Inevitable, but terrible / Disappointing transfer window (Merged)

[lenred]

54 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Ive been married for 40 years, and this thread feels like I'm reliving every year of it it - never start an argument with someone that will never concede that they are , or might be wrong.

Only 2 rules in our house:

Rule 1: Mrs Downend is always right

Rule 2: When Mrs Downend is wrong then rule 1 applies.

Think this also applies to one or two posters on here!

 

For what it's worth, if we received £23/24 m for Reid, Bryan and Flint, how could we replace them with what some fans would regard as equal or better, because logic implies that we would have to shell out the same sort of money for 3 players of equal quality and ability. It would also mean paying the sort of wages Reid , Flint and Reid have been given by their new clubs and this would blow our wage budget out of the water on it's own, let alone the problem of every other player i the squad wanting an uplift in their wages commensurate with what those 3 players would be getting.

The very harsh financial reality of the championship is that we have to buy as smart as we can ( not the same as doing it on the cheap, as the club's critics love to suggest). Up until this window this strategy has tended to be bringing on academy players, which I hope and am sure will continue, but also buying the much derided "ones for the future". The interesting change this summer has been the club bringing in championship experienced players for decent fees, and presumably decent wages.

This might be because LJ has had more of a say in transfer policy. It has also happened  because of the transfer money we've received, but I think also because the clubs income has improved thanks to the stadium redevelopment so  I suspect we are now able to afford much stronger wages for the right players. 

With such a change in personal in the summer, in particular the loss of 3 previously key players, the start of this season is bound to be an uncertain one. It is the chance for other players to step up to the plate and take their chance. Elliasson looks to have stated the season well, and getting a couple of early goals will hopefully have given Weimann a confidence boost and his experience could be a valuable asset.

Long established players like Reid, Bran and Flint can be a dominant factor in a dressing room. I'm not suggesting anything sinister, but new players in particular can be intimidated by strong and established personalities, so their departures might give other players the chance to come out of their shells and new players to settle quicker.

I think we have a better squad than we've had for some time and am hoping that new players settle quickly so that the first 11 does not miss those players that have left - that's  a tough act to follow, but am looking forward to the new season with the usual mixture of excitement and trepidation.

  

 

 

 

 

Sounds like we’re with the same woman!!

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

If football was all about simply buying players who are better than the ones you already have, then everyone would improve, but of course that isn’t possible.  There are 92 clubs, and for everyone that goes up, One is bound to come down.  Football is about maximising your resources to create a squad who, together, will be successful.  How many clubs have bought guaranteed success?  How did Bournemouth get promotion?  How did Leicester win the Premiership?  Because of the cyclical nature of football, teams are constantly changing, but the success is to build something special in a squad of players.  

Not everyone is solely motivated by money, and you can’t hold players in captivity any more.

We need to wait and see if the squad that Lee has put in place gels, but you won’t be able to predict their success purely on the basis of their ability as individuals.

Actually, I think Webster will be better then Flint, and Kelly may well turn out to be better than Bryan.  Bobby Reid was something else, and I believe he deserved his shot at the Premiership and, because of him, I will be hoping that Cardiff do well this  year (though I suspect they won’t).

[downendcity]

2 minutes ago, lenred said:

Sounds like we’re with the same woman!!

You sure?

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Actually, I think Webster will be better then Flint, and Kelly may well turn out to be better than Bryan.  Bobby Reid was something else, and I believe he deserved his shot at the Premiership and, because of him, I will be hoping that Cardiff do well this  year (though I suspect they won’t).

In the short term, medium term or long term?

Because if it's the latter especially and perhaps the medium term then maybe it will turn out that way. Right now? Can't see it. 

Agree on Reid too- all but Cardiff doing well! Hope he does well but Cardiff are down by Easter!

[Kid in the Riot]

40 minutes ago, Sturny said:

Because Bryan is recognised as an even bigger serious talent. Hence why he's now in the premier league. Fulham and Vila both realised that and went for Bryan first and Vila went for Dasilva after. 

Are you claiming Dasilva is better? I could agree that Dasilva could potentially become a better serious talent in a few years but right now I don't believe he's better. 

