Bar BS3 Posted August 13, 2018 Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 25 minutes ago, GlastonburyRed said: Let’s not forget that this is a professional game that still, in the year 2018, doesn’t officially have a gay player in its ranks. If that’s not indicative of a culture where there might just be a little bit of an issue viz discrimination then I don’t know what is. Of course, homophobia & racism aren’t to be conflated, but the parallels are there and to simply dismiss a black ex-player who has lived and breathed that culture for decades and say ‘this isn’t racism’ or ‘x black player is at it again’ or ‘it’s such an easy position to fall back to’ might be ignoring the fact that it’s raised again & again because it’s still an issue, in 2018, just as it’s still an issue that no gay player feels comfortable in being open and transparent about who they are. Well, The Sun will be really stuck then, if Raheem Sterling comes out as being gay..! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WessexPest Posted August 13, 2018 Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, RedDave said: Why does he get picked on by the press so much? Anyone who says he doesnt is blinkered. He actually had a good world cup. Final ball wasnt great but his workrate, creating space for others was subtely very clever. Whenever he was subbed England became worse. The Sun in particular seem to detest him By absolutely no stretch of the imagination did he have anything approaching a good World Cup. He was comfortably the biggest disappointment in a team that largely shone, especially considering the season he had domestically. I lost count of the number of times he found himself one on one v the keeper, seemingly destined to score, and every time he failed miserably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted August 13, 2018 Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, WessexPest said: By absolutely no stretch of the imagination did he have anything approaching a good World Cup. He was comfortably the biggest disappointment in a team that largely shone, especially considering the season he had domestically. I lost count of the number of times he found himself one on one v the keeper, seemingly destined to score, and every time he failed miserably. Could it be- and we all enjoyed the WC, and we all praise Southgate, 100%. However he plays with a much better side at Man City and while Southgate is doing good things, he's no Guardiola. That's no slight BTW, name someone who is. I think that it might play a part in the differentials. The sole picture? Certainly not. A part though, most certainly. The miss v Tunisia though- offside flag up or not, that very much sticks out for me. A crap finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WessexPest Posted August 13, 2018 Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Could it be- and we all enjoyed the WC, and we all praise Southgate, 100%. However he plays with a much better side at Man City and while Southgate is doing good things, he's no Guardiola. That's no slight BTW, name someone who is. I think that it might play a part in the differentials. The sole picture? Certainly not. A part though, most certainly. The miss v Tunisia though- offside flag up or not, that very much sticks out for me. A crap finish. Might be a factor, absolutely. However as you rightly point out it was his spectacular inability to get the basics right, which is nigh on inexplicable for a chap of his natural ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted August 13, 2018 Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, WessexPest said: By absolutely no stretch of the imagination did he have anything approaching a good World Cup. He was comfortably the biggest disappointment in a team that largely shone, especially considering the season he had domestically. I lost count of the number of times he found himself one on one v the keeper, seemingly destined to score, and every time he failed miserably. You lost count? Thought it was only gasheads who struggled to count on one hand! If you cant see what he gave to the team and the benefits of him playing then I cannot help you. It is rather nuanced I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted August 13, 2018 Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 When we got to knockouts Kane was rubbish but weird how nobody mentions that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted August 13, 2018 Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, RedDave said: When we got to knockouts Kane was rubbish but weird how nobody mentions that! We were a worse team in every game, when Sterling wasn’t on the pitch, simple. Yes he missed chances, yes he didn’t actually do as much as he’s capable of, but when he wasn’t there doing what he did do, we were generally pretty poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerly known as ivan Posted August 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, RedDave said: When we got to knockouts Kane was rubbish but weird how nobody mentions that! Harry Kane, golden boot winner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WessexPest Posted August 13, 2018 Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, RedDave said: You lost count? Thought it was only gasheads who struggled to count on one hand! If you cant see what he gave to the team and the benefits of him playing then I cannot help you. It is rather nuanced I guess He’s a good player - I’m not disputing that for one second. But he doesn’t own any shooting boots when it comes to representing England. Based on his performances to date he comes across as a slightly better version of Shaun Wright-Phillips and not up to it at the highest level. I do think he’ll come good eventually for England and I really hope he does. But nobody can sit there with a straight face and say he had a good World Cup. He missed gilt-edged chances and dribbled straight into opposing players costing us possession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted August 13, 2018 Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, formerly known as ivan said: Harry Kane, golden boot winner? Read what I wrote again... WHEN WE GOT TO THE KNOCKOUTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted August 13, 2018 Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, WessexPest said: He’s a good player - I’m not disputing that for one second. But he doesn’t own any shooting boots when it comes to representing England. Based on his performances to date he comes across as a slightly better version of Shaun Wright-Phillips and not up to it at the highest level. I do think he’ll come good eventually for England and I really hope he does. But nobody can sit there with a straight face and say he had a good World Cup. He missed gilt-edged chances and dribbled straight into opposing players costing us possession. Quite a few seem to agree he had a good world cup. People see different things in games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedred31 Posted August 13, 2018 Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 I suspect frankly that racism- or at least some form of subconcious discrimination- plays a part in football. Players like Gerrard and Lampard walk into plum jobs without any notable qualifications or coaching experience. Giggs at Wales. Many others like Tim Sherwood and Gary Monk engaged repeatedly without any real sign of ability. Sol Campbell was not only an outstanding international- one of the very few England players to be picked for a ‘team of the tournament’ (with Ashley Cole in 2004), but he not only did all his coaching badges, he was prepared to start at the bottom. Never really got a sniff. I know what I’d think if I was him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted August 13, 2018 Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 9 minutes ago, Bedred31 said: I suspect frankly that racism- or at least some form of subconcious discrimination- plays a part in football. Players like Gerrard and Lampard walk into plum jobs without any notable qualifications or coaching experience. Giggs at Wales. Many others like Tim Sherwood and Gary Monk engaged repeatedly without any real sign of ability. Sol Campbell was not only an outstanding international- one of the very few England players to be picked for a ‘team of the tournament’ (with Ashley Cole in 2004), but he not only did all his coaching badges, he was prepared to start at the bottom. Never really got a sniff. I know what I’d think if I was him. In 2013, Sol Campbell proclaimed in interview that he may have to leave England to persue his managerial ambitions. Between 2013 and taking up the assistant managers position with Trinidad & Tobago, in 2017, what other managerial opportunities were afforded to him, worldwide..? Maybe he’s just expecting a job because of his name..? Maybe he’s just not got the makings of a good manager..? Maybe the entire world is racist..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WessexPest Posted August 14, 2018 Report Share Posted August 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Bedred31 said: I suspect frankly that racism- or at least some form of subconcious discrimination- plays a part in football. Players like Gerrard and Lampard walk into plum jobs without any notable qualifications or coaching experience. Giggs at Wales. Many others like Tim Sherwood and Gary Monk engaged repeatedly without any real sign of ability. Sol Campbell was not only an outstanding international- one of the very few England players to be picked for a ‘team of the tournament’ (with Ashley Cole in 2004), but he not only did all his coaching badges, he was prepared to start at the bottom. Never really got a sniff. I know what I’d think if I was him. I do think there’s something in that - the fact I remember Leroy Rosenior was the manager of the mighty Gloucester City aeons ago tells its own story. But I think this is a rather different kettle of fish - Ian Wright - for whom everything is about race - thinks legitimate criticism of RS’s under-par international performances is about race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North London Red Posted August 14, 2018 Report Share Posted August 14, 2018 1 hour ago, RedDave said: When we got to knockouts Kane was rubbish but weird how nobody mentions that! I thought