Lrrr Posted August 7, 2018 Report Share Posted August 7, 2018 1 hour ago, phantom said: I liked the way ITV West news described him as acting like a football hooligan, I wonder where the first football fan playing up gets described as acting like an English cricketer Couldn't have just said hooligan etc and be accurate instead had to to label it as football, standard media Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 Not sure if I’ve missed someone pointing it out but besides the doorman’s allegations that Stokes was antagonisng the gay pair and threw a cigarette end at one he’s also on video (No sound) making gestures that appear to show him mocking them The prosecution ( @cidercity1987 ). are legitimately and sensibly building a strong case to show that rather than any self defence Stokes , had lost the plot and was basically spoiling for a fight The eventual confrontation when Ali has a bottle in his hand gives Stokes initially a very decent case for self defence of him or another The video footage showing him punching Ali and Hale in the middle of the street is a different matter entirely and for the life of me with the best QC in the world can’t see any decent argument for self defence at that point His behaviour prior to the incident has painted a bad picture and I would suggest very damaging His initial defence of ‘I was defending the gay guys’ sounds reasonable and a decent one It appears his interaction himself with the Sam men damages that and his assault on them in the middle of the street has no correlation to any defence of the gay men at that point I think he’s stuffed The only red herring is that I read at one point Hale had pulled off / got hold of a piece of a sign as a weapon and I’d be concentrating on that and the fact ‘ there were two of them’ in my self defence claims Its very very thin , and a long shot at best IMHO He was punishing them and showing who was top dog I think he will (He Certainly should) get convicted and I think he will just escape a custodial sentence (Suspended ?) But it wouldn’t shock me with the charges and the actual details if he didn’t get a short custodial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 15 hours ago, phantom said: I liked the way ITV West news described him as acting like a football hooligan, I wonder where the first football fan playing up gets described as acting like an English cricketer 14 hours ago, hodge said: Couldn't have just said hooligan etc and be accurate instead had to to label it as football, standard media To be fair It was a witness who described them as ‘acting like football hooligans’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted August 8, 2018 Admin Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 9 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: To be fair It was a witness who described them as ‘acting like football hooligans’ Same point though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, phantom said: Same point though The label ? I agree but not unsurprising , Just pointing out that the press were merely reporting what the witness described - they aren’t going to edit their testimony to appease ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 18 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Not sure if I’ve missed someone pointing it out but besides the doorman’s allegations that Stokes was antagonisng the gay pair and threw a cigarette end at one he’s also on video (No sound) making gestures that appear to show him mocking them The prosecution ( @cidercity1987 ). are legitimately and sensibly building a strong case to show that rather than any self defence Stokes , had lost the plot and was basically spoiling for a fight The eventual confrontation when Ali has a bottle in his hand gives Stokes initially a very decent case for self defence of him or another The video footage showing him punching Ali and Hale in the middle of the street is a different matter entirely and for the life of me with the best QC in the world can’t see any decent argument for self defence at that point His behaviour prior to the incident has painted a bad picture and I would suggest very damaging His initial defence of ‘I was defending the gay guys’ sounds reasonable and a decent one It appears his interaction himself with the Sam men damages that and his assault on them in the middle of the street has no correlation to any defence of the gay men at that point I think he’s stuffed The only red herring is that I read at one point Hale had pulled off / got hold of a piece of a sign as a weapon and I’d be concentrating on that and the fact ‘ there were two of them’ in my self defence claims Its very very thin , and a long shot at best IMHO He was punishing them and showing who was top dog I think he will (He Certainly should) get convicted and I think he will just escape a custodial sentence (Suspended ?) But it wouldn’t shock me with the charges and the actual details if he didn’t get a short custodial Think that's a fair assesment - its almost as if we're looking at two seperate incidents - the first part is possibly acceptable the second part (i.e. the hitting them as they walk away) like you I don't see how he can defend. Are the couple in question appearing at court, surely given they must be..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 8 minutes ago, Tomarse said: Think that's a fair assesment - its almost as if we're looking at two seperate incidents - the first part is possibly acceptable the second part (i.e. the hitting them as they walk away) like you I don't see how he can defend. Are the couple in question appearing at court, surely given they must be..? Yep Even the prosecution have pointed out that if the incident had stopped after the initial scuffle then Stokes would have a very reasonable claim of self defence and the matter wouldn’t be before the courts The second incident is a definite second matter Where is Stokes going to claim he felt under threat and had to defend himself ? Im not ‘judging’ him but he was clearly p’d off and agitated and having lost it for a minute had the final,say Ali and Hale clearly we’re acting up and bit off more than they could chew The one thing he may have to mitigate on was that both assaults were a single punch But good ones at that ouch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Yep Even the prosecution have pointed out that if the incident had stopped after the initial scuffle then Stokes would have a very reasonable claim of self defence and the matter wouldn’t be before the courts The second incident is a definite second matter Where is Stokes going to claim he felt under threat and had to defend himself ? Im not ‘judging’ him but he was clearly p’d off and agitated and having lost it for a minute had the