Mark Ashton On Summer Transfers

[DT The Optimist]

It was a good interview, as always people knock it for the sake of it.  As others have said on other threads ,if you are unhappy take say a sabbatical across the other side of the City and then you might realise how lucky we are at BS3.

He is never going to 'share' conversations with LJ and SL re the season review for example, or certain poorer  transfers,  but if any one thinks back to the SL interview prior to the Sheff Utd hone game at the end of the season SL said publicly that we should not have ended up where we did, considering where we were at Xmas. I am sure that was the involved in the conversations.

MA has revealed they tried to get the 'three' to stay but they were set on moving and could not really stand in the way. It will be nice for once to  watch 'Match of the day' with some added interest to see how BR and JB perform in the premier leagues respectively. 

Seems so many get their knickers in a twist about players moving on.  Happens all the time, we have players taken from us, we take players from other clubs. Look at fun and games some years ago when we 'stole' Alan Walsh from Hartlepool for £17K, more recently Taylor from the gas. 

I would only ask about the Man City 'relationship'  Where are these top loans from the premier going here.  Seems we have links with Chelsea more than Man City. 

 

[bristolcitysweden]

Maybe it is his personality but he don't come across as genuine. More like a politician. 

The last minutes of his speech could be saved for the Bristol Sport christmas dinner

[Major Isewater]

2 hours ago, chinapig said:

Quite so, but I'm afraid people in positions of power tend not to admit to mistakes.

I never admit mistakes , which is probably a mistake.

[chinapig]

6 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

I never admit mistakes , which is probably a mistake.

It is, go on, admit it.

[Jerseybean]

49 minutes ago, DT The Optimist said:

It was a good interview, as always people knock it for the sake of it.  As others have said on other threads ,if you are unhappy take say a sabbatical across the other side of the City and then you might realise how lucky we are at BS3.

He is never going to 'share' conversations with LJ and SL re the season review for example, or certain poorer  transfers,  but if any one thinks back to the SL interview prior to the Sheff Utd hone game at the end of the season SL said publicly that we should not have ended up where we did, considering where we were at Xmas. I am sure that was the involved in the conversations.

MA has revealed they tried to get the 'three' to stay but they were set on moving and could not really stand in the way. It will be nice for once to  watch 'Match of the day' with some added interest to see how BR and JB perform in the premier leagues respectively. 

Seems so many get their knickers in a twist about players moving on.  Happens all the time, we have players taken from us, we take players from other clubs. Look at fun and games some years ago when we 'stole' Alan Walsh from Hartlepool for £17K, more recently Taylor from the gas. 

I would only ask about the Man City 'relationship'  Where are these top loans from the premier going here.  Seems we have links with Chelsea more than Man City. 

 

Excellent post, DT. Was thinking the same thing re the potential Man City loans. 

[Bristol Rob]

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

 

It appears we made a £18.4m loss in 17/18 too....we didn’t have the clout to go and push the boat out.

 

I thought losses were well down, don't suppose you can point me towards the numbers?

(Not doubting you, just interested to understand how with increased stadium revenue and profit on transfers we managed to lose so much)

[Red Army 75]

59 minutes ago, DT The Optimist said:

It was a good interview, as always people knock it for the sake of it.  As others have said on other threads ,if you are unhappy take say a sabbatical across the other side of the City and then you might realise how lucky we are at BS3.

He is never going to 'share' conversations with LJ and SL re the season review for example, or certain poorer  transfers,  but if any one thinks back to the SL interview prior to the Sheff Utd hone game at the end of the season SL said publicly that we should not have ended up where we did, considering where we were at Xmas. I am sure that was the involved in the conversations.

MA has revealed they tried to get the 'three' to stay but they were set on moving and could not really stand in the way. It will be nice for once to  watch 'Match of the day' with some added interest to see how BR and JB perform in the premier leagues respectively. 

Seems so many get their knickers in a twist about players moving on.  Happens all the time, we have players taken from us, we take players from other clubs. Look at fun and games some years ago when we 'stole' Alan Walsh from Hartlepool for £17K, more recently Taylor from the gas. 

I would only ask about the Man City 'relationship'  Where are these top loans from the premier going here.  Seems we have links with Chelsea more than Man City. 

 

Darlington  

[Sydneybcfc]

I always see people criticizing the Diony thing but we took a punt on a player who we had been tracking for several years and maybe had we got him early enough been the next Kodjia, Fammy etc.