Is he, by whom? DaSilva is already at a Premier League club. A very big Premier League Club. He also plays for England under 20s and has played through all the age groups from 16s. Aston Villa are a Championship club, like us. Fulham are a club new to the Premier League and have to take a punt on players that aren't proven at the level they're going to play at next season. They've gone for Bryan based on experience I'd say, not necessarily potential or talent. They know what they're going to get with JB. We don't with DaSilva, but it is perfectly possible we get something better as we did with Tammy versus Kodjia, for example...an example you highlighted !

[ExiledAjax]

27 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Not even certain Bryan will be a regular starter

He is their only dedicated LB. They don't really have a viable back up as they won't drop Sessegnon back anymore. If they want to rest Bryan then it will be a left-sided CB who takes his place (subject to loans or youth players).

This is what I have been told by more than one Fulham fan.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

He is their only dedicated LB. They don't really have a viable back up as they won't drop Sessegnon back anymore. If they want to rest Bryan then it will be a left-sided CB who takes his place (subject to loans or youth players).

This is what I have been told by more than one Fulham fan.

Le Marchand?

[Monkeh]

2 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

He is their only dedicated LB. They don't really have a viable back up as they won't drop Sessegnon back anymore. If they want to rest Bryan then it will be a left-sided CB who takes his place (subject to loans or youth players).

This is what I have been told by more than one Fulham fan.

you're assuming they plan to play a flat back 4,

Joe can play left back left midfield centre midfield, left wing back  there a number of positions he can fill

[ExiledAjax]

4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Le Marchand?

 

3 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

you're assuming they plan to play a flat back 4,

Joe can play left back left midfield centre midfield, left wing back  there a number of positions he can fill

As I said boys, just what I've been told by a couple of Fulham ST holders I know. I won't pretend to know their squad in depth but both fans I have spoken to were gagging for a LB to be signed yesterday and both are certain Bryan will start this weekend and will be playing very regularly thereafter.

[Monkeh]

1 minute ago, ExiledAjax said:

 

As I said boys, just what I've been told by a couple of Fulham ST holders I know. I won't pretend to know their squad in depth but both fans I have spoken to were gagging for a LB to be signed yesterday and both are certain Bryan will start this weekend and will be playing very regularly thereafter.

he will come on big time as a player now he's playing with and against better players,

I hope we got a sell on clause 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, ExiledAjax said:

 

As I said boys, just what I've been told by a couple of Fulham ST holders I know. I won't pretend to know their squad in depth but both fans I have spoken to were gagging for a LB to be signed yesterday and both are certain Bryan will start this weekend and will be playing very regularly thereafter.

I googled it so...

Yeah they would know better, but I still think likely Bryan will start in the more winnable games, more at home where they are likely to be on the attack and perhaps not in the harder games v good sides. That may change over time but it's a squad game.

[Sturny]

3 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Is he, by whom? DaSilva is already at a Premier League club. A very big Premier League Club. He also plays for England under 20s and has played through all the age groups from 16s. Aston Villa are a Championship club, like us. Fulham are a club new to the Premier League and have to take a punt on players that aren't proven at the level they're going to play at next season. They've gone for Bryan based on experience I'd say, not necessarily potential or talent. They know what they're going to get with JB. We don't with DaSilva, but it is perfectly possible we get something better as we did with Tammy versus Kodjia, for example...an example you highlighted !

Did you even read what I wrote? I just listed by whom, Fulham & Vila. You are missing my point I didn't say DaSilva was a bad player I said Bryan is better due to his experience and proven ability (Which would be ridiculous for you to deny). Bryan shinned many times in the champ. Where as so far DaSilva has only played in league one and I think he will be good but not Joe Bryan good. We fought seriously hard to get Tammy and they didn't want to let him go he was that good. 

 

Do you seriously think if we lined up every team in the Championship and asked them to select Bryan or DaSilva for one season they'd choose DaSilva? 

[Monkeh]

1 minute ago, Sturny said:

Did you even read what I wrote? I just listed by whom, Fulham & Vila. You are missing my point I didn't say DaSilva was a bad player I said Bryan is better due to his experience and proven ability (Which would be ridiculous for you to deny). Bryan shinned many times in the champ. Where as so far DaSilva has only played in league one and I think he will be good but not Joe Bryan good. We fought seriously hard to get Tammy and they didn't want to let him go he was that good. 

