Johnson - No new striker incoming (Merged)

[Coppello]

This is really disappointing. I've posted this before but the whole point in sustainable/organic growth is to reinvestment the funds made from transfers back into the playing squad. At the moment, I believe we are sitting on a £16m surplus. The Championship this year is probably the toughest I can remember and, at the moment, I really don't think we're competitive. 

Why does it feel like we're always going through a transition phase? Last season, it was a case of many of Johnson's signing gelling, as well as some younger players coming of age. This season, we've sold the core of our team (which admittedly was unavoidable) and have now entered a phase with a new squad of players. Next season, we'll sell any success stories and replace them with lower league hopefuls, or our Championship rivals squad players. We should really be pushing on this season; utilising some of the reputation and respect gained from the cup run and top half finish. If we finish poorly this season, we will once again become one of the undesirable teams in this division.  

[BlueDredd]

No faith in that Deidhiou feller you've got?

[Monkeh]

2 minutes ago, BlueDredd said:

No faith in that Deidhiou feller you've got?

he's still got 3 games to run on his ban

[Ivorguy]

2 minutes ago, Williams' Penalty said:

Thank you for this, really made me laugh. Typical OTIB. Even people who hate Johnson have to admit, he is good infront of camera and gives good interviews.

The media constantly give him opportunities to appear on events that other managers would not have, purely because he comes across so well.

He isn't smiling because he has some psycological insecurity, it's just a style of communication, and usually comes when he is explaining a certain point. It's a technique that is advocated in the famous book "How to win friends and manipulate people" that many politicians and public figures have used to help them with securing a good public backing. (I'm not saying Lee has read this book, but just saying it may be a natural thing to him/is not a sign of weakness but a style that IMO works well.)

Personally I think his post Plymouth interview is a classic of the "him being bang on the money genre."

He said someting along the lines of: we have a new team, have lost 3-4 key players and need to hit the groud running. These first 3 games have shown our strengths and weaknesses and we need to work to amplify the strengths and minimise the weaknesses. What's wrong with that? 

Also as an aside, I've only seen one game live this season so far, but I noted that Wiemann was very vocal, but maybe that was just me. Seemed to have plenty of leadership qualities. 

You are welcome to your opinion about the post match interviews.  However my reference was not to smiling but to grinning inanely, quite a different matter altogether.  He looks and sounds very insecure to me, and a repetition of last season when we went on the worst run in our history.  We now need to win away so as not to break another dismal record of the number of away matches without a win. 

Iwould like to see LJsucceed here, but he definitely has to learn from previous mistakes and previous seasons - and quickly.

[DaveF]

6 hours ago, Moor2Sea said:

LJs developed a team of ‘mini me’s’. Little height, power or physical presence. 

 

 

That's simply not true though is it?

[Fuber]

No CM?

...Really?

[RedRock]

16 minutes ago, DaveF said:

That's simply not true though is it?

Well I’ll start you with Pato, Brownhill, Smith, O’Dowda, Walsh as our  midfield ‘drivers’. Give you that Kent’s  gone.... and not forgetting Joe Morrell waiting in the wings.

[Bristol Oil Services]

Everyone appears to be taking the "lack of leaders" comment from last season as gospel truth, rather than with a pinch of salt. 

In all the many words and comments and explanations we are given when the team perform poorly (under any manager, not only the current one), it is impossible to know for certain what is real and true, and what is false and self-serving deflection.

Remember when we were encouraged to believe that Johnson and Tomlin had not fallen out - only for Tomlin to be sidelined and then out the door at the first opportunity. 

I think there is an irony in a manager (this is what LJ is, a manager of a group of men), and therefore, a leader, bemoaning a dirth of leaders amongst his charges, his subordinates. He might reasonably do so on first taking up the job here, but not two years into the job after having had the three transfer windows he said would need to get us "where we want to be." 

[DaveF]

8 minutes ago, Moor2Sea said:

Well I’ll start you with Pato, Brownhill, Smith, O’Dowda, Walsh as our  midfield ‘drivers’. Give you that Kent’s gone.

What about players like Diedhiou, Baker, Adelakun, Webster, Maenppa, Weimann, Eisa and Watkins who are all 6ft or taller? All signed by Johnson... Or Pack who plays every week and is 6ft 2?

[Davefevs]

Good thread.