They had been tracking him for years but obviously he got a transfer and was locked into a decent sized contract at Saint-Étienne. Out of the blue he was unsettled at the club and we rightfully took a punt on it, some times these things net you a top player for cheap other times you end up with Nicky Hunt. Lightning struck twice and we ended up with Nicky but if anything we should give the club credit for only putting in an option and not a mandatory purchase!

[fatchers]

People on here moan about ,no interviews, then moan about interviews. Some just want to moan because they have their own agendas. How many times have we read some "Fan " on here say, some player he saw(couple of seconds on tv) would be worth a punt. Let's clarify Punt. It means Gamble. With SLs money . If the gamble pays off (rarely) then great (Kodjia) if it did'nt (Diony,Kent ) then you can blame the club (SL for wasting his money,ashton for signing player)  Every manager of every club has tried and failed with some of his Punts. Some far more expensive Punts than others. All have been gambles that someone thought would be worth taking.(with someone else's money) What is worse ? Trying,but failing ? or Not trying at all ( Gas)

[The Original OTIB]

11 hours ago, Olé said:

"I sat down with Lee, the board, and Steve Lansdown, and we talked through a debrief of the season and what had went well, what hadn't gone well, and what we'd learned from the season"

If there weren't at least five Post-It notes on a wall all saying "Lois Diony" I am totally finished with this club.

Diony has scored 5 in pre season friendlies so it seems he's back in their (ASSE) plans. Interesting to see if he starts tonight against Guingamp.

1 minute ago, The Original OTIB said:

Diony has scored 5 in pre season friendlies so it seems he's back in their (ASSE) plans. Interesting to see if he starts tonight against Guingamp.

From their manager:

Are you happily surprised by Loïs Diony, who scored 5 goals during friendly matches?

Surprised? No. I was the first to believe it. A player must feel that he has the confidence of both the team and the coach. Loïs works hard, he knows that he has had a bad season but that happens in a career. He has the chance to write a new story. He just finished a great period of preparation, his buddies are completely behind him. Wahbi (Khazri) attracts attention so that will leave him a bit quiet. I sincerely think that if his confidence gets boosted, he could happily surprise us this season.

[JasonM88]

7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Despite the awful loans of Diony and Kent (Walsh is ours and was bought for his potential, albeit to challenge too...but he has to oust Smith and Pack....and Brownhill first), if you listen to MA, there was a big challenge in January to keep hold of Flint and Bryan.

Maybe we should have let them go and tried to replace them?  Can you imagine the fans then?

Recruitment ain’t a simple job....just ask Aston Villa!

Most people on here thought the two loans were good at the time....they are only critical in hindsight.  I do accept that they still wanted a big player in, and we didn’t get one....and that may be a key reason why we couldn’t kick on.  However Mitrovic or Grabban would never have come here over Fulham or Villa.  Jerome didn’t do very well at Derby and neither did Madine at Cardiff.

It appears we made a £18.4m loss in 17/18 too....we didn’t have the clout to go and push the boat out.

We’ve tried to address this during the summer....but time will tell.  Personally I think we are a mid-table side based in our current squad.  Up to LJ and staff to make the sum of the parts stronger than the individuals.

What? Where’s this? That will potentially land us in a whole heap of trouble 

[Davefevs]

8 hours ago, Robbored said:

Two wanted to progress their careers and both got moves to the PL but it would appear Flint wanted to move for the financial benefit.

Cant blame any of them for wanting that.

....or a better chance of getting to the Prem via a Champ club.  Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure money was a motivator, but would he have gone to (say) Ipswich for the same wages?  Nope....so not all about the money....just partly.  And I don’t blame him, into the game late my usual standards.

[Davefevs]

4 hours ago, JasonM88 said:

What? Where’s this? That will potentially land us in a whole heap of trouble 

SL has converted that amount into equity in two lumps, the final one this week.  Read up Kieran Maguire - the price of football - on Twitter....he’s a very knowledgeable guys in this area.

Are you a bit shocked?

i forecast around £10-13m loss just because the only player we sold was Tomlin.  It appeared our wage bill (as SL said himself towards the end of last season) is starting to move up towards the better clubs.  This proves it imho.

It won’t land us in any trouble, because:

1. SL covers it
2. for FFP purposes probably £4-5m of it can be excluded, e.g. Academy costs, so we will be around the magic figure of £13m loss.

[BobBobSuperBob]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

SL has converted that amount into equity in two lumps, the final one this week.  Read up Kieran Maguire - the price of football - on Twitter....he’s a very knowledgeable guys in this area.