 

Do you seriously think if we lined up every team in the Championship and asked them to select Bryan or DaSilva for one season they'd choose DaSilva? 

most would play both

Bryan at Left Midfield his strongest position Dasliva at left back

[ExiledAjax]

1 minute ago, Monkeh said:

he will come on big time as a player now he's playing with and against better players,

I hope we got a sell on clause 

Agree

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I googled it so...

Yeah they would know better, but I still think likely Bryan will start in the more winnable games, more at home where they are likely to be on the attack and perhaps not in the harder games v good sides. That may change over time but it's a squad game.

I suspect (again, info from discussions with said ST holders) that they'll be playing Bryan at LB behind Sessegnon in a kind of 4-3-3 formation. Front three of Sess, Mitro and possibly Schurrle or this new Vietto guy. Then they'll have Seri, Cairney and another in the middle. Bryan will be allowed to roam forward if he wants but will primarily be a defender.

Personally I will be sorely tempted to pop over Putney Bridge and have a gander if they start the season well.

[Sturny]

1 minute ago, Monkeh said:

most would play both

Bryan at Left Midfield his strongest position Dasliva at left back

Nice skip around the question there Monkeh 

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Agree

I suspect (again, info from discussions with said ST holders) that they'll be playing Bryan at LB behind Sessegnon in a kind of 4-3-3 formation. Front three of Sess, Mitro and possibly Schurrle or this new Vietto guy. Then they'll have Seri, Cairney and another in the middle. Bryan will be allowed to roam forward if he wants but will primarily be a defender.

Personally I will be sorely tempted to pop over Putney Bridge and have a gander if they start the season well.

Time will tell- they will definitely play 4-3-3 but I think they will rotate them, at least to begin with.

[Kid in the Riot]

5 minutes ago, Sturny said:

Did you even read what I wrote? I just listed by whom, Fulham & Vila. You are missing my point I didn't say DaSilva was a bad player I said Bryan is better due to his experience and proven ability (Which would be ridiculous for you to deny). Bryan shinned many times in the champ. Where as so far DaSilva has only played in league one and I think he will be good but not Joe Bryan good. We fought seriously hard to get Tammy and they didn't want to let him go he was that good. 

Do you seriously think if we lined up every team in the Championship and asked them to select Bryan or DaSilva for one season they'd choose DaSilva? 

I'm not missing your point and I have read what your wrote, no need to be patronising. 

All I'm pointing out is that as of now, you don't know that Bryan is a better player than DaSilva. That is not ridiculous, as we have yet to see DaSilva in a City shirt. Quite simple. You can say you think it's very, very likely he's a better player based on x, y and z but you don't know for a fact and the hope is we have brought in a player who can match JB at left-back (because he did have his faults in that position) or even better him.

[Sturny]

4 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I'm not missing your point and I have read what your wrote, no need to be patronising. 

All I'm pointing out is that as of now, you don't know that Bryan is a better player than DaSilva. That is not ridiculous, as we have yet to see DaSilva in a City shirt. Quite simple. You can say you think it's very, very likely he's a better player based on x, y and z but you don't know for a fact and the hope is we have brought in a player who can match JB at left-back (because he did have his faults in that position) or even better him.

Fair enough sorry for being patronising there. I see your point but we'll have to agree to disagree I think mate, as there's not a lot in it to tell me DaSilva will be better/equal as things stand imo. 

[Monkeh]

1 minute ago, Sturny said:

Fair enough sorry for being patronising there. I see your point but we'll have to agree to disagree I think mate, as there's not a lot in it to tell me DaSilva will be better/equal as things stand imo. 

apart from various football pundits saying he's better then some prem left backs already, Chelseas faith in him by giving him a new contract last year and Englands faith in him by picked picked at every age group up to the under 20's (he's 20 years old) thats more then bryan has done who has never been picked internationally at any age group but he is 4 years his senior has had more experience 

[Sturny]

6 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

apart from various football pundits saying he's better then some prem left backs already, Chelseas faith in him by giving him a new contract last year and Englands faith in him by picked picked at every age group up to the under 20's (he's 20 years old) thats more then bryan has done who has never been picked internationally at any age group but he is 4 years his senior has had more experience 

Yes he's young and has bags of potential but I don't believe that he'll reach a potential with us this season that will equal Joe's current playing ability. Sorry.  

