiree leads a "self-funding life" as it relates to public healthcare and prescriptions? And on the subject of social housing, how do Brits buying up property alleviate a low-income housing crisis the sees poor indigenous youngsters living with parents or leaving the country? 

Self funding life because of the EU and associated reciprocal healthcare, plus of course they pay their own bills - unless they are on benefits, which again is reciprocal and no doubt utilised by Spanish in the UK. Regarding a low income housing crisis in Spain are you really laying that at the door of Brits, the majority of whom live in purpose built enclaves where no Spaniards have any wish to live ? Do you really believe that those holiday areas would have been as well developed without the patronage of Brits and other northern europeans who from the 1960s kick started a poverty stricken country and created thousands of employment opportunities for indigenous working class Spaniards and fortunes for Spanish businesses

But then that doesn't fit the agenda - which wasn't really ever relevant to the OP's original suggestion of City engaging more supporters. And using the fact that affluent holiday makers and retirees can attend Malaga matches as some kind of evidence of lack of integration by working class Bristol families - says it all.

What ******* agenda ? I think your clear disdain for Britons living in a country you clearly have a connection with is transparent so you have an agenda of your own not very well hidden away have you.Also stop being selective about what the OP said. He did not say City should engage "more" supporters which is laudable.He specifically named races which is contemptible.

Lastly, define "working class" please, and then explain why someone who probably was working class for 50 years when it meant something and chooses to watch a Spanish team as a ST holder "says it all".

Responding in the body of your post Ole (above)

[PHILINFRANCE]

15 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Completely untrue re Leicester.

It has a very large Hindu population, plus a smaller Sikh and Muslim one.

Many are descended from relatives who were kicked out of Uganda by that idiot Idi Amin, so are East Africans of predominantly Indian (so not Muslim) origin. India has the world's third largest muslim population; 10%, or more than 170 million in the most recent concensus!

Both India and Uganda were, of course, former British colonies, and the more than half a million Ugandan Asians expelled by the brutal former British Army officer Idi Amin back in the early 1970s were, for the most part, British passport holders descended from the Indian sub-continent and predominantly Hindu, although there were also a large number of Sikhs: the majority of those expelled were entrepreneurial/shopkeepers, hence the proliferation in the UK of late night corner shops from the mid-1970s onwards.   

7 hours ago, stevep38 said:

Okey doke Graham. Didnt realise that. Learn something new every day.

I forget when City last played Leicester at Ashton Gate, but I remember well the chant of 'Small town in India, you're just a small town in India etc.': there were also similarly abusive chants relating to Indian food. 

5 hours ago, Loon plage said:

Kenya did it too didn't they. Too hard working and successful for their liking.

Interestingly, but for reasons too complicated to expound on this thread, the Kenyan Asians (predominently Indian), who had been prominent in Kenya since the late 19th Century - especially in Nairobi, where black Africans were not allowed to live! -  were not actually expelled but chose to leave of their own accord as, following independence, they found themselves being persecuted economically. 

[sglosbcfc]

On 6 August 2018 at 11:52, Pezo said:

I'm not sure but I don't think people start supporting a football club because some of the players have the same religion.

I'm not saying that exactly, however if I was in another country and I had some link with a player in that country it might make me more likely to watch them.

[sglosbcfc]

On 6 August 2018 at 12:02, Pezo said:

But some might just because they go to university or simply have moved to the city, I don't know why we would specifically reach out to one minority when we should be reaching out to the whole city.

Because some minorities are significantly under represented at football matches. Trust me if you were a Muslim in the 80s you wouldn't have attended football league games as you'd have a significant risk of being given a good hiding.

[sglosbcfc]

On 6 August 2018 at 13:24, Sweeneys Penalties said:

Some do!! No question about it. Others (I'll use Pat Nevin as an example) are so appalled by the behaviour of some Celtic fans and the clubs "light touch" attitude that he takes his kids to Hibs. 

