Multi cultural Bristol

[Tristan Cork]

This is a really fascinating issue and this has been a good debate so far.
Mo Eisa is most certainly from a Muslim background - he's called Mohammed for a start, and came from Sudan when he was nine to London.
The barriers Bristol City face in attracting local kids from the city to come to games and be a City fan watching their team for real - rather than a Man Utd fan watching their team on TV - is the same for a 'white kid' from Withywood as it is a kid from an African or Muslim background from, say, Easton - namely, the cost of a ticket, and who is going to physically bring them every other week
However - and this is a message to all those in the thread so far who've kinda said 'why should we make a special effort for them?'
There is a difference, or there is more likely to be a difference, and it's this.
A kid from Withywood may well come from a family of City supporters, or football fans at least, might have a mate who goes already who he or she can tag along with, or know some people who already go. Remember your first game? Someone took you, and made sure you went again because you said you wanted to. My first football ever was liverpool at home in 78. My dad took me.
While a kid from Bedminster or Withywood or Brislington might struggle to find the money every other week, if he or she can get there, they will hopefully feel welcomed, feel part of it and naturally fit in. The point is, it's not out of the ordinary for a bloke and a ten year old lad from Hartcliffe to Ashton Gate to watch a match. 

A kid of Somali or Sudanese or Pakistani descent from Easton, for example, might be encouraged to go after seeing Bobby Reid last season or Mo Eisa this season visiting their school.
But who is going to take them? There perhaps might not be that same tradition or history of knowing someone who goes to games. There might also be resistance from parents or other adults - who wrongly suggest that a football crowd is full of hooligans (that's what my mum said to my dad, and tbf in 1978 she wasn't completely wrong!) or racists.
If they do get to come, brilliant. The important thing then is that they are made to feel welcome. I would love to think that a family of Muslims in the third row of the South Stand would get randomly hugged by their neighbour just the same as any one else when a last minute  winner goes in. 
The point is that it might only take one negative or nasty comment to make someone feel unwelcome. Same goes for women at football, or anyone who doesn't naturally fit in to the overwhelming demographic of the existing crowd.
So not only does the lad from Easton have to overcome the possible absence of the kind of football heritage around him to enable him to go to his first City game, he and his nervous dad might well not feel completely at home when they do come.
That's what 'making a special effort' might look like. I know City do loads to get kids from both Withywood and Easton to come to games - helping to organise school trips, working with youth football clubs, youth clubs and community groups. It can't do any harm to send Fammy and Mo to Easton to hand out some tickets. Not only might it help create the next generation of City fans, but some of them might well follow in Bobby Reid's path and end up on the pitch!
The 'special effort' also goes for us, the regular fans. We need to make Ashton Gate especially welcoming for everyone 

[Bristol Rob]

15 minutes ago, Tristan Cork said:

This is a really fascinating issue and this has been a good debate so far.
Mo Eisa is most certainly from a Muslim background - he's called Mohammed for a start, and came from Sudan when he was nine to London.
The barriers Bristol City face in attracting local kids from the city to come to games and be a City fan watching their team for real - rather than a Man Utd fan watching their team on TV - is the same for a 'white kid' from Withywood as it is a kid from an African or Muslim background from, say, Easton - namely, the cost of a ticket, and who is going to physically bring them every other week
However - and this is a message to all those in the thread so far who've kinda said 'why should we make a special effort for them?'
There is a difference, or there is more likely to be a difference, and it's this.
A kid from Withywood may well come from a family of City supporters, or football fans at least, might have a mate who goes already who he or she can tag along with, or know some people who already go. Remember your first game? Someone took you, and made sure you went again because you said you wanted to. My first football ever was liverpool at home in 78. My dad took me.
While a kid from Bedminster or Withywood or Brislington might struggle to find the money every other week, if he or she can get there, they will hopefully feel welcomed, feel part of it and naturally fit in. The point is, it's not out of the ordinary for a bloke and a ten year old lad from Hartcliffe to Ashton Gate to watch a match. 