Are you a bit shocked?

i forecast around £10-13m loss just because the only player we sold was Tomlin.  It appeared our wage bill (as SL said himself towards the end of last season) is starting to move up towards the better clubs.  This proves it imho.

It won’t land us in any trouble, because:

1. SL covers it
2. for FFP purposes probably £4-5m of it can be excluded, e.g. Academy costs, so we will be around the magic figure of £13m loss.

Any idea during your analysing the cost of the Academy per season Dave ?

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Any idea during your analysing the cost of the Academy per season Dave ?

I’m plucking the £4-5m excludable costs (could be £6-7m) from the analysis Kieran did on QPR’s fine, where the Academy was c£2.5m.  @Mr Popodopolous Might have better info in this area.

If the £18.4m is truly 17/18’s loss, I hope people start to wake up to why we have to sell our best players from time to time.  It isn’t Football Manager!

I’d like us to be a bit more adventurous with signings, but I totally get why we don’t / can’t.

I am surprised that people didn’t think Flint, Bryan and Reid were offered contracts to stay.  It’s cheaper to keep a player worth £6m than it is to buy a player for that amount, with Agent fees, the likelihood that you can get a lower wage increase for your own player than someone you’re bringing in.

[JasonM88]

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

SL has converted that amount into equity in two lumps, the final one this week.  Read up Kieran Maguire - the price of football - on Twitter....he’s a very knowledgeable guys in this area.

Are you a bit shocked?

i forecast around £10-13m loss just because the only player we sold was Tomlin.  It appeared our wage bill (as SL said himself towards the end of last season) is starting to move up towards the better clubs.  This proves it imho.

It won’t land us in any trouble, because:

1. SL covers it
2. for FFP purposes probably £4-5m of it can be excluded, e.g. Academy costs, so we will be around the magic figure of £13m loss.

Can’t see it being anywhere near 18. That’s up there with the highest we’ve lost under SL, the season we were relegated. 

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, JasonM88 said:

Can’t see it being anywhere near 18. That’s up there with the highest we’ve lost under SL, the season we were relegated. 

Gavin Marshall (City’s accountant) confirmed Kieran’s assumptions on Twitter.....all in our most successful season since 2007.

 

[BobBobSuperBob]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’m plucking the £4-5m excludable costs (could be £6-7m) from the analysis Kieran did on QPR’s fine, where the Academy was c£2.5m.  @Mr Popodopolous Might have better info in this area.

If the £18.4m is truly 17/18’s loss, I hope people start to wake up to why we have to sell our best players from time to time.  It isn’t Football Manager!

I’d like us to be a bit more adventurous with signings, but I totally get why we don’t / can’t.

I am surprised that people didn’t think Flint, Bryan and Reid were offered contracts to stay.  It’s cheaper to keep a player worth £6m than it is to buy a player for that amount, with Agent fees, the likelihood that you can get a lower wage increase for your own player than someone you’re bringing in.

Ta

And am I right that in theory we could spend as much as we like in our academy without effecting FFP ?

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Ta

And am I right that in theory we could spend as much as we like in our academy without effecting FFP ?

I think so.  But how you’d do that, no idea....don’t think You can sign all players on Academy contracts!!!!

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

I think so.  But how you’d do that, no idea....don’t think You can sign all players on Academy contracts!!!!

Was thinking attracting best coaches in good wages best facilities etc

Not my money of course !

[chinapig]

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’m plucking the £4-5m excludable costs (could be £6-7m) from the analysis Kieran did on QPR’s fine, where the Academy was c£2.5m.  @Mr Popodopolous Might have better info in this area.

If the £18.4m is truly 17/18’s loss, I hope people start to wake up to why we have to sell our best players from time to time.  It isn’t Football Manager!

I’d like us to be a bit more adventurous with signings, but I totally get why we don’t / can’t.

I am surprised that people didn’t think Flint, Bryan and Reid were offered contracts to stay.  It’s cheaper to keep a player worth £6m than it is to buy a player for that amount, with Agent fees, the likelihood that you can get a lower wage increase for your own player than someone you’re bringing in.

I seriously wish the Mods would pin this post and equally excellent explanations from Mr Popodopolous for the benefit of those who just cannot, or will not, get the point about FFP.

It would save an awful lot of repetition. Cue the cries of Lansdown should splash the cash. 

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, chinapig said:

I seriously wish the Mods would pin this post and equally excellent explanations from Mr Popodopolous for the benefit of those who just cannot, or will not, get the point about FFP.

