Did Brexit shape our new transfer policy?

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

Recently , having spent a small fortune on surveys/legals- the couple selling their property to me pulled out at the final moment - the reason they gave was they were moving to France but were now unclear as to whether they could work there after March next year.

Miles Jacobson, director of Sports Interactive, the company behind the Football Manager video games, was on BBC Radio 4 on Friday talking about the potential impact of Brexit on the Premier League.

At the moment, players from the European Union are allowed to play professional football in England as part of freedom-of-movement rules, while those from outside the EU need work permits.

Mr Jacobson said that if the rules for players from the EU were the same as the current ones for non-EU players, 152 players - about 25% of the total - would "definitely not get work permits".

 

Basically, the rules to allow a non EU player a work permit is based on a % of international performances over the past two years and the lower the ranking- the higher the number- e.g. French player 30% and Egyptian 75% etc. These rules will apply to EU players in the UK unless there's a deal with the EU which is looking less and less likely, then Football clubs with a high proportion of foreign players may be in trouble

A club can apply to the FA Exceptions Panel but that is by no means guaranteed and works on a points system- how long they've been in UK/cost/value to team but that could be a lottery and I doubt very much that many recent Championship or lower league players will qualify.

So- with a very uncertain Brexit deal, did Steve Lansdown decide that it would be daft to recruit any more new faces direct from the Europe? Is this why having spent the last couple of seasons buying foreign players that no one has been recruited from outside the football league?

Steve would never come out and say so because he just doesn't get into the political debate but it does seem likely that this has been, in part,a reason for the change in policy and may well be why BCFC didn't seem that bothered about Djuric leaving and taking a loss. Steve is a very very canny businessman and I have no doubt the future of foreign transfers is not lost on him.

The FA definitely have a problem because they can't allow work permits to any player wishing to play in the UK if , for example, Westons can't allow allow the Polish etc work permits to come and pick their apples.

We have two players who may be at risk in Fammy and Eliasson but there could be rules where a set % of the squad qualify automatically say 10% for example.But then, anyone employing an EU national at their warehouse/building site/surgery etc should be able to do the same which ultimately means freedom of movement and not Brexit.

No one knows what comes next for Brexit but surely any Football club who's paid a lot of money for EU players who aren't qualifying internationals may come unstuck. So in this respect at least, maybe our transfer business was slightly better than it feels and the value of a UK player at our level will rise disproportionately because it's gonna be that much harder to pick up a new Kodjia/Famara.

Then again, we won't end up with an Engvall.

 

 

[Sweeneys Penalties]

I'd hope Brexit had been thought about and debated. It'd be madness to ignore the biggest Political and Social shift in donkeys years. 

[chinapig]

The other Brexit related factor is the fall in the value of the pound, meaning signings from EU countries will be less good value.

[Williams' Penalty]

Surely they will just change the rules to make it easier for EU players to come over? 

We rely hugely on European players in our leagues and I really doubt they will prevent that. Furthermore players are coming into the country guaranteed employment on considerable wages for the period they are in contract, so surely they will easily be granted a work permit? 

To be honest I'm not hugely well acquainted with the UK work psrmit rules and FIFAs non-EU player rules but I'm sure that it is very difficult to have grounds to not grant a player a work permit when they are going to be signed on a deal that proves they will be in work earning big wages and paying into the economy.

Really don't think in a sport with such big money as football that work permits will be allowed to become a huge issue, and this "international performances" rule seems rather stupid, im not sure quite why it is in place- I assume if it becomes a big issue people will lobby to get it changed. 

All in all I don't think brexit will have as big an effect on football (at champiomship and premier league level) as people may think, it's such a big industry with such huge money that I'm sure people won't let work permits get in the way.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

7 minutes ago, Sweeneys Penalties said:

I'd hope Brexit had been thought about and debated. It'd be madness to ignore the biggest Political and Social shift in donkeys years. 

