LJ - Has he learnt from last season?

[old_eastender]

We are all hoping LJ has learnt from the mistakes he made in the second half of last season, one of which was continually selecting Pato despite a string of below par performances (albeit while being asked to play left flank).

So it will be very interesting to see what happens today, after pretty much everybody who commented agreed Pato was very disappointing against Forest (despite being played in his preferred No.10 role).

LJ should drop him from starting line-up, but will he?  

[redapple]

I think he’ll give him another chance today (which I hope he takes), but to carry on giving a player opportunities when it’s obviosly not working would be a mistake. 

[KnowleUtd City]

We got bullied at Bolton last season, I would bench Paterson, bring Smith back into the middle, and get Brownhill on the right, for the first 60 mins at least.

However, I think that we will start with the same X1 as last Saturday, with Kelly coming in for Joe.

 

[chinapig]

8 minutes ago, KnowleUtd City said:

We got bullied at Bolton last season, I would bench Paterson, bring Smith back into the middle, and get Brownhill on the right, for the first 60 mins at least.

However, I think that we will start with the same X1 as last Saturday, with Kelly coming in for Joe.

 

I'd certainly go for 4-3-3 in some form.

As to Pato, loyalty to players is admirable up to a point but sometimes you do them a favour by taking them out of the firing line.

[Redrascal2]

Well Patterson was hopeless in the second half of last season.His reward for this was a new contract. He appears to have carried on where he left off last season but I am certain he will get selected today. Because LJ seems unable to learn from mistakes and has an unfortunate habit of repeating them. 

[Bar BS3]

1 minute ago, Redrascal2 said:

Well Patterson was hopeless in the second half of last season.His reward for this was a new contract. He appears to have carried on where he left off last season but I am certain he will get selected today. Because LJ seems unable to learn from mistakes and has an unfortunate habit of repeating them. 

Last season had gone now. LJ has worked with the players all summer and sees them in training every day. 

We are ONE game into the new season. 

How about we see what players/team LJ selects and then debate it, and then review it after the game, as to what was right or wrong with it..?!

[arpaul]

With just one game gone, we can't really judge Johnson on whether he has learned anything from the dip in performances after last seasons Cup run.

That said, last seasons trait of scoring, sitting back, and eventually surrendering points was all too evident again. Forest were no great shakes, but they dominated possession from about 15 minutes in, and City didn't appear to be able to adapt/change tactics to get back onto the front foot.

In my opinion, this was our major failing last season, and if forced into a corner, I would say that it doesn't look as though he's learnt anything. But, it's one game, and it's way too early to judge.

[cidered abroad]

Has he learnt.......? 

Doubtful. 

[Bar BS3]

3 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

Has he learnt.......? 

Doubtful. 

Has he learnt...? Most probably. 

Has he learnt every single lesson there is to learn yet...? Doubtful. 

I think people forget just how young and inexperienced he still is, yet continues (so far) to improve us season on season. 

How many managers see uninterrupted success within their first 5 years of management..? 

Some people have such an agenda, they’d moan if we won every game for the rest of the season, because we dropped 2 points last Saturday..! 

 

[cidered abroad]

Did Lansdown employ apprentices as architects, builders, playing surface specialists and and so on? No. 

So why an apprentice Head Coach for by far the most important position of a football club? 

[Slack Bladder]

I think this season there is a lower expectation of the team, so that might help him

[BobBobSuperBob]

13 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

Has he learnt...? Most probably. 

Has he learnt every single lesson there is to learn yet...? Doubtful. 

I think people forget just how young and inexperienced he still is, yet continues (so far) to improve us season on season. 

How many managers see uninterrupted success within their first 5 years of management..? 

Some people have such an agenda, they’d moan if we won every game for the rest of the season, because we dropped 2 points last Saturday..! 

 

Who’s asking for ‘uninterrupted success’ ?

As for the 5 yr apprenticeship,  the successful managers I recal have not needed 5 years to bed in to management

As for inexperience 

Sean’s Dyche took Watford to 11th in his first season in management and Burnley to to their best ever start to a season in their history ,( and promotion ) in his second

 

[Robbored]

6 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

Did Lansdown employ apprentices as architects, builders, playing surface specialists and and so on? No. 

So why an apprentice Head Coach for by far the most important position of a football club? 

Because architects, builders and pitch specialists are employed by their reputations - not by their potential.

[Mr Popodopolous]

36 minutes ago, chinapig said:

I'd certainly go for 4-3-3 in some form.

As to Pato, loyalty to players is admirable up to a point but sometimes you do them a favour by taking them out of the firing line.

Agreed on both. Out the firing line IMO.

