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About 10 million pounds up

BCFCGav

By BCFCGav
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Phileas Fogg

Phileas Fogg

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, BCFCGav said:

We’re 10 mil up (give or take, not all details are released and some are estimates). Could well be about to become 15-16 million with Joe off. So two things:

Firstly; some great business done. To be in such profit and still have a squad of similar ability (imo) is excellent. 

Secondly; should we expect more signings? A LB seems logical, though I really rate Kelly, so maybe an older head who can just compete with Lloyd and help his development. Maybe spend ~2mill there. Maybe bank the rest for the future?

I think it would do a lot for fan confidence if we made a couple of big ambitious signings in the next few days.

Don’t think we will, but it would reassure the fans that we’re a club who want progress. If it stays as it is, we’ll look like a selling club who are happy to tread water. 

After January, and now with all these departures, I think the club need to regain the fans trust in the transfer market. 

If we’re steady mid table, I am not sure whether we’ll break 20,000 that many times. I think attendances will fall and a bit of apathy will set in. 

The player departures were fairly inevitable, but obviously it stings a bit when it’s two successful academy players and a cult hero defender. I think we’ve bought well, but the club has a chance (and the funds) to bring in a couple of big signings.

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Monkeh

Monkeh

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Ive just seen on twitter that Lansdown has pumped in another £3.7m to cover last year’s losses. 

So , just for some out there why he isn’t splashing the cash , we still aren’t sustainable yet and won’t be for some time by the look of it. 

7FBBC4EA-A03E-470D-B755-FE2366E24006.png

he covers the bottom line loses every season, if it were 3 million he'd pump 13 million to keep the loss a 25 million

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Redtucks

Redtucks

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, Bri Stool City said:

If you don't take a chance you will never cross the road, who knows if we were to take a chance we might like it when we get to the otherside.

Tell that to the hedgehogs that get splattered in the middle of the road!!!

 

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted

Have had a look into the figures in a bit more depth- based on the most widely assumed fees/widest reported:

Incoming:

  • Webster- £3.6m reported in places, 4 year deal. Annual Cost of Amortisation Added- £900,000. Though if it's £5m (add-ons or straight up)? £1.25m per year.
  • Weimann- £2.03m reported, 3 year deal. Annual Cost of Amortisation Added- £676,666 basically.
  • Eisa- £1.53m reported, 3 year deal. Annual Cost of Amortisation Added- £510,000.
  • Hunt- seen £1.53m reported, 3 year deal. Annual Cost of Amortisation Added- £510,000.
  • Watkins- read £990,000 reported, 3 year deal. Annual Cost of Amortisation Added- £330,000.

Adelukan came on a free but we may have to pay compensation due to his age- so zero for now. Free transfers who knows what the signing on fees, if any are. Maenpaa the same in the sense of signing-on fee and how much or little?

Total Additional Amortisation (Est)

£2,922,666.

Outgoing:

  • Reid- £10.22m to Cardiff reported somewhere. Profit £10.22m
  • Flint-seems to be anything from £5m-£7.2m depending where you read. Reduced Annual Cost of Amortisation- negligible, maybe £10-50k?
  • Engvall- assume we got a nominal fee at most. Though depending where you read we paid somewhere between £1.44-£2.52m for him. 3 year deal. Reduced Annual Cost of Amortisation- Anything from £480,000-£840,000.
  • Magnússon- Hard to gauge. Going to go with the most reported figures. We paid £2.5m for him and received £2,193,000 (euro conversion to £ at the time). (Estimated) Reduced Cost of Amortisation £833,333.
  • Bryan (if/when he goes)- £6m. Profit £6m.
  • Djuric (if the reported fees in and out are accurate). £625,000. Reduced Annual Cost of Amortisation £576,000.

Of those released:

  • O'Neil- A saving on wages only.
  • Golbourne- Reduced (Est) Annual Cost of Amortisation- £142,400.
  • Garita- (Est) Reduced Annual Cost of Amortisation- £25,200.

Plus:

  • Steele Gone (Nearly a full season)- Wages Saved.
  • Kent Gone (Here for roughly half a season)- Wages Saved.
  • Woodrow Gone (Was here for full season)- Wages Saved.
  • Diony Gone (Here for roughly half a season)- Wages Saved.

No idea of the wages but we must have saved a bit here!

Total Decreased Amortisation (Est)

£2,056,933 UP TO £2,356,933

Net Amortisation change:

UP- Anything from at most £866,033 to least £566,033.