A kid of Somali or Sudanese or Pakistani descent from Easton, for example, might be encouraged to go after seeing Bobby Reid last season or Mo Eisa this season visiting their school.
But who is going to take them? There perhaps might not be that same tradition or history of knowing someone who goes to games. There might also be resistance from parents or other adults - who wrongly suggest that a football crowd is full of hooligans (that's what my mum said to my dad, and tbf in 1978 she wasn't completely wrong!) or racists.
If they do get to come, brilliant. The important thing then is that they are made to feel welcome. I would love to think that a family of Muslims in the third row of the South Stand would get randomly hugged by their neighbour just the same as any one else when a last minute  winner goes in. 
The point is that it might only take one negative or nasty comment to make someone feel unwelcome. Same goes for women at football, or anyone who doesn't naturally fit in to the overwhelming demographic of the existing crowd.
So not only does the lad from Easton have to overcome the possible absence of the kind of football heritage around him to enable him to go to his first City game, he and his nervous dad might well not feel completely at home when they do come.
That's what 'making a special effort' might look like. I know City do loads to get kids from both Withywood and Easton to come to games - helping to organise school trips, working with youth football clubs, youth clubs and community groups. It can't do any harm to send Fammy and Mo to Easton to hand out some tickets. Not only might it help create the next generation of City fans, but some of them might well follow in Bobby Reid's path and end up on the pitch!
The 'special effort' also goes for us, the regular fans. We need to make Ashton Gate especially welcoming for everyone 

Maybe you could do a story on this.

'City fans would love to see Diversity (but not those blokes what dance)'

I don't know how many tickets the supporters trust were able to get following their fund raising efforts after the cost of kids tickets increased, or if they could work with the Community Trust to try and reach out to fans who might not come from previous generations of football supporters to offer some sort of match day experience, might be a nice thing to do. That said, there are also a lot of kids priced out who are from generations of football supporters.

There are bound to be games that appeal less to the masses where the club could likely afford to donate some tickets as well - although the danger there would be if tickets were as part of a 'block' rather than spread around the ground, the integration side of this might get missed.

[Nogbad the Bad]

28 minutes ago, Tristan Cork said:

This is a really fascinating issue and this has been a good debate so far.
Mo Eisa is most certainly from a Muslim background - he's called Mohammed for a start, and came from Sudan when he was nine to London.
The barriers Bristol City face in attracting local kids from the city to come to games and be a City fan watching their team for real - rather than a Man Utd fan watching their team on TV - is the same for a 'white kid' from Withywood as it is a kid from an African or Muslim background from, say, Easton - namely, the cost of a ticket, and who is going to physically bring them every other week
However - and this is a message to all those in the thread so far who've kinda said 'why should we make a special effort for them?'
There is a difference, or there is more likely to be a difference, and it's this.
A kid from Withywood may well come from a family of City supporters, or football fans at least, might have a mate who goes already who he or she can tag along with, or know some people who already go. Remember your first game? Someone took you, and made sure you went again because you said you wanted to. My first football ever was liverpool at home in 78. My dad took me.
While a kid from Bedminster or Withywood or Brislington might struggle to find the money every other week, if he or she can get there, they will hopefully feel welcomed, feel part of it and naturally fit in. The point is, it's not out of the ordinary for a bloke and a ten year old lad from Hartcliffe to Ashton Gate to watch a match. 

A kid of Somali or Sudanese or Pakistani descent from Easton, for example, might be encouraged to go after seeing Bobby Reid last season or Mo Eisa this season visiting their school.
But who is going to take them? There perhaps might not be that same tradition or history of knowing someone who goes to games. There might also be resistance from parents or other adults - who wrongly suggest that a football crowd is full of hooligans (that's what my mum said to my dad, and tbf in 1978 she wasn't completely wrong!) or racists.
If they do get to come, brilliant. The important thing then is that they are made to feel welcome. I would love to think that a family of Muslims in the third row of the South Stand would get randomly hugged by their neighbour just the same as any one else when a last minute  winner goes in. 
The point is that it might only take one negative or nasty comment to make someone feel unwelcome. Same goes for women at football, or anyone who doesn't naturally fit in to the overwhelming demographic of the existing crowd.
So not only does the lad from Easton have to overcome the possible absence of the kind of football heritage around him to enable him to go to his first City game, he and his nervous dad might well not feel completely at home when they do come.
That's what 'making a special effort' might look like. I know City do loads to get kids from both Withywood and Easton to come to games - helping to organise school trips, working with youth football clubs, youth clubs and community groups. It can't do any harm to send Fammy and Mo to Easton to hand out some tickets. Not only might it help create the next generation of City fans, but some of them might well follow in Bobby Reid's path and end up on the pitch!
The 'special effort' also goes for us, the regular fans. We need to make Ashton Gate especially welcoming for everyone 

Pretty sure it was stated not long ago that 1 in 4 STH's at AG are female, a high percentage imo. for a traditional man's game, and far higher than when I started going.

I'd be interested to know the last time a school from St. Paul's, Easton, Barton Hill, or similar, made up the guard of honour as the City team came on the pitch.

My Dad wasn't a City fan so I found AG myself with friends of the same age and it was fantastic to be in a crowd with a group of mates and let yourself go with no beady eyed parents about.

This unchaperoned option doesn't appear to exist for young fans these days.