Well- as the government failed to do so- do you think the FA have made plans for a scenario which they, nor any business, can predict?

[Sweeneys Penalties]

2 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Well- as the government failed to do so- do you think the FA have made plans for a scenario which they, nor any business, can predict?

Nope....which is why I wouldnt sign any EU players atm . I'd keep my squad as British as possible til things were clearer

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

2 minutes ago, Williams' Penalty said:

Surely they will just change the rules to make it easier for EU players to come over? 

We rely hugely on European players in our leagues and I really doubt they will prevent that. Furthermore players are coming into the country guaranteed employment on considerable wages for the period they are in contract, so surely they will easily be granted a work permit? 

To be honest I'm not hugely well acquainted with the UK work psrmit rules and FIFAs non-EU player rules but I'm sure that it is very difficult to have grounds to not grant a player a work permit when they are going to be signed on a deal that proves they will be in work earning big wages and paying into the economy.

Really don't think in a sport with such big money as football that work permits will be allowed to become a huge issue, and this "international performances" rule seems rather stupid, im not sure quite why it is in place- I assume if it becomes a big issue people will lobby to get it changed. 

All in all I don't think brexit will have as big an effect on football (at champiomship and premier league level) as people may think, it's such a big industry with such huge money that I'm sure people won't let work permits get in the way.

So a footballer will be granted different rights to a (often harder working) Labourer in the bigger UK property industry? It's just not how it works. 

[The Bard]

One thing should be certain and that is that players already under contract to clubs in the UK should not fall under any new rules.  I suspect the next window will see less EU signings as we will be getting towards the crunch in terms of the UK leaving.  There could be an impact on their transfer values though - eg if an EPL club wanted to sign Famara post-Brexit, would he not be granted a work permit, or as an EU worker who was in the UK pre-Brexit, would he retain his right to work the same as any Frenchman who moved from working for one employer could change jobs?  

 

[cityexile]

11 minutes ago, Williams' Penalty said:

Surely they will just change the rules to make it easier for EU players to come over? 

We rely hugely on European players in our leagues and I really doubt they will prevent that. Furthermore players are coming into the country guaranteed employment on considerable wages for the period they are in contract, so surely they will easily be granted a work permit? 

To be honest I'm not hugely well acquainted with the UK work psrmit rules and FIFAs non-EU player rules but I'm sure that it is very difficult to have grounds to not grant a player a work permit when they are going to be signed on a deal that proves they will be in work earning big wages and paying into the economy.

Really don't think in a sport with such big money as football that work permits will be allowed to become a huge issue, and this "international performances" rule seems rather stupid, im not sure quite why it is in place- I assume if it becomes a big issue people will lobby to get it changed. 

All in all I don't think brexit will have as big an effect on football (at champiomship and premier league level) as people may think, it's such a big industry with such huge money that I'm sure people won't let work permits get in the way.

Not sure, however much it may he wanted, that the system will allow for there to be exceptions in football that are not allowed in other industries.

My current reading of it is that their does seem a desire to ensure those already here can stay, and the most likely outcome is a two year transition period. I think it is equally fair to say it will affect teams at our level much more than the Man Utd’s of this world.

My own guess is that after Kodjia we thought we had found a golden goose, only to discover after some more foreign signings that the gold eggs were actually pretty random and by no means certain.

[Sweeneys Penalties]

5 minutes ago, The Bard said:

One thing should be certain and that is that players already under contract to clubs in the UK should not fall under any new rules.  I suspect the next window will see less EU signings as we will be getting towards the crunch in terms of the UK leaving.  There could be an impact on their transfer values though - eg if an EPL club wanted to sign Famara post-Brexit, would he not be granted a work permit, or as an EU worker who was in the UK pre-Brexit, would he retain his right to work the same as any Frenchman who moved from working for one employer could change jobs?  