Kane led the line outstandingly well against Colombia, so I can't agree that he was 'rubbish for the knockouts'. He helped to lift the pressure off our defence for the 20 minutes or so when we looked like we were on the ropes, and his general hold up play was decent for the whole game. Without his performance in that game we may not have got through to any further knockout games. The Sweden and Croatia games - admittedly not his best but he didn't look 100% fit to me. Wouldn't surprise me if he picked up a knock in the Colombia game and then wasn't 100% for the remaining games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meh Posted August 14, 2018 Report Share Posted August 14, 2018 6 hours ago, RedDave said: When we got to knockouts Kane was rubbish but weird how nobody mentions that! Yeah but he is really ugly and not fair to kick a man who is already so afflicted. Raheem has impish boy looks and a sparkle in his eyes so is fairer game. Blame the tabloids - I don’t make the rules !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carey 6 Posted August 14, 2018 Report Share Posted August 14, 2018 He met his Mrs at the same age Kane met his. Kanes is ‘childhood sweetheart’ Sterlings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChippenhamRed Posted August 14, 2018 Report Share Posted August 14, 2018 Without doubt the race card is played too often and I don’t necessarily think it’s the case here, though there certainly does seem to be some sort of agenda against Sterling. However, one thing I would say is it’s very easy for us as (presumably) predominantly white men to criticise Wright for concluding it’s a race issue. I would imagine his own perspective on racism, as a black man growing up in the 70s and 80s, is rather different to ours, and perhaps it’s understandable why he might think this is also a race issue based on his own experiences. I’m not saying he’s right, but his perspective is very different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerly known as ivan Posted August 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2018 6 hours ago, RedDave said: Read what I wrote again... WHEN WE GOT TO THE KNOCKOUTS I know what you wrote. Still, hard to knock someone that won the golden boot! Something neither Messi or Ronaldo have managed... Plus apart from the Croatia game Kane still played well vs Columbia and Sweden! Still, back on track... I don’t believe for one second any grief Sterling gets is racially motivated and as someone else has already said on here, the more it gets said the less meaningful it becomes. Maybe being so successful so young has just made him an easy target and it’s the presses job to sell stories? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted August 14, 2018 Report Share Posted August 14, 2018 It's impossible to say why, but there is undoubtedly an agenda in some parts of the media (and Ian Wright was talking specifically about the media if you read what he said). Personally I think it's because Sterling's background (child immigrant of a 'yardy' gangster who was paid staggering sums of money very early in his career), but it difficult to argue that race and his immigrant status don't play into that. I don't think race had anything to do with his poor ratings at the world cup, that's primarily because the average football fan doesn't understand the game very well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted August 14, 2018 Report Share Posted August 14, 2018 1 hour ago, ChippenhamRed said: Without doubt the race card is played too often and I don’t necessarily think it’s the case here, though there certainly does seem to be some sort of agenda against Sterling. However, one thing I would say is it’s very easy for us as (presumably) predominantly white men to criticise Wright for concluding it’s a race issue. I would imagine his own perspective on racism, as a black man growing up in the 70s and 80s, is rather different to ours, and perhaps it’s understandable why he might think this is also a race issue based on his own experiences. I’m not saying he’s right, but his perspective is very different. I was going to make this point too. I see Sterling as a ‘player’ whilst Wright sees him as a ‘black player’. I was just thinking if I had to describe Sterling I would comment on his playing style before I mentioned his colour, even his height and build would be said before skin colour. I’m guessing Wright would start with ‘He’s Black...?’