[Olé]

On 07/08/2018 at 14:40, Loon plage said:

What ******* agenda ? I think your clear disdain for Britons living in a country you clearly have a connection with is transparent so you have an agenda of your own not very well hidden away have you.Also stop being selective about what the OP said. He did not say City should engage "more" supporters which is laudable.He specifically named races which is contemptible.

We're obviously talking at crossed purposes which is why I left the thread alone for a bit.

My comment about an agenda, was as I said, the sideways reference in your comparison to Spain, about social housing, the implication of which (as I read it - feel free to clarify, but seemed pretty obvious) was that implicitly the subject of this debate - i.e. Somali's or whoever else in the UK - are lesser migrants.

Not only is that a political point (and a well worn one) that in my personal opinion belongs elsewhere, not in a thread simply about fan engagement, but I was trying to highlight that it was totally contradictory to the exact thing you were (rightly) preaching about treating everyone equally, not singling people out.  

The odd thing is I have said twice now that I agree with the principle that the Community Trust reaches out universally and will presumably engage these people without prejudice positive or negative. Which means we are agreeing. What I objected to was a "social housing" dig that was throw in for good measure.

By the way, I have no connection to Spain - they're my Wales! - so you've got that very wrong. If I have any agenda it's against the "immigrant" / "ex-pat" double standard (even different names), and the constant digs at immigrants in the UK (not a topic for here - but as a significant contributor, one I'd challenge).

[WhistleHappy]

 

Will our burgers and foot-long pork sausage hotdogs be halal in future ?  

 

 

 

Wot?  ...  only asking …   

[Bristol Rob]

4 minutes ago, WhistleHappy said:

 

Will our burgers and foot-long pork sausage hotdogs be halal in future ?  

 

 

 

Wot?  ...  only asking …   

 

[WhistleHappy]

5 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

 

Good old Adge.. a genius wordsmith,  BRAVO!!           ….   

[sglosbcfc]

16 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I think one key difference with Brits in Spain and, say, Somali communities coming to the UK is affluence.

Generally speaking, aside from holidaymakers, Brits in Spain don't really cause problems. They aren't reliant on welfare, they aren't really causing issues with crime or gangs and contribute to the economy. Whilst it would be nice if every single Brit who moved to Spain learned the language, and we could probably do better with immersing ourselves in the culture, it's a very different argument because it's a very different group of people.

 

Are you seriously not aware of British criminals/gangsters/murderers/sex offenders etc. hiding out in Spain? Bristol's very own gold finger spent time in Espana.

[Phileas Fogg]

40 minutes ago, sglosbcfc said:

Are you seriously not aware of British criminals/gangsters/murderers/sex offenders etc. hiding out in Spain? Bristol's very own gold finger spent time in Espana.

Of course, and I suspected someone would make that point. In the scheme of things though, it’s not a high percentage relative to the many many Brits who visit/reside in Spain.

[TRUEBRIT66]

Here's a idea give the tickets to the school so the school can arrange chaperoning, that way all colours, religions and nationalities can attend you target potential football supporters not a particular demographic. Make it a day out tour of the ground, meet and greet, flags etc.  If the child enjoys it he goes home to Mum or Dad and asks to go again if they don't you would hope they still had a good day and when their old enough to attend with out a guardian they remember the day and go back to the gate.

Perhaps, just perhaps the whole football thing don't suit certain cultures, alcohol plays a big part in the day and the celebrations would not suit some individuals, the hugging thing sounds great but in certain religions that wouldn't go down well.   

[richwwtk]

23 minutes ago, TRUEBRIT66 said:

Here's a idea give the tickets to the school so the school can arrange chaperoning, that way all colours, religions and nationalities can attend you target potential football supporters not a particular demographic. Make it a day out tour of the ground, meet and greet, flags etc.  If the child enjoys it he goes home to Mum or Dad and asks to go again if they don't you would hope they still had a good day and when their old enough to attend with out a guardian they remember the day and go back to the gate.

Perhaps, just perhaps the whole football thing don't suit certain cultures, alcohol plays a big part in the day and the celebrations would not suit some individuals, the hugging thing sounds great but in certain religions that wouldn't go down well.   

Via the schools is probably a good way to go, but you would still get plenty of people complaining about targeting certain demographics according to the chosen schools.

I think you'll find football is popular in virtually all cultures around the world. Alcohol may play a big part of the day for some, but I would guess that for the majority it's a very minor part, and are you really trying to say people might not go to a match for fear of being hugged?

[AshtonPark]

41 minutes ago, richwwtk said:

Via the schools is probably a good way to go, but you would still get plenty of people complaining about targeting certain demographics according to the chosen schools.