Pat Nevin was always a Hibs fan, nothing to do with Celtic fans behaviour. Hibs are a Catholic club like Celtic and Dundee United (to a lesser degree).

[Undy English]

People can make arguments all day about the Brits in Spain eating Sunday Roasts and not learning the language, but at the end of the day, same as it is in this country, it's the failures of respective governments to harden the rules on immigration & integration.

Can't speak Spanish? Then you can't live here. Can't speak English? Can't live here. 

Immigration policies of various European nations have allowed immigrants of all nationalities to get away with murder when it comes to integration and now they're paying the price with these divisions and 'communities within communities'. And before I get labelled a racist, I think my fellow Brits are the some of the worst offenders in the world.

There's also a severe lack of respect shown to cultures nowadays. As said in my earlier post, when I was moving to Spain I made a real effort to integrate - I felt I had to do the leg work to fit in. I did not expect the locals to cater for me, more in I should make the effort to fit in with their existing community. Nowadays it seems to be the polar opposite.

[Phileas Fogg]

2 minutes ago, Undy English said:

People can make arguments all day about the Brits in Spain eating Sunday Roasts and not learning the language, but at the end of the day, same as it is in this country, it's the failures of respective governments to harden the rules on immigration & integration.

Can't speak Spanish? Then you can't live here. Can't speak English? Can't live here. 

Immigration policies of various European nations have allowed immigrants of all nationalities to get away with murder when it comes to integration and now they're paying the price with these divisions and 'communities within communities'. And before I get labelled a racist, I think my fellow Brits are the some of the worst offenders in the world.

There's also a severe lack of respect shown to cultures nowadays. As said in my earlier post, when I was moving to Spain I made a real effort to integrate - I felt I had to do the leg work to fit in. I did not expect the locals to cater for me, more in I should make the effort to fit in with their existing community. Nowadays it seems to be the polar opposite.

I think one key difference with Brits in Spain and, say, Somali communities coming to the UK is affluence.

Generally speaking, aside from holidaymakers, Brits in Spain don't really cause problems. They aren't reliant on welfare, they aren't really causing issues with crime or gangs and contribute to the economy. Whilst it would be nice if every single Brit who moved to Spain learned the language, and we could probably do better with immersing ourselves in the culture, it's a very different argument because it's a very different group of people.

 

[real_bristol]

On 06/08/2018 at 03:55, winsleyred said:

Some might they do in Glasgow

Apologies if this has already been mentioned but supporters of Rangers and Celtic are predominantly of the same religion. At least that’s my understanding 

[bengalcub]

There's a big Asian footballing Community in bristol I have Asian mates who support / follow top 6 teams , however given our cup run last season a couple of them went to the game and have been back to the gate a few times with me , success and positive performances /results will bring in new fans regardless of their beliefs or race . 

[richwwtk]

if you ever read the non-football/political areas of the forum the people for and against promoting the club in areas of Bristol mainly made of up immigrants seem to be very easy to predict.

To my mind, if you are promoting the club and  making it easier for people to come along and support, they may feel just a little more welcome in this country and feel more inclined to integrate themselves into life in general in the UK, if they previously weren't. Everybody wins.

[Natchfever]

4 hours ago, richwwtk said:

if you ever read the non-football/political areas of the forum the people for and against promoting the club in areas of Bristol mainly made of up immigrants seem to be very easy to predict.

To my mind, if you are promoting the club and  making it easier for people to come along and support, they may feel just a little more welcome in this country and feel more inclined to integrate themselves into life in general in the UK, if they previously weren't. Everybody wins.

Rich, please define "easier to come along and support" genuine question I assure you.

[richwwtk]

13 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

Rich, please define "easier to come along and support" genuine question I assure you.

I hadn't really considered a particular definition.

Somehow making people feel confident that they would feel comfortable coming to Ashton Gate would be a good start.