It would save an awful lot of repetition. Cue the cries of Lansdown should splash the cash. 

It’s only £106m that SL had pumped in!!!!!!

Serious question @Monkeh will be able to answer. Is the £44m for the stadium on top, making it £150m?

[petehinton]

Can never read too much into these tbh. He’s hardly going to say what he really thinks on the clubs YouTube channel. 

Second question he’s asked - “are you happy with the signings?”

I mean, literally, what is the point in asking that? Hardly going to say no they aren’t good enough is he 

[Kid in the Riot]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I’m plucking the £4-5m excludable costs (could be £6-7m) from the analysis Kieran did on QPR’s fine, where the Academy was c£2.5m.  @Mr Popodopolous Might have better info in this area.

If the £18.4m is truly 17/18’s loss, I hope people start to wake up to why we have to sell our best players from time to time.  It isn’t Football Manager!

I’d like us to be a bit more adventurous with signings, but I totally get why we don’t / can’t.

I am surprised that people didn’t think Flint, Bryan and Reid were offered contracts to stay.  It’s cheaper to keep a player worth £6m than it is to buy a player for that amount, with Agent fees, the likelihood that you can get a lower wage increase for your own player than someone you’re bringing in.

Revenue is surely going to be up quite considerably though. Those Manchester cup games plus extra membership/season ticket/match day ticket sales/hospitality /merchandise will be worth £millions.

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I’m plucking the £4-5m excludable costs (could be £6-7m) from the analysis Kieran did on QPR’s fine, where the Academy was c£2.5m.  @Mr Popodopolous Might have better info in this area.

If the £18.4m is truly 17/18’s loss, I hope people start to wake up to why we have to sell our best players from time to time.  It isn’t Football Manager!

I’d like us to be a bit more adventurous with signings, but I totally get why we don’t / can’t.

I am surprised that people didn’t think Flint, Bryan and Reid were offered contracts to stay.  It’s cheaper to keep a player worth £6m than it is to buy a player for that amount, with Agent fees, the likelihood that you can get a lower wage increase for your own player than someone you’re bringing in.

Hi Dave.

I had a look at Kieran Maguire and his analysis and he reckoned 16/17 our excludable costs were 6 million.

That means according to his calculations, his contacts, we lost for FFP purposes 400k in 2016/17. 

I'll double check and see if I can find it but 5m for the academy, sounds like it's in that ballpark.

Exactly right, of course we would have tried to keep them, as you say easier to pay more than replace, more cost effective too!

Your 18.4m loss figure- do you think that was after excludable costs or before?

The only thing I noticed with Ashton...as far as I remember he didn't mention anything I don't think about a Flint buyout clause.

If he had 3 years left and no buyout clause (maybe he did but it had commercial confidentiality/NDA) then that would surprise me a little. Hence he probably did but we couldn't mention it.

Edit: Seems my memory was wrong on the Academy- I've looked again and it seems to be £2.5m!

http://priceoffootball.com/bristol-city-unfinished-sympathy/

[Bristol Rob]

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Revenue is surely going to be up quite considerably though. Those Manchester cup games plus extra membership/season ticket/match day ticket sales/hospitality /merchandise will be worth £millions.

Gate receipts were split however.

As a cup game, more profitable than most, but we didn't keep all the coins. Dare say we took a few quid in other areas.

[BobBobSuperBob]

2 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Revenue is surely going to be up quite considerably though. Those Manchester cup games plus extra membership/season ticket/match day ticket sales/hospitality /merchandise will be worth £millions.

I worked out just over a million profit Kid

Ignoring things like programmes and extra  tat from the shop etc etc

[BobBobSuperBob]

42 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Gate receipts were split however.

As a cup game, more profitable than most, but we didn't keep all the coins. Dare say we took a few quid in other areas.

%45 to each side

%10 to EFL

[Guest]

16 hours ago, Bri Stool City said:

As you say doing nothing in the last window would have been better than upsetting the applecart,

But if we did do nothing and we still collapsed (with our injuries and most players exhausted), there would be many more fans asking questions why we did do nothing. Sometimes it just doesn't work out for whatever reasons with certain players and decisions are made wrongly. Shame we will never know the answer.

[Phileas Fogg]

I would’ve liked to have seen Ashton comment on the other departures - notably Djuric and Engvall. 

With those two transfers there’s been a loss of almost £3m in one summer.

I know we’d have got a very polished answer, but I’d still want to hear their take on these deals.