I think you'll find football is popular in virtually all cultures around the world. Alcohol may play a big part of the day for some, but I would guess that for the majority it's a very minor part, and are you really trying to say people might not go to a match for fear of being hugged?

He’s got a point, I imagine if your taking a very hard line slamic view then seeing blokes hugging each other might not be deemed acceptable.

In the UAE a women can and does go to Prison for a bloke putting his hand on her shoulder etc. 

[richwwtk]

3 minutes ago, AshtonPark said:

He’s got a point, I imagine if your taking a very hard line slamic view then seeing blokes hugging each other might not be deemed acceptable.

In the UAE a women can and does go to Prison for a bloke putting his hand on her shoulder etc. 

I'm pretty sure the hard line Muslims that would be offended by it wouldn't dream of going in the first place, they are probably against competitive sport on principle!

The vast, vast majority of people that aren't quite so extreme however.......

[TRUEBRIT66]

2 hours ago, richwwtk said:

Via the schools is probably a good way to go, but you would still get plenty of people complaining about targeting certain demographics according to the chosen schools.

I think you'll find football is popular in virtually all cultures around the world. Alcohol may play a big part of the day for some, but I would guess that for the majority it's a very minor part, and are you really trying to say people might not go to a match for fear of being hugged?

Christ you'd argue with a sign post I sometimes wonder if you really are serious or just on a wind up, you know what I mean on both counts, and give them to all schools in all communities (obviously not all at the same time).

I cant think of anything more divisive than targeting a particular community. I bet your more likely to get a Somolian lad wanting to going to football with his school mates and what's to say they are not white British and Christian but your advocating targeting single communities  

 

[PHILINFRANCE]

3 hours ago, AshtonPark said:

He’s got a point, I imagine if your taking a very hard line slamic view then seeing blokes hugging each other might not be deemed acceptable.

In the UAE a women can and does go to Prison for a bloke putting his hand on her shoulder etc. 

Well, she would say that, wouldn't she?

A drunken slapper in downtown Bristol might, perhaps, get her photo in The Sun - The Emirates, including Dubai, have slightly different moral standards.

[PHILINFRANCE]

19 hours ago, Bristol Rob said:

Maybe you could do a story on this.

'City fans would love to see Diversity (but not those blokes what dance)'

You mean like these blokes dancing?

 

[bcdc]

On 6 August 2018 at 12:02, Pezo said:

But some might just because they go to university or simply have moved to the city, I don't know why we would specifically reach out to one minority when we should be reaching out to the whole city.

Because reaching out to the whole city means reaching out to the minorities as well as reaching out to the majority community.  Simple, generic appeals are likely to be oriented to the overall majority. In some respects, being appealing to the minorities may not be specitfic in any way, for instance, success on the pitch may well transmit itself pretty much equally all communities; but we could expect that specific appeals could be crafted if minority groups are under-represented among City fans, for instance, extra reassurance that their presence would not be overtly resented, or even, as the OP suggests, by having players who are members of minorities.  None of this , for me, is to say that the majority should be neglected, but to be truly inclusive you need  to consider targeted other appeals, or, if you like, marketing activity.

[underhanded]

4 hours ago, TRUEBRIT66 said:

Christ you'd argue with a sign post I sometimes wonder if you really are serious or just on a wind up, you know what I mean on both counts, and give them to all schools in all communities (obviously not all at the same time).

I cant think of anything more divisive than targeting a particular community. I bet your more likely to get a Somolian lad wanting to going to football with his school mates and what's to say they are not white British and Christian but your advocating targeting single communities  

 

Specific communities and demographics are specifically targeted all the time in outreach and community work. Christ, it's even how pretty much all marketing/comms and public engagement works. If you want to argue this approach you'll have to argue with basic social science that's been around for decades.

 

[TRUEBRIT66]

22 minutes ago, underhanded said:

Specific communities and demographics are specifically targeted all the time in outreach and community work. Christ, it's even how pretty much all marketing/comms and public engagement works. If you want to argue this approach you'll have to argue with basic social science that's been around for decades.

 

I don't want to argue with bugger all I'm agreeing, what is it with the do gooder wannabe social workers on this site. 

Give the tickets to ALL the kids in Easton school, not just certain individuals based on skin colour or nationality. I don't give a monkeys chuff about marketing and comms if you want to create division for future generations singling out certain communities over others is divisive.  

[underhanded]

@TRUEBRIT66 The divisions already exist, due to a myriad of factors. It's simply catering your engagement in a way that means its not completely wasted. Community work is hard, and can often fall flat because people don't want to engage with stuff that doesn't appeal to them. I'm sure, for example, the clubs engagement with senior reds differs somewhat in its approach to its engagement with the kids (and I don't see anyone screaming about it being divisive there).