4 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

I share some of the worries about Taylor and wasn't at the match last night, but he has shown in the past that his touch can be sublime, as when setting up Brownhill against Brighton and Smith against Man Utd.   However, he certainly doesn't seem to be showing that he can hack it at this level at the moment, and he is running out of time to show that he can be a Championship player. 

DT - I would expect must professional footballers to be capable of producing moments like that....the problem is the regularity of these moments.  They are too few and far between for MT.  

4 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Well Paterson scored on Saturday and has shown that he knows where the net is.  I know that there have been doubts abotu his contributions in the first two matches, but he has shown that he can produce a goal out of nothing.

I really am hoping it kickstarts his season.  He’s a confidence player no doubt...hence his inconsistency.

3 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Interesting post that mate

I posted similar re both football managers of mine in the past, and also work bosses too.

2 hours ago, Monkeh said:

To say its because he's insecure is frankly moronic and people spouting it are stupid,

I think there is something in it personally Monkeh.  The Small man syndrome, the son of the boss, the non-glorious playing career for an ambitious young manager.  All things that could make him insecure.

Thats not to say he us purposely making the squad younger.  Age isn’t necessarily the attribute.  There are plenty of experienced players happy to tow the managers line, not challenge the status quo, etc.  Some managers like having these types of character around, ‘yes men’ if you like.

[Londoner]

It's ok we've got Matty Taylor 

[eardun]

3 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Is there any evidence of this being the case at BCFC or is it a complete guess?

Personally I can’t see that any of the outgoing players bar Flint might be any more ‘assertive’ shall we say than those brought in? For example Weimann considerably more experienced at bigger clubs than us than Reid. 

I can’t see any real evidence to support the notion that the squad has been ‘stripped of character’. We showed plenty of character for the good half of last season, and then none of it for the second half with no loss of personnel. 

Seems like a conversation that is only happening as a knee jerk reaction to 2/3 games. 

Agree. I would say we showed ‘character’ as recently as last Saturday to come back from two goals down away from home. 

As for Taylor, he has made positive contributions for us in the past (especially the season before last). He had an injury in pre-season so I’m not overly surprised if he is not fully up to speed yet (one of the reasons he will have been played yesterday).

I hope there isn’t a melt down on Saturday if Boro win, especially if Flint scores! With their budget, quite frankly they should be favourites. On the other hand, Weimann and Paterson might just give Flint the run around on the deck! 

[BRISTOL86]

3 minutes ago, eardun said:

Agree. I would say we showed ‘character’ as recently as last Saturday to come back from two goals down away from home. 

As for Taylor, he has made positive contributions for us in the past (especially the season before last). He had an injury in pre-season so I’m not overly surprised if he is not fully up to speed yet (one of the reasons he will have been played yesterday).

I hope there isn’t a melt down on Saturday if Boro win, especially if Flint scores! With their budget, quite frankly they should be favourites. On the other hand, Weimann and Paterson might just give Flint the run around on the deck! 

Is this your first day?  

There will be a definite meltdown even though they are a considerably stronger and bigger budget team. 

[Merrick's Marvels]

1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

I hope his football ideals drive him as a person.

I favoured Flint and another better possession. In opposition to that thinking a team proved last season promotion can be achieved with relatively small centre backs, very small v Flint.

People are far too dogmatic about size and power v technique. 

Yes, I would favour Flint and a.n.other too but there we are. And, yes, Fulham is the counter argument, I'm sure Johnson would point to them and perhaps Huddersfield too. My response to that would be twofold:

1. How may teams get promoted playing the Fulahm way compared to ones that are rather more pragmatic (Wolves for example had players who could mix it if required). My instinct tells me it's the latter.

2. Fulham is not a good example to use, imo, for the simple reason that they had the players to pull it off - we don't. Fulham had Fredericks, Sessegnon, Cairney, MacDonald, Piazon, Mitrovic, Targett - all of whom are better than their equivalents in the City team. Johnson wants to play a certain way for 46 Championship games without having the tools to do so (he has added depth to the squad but the quality still isn't there, imo, for the way he wants to play). Naive, imo. As for Huddersfield, may be they've just got a better coach

[RedRock]

17 minutes ago, DaveF said:

What about players like Diedhiou, Baker, Adelakun, Webster, Maenppa, Weimann, Eisa and Watkins who are all 6ft or taller? All signed by Johnson... Or Pack who plays every week and is 6ft 2?