Net Income/Improvement (excluding wages as we can only guess most- before things like sell on clauses etc), when adjusted for amortisation etc is something like:

Depending on the structure of the Flint fee, and the cost of Amortisation differentials I suggest something in the range of:

£23,171,967 at the lower end to £25,671,967.

This doesn't as I said include wages, and given I'm not an accountant maybe there's some key parts I'm missing without realising, but anyway it's a hefty improvement for sure to say the least. Not saying we can have a huge transfer budget because of wages, losses and that though maybe come Summer 2019 a bigger one?

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BigAl&Toby

BigAl&Toby

Posted
Posted
On 06/08/2018 at 23:04, Mr Popodopolous said:

According to Companies House

Ashton Gate Limited? Person of Significant Control is Bristol City Holdings Limited

Bristol City Football Club Person of Significant Control is Bristol City Holdings Limited

The person with Significant Control when it comes to Bristol City Holdings Limited? SL.

Ergo, SL owns the ground ultimately surely?

Spot on.

And it shouldn’t be that ******* difficult for even Stevie Wonder to see this.

Bristol City Football Club now owns **** all of any value. All assets - players and ground - are owned by numerous holdings companies where Lansdown is the ultimate beneficial owner.

Might well be true of many other/all clubs now but whilst he’s making us all so proud he’s also making lots of money/increasing his overall net worth.....

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Eddie Hitler

Eddie Hitler

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, BigAlToby&Liam said:

Spot on.

And it shouldn’t be that ******* difficult for even Stevie Wonder to see this.

Bristol City Football Club now owns **** all of any value. All assets - players and ground - are owned by numerous holdings companies where Lansdown is the ultimate beneficial owner.

Might well be true of many other/all clubs now but whilst he’s making us all so proud he’s also making lots of money/increasing his overall net worth.....

Come on! He is not profiting from City; it has cost him a fortune c.£100m that he won't see back from selling the club.

The only way Steve will ever see his money back is if we get promoted and spend a good few profitable years in the premiership.

Which I don't think will make any fans unhappy.

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, BigAlToby&Liam said:

Spot on.

And it shouldn’t be that ******* difficult for even Stevie Wonder to see this.

Bristol City Football Club now owns **** all of any value. All assets - players and ground - are owned by numerous holdings companies where Lansdown is the ultimate beneficial owner.

Might well be true of many other/all clubs now but whilst he’s making us all so proud he’s also making lots of money/increasing his overall net worth.....

Not convinced he's making a profit from us, given the losses at which we run each year and have for years too.

I suppose the danger of it in so far as there could be a danger (and I don't think he'd do this for a second) is owning the ground and the assets...if he ever went rogue, lost interest or similar he would have a nice asset base to develop on, to sell etc etc- and I guess if it ever came to pass that he sold the club, which came with ground etc if an unscrupulous owner took charge then it would be a scenario.

(We are a million miles away from that IMO).

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BigAl&Toby

BigAl&Toby

Posted
Posted
57 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Not convinced he's making a profit from us, given the losses at which we run each year and have for years too.

I suppose the danger of it in so far as there could be a danger (and I don't think he'd do this for a second) is owning the ground and the assets...if he ever went rogue, lost interest or similar he would have a nice asset base to develop on, to sell etc etc- and I guess if it ever came to pass that he sold the club, which came with ground etc if an unscrupulous owner took charge then it would be a scenario.

(We are a million miles away from that IMO).

I agree with that. Thing is though it’s like any long term investment. Might well be content to make a short term “cash loss” for a far greater long term benefit or legacy.

Like a farmer. Often quite rightly talking about their year on year losses whilst longer term they see a hidden increase in their balance sheet.

Let’s face it. He’s an intelligent and shrewd man. If he couldn’t sustain the loss and see a longer term benefit he wouldn’t be doing it.

If not SL, JL or JL Junior a Lansdown will, at some stage, benefit from SL’s investment in Bristol Sport.

I just wish that the investment was made solely in BCFC......

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EnderMB

EnderMB

Posted
Posted

In terms of annual figures, they are fantastic.

In the long term, it probably doesn't mean anything new. The assumption is that the money we've made from selling players will be reinvested in the squad in regards to offering competitive wages. This will mean that the club have a 2-3 year plan to push the club towards the goal of Premier League football. 