 

thats the problem...no one knows. There is no agreement. Plenty of threat and counter threat...but that's it. We are now told that a no deal Brexit gets closer and closer....so what does that mean for everyday folk? As far as I can see there are plenty of predictions and plenty of people with an agenda to spout a load of whatever opinion they wish to regurgitate....but no one actually knows

[Major Isewater]

12 minutes ago, Williams' Penalty said:

Surely they will just change the rules to make it easier for EU players to come over? 

We rely hugely on European players in our leagues and I really doubt they will prevent that. Furthermore players are coming into the country guaranteed employment on considerable wages for the period they are in contract, so surely they will easily be granted a work permit? 

To be honest I'm not hugely well acquainted with the UK work psrmit rules and FIFAs non-EU player rules but I'm sure that it is very difficult to have grounds to not grant a player a work permit when they are going to be signed on a deal that proves they will be in work earning big wages and paying into the economy.

Really don't think in a sport with such big money as football that work permits will be allowed to become a huge issue, and this "international performances" rule seems rather stupid, im not sure quite why it is in place- I assume if it becomes a big issue people will lobby to get it changed. 

All in all I don't think brexit will have as big an effect on football (at champiomship and premier league level) as people may think, it's such a big industry with such huge money that I'm sure people won't let work permits get in the way.

Whilst Premier League clubs are willing to plough eye watering amounts into to other European leagues with all the taxes that their respective governments recover I'm sure they'll find a solution !

[BTRFTG]

8 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Well- as the government failed to do so- do you think the FA have made plans for a scenario which they, nor any business, can predict?

Can the mods move this awful post to the bin it deserves. A bloke who runs a video game company postulates one disaster scenario that suits his purpose  to promote his product but one that has absolutely no basis in fact. What if the EU moved the goalposts and unilaterally changed the position of freedom of movement? Yeah, what if...?

'Government failed to think through.....' if you'd been paying attention the Government's position was to support Remain and that's the recommendation they put to the electorate. The fact the electorate thought otherwise.....  Jeez, its amazing how little those removed from the process understand, yet are happy to spout forth on, as to how 'negotiations' are proceeding. Ever considered the many, deliberate obstacles those whose livelihoods are invested in the busted European Model have introduced? The Government's policy is not to comment but in background briefings, from those directly undertaking policy negotiation, it's amazing to hear what dirty tricks are being introduced such those with Remain tendancies who've been negotiating now think perhaps Brexit is the right way to proceed. I could provide examples of disruptive clauses from  our European partners but you'd think them so petty and trivial as to contrive an episode of Yes Minister or The Thick Of It. All know Europe is slowly but surely breaking up, with the UK at the forefront, but significant others are already on our coat tails as they don't wish to be there at final implosion.

In the meantime keep an eye out for the next, impending Turkish bail-out and the impact that might have on how hard a 'hard Brexit' might be.

[The Bard]

2 minutes ago, Sweeneys Penalties said:

thats the problem...no one knows. There is no agreement. Plenty of threat and counter threat...but that's it. We are now told that a no deal Brexit gets closer and closer....so what does that mean for everyday folk? As far as I can see there are plenty of predictions and plenty of people with an agenda to spout a load of whatever opinion they wish to regurgitate....but no one actually knows

There is a lot of opinion for sure.  However, certain things are a given as the UK is not yet an authoritarian country.  One basic legal principle is that changes in rules / regulations are not retrospective.  When Famara joined City, he was an EU national who had the right to work in the UK under reciprocal arrangement with the other countries of the EU.  Unless we have President Johnson in charge with Tommy Robinson as the Home Secretary, I suspect that Famara will retain his right to work in the UK.  Anything other than that would cause total chaos in our economy. 

Furthermore, when someone has 5 years as an EU Worker then they gain a permanent right of residence.  This will remain for people who started working here pre-Brexit (not the vote the actual date we leave).  The change with EU workers is the balance between those coming to work here and those returning to their homeland.  Less and Less are coming here and this will become more extreme.  Ironically, there is likely to be a tail off in the numbers returning home mainly because they know that Once they leave,  they'll find it much harder to return.  Expect to see a reduction in the numbers of Spanish working in Coffee shops and Restaurants but there will still be large numbers of Poles doing proper jobs...  