Would you class Baker and - may be too early to say - Webster, Eisa and possibly Adelakun as units who in body and mind will consistently stand up to the fight? Give a real physical presence that provides a team with a real backbone from which one, possibly two,  real talented ‘lightweights’ can play off? Looks like Baker has already developed one of his recurring injuries. 

In my view, if you play a predominantly lightweight team and tippy tappy style of play, individuals need to be a class apart from the average in the division, consistent and robust enough to maintain their standards throughout a season and able to maintain 90 minutes high intensity football. They also need to have a fast brain and attacking mentality. 

Not sure we’ve got that... but let’s hope so. I was rather hoping this season would be based not on hope but confidence we could compete. 

 

[Bristol Oil Services]

13 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Is this your first day?  

There will be a definite meltdown even though they are a considerably stronger and bigger budget team. 

If SL is saying he expects an improvement on last season's 11th, then presumably LJ cannot use your "yes, but...." bigger budget team line there when answering to the owner/board/Chief Op? Presumably, SL is asking his head coach to find ways around this challenge (as he will have seen others do, with even less budget than us). 

It might be, though, that SL is asking too much of his coach.

[Cowshed]

38 minutes ago, 29AR said:

So being assured in possession under pressure and keeping the ball are signs of leadership, toughness and character.. then I guess Pack is a leader, Weimann is a leader, Hunt is a leader, Webster is a leader, Maenpaa is a leader, Walsh is a leader, Smith is a leader, O'Dowda is a leader... I got it, we need less leaders. 

What you've described is technique. Technique makes you look like you have space, time and ability. Our players have an abundance of that, but we don't have leaders in just the same way Joe Bryan was never and has never displayed leadership to enough of an extent to call it an attribute.

Bristol City have not had an abundance of players who can consistently turn their potential into performance, players who have Bryan, Flint and Reid have gone onto bigger clubs, or higher levels. All three players attributes played a significant part in Bristol City's success. Yes Bristol City lack/lacked players of similar calibre. 

What you have describe is technique … Technical ability feeds many players confidence and mental toughness. Skill however is the ability to turn technique into performed action consistently. Last season post January saw displays where players technique was not realised, simple became hard as players did not remain composed in possession. Self control allows players to turn technique into skill. What I am highlighting is emotional control. Toughness … 

Yes. I would highlight Pack. Leaders do not have to beat chests, they are the players who will continue to attempt to carry out a teams collective game plan and philosophy. While others will hide due to anxiety and lack of confidence Marlon Pack will continue to take responsibility. 

Bryan could be brilliant but still carry out simple tasks, Reid worked often relentlessly, while Flint could affect at both ends … Yes that is leadership in differing forms. What I hope to see in the new recruits is the ability to take similar responsibility and be able to significantly affect matches. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

Leaders also develop through the (footballing or personal) respect of teammates even if they don’t see themselves as leaders

One things for sure , in respect of Bryan Flint and Reid , going by players social media messages etc

All were popular (By many at least)

All were respected (By many at least)

Whatever we all think of them I believe their teammates saw them as serious parts of last seasons side

[Cowshed]

27 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Yes, I would favour Flint and a.n.other too but there we are. And, yes, Fulham is the counter argument, I'm sure Johnson would point to them and perhaps Huddersfield too. My response to that would be twofold:

1. How may teams get promoted playing the Fulahm way compared to ones that are rather more pragmatic (Wolves for example had players who could mix it if required). My instinct tells me it's the latter.

2. Fulham is not a good example to use, imo, for the simple reason that they had the players to pull it off - we don't. Fulham had Fredericks, Sessegnon, Cairney, MacDonald, Piazon, Mitrovic, Targett - all of whom are better than their equivalents in the City team. Johnson wants to play a certain way for 46 Championship games without having the tools to do so (he has added depth to the squad but the quality still isn't there, imo, for the way he wants to play). Naive, imo. As for Huddersfield, may be they've just got a better coach

Fulham, Wolves and Cardiff are all examples to use. Teams consistently do change little to gain promotion over a season. Teams are frequently quite rigid in approach.

If the approach is to pursue something more akin to Fulham/Wolves v Cardiff the Finn in goal and Webster are tools to do so. As it is after 180 minutes for myself its far too early to make an unequivocal that won't work as its not clear to myself who will play up top for instance.