final,say Ali and Hale clearly we’re acting up and bit off more than they could chew The one thing he may have to mitigate on was that both assaults were a single punch But good ones at that ouch Stokes is deep in the shit no doubt. Probably get a hefty fine and lengthy community service. It’s what action the ECB will take if he gets convicted ( that’s very likely). He’ll be facing a ban. Just a question for how long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicki's soulmate Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 I think Stokes should be banged up for going out in a green t-shirt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 1 minute ago, Nicki's soulmate said: I think Stokes should be banged up for going to Mbargos Fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 7 minutes ago, Robbored said: Stokes is deep in the shit no doubt. Probably get a hefty fine and lengthy community service. It’s what action the ECB will take if he gets convicted ( that’s very likely). He’ll be facing a ban. Just a question for how long. Affray is quite a serious charge mind RR and will often attract a prison sentence What may save him from a custodial (Rightly so IMHO) was Single punches No weapon used In some ways he’s a lucky boy with the effectiveness of the punches he threw Every year in just about every City someone dies as a result of a single punch as they are ‘laid’ out with the back of their head (Weakest spot) whiplashing onto concrete in Late night brawls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 13 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Affray is quite a serious charge mind RR and will often attract a prison sentence I’m not familiar with certain aspects of the law. I couldn’t tell you the difference between affray and GBH. Stokes fractured the guys eye socket so I’d have assumed that was GBH.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, Robbored said: I’m not familiar with certain aspects of the law. I couldn’t tell you the difference between affray and GBH. Stokes fractured the guys eye socket so I’d have assumed that was GBH.............. Affray is in summary his overall behaviour (with at least one other) acting with violence (Needs to be 2 or more persons) that would frighten the law abiding member of public As for the actual assault they have raised the threshold for GBH charging (ABH Is simpler to prove and still carries max of 5yrs so adequate in vast majority of cases) - its ‘serious injury’ and ironically a broken bone was normally one threshold that could trigger it I assume that Fractured Eye socket would be regarded as an ABH these days Ive missed whether he’s actually been charged specifically with ABH ? but if he hasn’t it’s merely because sentencing for affray provides more than adequate sentencing options in these circumstances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 Off duty cop who intervened is about to give evidence, should be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 Mirror guy not in court today tweeting but another good one to follow: https://twitter.com/SaraHajibagheri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olé Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Even the prosecution have pointed out that if the incident had stopped after the initial scuffle then Stokes would have a very reasonable claim of self defence and the matter wouldn’t be before the courts The second incident is a definite second matter There's more to it than that - the prosecution has highlighted the behaviour from Stokes when he returned to the bar, which preceded EVERYTHING. That's critical to all the events. I'm biased due to my connection to one of the other defendants, but does anything happen without Stokes returning? Bear in mind the other defendants were in the bar for an hour prior to that, as were the gay couple, with zero issues. In fact I'm told they'd all chatted. We're also told as a matter of record they all left the bar at closing time at the same time, again no issues. Everything started when they met Stokes. Despite the bottle/bar, I cannot believe a scuffle was initiated out of the blue by the other two, when it's Stokes who was already outside in a temper. Seems to me from the chronology of the prosecution story, that's what they're emphasising too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, Olé said: There's more to it than that - the prosecution has highlighted the behaviour from Stokes when he returned to the bar, which preceded EVERYTHING. That's critical to all the events. I'm biased due to my connection to one of the other defendants, but does anything happen without Stokes returning? Bear in mind the other defendants were in the bar for an hour prior to that, as were the gay couple, with zero issues. In fact I'm told they'd all chatted. We're also told as a matter of record they all left the bar at closing time at the same time, again no issues. Everything started when they met Stokes. Despite the bottle/bar, I cannot believe a scuffle was initiated out of the blue by the other two, when it's Stokes who was already outside in a temper. Seems to me from the chronology of the prosecution story, that's what they're emphasising too. Like all of us not there Ole I can only read the evidence and watch the video But fwiw I agree with you - that’s the impression and picture I get Stokes can’t get back in Club ; becomes agitated , annoyed Whether there was anything between that gay blokes and Ali and Hale it appears that Stokes was looking/ spoiling for someone / something to take his anger out on Thought Alex Hales didn’t do a very good job helping or controlling his mate either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 At Bristol Crown Court for day 3 of #BenStokes trial - prosecution have been going through cctv. Former soldier Ryan Hale was filmed running towards Ben Stokes carrying a metal bar moments after being knocked down by the England cricketer who punched him. That May help muddy the waters / greatly assist Stokes self defence claim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 4 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Like all of us not there Ole I can only read the evidence and watch the video But fwiw I agree with you - that’s the impression and picture I get Stokes can’t get back in Club ; becomes agitated , annoyed Whether there was anything between that gay blokes and Ali and Hale it appears that Stokes was looking/ spoiling for someone / something to take his anger out on Thought Alex Hales didn’t do a very good job helping or controlling his mate either Think he's a very lucky guy not to be included in all this, wasn't he kicking a guy while he was down after everything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 