[Williams' Penalty]

25 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

So a footballer will be granted different rights to a (often harder working) Labourer in the bigger UK property industry? It's just not how it works. 

This isn't exactly the case. The way I understand it is, the UK accepts any immigrants as long as they can prove employment and have x-amount of money to back themselves up (this is from outside the EU). So, if a footballer can prove they have a steady wage for 2 years then What grounds does the government have to refuse a work permit? Doesn't make sense. 

Add to that the fact that there will likely be a complete overhaul of the immigration system (most calling for a points based style system) this will easily play into the hands of footballers. They will have more than enough skills to qualify for a permit. I really don't think they will be denied a permit if they have work, it just doesn't quite make legislative sense if they were.

[handsofclay]

Am I correct in thinking that post Brexit, dependent upon what has and hasn't been agreed, the FA could bring in a quota system of say 8 players in any starting line up have to be British, whereas obviously they cannot presently under Euro laws impose such a quota as that would be seen as a restriction upon the rights of non-British Euro citizens to seek employment in a Euro zone nation?

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

1 minute ago, BTRFTG said:

Can the mods move this awful post to the bin it deserves. A bloke who runs a video game company postulates one disaster scenario that suits his purpose  to promote his product but one that has absolutely no basis in fact. What if the EU moved the goalposts and unilaterally changed the position of freedom of movement? Yeah, what if...?

'Government failed to think through.....' if you'd been paying attention the Government's position was to support Remain and that's the recommendation they put to the electorate. The fact the electorate thought otherwise.....  Jeez, its amazing how little those removed from the process understand, yet are happy to spout forth on, as to how 'negotiations' are proceeding. Ever considered the many, deliberate obstacles those whose livelihoods are invested in the busted European Model have introduced? The Government's policy is not to comment but in background briefings, from those directly undertaking policy negotiation, it's amazing to hear what dirty tricks are being introduced such those with Remain tendancies who've been negotiating now think perhaps Brexit is the right way to proceed. I could provide examples of disruptive clauses from  our European partners but you'd think them so petty and trivial as to contrive an episode of Yes Minister or The Thick Of It. All know Europe is slowly but surely breaking up, with the UK at the forefront, but significant others are already on our coat tails as they don't wish to be there at final implosion.

In the meantime keep an eye out for the next, impending Turkish bail-out and the impact that might have on how hard a 'hard Brexit' might be.

The OP is about football and the consequences to BCFC and other clubs in the EFL .

You are turning it into a political debate about the rights and wrongs of Brexit.

My point was purely that SL ,imo, has seen the dangers , acted accordingly and changed transfer policy. It's a football discussion that's very relevant to football in the UK.

[pongo88]

It won’t be the responsibility of the Premier League or EFL to sort work permits as the applications are dealt with by the Home Office Border and Immigration Agency. Once the UK leaves the EU, European players will be treated in the same way as those from the rest of the world unless, as part of the current negotiations, EU citizens are granted priority over non EU citizens. Whatever happens I can’t believe that any UK government will worry too much about providing employment for highly paid Premier League footballers. They are hardly essential to the future prosperity of the country 

 

[nebristolred]

He's since clarified his comments and said that 'should' was meant to be 'could'.

[Sweeneys Penalties]

41 minutes ago, The Bard said:

There is a lot of opinion for sure.  However, certain things are a given as the UK is not yet an authoritarian country.  One basic legal principle is that changes in rules / regulations are not retrospective.  When Famara joined City, he was an EU national who had the right to work in the UK under reciprocal arrangement with the other countries of the EU.  Unless we have President Johnson in charge with Tommy Robinson as the Home Secretary, I suspect that Famara will retain his right to work in the UK.  Anything other than that would cause total chaos in our economy. 