I simply hope to see improvement. My idea of improvement actually can be to start with not putting my hands over my eyes as the ball enters E34 from a goal kick.

[BobBobSuperBob]

40 minutes ago, Moor2Sea said:

In my view, if you play a predominantly lightweight team and tippy tappy style of play, individuals need to be a class apart from the average in the division, consistent and robust enough to maintain their standards throughout a season and able to maintain 90 minutes high intensity football. They also need to have a fast brain and attacking mentality. 

 

Johnson wants to play a certain way for 46 Championship games without having the tools to do so (he has added depth to the squad but the quality still isn't there, imo, for the way he wants to play). Naive, imo.

In very general terms

Without going into detail (In simple terms we are trying to play in a Rolls Royce (A la Man City) way without the budget to fully support it)

Geeat post IMHO 

[BRISTOL86]

45 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

If SL is saying he expects an improvement on last season's 11th, then presumably LJ cannot use your "yes, but...." bigger budget team line there when answering to the owner/board/Chief Op? Presumably, SL is asking his head coach to find ways around this challenge (as he will have seen others do, with even less budget than us). 

It might be, though, that SL is asking too much of his coach.

Oh I agree. Unfortunately whether or not SLs expectations are realistic is ultimately LJs problem to solve.

But for me, as fans to expect to go toe to toe with Boro in light of the relative budgets is not right. Of course I hope for a win but 9/10 times you expect the better team to win, and simply put, Boro are the better team. 

Just like we - as fans - would expect to dispatch the likes of Rotherham, Burton, Barnsley....the likes of Villa/Derby/Boro will expect to beat the likes of us and rightly so. There’s a world of difference between the resources involved. 

Do Crystal Palace fans have a meltdown when they lose to Chelsea/Man C etc? 

[cheshire_red]

Get LJ down Specsavers for some bifocals he is so shortsighted

[BRISTOL86]

25 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

In very general terms

Without going into detail (In simple terms we are trying to play in a Rolls Royce (A la Man City) way without the budget to fully support it)

Geeat post IMHO 

A very fair assessment. I guess it ultimately stems from SLs expectations both on style of play and where he expects us to end up. He’s already said he wants an improvement in league position so ultimately if LJ has ‘backed the wrong horse’ in terms of style of play/personnel required to do so, it’ll be him who pays the price. For all we know he may have been critical of our reversion to a more direct approach in the second half of the season and made it very clear he doesn’t want that play style used  

Personally I’d rather see a manager stick to his philosophies and I certainly have no qualms at all about trying to be brave in possssion and play neat, possssion based football. 

But whether we can achieve a top half finish with a bottom half budget remains to be seen....he actually has quite an unenviable task. IMO with the relatively modest resources afforded in the summer he has a nigh on impossible task of competing with substantially bigger clubs. 

[havanatopia]

1 hour ago, Ivorguy said:

I would like to see LJsucceed here, but he definitely has to learn from previous mistakes and previous seasons - and quickly.

He tries too many new things for that always to be possible. Like selling the 3 best players bringing 7 new ones in and hoping for the best it works. I think there is no doubt he tries hard and works hard and as a relative newcomer he needs to but he has managed about 200+ games now so we have to hope he knows exactly what he is doing with the close season changes. 

[cheshire_red]

I was reading something similar on the Derby fans site last night, Lampard wants to play the Chelsea way without the personnel to do it and it showed in the first two League games where they were very lucky to get a win at a shocking (their word) Reading and got absolutely blown away by Leeds.

[BRISTOL86]

2 minutes ago, havanatopia said:

He tries too many new things for that always to be possible. Like selling the 3 best players bringing 7 new ones in and hoping for the best it works. I think there is no doubt he tries hard and works hard and as a relative newcomer he needs to but he has managed about 200+ games now so we have to hope he knows exactly what he is doing with the close season changes. 

It clearly wasn’t Johnson’s wish to sell all three though was it? It’s obvious he wanted Bryan and Reid at least to stay. 

[The Original OTIB]

3 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

A very fair assessment. I guess it ultimately stems from SLs expectations both on style of play and where he expects us to end up. He’s already said he wants an improvement in league position so ultimately if LJ has ‘backed the wrong horse’ in terms of style of play/personnel required to do so, it’ll be him who pays the price. For all we know he may have been critical of our reversion to a more direct approach in the second half of the season and made it very clear he doesn’t want that play style used  

Personally I’d rather see a manager stick to his philosophies and I certainly have no qualms at all about trying to be brave in possssion and play neat, possssion based football. 