Shape? Back 4, Pack and Smith with O'Dowda and Eliasson on the flanks. Brownhill as the '1' between the midfield and Weiman IMO.

Can flit back and forth bolstering the attack and the midfield as and when required.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

4 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

Did Lansdown employ apprentices as architects, builders, playing surface specialists and and so on? No. 

So why an apprentice Head Coach for by far the most important position of a football club? 

Since 18th March 2013, Lee has managed at 3 clubs and presided over 278 football games as Manager.

He is still a mere 37 but it hardly makes him an apprentice. 

If you're gonna have a pop at Lee then at least just come out and say something more accurate.

[JoeAman08]

If it is the Bolton of last season then Pato may have to be an option. They sat deep and we struggled to break them down. Think with Fam out we should drop a striker. Not sure that will happen though. 

For me, if they are sitting deep, Pato has that ability to unlock it. Not many in the team that can do so. I’d play him left of a 433 today. Brownhill and Walsh with Korey behind to shield defense on counter. Walsh has the ability to unlock a defence and is not timid in a tackle. Brownhill more attacking than Pack. Watkins on the right if fit as he will get into the box. Can’t hope to score with just Weimann in there. Maybe showing our hand too early with such an attacking lineup though. This is more of a game where we will learn more about our quality imo. 

[BRISTOL86]

23 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

Did Lansdown employ apprentices as architects, builders, playing surface specialists and and so on? No. 

So why an apprentice Head Coach for by far the most important position of a football club? 

Yet fans are clamouring for the likes of Kelly and Pring to go straight into the first team. Funny old game!

Also Johnson has managed nearly 300 games in English football now. There may have been an argument to describe him as a rookie/apprentice back when he was appointed but he’s now a quite experienced manager. This is his sixth season as a manager. 

[Robbored]

39 minutes ago, arpaul said:

With just one game gone, we can't really judge Johnson on whether he has learned anything from the dip in performances after last seasons Cup run.

That said, last seasons trait of scoring, sitting back, and eventually surrendering points was all too evident again. Forest were no great shakes, but they dominated possession from about 15 minutes in, and City didn't appear to be able to adapt/change tactics to get back onto the front foot.

In my opinion, this was our major failing last season, and if forced into a corner, I would say that it doesn't look as though he's learnt anything. But, it's one game, and it's way too early to judge.

The cup run took much more out of the squad both physically and psychologically that fans appreciate and had a significant impact on the dip in form. Add to that the crippling injury list..........and City did pretty well all things considered.

As for scoring and then sitting back - I think you’ve got the wrong Johnson................

However, as you say it’s waaay to early to measure whether LJ has learnt from last season. 

[JoeAman08]

1 minute ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Yet fans are clamouring for the likes of Kelly and Pring to go straight into the first team. Funny old game!

Also Johnson has managed nearly 300 games in English football now. There may have been an argument to describe him as a rookie/apprentice back when he was appointed but he’s now a quite experienced manager. This is his sixth season as a manager. 

Yep he is no apprentice but we need to hold him a bit more accountable now. He has options to change games now and he has seen many scenarios. Just hope he doesn’t have an awful run again this season. Don’t think he’d be forgiven again. LJ has a lot to prove this season imo and if he answers them there will be bigger ones the following season. 

[BRISTOL86]

2 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Yep he is no apprentice but we need to hold him a bit more accountable now. He has options to change games now and he has seen many scenarios. Just hope he doesn’t have an awful run again this season. Don’t think he’d be forgiven again. LJ has a lot to prove this season imo and if he answers them there will be bigger ones the following season. 

Definitely. This is the season that he really does need to show he’s learned from past mistakes, now that he’s no longer the young, inexperienced manager he was. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Nagging doubt I have with him.

Can he handle bigger name (by our standards anyway) players so well?

Was thinking about it the other day and early on in their careers here, people on here were quite impressed to name a few with: Magnússon, O'Neil, Hegeler, Djuric and Tomlin.

Played in PL, Championship strong performers, internationals some of them. I'll excuse him Tomlin as he clearly had attitude problems, but this isn't a concern for the here and now but if we are somehow in a position in January and we do sign a bigger player...can we trust LJ to manage them well enough to get the best from them, perhaps even improve them?

I'm not saying buying 'names' is the way forward, but there's something there for me. What I'm trying to say I guess is he seems better with players on the up, give or take a few rather than already there or on the way down but with pedigree. I've no doubt most if not all the players I listed stagnated or regressed here.

[havanatopia]

35 minutes ago, Robbored said:

The cup run took much more out of the squad both physically and psychologically that fans appreciate and had a significant impact on the dip in form. Add to that the crippling injury list..........and City did pretty well all things considered.