Furthermore, when someone has 5 years as an EU Worker then they gain a permanent right of residence.  This will remain for people who started working here pre-Brexit (not the vote the actual date we leave).  The change with EU workers is the balance between those coming to work here and those returning to their homeland.  Less and Less are coming here and this will become more extreme.  Ironically, there is likely to be a tail off in the numbers returning home mainly because they know that Once they leave,  they'll find it much harder to return.  Expect to see a reduction in the numbers of Spanish working in Coffee shops and Restaurants but there will still be large numbers of Poles doing proper jobs...  

I totally understand what you are saying. However I'd like to describe the experience of another fellow Brit (fellow classmate at school) who moved to Bordeaux when he was about 21 years of age (he'd be 55 (and like me staring at 56 this year). Despite being in France for 30 odd years, the Brexit vote certainly panicked his employers. He was asked  to apply for French Citizenship (which he has taken the option of doing) or risking holding on to his British Passport with uncertain consequences.  

 

[JasonM88]

1 hour ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

So a footballer will be granted different rights to a (often harder working) Labourer in the bigger UK property industry? It's just not how it works. 

Yep, that exactly what will happen. Britain will use a points based system, and thus earnings will be accounted for. Anyone earning over a guaranteed 500k a year will likely automatically be allowed in because that alone will get them over the required points required. 

[Sweeneys Penalties]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-45146552

[BTRFTG]

2 hours ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

The OP is about football and the consequences to BCFC and other clubs in the EFL .

You are turning it into a political debate about the rights and wrongs of Brexit.

My point was purely that SL ,imo, has seen the dangers , acted accordingly and changed transfer policy. It's a football discussion that's very relevant to football in the UK.

Not it isn't. It's a thinly disguised political statement aimed wholly at promoting a product and getting free exposure, which clearly has worked. The Government's already made clear it's offer on those already within the UK (essentially no change,) though you'll note it's the EU who are not (yet) reciprocating for UK citizens within their states (there's a surprise that they're unable to agree a common position.)

Let's go one step further and assume there's no deal and we pull up the drawbridge. Would City (British football) really be worse off? We've only been in the EU since 91, the EEC since 73 and we had no problem fielding exciting teams prior to those dates. I shouldn't need to highlight we applied to join the EC in the year of my birth only for de Gaulle to tell us to FRO. Prior to 91 how many overseas players did City have, three late seventies, any in the 60's and other than Derrick, any exports? If it means the likes of any of the 'ones for the future' staying here or the likes of Kelly becoming regulars over the Engvalls, Djurics or Pisanos of this world, bring it on for they sure as hell brought little more than expensive mediocrity. And the impact on BCFC? We'd have a better and more direct link from Academy to First XI and we'd have monies invested here, not lining overseas bank accounts. I'd argue the easy freedom of movement has actually done us no favours and the fact we were able to "panic buy" ( WeeLee's words, not mine,) Engvall sums up why greater restrictions on our transfer policy might not be as catastrophic as made out. Look at a list of City Legends and from where we acquired them. Very few from overseas 

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

4 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Not it isn't. It's a thinly disguised political statement aimed wholly at promoting a product and getting free exposure, which clearly has worked. The Government's already made clear it's offer on those already within the UK (essentially no change,) though you'll note it's the EU who are not (yet) reciprocating for UK citizens within their states (there's a surprise that they're unable to agree a common position.)