. But I guess I can only speak from a white persons perspective. As far as wat Sterling has done to upset the press, probably something like snubbing them for an interview way back in the past and they haven’t forgotten. Something totally stupid like that I expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted August 14, 2018 Report Share Posted August 14, 2018 8 hours ago, Bar BS3 said: In 2013, Sol Campbell proclaimed in interview that he may have to leave England to persue his managerial ambitions. Between 2013 and taking up the assistant managers position with Trinidad & Tobago, in 2017, what other managerial opportunities were afforded to him, worldwide..? Maybe he’s just expecting a job because of his name..? Maybe he’s just not got the makings of a good manager..? Maybe the entire world is racist..? Hard one, isn't it? No doubt Lampard is intelligent and was intelligent and tactically too.to get Derby as first job is quite unusual IMO. Gerrard to Rangers similar but not so much as the SPL a lot weaker these days. Whereas Ince began at Macclesfield then to MK Dons...then upper midtable PL Blackburn Don't especially rate Ince as a manager but that's quite a contrast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 14, 2018 Report Share Posted August 14, 2018 Allegations of racial prejudice are so serious that they should not be made without a very sound basis for them. No-one can deny that Sterling does get a bad press, but to leap to the conclusion that has anything to do with skin colour is unfounded and only speculation, and it is wrong for IW to brandish that at the journalists in question. I don't have a problem with him calling out the press for ganging up on him, I have a problem with the conclusion that it has to do with his skin colour so generally, especially as Sterling is an isolated example amongst other peers who are not all blonde, blue-eyed and white. Sterling was a young man, paid vast sums of money and at times has come across in ways that do not cover him in glory. Wasn't there a time when he once posted on social media a birthday message for a daughter, only to be called out by his child's mother as having the date wrong? Who knows what Sterling was like or is like behind closed doors and who he may have offended. There is to me one truth, the English press love to create a scandal and to create a scapegoat to sell papers. It also seems that their target this summer was Raheem Sterling... that he was picked because of the colour of his skin solely is the most serious of accusations and I think better evidence is needed before it is appropriate for such comments and accusations to be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devoncider Posted August 14, 2018 Report Share Posted August 14, 2018 11 hours ago, 054123 said: It’s disgusting that Ian Wright is paid to spout his drivel. He says absolutely nothing of any value or use, ever. An embarrassment. but but but, we all wet ourselves with excitement when he said DaSilva was better than any PL left back... Can't have it both ways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devoncider Posted August 14, 2018 Report Share Posted August 14, 2018 2 hours ago, Carey 6 said: He met his Mrs at the same age Kane met his. Kanes is ‘childhood sweetheart’ Sterlings? No more reacts for me today - but 'thank you'. The treatment Raheem gets is nothing short of disgusting. But what do we expect from the RW media - Murdoch, Dacre et al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted August 14, 2018 Report Share Posted August 14, 2018 Clearly there is unfavourable media bias directed at Sterling for an unknown reason but unless the same is directed at all other black players, doesn’t that almost preclude racism as being the underlying reason? Or is it selective racism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted August 14, 2018 Report Share Posted August 14, 2018 35 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Hard one, isn't it? No doubt Lampard is intelligent and was intelligent and tactically too.to get Derby as first job is quite unusual IMO. Gerrard to Rangers similar but not so much as the SPL a lot weaker these days. Whereas Ince began at Macclesfield then to MK Dons...then upper midtable PL Blackburn Don't especially rate Ince as a manager but that's quite a contrast. Thing with Ince is he'd only just completed coaching badges when he joined Macclesfield, he went straight to first team football where he's likely to start lower, both Lampard and Gerrard spent time at the higher end of academy football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted August 14, 2018 Report Share Posted August 14, 2018 I’m not sure it’s direct racism More Jealousy based on questionable racist stereotyping I’d suggest, both amongst newspaper journalists and those that suck the drivel up Young black lad receiving a massive wage ..... Tut Tut How can that be When I’ve heard Sterling and things I’ve read about him - I quite like him personally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devoncider Posted August 14, 2018 Report Share Posted August 14, 2018 Just now, BobBobSuperBob said: I’m not sure it’s direct racism More Jealousy I’d suggest, both amongst newspaper journalists and those that suck the drivel up Young black lad receiving a massive wage ..... Tut Tut How can that be When I’ve heard Sterling and things I’ve read about him - I quite like him personally His piece on the players tribune was very good. Same as Lukaku's. https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/videos/raheem-sterling-what-england-means-to-me This is a video, cant seem to find the written article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted August 14, 2018 Report Share Posted August 14, 2018 Last time I looked, Pele was regarded by many as the best footballer of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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