Just now, hodge said: Think he's a very lucky guy not to be included in all this, wasn't he kicking a guy while he was down after everything? He appears to on the video I remember thinking wtf is that - it was more of a probing toe poke I can only assume (And only supposition) (And would have been my defence if Hales) that he was trying to knock the bottle out of Ali’s hand to protect everyone For a big bloke He actually comes across as a bit of a girls blouse in it all Personally - If Stokes was my mate you stop him, grab hold of him , and if necessary give him the choice whether to assault you or leave it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olé Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 8 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: At Bristol Crown Court for day 3 of #BenStokes trial - prosecution have been going through cctv. Former soldier Ryan Hale was filmed running towards Ben Stokes carrying a metal bar moments after being knocked down by the England cricketer who punched him. That May help muddy the waters / Stokes self defence claim Yep... this is 100% what I was waiting to hear confirmed. There's been lots about carrying metal bars, without explaining it's after he'd been attacked. He shouldn't have done it, no question, but this is after he got sparked out by the cricketer, having done nothing. FWIW he served in Afghanistan too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, Olé said: Yep... this is 100% what I was waiting to hear confirmed. There's been lots about carrying metal bars, without explaining it's after he'd been attacked. He shouldn't have done it, no question, but this is after he got sparked out by the cricketer, having done nothing. FWIW he served in Afghanistan too. As I read it then Ole (We havnt seen the CCTV) He gets punched (shown in the mobile phone footage) and then ? gets the piece of street sign / metal bar ? If so it doesn’t help Stokes with his self defence claim when he punched him and would go a long way to explaining Hales being charged with affray As far as I can see no assault charges have been laid and I’m not sure self defence is going to help any of them , particularly Stokes and Hale Ill make it clear I’m not judging any of them - Blokes on a night out get caught in rumpus shock In honesty if Stokes hadn’t been involved I’m not convinced a5 all that this would have ended up in the courts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 Havnt seen this bit before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 Here’s the original video again for those interested Even setting aside events up to 42s in , at that point , possibly before , Stokes , in my view is clearly on the attack and unable to claim his actions were self defence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted August 8, 2018 Admin Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 22 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Havnt seen this bit before Seems like nothing more than a bit of banter there - it looks like he drops his fag, is that where he was supposed to have flicked it at the guy? Am intrigued how it went from the first video where it seems good natured to the second one - surely somewhere up Park Street must have had CCTV? PS Is this video playing at normal speed? People seem a bit wobbly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 15 minutes ago, phantom said: Seems like nothing more than a bit of banter there - it looks like he drops his fag, is that where he was supposed to have flicked it at the guy? Am intrigued how it went from the first video where it seems good natured to the second one - surely somewhere up Park Street must have had CCTV? PS Is this video playing at normal speed? People seem a bit wobbly Without audio it’s mpoosible to tell. Stokes seems shake someone’s hand towards the end. Surely the two persons in question should be able to state what happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted August 8, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 One is already starting to question the wisdom of his 'not guilty' plea. The footage really does speak for itself. Still, it's a jury I suppose so on any given day who knows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted August 8, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, Tomarse said: Without audio it’s mpoosible to tell. Stokes seems shake someone’s hand towards the end. Surely the two persons in question should be able to state what happened One of the bouncers. The other bouncer refuses to shake his hand (the one Stokes called a *** because he didn't let him in) and then Stokes walks off with his chin in the air and teeth stuck out mocking the bouncer. Surely, another significant problem Stokes has in terms of his defence is that it is obvious he was absolutely steaming! I'd be interested to know what his answer was to the "how many drinks had you had?" question. Must have been double figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undy English Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 Thanks for posting both videos. R.E. the apparent 'mocking' evidence, it really is impossible to say what's going on without audio. Just looks like banter to me, but I'm sure all present in the video can testify as to what went down. Video number 2, the scrap itself, Stokes is clearly on the attack, and granted, does continue his assault when the men are backing off, no question. That said, when the video starts, Stokes seems to be a bystander before getting involved. Assuming something happened in these few seconds that prompted his intervention - no doubt his 'No Guilty' plea will be linked to these important moments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 45 minutes ago, phantom said: Seems like nothing more than a bit of banter there - it looks like he drops his fag, is that where he was supposed to have flicked it at the guy? Am intrigued how it went from the first video where it seems good natured to the second one - surely somewhere up Park Street must have had CCTV? PS Is this video playing at normal speed? People seem a bit wobbly It appears there is And the jury have seen it but not in public domain 28 minutes ago, Tomarse said: Without audio it’s mpoosible to tell. Stokes seems shake someone’s hand towards the end. Surely the two persons in question should be able to state what happened Likely we will Tom although they’re witnesses and not compelled to give evidence of course From the Prosecutions opening and the suggestion / claim Stokes mimicked the pair etc I would assume the prosecution know what they will say as witnesses if they are to appear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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