If the money side is good, then it's all down to the football side. LJ needs to take the squad we've got right now (minus JB) and get 11th or higher to keep his job. If he does well up to January, then the club can proceed with future investment.

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ashton_fan

ashton_fan

Posted
Posted
On 06/08/2018 at 20:10, BCFCGav said:

We’re 10 mil up (give or take, not all details are released and some are estimates). Could well be about to become 15-16 million with Joe off. So two things:

Firstly; some great business done. To be in such profit and still have a squad of similar ability (imo) is excellent. 

Secondly; should we expect more signings? A LB seems logical, though I really rate Kelly, so maybe an older head who can just compete with Lloyd and help his development. Maybe spend ~2mill there. Maybe bank the rest for the future?

The 10 mil is enough to pay about half the wage bill. The season we made all that money on Kodjia we still made a loss, we have to bring on young players and sell them for a profit to remain within the FFP rules.

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, ashton_fan said:

The 10 mil is enough to pay about half the wage bill. The season we made all that money on Kodjia we still made a loss, we have to bring on young players and sell them for a profit to remain within the FFP rules.

They are rolling losses however.

£39m over 3 years. £13m/year.

Put simply if we lose say £6.5m in Year 1, then we can lose £32.5m over the coming 2 years- £16.25m per year.

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ashton_fan

ashton_fan

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

They are rolling losses however.

£39m over 3 years. £13m/year.

Put simply if we lose say £6.5m in Year 1, then we can lose £32.5m over the coming 2 years- £16.25m per year.

But then in year 4 you can only lose £6.5M so it's best not to exceed £13M by too much in any one season.

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Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
On 07/08/2018 at 11:25, Williams' Penalty said:

Makes for really good reading. I hope that the Lansdown haters on this thread do have a good read of this, as it shows just how much he does put into the club, and also demonstrates how much we are growing and increasing in financial sustainability.

When I look back on it the position we are in now is remarkable, this club is on a real upward trajectory and I believe the combination of Lee, Mark and Steve is leading to the creation of a hugely sustainable and professional Championship club. 

If this progress continues, I think in a few years we will be viewed as one of the Championship "big guns" or we will have been promoted, one of the two. 

After hitting so many lows in our history I can't describe how grateful I am for what Lansdown has done for our club, we are truly blessed to have such a great owner. (Just look at what most clubs have got, especially the gas!)

Agree with a lot of this.  The only fly in the ointment is too many clubs having parachute payments and that skews the division away from our prudent approach.

31 minutes ago, ashton_fan said:

But then in year 4 you can only lose £6.5M so it's best not to exceed £13M by too much in any one season.

Exactly....if you have two good years and go mad in year three and fail, you are hamstrung by year three in years four and five.

I love this subject matter (without fully understanding it all), because it shows the stark reality of this division, Bristol City’s place in it, and why we aren’t after player x or player y that those posters on here think we should be getting just because we’ve got a ‘net spend’ of £10m+....which is irrelevant.

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted

Was going to update this yesterday given the amended fees for Djuric and Bryan (a rise to £900,000 and £6.3m respectively)- but frankly I felt quite deflated looking at the window as a whole, so couldn't be bothered.

That's another £575,000 to add to the Net Improvement (of course wages might eat into this).

Depending on the structure of the Flint fee, and the cost of Amortisation differentials I suggest something in the range of:

£23,746,967 at the lower end to £26,246,967 at the highest.

There's probably one Championship League table we might win this year...?

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jimmyb

jimmyb

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

On the money front, found this when looking for something else- could it help explain the big sales this summer?

https://www.mikethornton.xyz/new-ffp-tests/

So if I’m reading that right would it be fair to say that pretty much everyone fails Tests 1 & 2?

In our case we are under no threat as we have a business plan showing (a) that we have sufficent funding secured (presumably from SL directly) to meet our obligations and (b) a plan to reduce the ongoing debts to within FFP limits - selling players, increased revenue etc...

Those Club’s in trouble are those that can’t provide any assurance to this effect - coincidentally those clubs with less, shall we say, ‘reliable’ owners.

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chinapig

chinapig

Posted
Posted
38 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

On the money front, found this when looking for something else- could it help explain the big sales this summer?

https://www.mikethornton.xyz/new-ffp-tests/

Thanks, this is really helpful.

Worth pinning for the benefit of those who keep demanding we spend big on fees and especially wages while apparently completely unaware that FFP exists.

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