As for scoring and then sitting back - I think you’ve got the wrong Johnson................

However, as you say it’s waaay to early to measure whether LJ has learnt from last season. 

The one area they completely ballsed it up was bringing those players in during January; an unmitigated disaster and disruption to the team who I felt even resented it and switched off; some reward they must have thought for reaching the semi finals of the League Cup and 2nd in the league only to have to battle even harder to stay in the team and what did they do?... like a lot of people would have; they downed tools in protest. Frankly, I blame not a single player. That episode was managed badly by one or two and we got scant dialogue from the club on it such is their policy for good or for bad.

[Distortia]

What kind of football manager permanently drops a player based purely on one sub-par performance in the first game of the season? I wouldn't start him personally, but to judge whether the manager has "learned from last season" based on this tiny sample size doesn't seem a good idea.

[BobBobSuperBob]

51 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

If it is the Bolton of last season then Pato may have to be an option. They sat deep and we struggled to break them down. Think with Fam out we should drop a striker. Not sure that will happen though. 

For me, if they are sitting deep, Pato has that ability to unlock it. Not many in the team that can do so. I’d play him left of a 433 today. Brownhill and Walsh with Korey behind to shield defense on counter. Walsh has the ability to unlock a defence and is not timid in a tackle. Brownhill more attacking than Pack. Watkins on the right if fit as he will get into the box. Can’t hope to score with just Weimann in there. Maybe showing our hand too early with such an attacking lineup though. This is more of a game where we will learn more about our quality imo. 

Walsh ?

No Pack ?

Blimey

Not on a bit of evidence I’ve seen so far Joe

And he won’t play 4-3-3

[chinapig]

9 minutes ago, Distortia said:

What kind of football manager permanently drops a player based purely on one sub-par performance in the first game of the season? I wouldn't start him personally, but to judge whether the manager has "learned from last season" based on this tiny sample size doesn't seem a good idea.

 I don't think anybody is saying he should never be picked again! Pato has not found his form since his illness so it's not really a sample of one.

[BobBobSuperBob]

36 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Nagging doubt I have with him.

Can he handle bigger name (by our standards anyway) players so well?

Was thinking about it the other day and early on in their careers here, people on here were quite impressed to name a few with: Magnússon, O'Neil, Hegeler, Djuric and Tomlin.

Played in PL, Championship strong performers, internationals some of them. I'll excuse him Tomlin as he clearly had attitude problems, but this isn't a concern for the here and now but if we are somehow in a position in January and we do sign a bigger player...can we trust LJ to manage them well enough to get the best from them, perhaps even improve them?

I'm not saying buying 'names' is the way forward, but there's something there for me. What I'm trying to say I guess is he seems better with players on the up, give or take a few rather than already there or on the way down but with pedigree. I've no doubt most if not all the players I listed stagnated or regressed here.

Personally I think he has some good points / attributes but some glaringly bad ones

Can he improve on some of them - of course, hopefully

Signs of improvement ... not so sure atm

My biggest concern with him are there are some flaws (As we all have in different areas) that are vital , and that he may struggle with

and I fear you may have highlighted possibly his biggest one

 

[arpaul]

53 minutes ago, Robbored said:

The cup run took much more out of the squad both physically and psychologically that fans appreciate and had a significant impact on the dip in form. Add to that the crippling injury list..........and City did pretty well all things considered.

As for scoring and then sitting back - I think you’ve got the wrong Johnson................

However, as you say it’s waaay to early to measure whether LJ has learnt from last season. 

You can't use the injury situation as an excuse.

We we're down to the bare bones before Christmas and performances/results were outstanding. 

As for the wrong Johnson, I can't be arsed to set you off on another Johnson Senior rant. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 minute ago, arpaul said:

You can't use the injury situation as an excuse.

We we're down to the bare bones before Christmas and performances/results were outstanding. 

As for the wrong Johnson, I can't be arsed to set you off on another Johnson Senior rant. 

Ignore he’s on one of his WUM sessions

 

[Langford Red]

Yes he has

I was going to go to the league cup game Plymouth

But not now

He said he will not put top players in for that game

I don't want to watch the reserves lose

[chinapig]

1 minute ago, arpaul said:

You can't use the injury situation as an excuse.

We we're down to the bare bones before Christmas and performances/results were outstanding. 

As for the wrong Johnson, I can't be arsed to set you off on another Johnson Senior rant. 

Maybe but the problem was sustaining it for the rest of the season with a reduced squad.

Not that injuries were the only reason but did not 9 players have operations at one point or another?