But whether we can achieve a top half finish with a bottom half budget remains to be seen....he actually has quite an unenviable task. IMO with the relatively modest resources afforded in the summer he has a nigh on impossible task of competing with substantially bigger clubs. 

All goals conceded thus far = basic defending errors. We have some tall defenders, but Wright apart, we do not have brave defenders. Concentration is a major conscern as well.

[BRISTOL86]

1 minute ago, The Original OTIB said:

All goals conceded thus far = basic defending errors. We have some tall defenders, but Wright apart, we do not have brave defenders. Concentration is a major conscern as well.

I think it’s too early to make firm judgements on player bravery but I agree that we’ve conceded soft goals. As we have ever since promotion, even under SC. Then again so have Boro and pretty much every other team I’ve seen on tv so far tbh. 

We’ve never been a good team defensively at this level bar a short spell last season.

Baker very disappointing as he has all the attributes of a top defender but only seems to show it when he’s in the mood.  

[BobBobSuperBob]

18 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

A very fair assessment. I guess it ultimately stems from SLs expectations both on style of play and where he expects us to end up. He’s already said he wants an improvement in league position so ultimately if LJ has ‘backed the wrong horse’ in terms of style of play/personnel required to do so, it’ll be him who pays the price. For all we know he may have been critical of our reversion to a more direct approach in the second half of the season and made it very clear he doesn’t want that play style used  

Personally I’d rather see a manager stick to his philosophies and I certainly have no qualms at all about trying to be brave in possssion and play neat, possssion based football. 

But whether we can achieve a top half finish with a bottom half budget remains to be seen....he actually has quite an unenviable task. IMO with the relatively modest resources afforded in the summer he has a nigh on impossible task of competing with substantially bigger clubs. 

Do you think SL would have such strong feeling about style of play ?

A nice bonus for sure

For any faults of SL am not convinced he would dictate that 

I think it’s Lees philosophy having been wowed by Man City and I gues one he sold to SL

With excellent coaching and tactics it is possible to over achieve in comparison to budget, even playing this way but can I see us getting promoted this way

Not really (Tho I lose little sleep about promotion)

To achieve it we IMHO would need the moon and stars all to align IMHO -

we’d need to be at a point where we had a good settled side with all parts functioning , no one close to a contract end , the bravery to resist any bids for our players and in a season where a number of the big guns and favourites all messed up

[BRISTOL86]

19 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Do you think SL would have such strong feeling about style of play ?

A nice bonus for sure

For any faults of SL am not convinced he would dictate that 

I think it’s Lees philosophy having been wowed by Man City and I gues one he sold to SL

With excellent coaching and tactics it is possible to over achieve in comparison to budget, even playing this way but can I see us getting promoted this way

Not really (Tho I lose little sleep about promotion)

To achieve it we IMHO would need the moon and stars all to align IMHO -

we’d need to be at a point where we had a good settled side with all parts functioning , no one close to a contract end , the bravery to resist any bids for our players and in a season where a number of the big guns and favourites all messed up

Genuinely I have no idea re SLs involvement in decisions on team style etc. Just a thought that occurred to me that he may have a preference for easy on the eye football. Don’t we all?!  

I do think that’s the style that Johnson wants to implement anyway, regardless of SLs views on anything. 

Providing we aren’t in danger of relegation I’d much rather see us finish (say) 12th playing eye catching, entertaining football than 8th playing dull and uninteresting (yet slightly more effective) football. 

Personally I feel that we simply do not have the resources to be a top six club as yet and that as you say, it would take all the stars aligning (a la Leicester, Huddersfield...) for it to go that well for us, and thus SLs expectations are not exactly oozing realism. It’s all very well saying ‘I want this, this and this’ but unless you put the tools in place it won’t happen. 

Now....if we reach a point in the coming season or two where we’re close to being a top six side....that’s when I’d happily sacrifice form over function and do whatever is necessary to bridge that gap. But the gap is too wide at present IMO for our fundamental philosophy on playing style to have any impact. 

IMO as things stand, we have a mid table budget, and as such we have a mid table squad. Nothing wrong with that at all. But to expect top six performance with mid table resources is going to end in tears (fans and SL)