Leko had similar potential and quite alot of good youth experience and look how that turned out. I'm not saying DaSilva is a bad player. 

[Super Scotty Murray]

With the loss of Flint, Bryan, Reid & Magnússon, I do fear as much the loss off the field for the squad as on the field.

From a financial point of view we had little or no choice really, and we clearly don't have the wage structure in place to make a marquee signing.

Webster, DaSilva, Weimann are all decent replacements, but that is not really the point for me.

Bryan and Reid were part of the furniture, Flint loved by all, and Mags a real fan favourite. Makes you realise how fortunate we were to have such great fun last season (barring the last couple of months).

These guys were four of the fan favourites. The only other player that is left for me is Korey in terms of popularity.

We now have a mix of young players with plenty of potential, a few proven to be reasonable champ players, and a couple of lower league players who may or may not make the grade.

I am concerned at the potential lack of atmosphere if we do not get off to a good start, and I do think it is really important for us to get a couple of wins in the bag in the first few games to ease the nerves of the crowd.

[Kid in the Riot]

3 minutes ago, Sturny said:

Yes he's young and has bags of potential but I don't believe that he'll reach a potential with us this season that will equal Joe's current playing ability. Sorry.  

We'll see, I think you could be in for a surprise. To win fans player of the season as a LB in a L1 top 6 finishing club is no mean feet. I think Bryan was a massive disappointment from January onwards as well.

[Sturny]

2 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

We'll see, I think you could be in for a surprise. To win fans player of the season as a LB in a L1 top 6 finishing club is no mean feet. I think Bryan was a massive disappointment from January onwards as well.

Yeah DaSilva is a totally good player. I don't share you optimism that he'll be an improvement from Bryan for us this season tho. 

[Monkeh]

1 minute ago, Sturny said:

Yeah DaSilva is a totally good player. I don't share you optimism that he'll be an improvement from Bryan for us this season tho. 

well if he can perform at more then 6 out 10 for longer then 20 games he will be 

[pnefcok]

Having to sell players happens to almost every club at this level. It's just the more financially able clubs probably have a longer window of possible success with a group of players before they have to be sold and broken up.

I fully expect Pearson to leave next summer should we fail to get promoted, even though he's on a long-term contract. Same with Browne and possibly Robinson too. Eventually it can't be prevented when cash and the opportunity to play at a higher level is presented to them after years of good service. It's replacing them properly which is important.

Part of the problem is that the transfer market has become ridiculous. It's hard to go out and spend the cash you've made through sales because players have just become ridiculously overvalued. For example, we wanted a target man this summer to replace Hugill, but were quoted not a penny less than £2m for Kieffer Moore, who is almost completely unproven at Championship level and has had half a good season at L1 level. It's definitely a sellers market at the moment which is why clubs like Bristol City and Preston have minus net spends. We spent around £2m and got £4m for Cunningham. Spent a £1m on Bodin and Moult in January but received £8m cash for ourselves for Hugill. It's frustrating but it really isn't easy just to go out and invest it all again in this market.

[bristolcitysweden]

As long as you can not match Pl sallarys you need to sell on to show the public you don't stop talent from moving on giving you the chance to sign more players on the up 

[The Coach]

18 hours ago, Robbored said:

Name them.............

Tomlin

Magnússon

Moore

Engvall

O'Dowda

Hegeler

Taylor

Brownhill

O'Neil

Lucic

Paterson

Wright

Ekstrand

Walsh

Pisano

 

Does not even include the loan signings we have made. From that list @Robbored how many made real impact? Ones that you looked at and thought "we would struggle without him in the side". The only one I have highlighted is Brownhill, as he has some good potential.

[BS4 on Tour...]

16 hours ago, Sturny said:

This is getting ridiculous, we might have to agree to disagree because I can see everything is going over your head mate. 

You didn’t answer my question, which alone, throws your logic in the bin. 

Why did Cardiff sign Bobby and not Weimann? As he’s the cheaper and better option you so rave about. 

 

Yep, let’s agree to disagree - and you didn’t answer my question, which alone throws your logic in the bin. 

I asked why you called Bobby ‘a very high goalscorer’ when he has only done it for one season?

[bristolcitysweden]

Määenpää 

[bristolcitysweden]

When half brain dead people got money in their hands  there is a problem for people caring