Let's go one step further and assume there's no deal and we pull up the drawbridge. Would City (British football) really be worse off? We've only been in the EU since 91, the EEC since 73 and we had no problem fielding exciting teams prior to those dates. I shouldn't need to highlight we applied to join the EC in the year of my birth only for de Gaulle to tell us to FRO. Prior to 91 how many overseas players did City have, three late seventies, any in the 60's and other than Derrick, any exports? If it means the likes of any of the 'ones for the future' staying here, or the likes of Kelly, becoming regulars over the Engvalls, Djurics or Pisanos of this world, bring it on for they sure as hell brought little more than expensive mediocrity. And the impact on BCFC? We'd have a better and more direct link from Academy to First XI and we'd have monies invested here, not lining overseas bank accounts. I'd argue the easy freedom of movement has actually done us no favours and the fact we were able to "panic buy" ( WeeLee's words, not mine,) Engvall sums up why greater restrictions on our transfer policy might not be as catastrophic as made out. Look at a list of City Legends and from where we acquired them. Very few from overseas 

Point noted, Nigel.

[City_pete1]

6 hours ago, chinapig said:

The other Brexit related factor is the fall in the value of the pound, meaning signings from EU countries will be less good value.

Pochettino has been using the "30% increase" due to exchange rates post BREXIT to defend Spurs transfers (or lack of).

[McNasty Filth]

6 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

Can the mods move this awful post to the bin it deserves. A bloke who runs a video game company postulates one disaster scenario that suits his purpose  to promote his product but one that has absolutely no basis in fact. What if the EU moved the goalposts and unilaterally changed the position of freedom of movement? Yeah, what if...?

'Government failed to think through.....' if you'd been paying attention the Government's position was to support Remain and that's the recommendation they put to the electorate. The fact the electorate thought otherwise.....  Jeez, its amazing how little those removed from the process understand, yet are happy to spout forth on, as to how 'negotiations' are proceeding. Ever considered the many, deliberate obstacles those whose livelihoods are invested in the busted European Model have introduced? The Government's policy is not to comment but in background briefings, from those directly undertaking policy negotiation, it's amazing to hear what dirty tricks are being introduced such those with Remain tendancies who've been negotiating now think perhaps Brexit is the right way to proceed. I could provide examples of disruptive clauses from  our European partners but you'd think them so petty and trivial as to contrive an episode of Yes Minister or The Thick Of It. All know Europe is slowly but surely breaking up, with the UK at the forefront, but significant others are already on our coat tails as they don't wish to be there at final implosion.

In the meantime keep an eye out for the next, impending Turkish bail-out and the impact that might have on how hard a 'hard Brexit' might be.

How can the EU bail Turkey out if it’s not even part of Europe?

[chinapig]

20 minutes ago, City_pete1 said:

Pochettino has been using the "30% increase" due to exchange rates post BREXIT to defend Spurs transfers (or lack of).

Yes, though he was referring to the increase in the cost of the stadium.

Levy is pretty tight with the money at the best of times but they are now going to face the situation Arsenal did when they built the Emirates.

[joe jordans teeth]

13 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Yes, though he was referring to the increase in the cost of the stadium.

Levy is pretty tight with the money at the best of times but they are now going to face the situation Arsenal did when they built the Emirates.

Having worked on the new spurs ground as someone else has on here forget the name I’m afraid the majority are European and don’t work to our standards which is why it’s well behind and will not be ready so levy can’t complain the tight git 

[Lack of Action Man]

I'm not saying that restrictions on European players coming over is entirely a good thing, but certainly if it became harder for teams to sign mediocre players from Europe because they are cheaper than the British alternative I wouldn't be against it. 

More British players getting playing time can surely only strengthen our national sides (and yes, I realise this isn't what the Premier League want at all). 

[numbeast]

If EU players have to meet the same criteria those from outside do it will put a higher primium than there is now. If this happens we'll need to get used to the bigger clubs cherry picking our best talent from the academy. Imagine if a club like Wolves couldn't have their Portuguese players or clubs with parachute payments. 

We may get to see more academy graduates just not the best ones. 

[reddoh]

I was quite surprised reading this thread

1) any player under contract would have to be paid in full so the clubs would ask the Government(taxpayer) to pay them recompense.

2) football changed the laws so that footballers and owners(who f'd the club up) get repaid before other creditors including the IR.

conclusion 

the government will just lie on their backs waiting for football to rub their tummies.